cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) (05/21/91)
In article <34649@mimsy.umd.edu> gordonh@milton.u.washington.edu (Gordon Hayes) writes: # ...I heard #many years ago that a .22 was an assassins weapon (reference a fiction #novel THE GODFATHER). So, I am wondering, is there a .22 magnum #that would be auto., and easily carried? Many of the ones I've seen, The .22 was indeed (and still is for all I know) the preferred assassination weapon of the Mossad. They used the little Beretta .22 (I don't know if it's the .22 short or the long rifle version). The SOP was for two Mossad assassins to walk up to the victim, verify his identity, then _empty_ the magazines of both their Berettas into him. We are definitely not talking single-shot precision here, folks. Since the whole point of using the Berettas was to make as little noise as possible, going to a .22 magnum would be counterproductive. The book _Vengeance_, written by Something-Jonas contains an interesting description of Mossad assassination training and procedures. (You may or may not believe this book. It's hard to tell fiction from the factoids in these books of spy-and-tell. Anyway, according to the book, the Mossad trainer advised _downloading_ the .22 to make less noise.) -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist. | Peter Cash | (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein) |cash@convex.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
roc@sequent.com (05/22/91)
My apologies if this is off the topic. Other than James Bond movies, does anyone have any real information on suppressed .380 automatics? Assuming subsonic loads, is reasonable suppression possible within reasonable size? Were/are there organizations that used the .380 instead of the .22 as an assassination weapon? I've seen Beretta .22 short autos at gun shows. They are surprisingly small and inexpensive. Suppressors are available for reasonable prices. It'd be an interesting (although completely useless) combination to own. Ron
petert@uunet.UU.NET (Peter Toth) (05/23/91)
In article <34749@mimsy.umd.edu> roc@sequent.com writes:
#
#My apologies if this is off the topic.
#
#Other than James Bond movies, does anyone have any real information
#on suppressed .380 automatics? Assuming subsonic loads, is reasonable
#suppression possible within reasonable size? Were/are there organizations
#that used the .380 instead of the .22 as an assassination weapon?
#
Never heard of .380 ones, but .32s yes, by quite a few European countries.
The 32 was always popular there, and it's quite easy to silence
(easier than the 22LR), having a small powder charge loaded to
a lower pressure. The Mossad does use 32s, the Browning pocket auto,
to be exact, besides the Beretta (in 25ACP) Ron mentions below.
#I've seen Beretta .22 short autos at gun shows. They are surprisingly
#small and inexpensive. Suppressors are available for reasonable prices.
#It'd be an interesting (although completely useless) combination to own.
#
#
# Ron
Well, it'd be good for squirrels and such if one has jumpy neighbours,
especially if one were to put a front sight on the far end of the muffler
to increase the sight-radius.
Peter Tothrsl@uunet.UU.NET (Roy Stuart Levin) (05/25/91)
I've read about .22 LR as an assassins' weapon in mob hits, because they mob usually sets up its victims through friends and acquaintances so the hit doesnt know what's coming and then a .22 fired into the back of the head can do the job and it cannot really be heard outside an apartment or house. That's to say the weapon is of use for assassinations because it is so quiet, rather than its power. I found out that it is true that you really can't hear it too much outside an apartment. In my old drinking days (years ago in college) I used to shoot holes in my wall for sport in my ramshackle apartment down in Florida. The plaster got blown about but the bullets never penetrated the apartment to hurt anybody and nobody ever complained about the noise. Of course Miami was always a pretty noisy place on a Friday or Saturday night. The weapon's report is like the sound of you dropping a metal pot on the floor of your kitchen or something on that order. Now a .22 rimfire magnum, that would be a different story. A lot more power but too noisy for city apartment hits. If you're not worried about noise you might as well step up to at least a .38spcl. For an interesting professional's viewpoint try reading a book called "JOEY: The story of a Mafia hit man" or something like that. It was by a real life killer nicknamed "Joey Muscles" who was ultimately blown away in NYC after he published his little autobiographical book. I happened to see him interviewed (his face in the dark and voice disguised of course) on the old Tom Snyder show on late night TV while he was publicizing his book. It was quite interesting. Joey liked to walk up behind wiseguys and "hit them in the back of the head" with a .38 spcl. at close range. I think he credited himself with over 30 personal hits.