alexb@cs.UMD.EDU (Alex Beylin) (06/06/91)
Up to now my wife and I lived in suburbia. Becouse any confrontation would probably take place in tight quarters, our self defence arcenal consists of a Glock 19 and a Colt .38 Special. Now, we are about to move a bit further out of town (classified suburban/rural by the bank). The house is located on 15 acres. About 60% of property is lightly wooded, with the rest (closest to the house) a horse pasture (we'll have 3-4 horses). What kind of guns am I likely to need? I have two .22LR rifles, but they are only good for small vermin. I would like to have sufficient fire power to deal with a wild animal as bif as a large dog plus any two-legged threat. While the Glock is most accurate, I am just an avarage shot with it and would not want to count on long distance hits when under preasure. I would like to buy an AR-15, but available cash will be short, at least initially, so inexpensive or stagered approaches are prefered. (Surplus?). My very limited knowledge of shotgun capabilities suggests that may be a good alternative, but I have been lead to belive the recoil is quite strong, which would prevent my wife (96lb) from practicing sufficiently to become proficient enough. One of the sides of the property ends in a hill where I intend to build a small shooting range to practice whatever we get. Thank you for all advice and suggestions, -- Alex Alex Beylin, Systems Specialist | +1 313 759-7114 alexb@cfctech.cfc.com | Chrysler Corp. MIS sharkey!cfctech!alexb | Distributed Systems Group
gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) (06/08/91)
In article <35290@mimsy.umd.edu> uunet!cfctech.cfc.com!alexb@cs.UMD.EDU (Alex Beylin) writes:
#Up to now my wife and I lived in suburbia. Becouse any confrontation
#would probably take place in tight quarters, our self defence
#arcenal consists of a Glock 19 and a Colt .38 Special.
#Now, we are about to move a bit further out of town (classified
#suburban/rural by the bank). The house is located on 15 acres.
#About 60% of property is lightly wooded, with the
#rest (closest to the house) a horse pasture (we'll have 3-4 horses).
#What kind of guns am I likely to need? I have two .22LR rifles,
#but they are only good for small vermin. I would like to
#have sufficient fire power to deal with a wild animal as bif as a
#large dog plus any two-legged threat. While the Glock is
#most accurate, I am just an avarage shot with it and would not want to
#count on long distance hits when under preasure.
If you expect to need something more than the Glock for self-defense, you
shouldn't move, let the Army handle the situation. Your .22s are adequate
for pests up to and including dogs. Your handguns should be up to
the job of dealing with any life threatening situations. Getting into
a long range firefight just isn't likely and would certainly have
legal ramifications since you would be far enough away to flee rather
than take another person's life.
#I would like to buy an AR-15, but available cash will be short, at least
#initially, so inexpensive or stagered approaches are prefered. (Surplus?).
#My very limited knowledge of shotgun capabilities suggests that may be
#a good alternative, but I have been lead to belive the recoil is quite
#strong, which would prevent my wife (96lb) from practicing sufficiently
#to become proficient enough.
I shotgun is a fine ranch weapon with sporting uses as well as pest
control, but it is really a short range weapon for defense. I wouldn't
count on it to reliably stop a man sized target beyond 40 yards and
your pistol should be usable to that range. If you really want to
purchase a rifle, I would recommend one that would serve you as a
sporting weapon primarily and as a defensive weapon only peripherally.
A fine choice would be a 30-06 bolt action rifle with scope. You can
use this for hunting, putting down the occasional rampaging Pekinese
at 300 yards, and engaging in long range sniper contests with your
neighbors.
If you really want to be a rock and roll Rambo, get one of the cheap
AK varients. You can spit harder than these things shoot, but they
will make a lot of noise.
#One of the sides of the property ends in a hill where I intend to build
#a small shooting range to practice whatever we get.
This is the most important thing you can do. Practice, practice, practice.
Any weapon is only as good as it's wielder. It's fun too.
Gary
[MODERATOR: Note that the original poster mentioned 15 acres. Not a
lot of elbow room for a .30-'06, hmm? Also, they mentioned recoil from
a shotgun as a consideration. For what its worth, my original response
to them was to consider a surplus .30 carbine -- cheap, light, plentiful
ammo, etc. Maybe not the fight-stopper that a .375 H&H would represent,
but then again it should be adequate for most of the criteria originally
mentioned. If not used for defensive purposes, then some kindly local
could also make up some handloads with nice jacketted hollow points, instead
of hardball, to get better stopping power for hunting. ....]roc@sequent.com (06/11/91)
I agree. The .30 carbine is a good round that does not deserve the derision heaped upon it. It's a relitively low power round (110 grains at about 1500 fps, right?), but very controllable, and accurate enough at 100 yards to regularly hit a man size target. The M1 carbine has about the same recoil and noise level as the AR-15, and is a *lot* cheaper. (Under $200 surplus.) Soft points are available. (Maybe hollow points too, although I've not yet seen any.) The .30 carbine cartridge is a bitch to resize, though. Ron #[MODERATOR: Note that the original poster mentioned 15 acres. Not a #lot of elbow room for a .30-'06, hmm? Also, they mentioned recoil from #a shotgun as a consideration. For what its worth, my original response #to them was to consider a surplus .30 carbine -- cheap, light, plentiful #ammo, etc. Maybe not the fight-stopper that a .375 H&H would represent, #but then again it should be adequate for most of the criteria originally #mentioned. If not used for defensive purposes, then some kindly local #could also make up some handloads with nice jacketted hollow points, instead #of hardball, to get better stopping power for hunting. ....]
spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett) (06/11/91)
In article <35433@mimsy.umd.edu> roc@sequent.com writes:
#
#I agree. The .30 carbine is a good round that does not deserve the
#derision heaped upon it. It's a relitively low power round (110
#grains at about 1500 fps, right?), but very controllable, and accurate
#enough at 100 yards to regularly hit a man size target.
#
#The M1 carbine has about the same recoil and noise level as the AR-15,
#and is a *lot* cheaper. (Under $200 surplus.) Soft points are available.
#(Maybe hollow points too, although I've not yet seen any.) The .30 carbine
#cartridge is a bitch to resize, though.
#
# Ron
#
##[MODERATOR: Note that the original poster mentioned 15 acres. Not a
##lot of elbow room for a .30-'06, hmm? Also, they mentioned recoil from
##a shotgun as a consideration. For what its worth, my original response
##to them was to consider a surplus .30 carbine -- cheap, light, plentiful
##ammo, etc. Maybe not the fight-stopper that a .375 H&H would represent,
##but then again it should be adequate for most of the criteria originally
##mentioned. If not used for defensive purposes, then some kindly local
##could also make up some handloads with nice jacketted hollow points, instead
##of hardball, to get better stopping power for hunting. ....]
======================
The Marlin camp rifle in either 9mm or 45acp might be another alternative.
--Stevecash@convex.com (Peter Cash) (06/12/91)
In article <35433@mimsy.umd.edu> roc@sequent.com writes: # #I agree. The .30 carbine is a good round that does not deserve the #derision heaped upon it. It's a relitively low power round (110 An M1 carbine would certainly be a nice thing to have. But how about one of those Marlin Camp Carbines? They come in 9mm and .45 ACP; the 9mm version will take S&W magazines (that gives you 14 shots; and doesn't S&W make a 20 shot magazine?), and the .45 takes a standard Colt Gov't Model magazine. Anybody know about the reliability of these carbines? How about the relative merits of the .45 vs. the 9mm version? Does anybody make an extended magazine (i.e. > 8 rounds) for the .45 version? -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist. | Peter Cash | (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein) |cash@convex.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
petert@uunet.UU.NET (Peter Toth) (06/12/91)
Alex Beylin outlined the following specs : - medium range (15 acres = 269 yards square = 246 meters square) - low recoil - low price He writes in <35290@mimsy.umd.edu> uunet!cfctech.cfc.com!alexb@cs.UMD.EDU: #Up to now my wife and I lived in suburbia. Becouse any confrontation #would probably take place in tight quarters, our self defence #arcenal consists of a Glock 19 and a Colt .38 Special. #Now, we are about to move a bit further out of town (classified #suburban/rural by the bank). The house is located on 15 acres. #About 60% of property is lightly wooded, with the #rest (closest to the house) a horse pasture (we'll have 3-4 horses). #What kind of guns am I likely to need? I have two .22LR rifles, #but they are only good for small vermin. I would like to #have sufficient fire power to deal with a wild animal as bif as a #large dog plus any two-legged threat. While the Glock is #most accurate, I am just an avarage shot with it and would not want to #count on long distance hits when under preasure. # #I would like to buy an AR-15, but available cash will be short, at least #initially, so inexpensive or stagered approaches are prefered. (Surplus?). #My very limited knowledge of shotgun capabilities suggests that may be #a good alternative, but I have been lead to belive the recoil is quite #strong, which would prevent my wife (96lb) from practicing sufficiently #to become proficient enough. # The range limitation implies shotguns, rifles with varmint (easily disintegrating) bullets, or rifles with pistol bullets. Given that the furthest one can be from the nearest fence line on a rectangular 15 acre lot is ~130 yards (being in the middle of the square), one has to watch for one's neighbours. Even if the lot is long and narrow, there tend to be few compelling reasons to fire a long one. The size and configuration of the neighbouring properties is of interest; i'll assume they are 15 acre single house lots. The low recoil limitation excludes many (if not most) rifle cartridges and many shotgun rounds in most gauges. The price limitation usually ends up expressing itself in accuracy, fit and finish etc, assuming one does not trade on reliability. Given the nature of the beast and the ranges involved, it's not a grave (;^) concern. Shotguns: Shotguns have a dangerous range of ~200 yards with birdshot (#2), ~400 with buckshot (#00), and much further with sabot slugs (anyone know?). Nonetheless, i know of nothing more versatile than a 12 gauge shotgun. Loads effective (i.e. powerful and accurate) past a 100 yards are available and coming down in price. (Federal too loads a sabot slug now, so BRI's monopoly is ove with). The recoil from any shotgun load capable of producing results past 100 yards is between noticeable and remarkable. This is where i'd disqualify shotguns for your purposes. Maverics are the cheapest (Mossberg owned). The Remington 870 is probably the next best price/performance shotgun, together with the Mossberg 500. Rifles (all cartridges): They all go awfully far. The dangerous ranges run from 1 1/2 mile for the 22, through 3-5 miles for the centerfire stuff. That can cover a lot of neighbours. The recoil of the 223 is non-trivial, and is right there with low-end 30-30 loads, 7.62x39 loads, 44 Mag loads, etc. Of the bottleneck cartridges your list is short, and one can easily produce one by taking the muzzle momentum (energy is second best) of a cartridge chosen for cutoff (say 30-30 for an upper limit), and looking for all else below. The lowly 22 is something to recon with well past 75 yards, and certainly fits. It does ricochet though, so a 22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire is better, because it doesn't. Given that you have 22s, i'd stay with them until you get what you want. If you insist, the 22WMR is good well past 100 yards, but good guns for it (Ruger, et al) cost. The 30/9/45/357/44/carbines are a great bet. There is much to be said for having a shoulder arm for the same cartridge as your sidearm. Marlin makes good 9 and 45 semis, 357(?) and 44 levers. Timberwolf is another 357 (who makes it ?). The 30 carbines have the lowest recoil and the best ballistics. If you can get a good one cheap, this is it. The 223 is fine, but make sure of your backstop and use projectiles that disintegrate if a fly looks at them sideways. Stay away from surplus. The 223 fmj penetrates rolled steel better than the 308 armor piercing round. The guns for it are usually not cheap. The 30-30 is nice, but make sure you use light projectiles (< 130 grain) for low recoil. These rounds also tend to be thin jacketed, so they will disintegrate on the tree-trunks rather than glancing off and continuing intact. The 7.62x39 is fine for your purposes. It recoils like the 223 or a tad more, but less than the 30-30. Ammo is widely available, but reread my warning for the 223. The cheapest new gun you can get for you purpose is chambered for it. It's the SKS (Simonov). Cheaper than the AK-s (which take the same round), but without the social stigma, and just as reliable (if not more so). If you absolutely insist on buying a new, inexpensive "15 acre" gun, this is it. Can be had with 10 or 15 round fixed magazines (with hinged floorplate), loadable with stripper clips. Golden key-Futura of Montrose, Co 81401, (PoBox 1446, 1-800-448-7378) supplies 30 round mags that fit the well. The D variant (SKS-D) accepts standard AK magazines. Accuracy is sufficient out to 200 yards for what you want. Good luck Peter Toth
webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods) (06/12/91)
In article <35454@mimsy.umd.edu> spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett) writes: #In article <35433@mimsy.umd.edu> roc@sequent.com writes: ## ##I agree. The .30 carbine is a good round that does not deserve the ##derision heaped upon it. It's a relitively low power round (110 ##grains at about 1500 fps, right?), but very controllable, and accurate # Why not a 20 g. shotgun, (pump, double) ??? Solves hunting & defense problems; does not overshoot 15 acres; can be used by <100 lb woman previously mentioned. A 20 g w/ slug shell has more "POW" than a .44 mag and would be more accurate (outside) than a handgun within 40 yds. Original poster has a Glock for indoors. BDW
cramer@uunet.UU.NET (Clayton Cramer) (06/13/91)
In article <35476@mimsy.umd.edu>, cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:
# An M1 carbine would certainly be a nice thing to have. But how about one of
# those Marlin Camp Carbines? They come in 9mm and .45 ACP; the 9mm version
# will take S&W magazines (that gives you 14 shots; and doesn't S&W make a 20
# shot magazine?), and the .45 takes a standard Colt Gov't Model magazine.
#
# Anybody know about the reliability of these carbines? How about the
# relative merits of the .45 vs. the 9mm version? Does anybody make an
# extended magazine (i.e. > 8 rounds) for the .45 version?
#
# Peter Cash | (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein) |cash@convex.com
I sold a Marlin Camp Carbine 9mm a while back to a co-worker. It seems
to be plenty reliable and accurate, at least out to 150 yards. (It is
probably of limited usefulness beyond that distance because of the
low power of the cartridge).
Marlin 20 round magazines for the 9mm version are still available
from some suppliers, though Marlin doesn't make them anymore, I am
told.
Several suppliers make 11, 15, and even 25 round magazines for the
Colt GM. I bought a stainless steel 15-round magazine a while back,
and I was unable to get it to reliably feed in a Colt GM. I lent it
to a friend with a Marlin Camp Carbine in .45 ACP for testing, and
possible purchase. He still hasn't gotten around to testing it,
six months later (Grrr!), so I can't tell you it that solution works
for the Marlin.
--
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine!
They can have my urine sample when they pry it from my dead, cold fingers.
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to
teenage boys." -- P.J. O'Rourke, _Parliament_of_Whores_rrubert@cisncc.intel.com (06/13/91)
In article <35290@mimsy.umd.edu> uunet!cfctech.cfc.com!alexb@cs.UMD.EDU (Alex Be ylin) writes: #Up to now my wife and I lived in suburbia. Becouse any confrontation #would probably take place in tight quarters, our self defence #arcenal consists of a Glock 19 and a Colt .38 Special. #Now, we are about to move a bit further out of town (classified #suburban/rural by the bank). The house is located on 15 acres. #About 60% of property is lightly wooded, with the #rest (closest to the house) a horse pasture (we'll have 3-4 horses). #What kind of guns am I likely to need? I have two .22LR rifles, #but they are only good for small vermin. I would like to #have sufficient fire power to deal with a wild animal as bif as a #large dog plus any two-legged threat. While the Glock is #most accurate, I am just an avarage shot with it and would not want to #count on long distance hits when under preasure. I would suggest a carbine type rifle. A 30-30 lever action or perhaps even a pistol caliber rifle. I would prefer a Browning 44mag lever action. Pistols are nice indoors but if I am outside I would always do better with a rifle. I have seen the suggestion that a .22LR would be fine for any dog problem. I would be worried about wounding a dog with a .22 resulting in a more dangerous animal that might not die for days. Rod Rubert
moore@tc.fluke.COM (Matt Moore) (06/14/91)
In article <35505@mimsy.umd.edu> snitor!petert@uunet.UU.NET (Peter Toth) writes:
# << much excellent information deleted>>
#The lowly 22 is something to recon with well past 75 yards, and certainly
#fits. It does ricochet though, so a 22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire is
#better, because it doesn't.
Could you explain this statement? It seems strange to me that speeding up
a .22 bullet would reduce its ricochet hazard.
Matt Moore
John Fluke Mfg. Co.
standard disclaimers applydanac@sgi.com (Dana Crom) (06/14/91)
In article <35290@mimsy.umd.edu> uunet!cfctech.cfc.com!alexb@cs.UMD.EDU (Alex Be ylin) writes: #Up to now my wife and I lived in suburbia. Becouse any confrontation #would probably take place in tight quarters, our self defence #arcenal consists of a Glock 19 and a Colt .38 Special. #Now, we are about to move a bit further out of town (classified #suburban/rural by the bank). The house is located on 15 acres. #About 60% of property is lightly wooded, with the #rest (closest to the house) a horse pasture (we'll have 3-4 horses). #What kind of guns am I likely to need? I have two .22LR rifles, #but they are only good for small vermin. I would like to #have sufficient fire power to deal with a wild animal as bif as a #large dog plus any two-legged threat. While the Glock is #most accurate, I am just an avarage shot with it and would not want to #count on long distance hits when under preasure. In article <35557@mimsy.umd.edu> rrubert@cisncc.intel.com writes: # I would suggest a carbine type rifle. A 30-30 lever action or perhaps #even a pistol caliber rifle. I would prefer a Browning 44mag lever action. #Pistols are nice indoors but if I am outside I would always do better #with a rifle. I have seen the suggestion that a .22LR would be fine #for any dog problem. I would be worried about wounding a dog with a .22 #resulting in a more dangerous animal that might not die for days. I grew up in a situation much like you describe, in an area that had a *large* feral dog population. From the time I was about 13-14 till I left for college, I shot an average of 5 or 6 dogs per year for chasing our cattle. (I love dogs, and hated doing it, but it was necessary). My uncle and cousins probably accounted for another 3 or 4 each year. Our standard carry rifles were .22 rimfires - .22LR and a single .22WMR. Prime considerations for us were accuracy, humanity (ie, quick kill, no wounding) and safety. A thing to consider is that outside of the varmint calibers and loads, centerfire cartridges are designed for game much larger than most dogs. I quite carrying my 30-30 after finding that standard deer loads would not reliably expand; I found that .22 hollow points carefully placed were more effective, and a good .22 is usually more accurate than a 30-30 carbine. In four years, the only animal that required a finishing shot after closing in was a dog shot in the chest with a 30-30. If you lived in more open country, a light varmint round such as a .222 or .223 would be ideal, but most varmint rounds carry a *lot* further than the rimfires will, besides being more noticeable to the neigbors. Finally, be aware of both your own limitations and neighbor relations; sometimes you have to be satisfied with chasing the dog off because you cannot safely shoot it. Unless your livestock are in immediate danger or have been repeatedly chased, you might be better off smacking the offending animal in the butt with a good slingshot and talking to the owner. Most farmers are quite aware of the problems dogs can cause; the only problems I have had with this approach are the transplanted city folks who could not bear to think of chaining or penning their darling dog while they were at work. Usually, though, talking to the owner solves the problem and gets you a reputation as a good neighbor; most people are only too glad to cooperate and were honestly unaware of Fido's little hobby. -- -----------------------+------------------------+------------------------------ Dana Crom | Silicon Graphics, Inc. | Smile - let them *WONDER* danac@morc.asd.sgi.com | (415) 335-1449 | what you've been up to . . .
gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) (06/15/91)
#[MODERATOR: Note that the original poster mentioned 15 acres. Not a #lot of elbow room for a .30-'06, hmm? Also, they mentioned recoil from #a shotgun as a consideration. For what its worth, my original response #to them was to consider a surplus .30 carbine -- cheap, light, plentiful #ammo, etc. Maybe not the fight-stopper that a .375 H&H would represent, #but then again it should be adequate for most of the criteria originally #mentioned. If not used for defensive purposes, then some kindly local #could also make up some handloads with nice jacketted hollow points, instead #of hardball, to get better stopping power for hunting. ....] Actually, most 30-06 shots are probably taken at less than 150 yards, often much less, so the 15 acres is not really an issue. Besides, one wouldn't likely want to confine hunting only to one's own property. The 06 is still the best all around big game hunting round commonly available and is certainly suitable for the highly unlikely need for long range self defense. Shotgun recoil is a consideration, though I know some rather small women who are fine shotgunners. The shotgun is a generally more useful day to day tool than a .30 carbine or even the 30-06. It's defensive range is short, but note my comments on long range firefights. Since the poster already had a couple of .22 rifles, the marginally hotter .30 carbine doesn't make much sense. I love the evil nasty assualt rifle and own several, but realistically they just aren't justified for self- defense in any reasonable scenario. The poster's Glock or a shotgun should serve nicely. I really meant it when I said that any area that requires more firepower for day to day survival should be left to the Army. Gary
mcnulty@futura.enet.dec.com (06/15/91)
#Several suppliers make 11, 15, and even 25 round magazines for the #Colt GM. I bought a stainless steel 15-round magazine a while back, #and I was unable to get it to reliably feed in a Colt GM. I lent it #to a friend with a Marlin Camp Carbine in .45 ACP for testing, and #possible purchase. He still hasn't gotten around to testing it, #six months later (Grrr!), so I can't tell you it that solution works #for the Marlin. Would you post the names of these suppliers? And addresses/phone #s if you have them? Please mention which one sold you the 15-rounder that you had problems with. Thanks! ******************************************************************************** Lance McNulty mcnulty@futura.dec.com Digital Equipment Corp. --or-- ...!decwrl!futura.dec.com!mcnulty Marlboro, MA --or-- mcnulty%futura.dec@decwrl.dec.com Humanity's challenge is to cease to be animals while avoiding becoming machines.
petert@uunet.UU.NET (Peter Toth) (06/15/91)
In article <35607@mimsy.umd.edu> moore@tc.fluke.COM (Matt Moore) writes:
#In article <35505@mimsy.umd.edu> snitor!petert@uunet.UU.NET (Peter Toth) writes
##[...]
##The lowly 22 is something to recon with well past 75 yards, and certainly
##fits. It does ricochet though, so a 22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire is
##better, because it doesn't.
#
# Could you explain this statement? It seems strange to me that speeding up
#a .22 bullet would reduce its ricochet hazard.
Agreed: if it were the same bullet, it would be strange indeed.
The 22LR/Long/Short/CB/BB projectiles are nude (unjacketed) "lead".
They are fairly high in Antimony (~10% ?, anyone?) to keep them hard.
As a result, they resist deformation and penetrate and bounce quite well.
When making the 22WMR, folks at Winchester found it hard to make a bullet
that wouldn't smear itself all over the barrel when pushed out at ~200fps,
so they went jacketed.
The 22WMR projectiles i believe to be pure lead, surrounded by the thinnest
jacket i've ever seen. (Warning: always WEAR EYE PROTECTION when dismantling
live ammo. Better yet, take my word for it).
Thus the 22WMR is a true varmint round.
Another difference between the two is that the former projectiles are crimped
into the case (thus the exposed part is flush with the case), whereas the
22 magnums are not. This is of no relevance to the issue of ricochet, but
has the following consequences:
The 22WMR case is .016 inch wider (to surround the bullet) than the bore,
so it won't chamber in guns chambered for the 22 Long Rifle on down.
That's a good thing, because the 22LR is a 26000 CUP cartridge (and even that
may "challenge" some older guns), whereas the 22WMR is rated 34000.
Conversely, members of the 22LR/Long/Short/CB/BB set will be loose in the
22WMR chamber, leaving space for the case to split upon firing and for the
gases to take the shooter's eye out, so it's not recommended.
Those of you finding yourself short of a bolt action 22 (LR) but with a good
bolt in 22WMR (like yer scribe), can remove the base from a fired 22WMR case
by grinding away the rim, and use it as a chamber sleeve. (Removing it from
the chamber is not so easy, so if you want to try this email me, and i'll post
if there is sufficient interest).
Since the bore of guns chambered for the 22LR is of constant diameter,
you can fire the any of 22LR/Long/Short/CB/BB out of a 22.
Peter Tothpetert@uunet.UU.NET (Peter Toth) (06/15/91)
In article <35639@mimsy.umd.edu> ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
#[..]
#serve nicely. I really meant it when I said that any area that requires
#more firepower for day to day survival should be left to the Army.
The Army has no authority within the States.
You'd have to call the Guard.
petertcramer@uunet.UU.NET (Clayton Cramer) (06/18/91)
In article <35649@mimsy.umd.edu>, mcnulty@futura.enet.dec.com writes:
# #Several suppliers make 11, 15, and even 25 round magazines for the
# #Colt GM. I bought a stainless steel 15-round magazine a while back,
# #and I was unable to get it to reliably feed in a Colt GM. I lent it
# #to a friend with a Marlin Camp Carbine in .45 ACP for testing, and
# #possible purchase. He still hasn't gotten around to testing it,
# #six months later (Grrr!), so I can't tell you it that solution works
# #for the Marlin.
#
# Would you post the names of these suppliers? And addresses/phone #s if you have them? Please mention which one sold you the 15-rounder that you had problems with. Thanks!
#
# Lance McNulty mcnulty@futura.dec.com
USA Magazines sells the 15-round magazine that wouldn't feed reliably
in a Colt GM. As for other sizes of magazines, I've seen a number of
makers. Tom Forrest, Inc. (advertises in Shotgun News regularly) sells
a variety of large magazines for the Colt GM.
--
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine!
They can have my urine sample when they pry it from my dead, cold fingers.
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to
teenage boys." -- P.J. O'Rourke, _Parliament_of_Whores_phil@brahms.AMD.COM (Phil Ngai) (06/18/91)
snitor!petert@uunet.UU.NET (Peter Toth) writes:
#The Army has no authority within the States.
It's nice to know the Army didn't participate in the "Civil War".
--
He cleaned the victims' apartment and then killed them.hagen%triton.unm.edu@ariel.unm.edu (06/21/91)
what about a 30-30 like a winchester model 94 ?