MKIELSKY%FAB6@sc.intel.com (Michael Kielsky, SWmerc) (06/11/91)
I got to see and hold one the other day. It seems they are finally shipping them in quantity (and selling them almost as fast). Prices around here (Phoenix) have been in the $549 and up range, although those prices could drop. As far as the gun goes, it looked as good as any of the other Glock offerings. I am told that it kicks less than the 9mm, which would make the .45 version the lightest kicking one in the family (the 17L excepted, maybe). And, yes, the magazines from the 10mm version fit in the .45, and vica versa, but they are different, and you probably cannot use the 10mm magazine to feed .45 ammunition, but the opposite may be possible (although discouraged, and likely a source of problems). Unlike some of the other Glocks, the spring guide and spring are 'permanently' paired, actually making disassembly and especially reassembly easier. It comes with 2 13-round magazines, but the +2 magazines are not yet available. My impression is very positive, and I would certainly love to own one of these! Has anyone had the chance to fire one of these? -- Michael Kielsky Internet: mkielsky%fab6@sc.intel.com OR mkielsky@fab6.intel.com Alternet: agmgk@acvax.inre.asu.edu OR "acvax::agmgk"@envmsa.eas.asu.edu BITnet: agmgk@asuacvax.bitnet Optionet: kielsky@envmsa.eas.asu.edu Postalnet: 1339.E.Donner.Dr.%Tempe.AZ.85282-7217@USA AT&Tnet: 602:839.0818 (H) OR 602:554-2677 (W) PAGEnet: 602:450.1413 SCUDnet: 33:29:52 N 111:59:41 W
tmi@uunet.UU.NET (Peter Kasler) (06/13/91)
Yes, I've fired a Model 21. You heard correctly, the felt recoil is, as one would expect from the friendly old .45 ACP cartridge paired with the comfortable Glock handles (the big frame is even more comfortable), an absolute pleasure to fire. Peter Alan Kasler Threat Management Institute 415-777-0303
john@uunet.UU.NET (John Gayman) (06/15/91)
In article <35448@mimsy.umd.edu>, MKIELSKY%FAB6@sc.intel.com (Michael Kielsky, SWmerc) writes:
# I got to see and hold one the other day. It seems they are finally shipping
# them in quantity (and selling them almost as fast). Prices around here
# (Phoenix) have been in the $549 and up range, although those prices could drop.
Stand by for a full report on the Glock 21. My wait is over and they
finally arrived at my local dealer. Pretty decent price, $479. So thanks
to the state of Pennsylvania I won't have it till next week after which
it will get a full range session with various factory loads and reloads.
It appears identical to the 10mm. Grips are obviously larger than my
original Glock 17 (smooth grips). I'm anxious to see how the polygonal (sp)
rifling performs with my tried and true major power factor 200gr SWC's.
More info to follow.
John
--
John Gayman, WA3WBU | UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!john
1869 Valley Rd. |
Marysville, PA 17053 | Packet: WA3WBU @ WB3EAH rsl@uunet.UU.NET (Roy Stuart Levin) (06/16/91)
Peter, how does the recoil and controlability compare with other Glocks in 9mm and .40SW? How does it compare with other lightweight .45acps like the Commander or Colt Officer's model? Any thoughts?
brewer@cs.UMD.EDU (Tim Brewer) (06/19/91)
Yes the local gun club I belong to has these at the desk so that you can go and try them out. The article you read is right about the .45 but the 10mm kicks like a mule. My personal fav is the .40sw that they have put out its nice!!!! I cant express how good it feels how well it fires. I own the 9mm and now after firing this I wanted it. I want it Baaaad!!!!!! -- Its mine all mine I stand by it no matter what the fact are|Tim Brewer a | majority of one. --------------------
tmi@uunet.UU.NET (Peter Kasler) (06/20/91)
decwrl!well.sf.ca.us!well!rsl@uunet.UU.NET (Roy Stuart Levin) writes:
#Peter, how does the recoil and controlability compare with other Glocks in
#9mm and .40SW? How does it compare with other lightweight .45acps like
#the Commander or Colt Officer's model? Any thoughts?
Felt recoil and controlability of .45 ACP Glock Model 21 compares to Models
17 & 19 (9mmP) favorably, as it does even more so to Models 22 & 23 (.40
S&W) and Model 20 (10mm).
I've only fired the Models 20 & 21 a couple of magazines each in prototype
form, but next week will have an opportunity to do extensive research with
a production Model 21, and possibly the same with a production Model 20.
Essentially, the .45 ACP cartridge is milder and more controllable than the
9mmP cartridge. That fact, coupled with the Model 21's larger grip size
seems to significantly reduce felt recoil. As to what the increased grip
size does to controllability, that's a matter of what individual shooters
think about the larger grips. If one comes to the pistol predisposed that
larger grips will be more difficult to deal with, it's likely to be a self-
fulfilling prophecy. On the other hand, if one gets proper instruction or
knows that a different grip doesn't mean difficulty, only difference, and
one knows or learns how to correctly deal with such things, there should be
no diminution of control.
The same concepts should apply as to the Models 22 & 23 guns with the
proviso that the .40 S&W cartridge tends to be
more harsh in recoil but no less controllable than the 9mmP. The standard
10mm cartridge is even a bit more so than the .40, but the 10mm FBI "Lite"
load is about equal to the .40 S&W in those respects.bae@uunet.UU.NET (Brian Ehrmantraut) (06/22/91)
In article <35799@mimsy.umd.edu>, uunet!mcgp1!brewer@cs.UMD.EDU (Tim Brewer) writes:
# Yes the local gun club I belong to has these at the
# desk so that you can go and try them out. The article you
# read is right about the .45 but the 10mm kicks like a mule.
I haven't noticed that the 10mm Glock has excessive "kick", even with
pretty heavy loads. Seems to kick less than a .45 Government Model, and
definitely much less than a 10mm Delta Elite. I will get a chance to compare
the .45 and 10mm Glock in detail next week, so I'll send out those results
when available.
The 10mm Glock I fired seems reasonably accurate. I haven't yet shot
it enough to draw any conclusions about its reliability.
--
Brian A. Ehrmantraut
BELL: voice:(408) 492-0900 fax: (408) 492-0909
USnail: Auspex Systems, 2952 Bunker Hill Lane, Santa Clara, CA 95054 john@uunet.UU.NET (John Gayman) (06/24/91)
I just returned from a range session with my Glock 21. I took my Glock 17
along so as to make direct comparisons. I took a moment to weigh each pistol
on my scales. Here are the results:
Model Weight (pistol only) Weight of full magazine
----- -------------------- -----------------------
17 20 oz. 10 oz (17rds 115gr FMJ)
21 24 oz. 13 oz (13rds 230gr FMJ)
Overall I was very impressed with the performance of the Glock 21. I ran
the following ammunition through the gun without incident:
CCI Blazer 230gr FMJ
Hansen 230gr FMJ
Remington Shotshell
PMC 185gr JHP
Federal (AE) 230gr FMJ
Federal 230gr Hydra-shock
Reload 5.2gr Bullseye, 200gr LSWC
All in all I put about 400 rds through the gun without a single
malfunction. Unfortunately I did not have the use of my Outers Pistol
Perch nor did I have inserts for my Ransom Rest. So my accuracy judgements
had to rely on a steady, supported hand hold.
As for general observations of the gun, recoil was very mild with all
of the loads. It was every so slightly more noticable than that of the
Glock 17 with 115gr FMJ loads. Obviously the grips are a tad larger but
I found them quite comfortable even during one-handed shooting. My Glock 17
is one of the original models with the smooth grips whereas this newer
model has the molded-in checkering. I thought the trigger on the 21 was
much better than my 17. It broke a bit cleaner and with less effort. Both
triggers exceed the 5 lb capacity of my trigger gauge so I couldn't make
an accurate measurement. I find measuring the triggers on Glocks kinda
difficult anyway with the safety mechanism. The magazines were quite easy
to fully load by hand even though they do provide a loading device. I
noticed that they wouldn't always drop out of the gun cleanly when
empty, however they would drop right out when full. Just the opposite of
the 17. Perhaps after some use they will free up.
Every load I tried shot point-of-aim with the fixed sights. This was a
rather pleasant suprise. I shot mostly at 20 yds. All of the above loads
grouped around 2-3 inches. The PMC 185gr JHP and Hansen 230gr FMJ did
the best at around 2 inches. Considering I had to resort to a hand-hold
I was satisfied. I set up a standard IPSC target at about 30 yds and
it was effortless to keep all the shots well within the A-zone and
headshots were equally easy.
Next I cleaned the bore and tried my 200gr SWC's that I use for IPSC.
They performed well also. I was unsure how the polygonal rifling would
handle cast bullets. I put around 200rds of these through the gun before
heading home. Upon disassembly I found virtually no lead in the barrel.
Very nice. My SIG P-220 leads terribly with these same loads.
Overall I would rate it a success. I wouldn't trade my Wilson .45
for it but I wouldn't hesitate to tuck it into my belt for a tactical
match. It is much more accurate than my 17. (In all fairness to the 17,
my ammunition was limited to American Eagle 115gr FMJ). When Ransom
has some grip inserts available I will strap this baby in for some
serious tests. I hope some of you find this information helpful and
I will welcome additional comments and questions.
John
--
John Gayman, WA3WBU | UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!john
1869 Valley Rd. |
Marysville, PA 17053 | Packet: WA3WBU @ WB3EAH