arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (05/15/91)
Sure, RJG.... Feel free to go out and pay $10,000 for a black and white machine that isnt even NTSC compatible, cant display ANY color AT ALL, has NO software support, and an incredibly limited user base.... Or, you can get an Amiga, a mid-range cost, high-performance multimedia monster, with over 4000 colors displayable at dozens of resolutions, NTSC compatible, with an exceedingly large amount of multimedia software available and a good sized user base. For $500 I can get an Amiga that will outperform a NeXT in many areas. No joke.. Its not that hard to do. The Amiga is the OBVIOUS choice for anything related to multimedia. Arctangent
ems@gsbsun.uchicago.edu (Ted Shelton) (05/15/91)
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: >Sure, RJG.... Feel free to go out and pay $10,000 for a black and white >machine that isnt even NTSC compatible, cant display ANY color AT ALL, has NO >software support, and an incredibly limited user base.... >The Amiga is the OBVIOUS choice for anything related to multimedia. You have perhaps already received some response on your comments about the NeXT platform. I agree that the Amiga is a useful platform though your information about the NeXT is out-of-date and innacurate. The appropriate platform for any given application is never "obvious" and is always a factor of the size, type, complexity, and user environment intended. The Amiga has certain strengths, as does the NeXT. I think we are all served by haveing complete knowledge about computing options so that we can make the correct choice in given situations. Ted Shelton ems@gsbsun.uchicago.edu
cimarron@erewhon.postgres.Berkeley.EDU (Cimarron D. Taylor </>) (05/15/91)
| Sure, RJG.... Feel free to go out and pay $10,000 for a black and white | machine that isnt even NTSC compatible, cant display ANY color AT ALL, I believe you are thinking of the original NeXT machine. The new ``NeXTstation'' and ``NeXTcube'' are both capable of color and there is also this nifty new ``NeXTdimension'' board which features 30 fps JPEG video and a lot of other mondo features which are beyond me. From the tech literature I picked up at a NeXT factory tour, I believe at least one of the above is NTSC compatible too. Cimarron Taylor Electronics Research Laboratory / POSTGRES project University of California, Berkeley cimarron@postgres.berkeley.edu
jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J Eric Townsend) (05/16/91)
In article <CIMARRON.91May15073323@erewhon.postgres.Berkeley.EDU> cimarron@erewhon.postgres.Berkeley.EDU (Cimarron D. Taylor </>) writes: > and there is also this nifty new ``NeXTdimension'' board which > features 30 fps JPEG video and a lot of other mondo features which So the PEG bugs are fixed? It actually functions now? What's base price on a NeXT w/ dimension + genlock + a ton of interactive multimedia, modeling and titling software? That's what I thought. Buy an Amiga, buy a Toaster, get a CDTV and developer's kit, buy AmigaVision... :-) -- J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2126 Skate UNIX or bleed, boyo...(UNIX is a trademark of Unix Systems Laboratories). [As soon as my Amiga 3000 arrives, it'll be Skate Motorola time!]
tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Terry Jones) (05/16/91)
SO they have the toaster for the Amiga 3000 available do they? Last I heard I had to buy an old technology Amiga 2000 or 2500 to put a Toaster in. The NeXT box (when it is shipping with JPEG functional which I do not think is presently the case thanks to C-Cube!) will do something the Amiga will probably never do. Edit digital video on disk. There are lots of other things a NeXT will do much more easily than an Amiga, like exist cleanly in an ethernet university environment. The counter arguments could go on for both sides forever. Different machines are more appropriate for different applications, and Amiga is great at NTSC video in some areas, but there is often a larger picture that the platform has to fit into. I find than your comments are a bit obnoxious sounding, come off the soap box for a while, tell us what your preferred platform does well, help when help is needed, but don't attack....
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (05/16/91)
In article <1991May16.140513.4946@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Terry Jones) writes: >The NeXT box (when it is shipping with JPEG functional which I do not think >is presently the case thanks to C-Cube!) will do something the Amiga will >probably never do. Edit digital video on disk. There are lots of other >things a NeXT will do much more easily than an Amiga, like exist cleanly in >an ethernet university environment. > I seem to remember being able to do this today, actually. Requires a digitizer and a program such as ADPro which manipulates 24 images. JPEG makes the process easier, admittedly, in that it saves disk-drive room. But there's no reason you can't do just what you described. -- Ethan The constitution isn't perfect, but it's better than what we have now.
mark@masscomp.westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) (05/17/91)
In article <1991May16.140513.4946@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Terry Jones) writes: >The NeXT box (when it is shipping with JPEG functional which I do not think >is presently the case thanks to C-Cube!) will do something the Amiga will >probably never do. Edit digital video on disk. A testament from the grossly shortsighted and uninformed. Your ignorance is overwhelming. First of all, JPEG is not intended for moving video, that is the realm of MPEG. JPEG is being used by a few companies to implement digital video editing, but image quality is fair at best. Because JPEG cannot take advantage of image to image coherency, it must sacrifice image quality to achieve the compression needed for real time video recording, playback, and editing from disk. MPEG addresses this problem as that was what it was meant to do. Commodore purportedly is already talking to MPEG chip manufacturers in an effort to include this technology in the Amiga's long list of multimedia capabilities. I might add that it is currently possible to edit and playback digital video from disk on the Amiga using DCTV. Real time recording is coming soon. >There are lots of other >things a NeXT will do much more easily than an Amiga, like exist cleanly in >an ethernet university environment. You truly are uninformed. On that note, I'm out of here. These NeXT wars are disturbingly non-productive and it appears that all you want is a war. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Terry Jones) (05/17/91)
>>The NeXT box (when it is shipping with JPEG functional which I do not think >>is presently the case thanks to C-Cube!) will do something the Amiga will >>probably never do. Edit digital video on disk. > >A testament from the grossly shortsighted and uninformed. Your ignorance >is overwhelming. First of all, JPEG is not intended for moving video, >that is the realm of MPEG. Well excuse me... I fail to understand how NeXT's choice to use JPEG to compress video places me in the overwhelmingly uninformed class. I am well aware of the purpose of both JPEG and MPEG. I thought we were talking about what NeXT and Amiga were (not) doing, not what some people feel they should do! >image quality to achieve the compression needed for real time video >recording, playback, and editing from disk. MPEG addresses this problem >as that was what it was meant to do. Commodore purportedly is already >talking to MPEG chip manufacturers in an effort to include this technology >in the Amiga's long list of multimedia capabilities. And I bet that NeXT hasn't heard of MPEG and aren't talking to ANYONE about it! Whats your point... >I might add that it >is currently possible to edit and playback digital video from disk on the >Amiga using DCTV. Real time recording is coming soon. Lots of things are "coming real soon now". Why I bet you will even see the Macintosh do some amazing things with video in the near future... >>There are lots of other >>things a NeXT will do much more easily than an Amiga, like exist cleanly in >>an ethernet university environment. > >You truly are uninformed. On that note, I'm out of here. These NeXT wars Huh? Whats your point? With an ethernet port built into the next and a Unix operating system, lets face it it drops in place (well almost... I guess you just type "make"!!). What are you doing for network mail and access to file servers, printers and stuff. Maybe there are packages and hardware available, but this stuff is standard equipment with the NeXT. I really don't mind being pointed out as uninformed as long as you can provide some reasonable information. Thanks. >are disturbingly non-productive and it appears that all you want is a war. Well, its not all non productive, you are about to tell me about some nice Amiga stuff for ethernet connectivity and about DCTV for Amiga (could you provide a company and number so I can call them?) No I don't want war, but some comments posted (similar to yours) were sounding on the nasty side. Lets stick to information rather than slamming. tj
manes@vger.nsu.edu ((Mark D. Manes), Norfolk State University) (05/18/91)
In article <1991May16.140513.4946@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Terry Jones) writes: > SO they have the toaster for the Amiga 3000 available do they? Last I heard > I had to buy an old technology Amiga 2000 or 2500 to put a Toaster in. The Toaster is not yet available for the A3000. However, I don't recall the Toaster being the point of the entire earlier post. There are many products both hardware and software that are available for the entire Amiga line of computers that allow instant impressive video capability. > > The NeXT box (when it is shipping with JPEG functional which I do not think > is presently the case thanks to C-Cube!) will do something the Amiga will > probably never do. Edit digital video on disk. There are lots of other > things a NeXT will do much more easily than an Amiga, like exist cleanly in > an ethernet university environment. What do you base this on? I think it very likely that JPEG will come to the Amiga. I would even be bold enough to say that probably sooner than later. I really do not see a specail 'feature' in the NeXT that makes this type of work more 'do-able'. As far as existing 'cleanly' in a ethernet environment goes. I would be interested in your idea of 'clean'. Amigas have been able to use 'ethernet' since 1986. Not exactly nor really exciting technology if you ask me. > > The counter arguments could go on for both sides forever. Different machines > are more appropriate for different applications, and Amiga is great at NTSC > video in some areas, but there is often a larger picture that the platform > has to fit into. I agree. I think there is room for more than one hardware solution to problems. I think this was the original reason for the first 'pro-amiga' post. You see the PC-noids and the Mac-freaks (there I said it!) and their publications _always_ ignore better technology _if_ it is not MS/DOS or Mac compatible. As with most things what is "best" is often disregarded based on market-share, which is too bad. You as a NeXT owner will get to experience this 'frustration' as well. :-) > > I find than your comments are a bit obnoxious sounding, come off the soap > box for a while, tell us what your preferred platform does well, help when > help is needed, but don't attack.... They were a bit obnoxious, your comments were not much better. But, it does point out that even in multimedia the blinders are firmly in place all around. -mark= +--------+ ================================================== | \/ | Mark D. Manes "The Most lopsided deal since ..." | /\ \/ | manes@vger.nsu.edu | / | (804) 683-2532 "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA" +--------+ ================================================== "I protest Captain! I am not a merry man!" - Lt. Worf
hahn@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu (Ki Suk Hahn) (05/18/91)
In article <1991May16.203820.21059@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Terry Jones) writes: >>are disturbingly non-productive and it appears that all you want is a war. >Well, its not all non productive, you are about to tell me about some Hi. I'm new to this group and I read it for information, even if a lot of the discussions are over my head. I think it's productive to have these exchanges so that differing opinions are aired. --k hahn
mark@calvin..westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) (05/18/91)
In article <62084@masscomp.westford.ccur.com> mark@masscomp.westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) writes: >A testament from the grossly shortsighted and uninformed. ...rest deleted... Sorry, maybe I was a bit harsh. I would just like to see the level of conversation get above "my computer does this and yours never will". %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics % % ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect % % Productions & General Nuisance % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Daniel Martin) (05/18/91)
In article <1991May15.193236.4712@menudo.uh.edu> jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J Eric Townsend) writes: >In article <CIMARRON.91May15073323@erewhon.postgres.Berkeley.EDU> cimarron@erewhon.postgres.Berkeley.EDU (Cimarron D. Taylor </>) writes: >> and there is also this nifty new ``NeXTdimension'' board which >> features 30 fps JPEG video and a lot of other mondo features which > >So the PEG bugs are fixed? It actually functions now? What's base >price on a NeXT w/ dimension + genlock + a ton of interactive multimedia, >modeling and titling software? That sound like the Mac defensive arguments "Sure the toaster is wonderful: does everything a TV studio does for less than 5000$, but have they fixed their latest bugs? Have they passed FCC? And who owns amigas... yak yak yak. For your information: NeXT Station, 100 Meg, 8 Meg ram, BW Monitor, 68040, DSP, softwares (UNIX) etc. for 4995$ list. NeXT Dimension board, 32 bitplanes, 8 bitplanes alpha channel. A really impressive card. 3995$ list. Educationnal discount available and very interesting. From: Walter Daugherity, September 18, 1990 "...The 32-bit color board has a 33 MHz i860 (64-bit RISC) graphics processor and a JPEG compression coprocessor from C-Cube, which lets you take live video and compress and store it in real time (up to 60 minutes on the optional 1.4 gigabyte internal hard disk). All standard video inputs and outputs are supported. At 30,000 polygons per second (Gouraud shading, triangular, meshed), this "true color" runs as fast as or faster than the 4 gray-level monochrome NeXT's." Software: one or two softwares directly aimed at multimedia. Geesh, a TON! Can you list some of your TON of MULTIMEDIA software? Genlocks: the NeXTDimension card can be use as a genlock with video (S-VHS) output, but I don't know yet if you can display live video in a window with it (digital). >That's what I thought. What did you thought? That the amiga offer more and cost less? Well think again. Amiga is an honest offer, but so is the NeXT. On my NeXT I have a large display, a very good interface, display postscript, Interface Builder, good sound (DSP), good object oriented languages, multimedia e-mail facilities, fax integration, etc. all standard. The amiga family doesn't. Hear, at home I have a A3000. Cost me around 6000$ CDN. Been a developer since 1986. I like it and work profesionnaly on it. But you must open your eyes and look at what's on the market. I wouldn't put a NeXT at home (yet), but neither an Amiga in my buisness office (yet). In many labs like here, UNIX, X Windows and ethernet are mandatory. Screen less than 16" are small and resolution less than 1000x1000 is unsatisfactory. When the A3000UX will be shipped with the 68040, large screen, color, DSP, etc. I wonder how much they will sell their machine. Nothing is free, and competition is harsh. Let me tell you that NeXT have set one of the most interesting price war in the Workstation market. So, what are your solutions in the 1280x1024x24 RGB display area? How much does it cost?? And don't give me any flickering solution. Video is going digital anyway. Oh, and which card do you recommend to compress video? Any C-Cube implementation on the horizon? > >Buy an Amiga, buy a Toaster, get a CDTV and developer's kit, >buy AmigaVision... :-) I hope you realize that the toaster really SAVED the Amiga, or do you? I agree that Commodore Dynamic Total Vision is a smart move, but for their sake they better MARKET IT before Phillips AND sony goes out with their systems. And what do you think of AmigaVision? It would be interesting to compare our experiences with some of our students that used it for the last 12 months... >J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2126 -- // Daniel Martin Universite de Montreal \\ // MediaLab, ca vous regarde! C.P. 6128, Succursale A, \\ \\// Mail: martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA Montreal (Quebec), CANADA, \\// \/ Tel.: (514) 343-6111 poste 3494 H3C 3J7 \/
hackbod@prism.cs.orst.edu (Dave Hackborn) (05/18/91)
In article <1991May18.001444.4743@IRO.UMontreal.CA> martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Daniel Martin) writes: > > NeXT Station, 100 Meg, 8 Meg ram, BW Monitor, 68040, DSP, softwares (UNIX) > etc. for 4995$ list. > > NeXT Dimension board, 32 bitplanes, 8 bitplanes alpha channel. A really > impressive card. 3995$ list. The only problem is that you can't use the NeXT Dimension board with the NeXT Stations :-) The NeXT Station doesn't have any slots; you'll need to get a NeXT Cube, which is about $8000. As far as I know, the Cube is basically the same as the Station, except that it has slots. Yes, the NeXT Station *is* a nice machine, and when I was looking for a computer to buy, I had a tough time deciding between it and the A3000. Until I found out that there was no way to upgrade it to color. I HATE b&w. If you want color, the NeXT Station Color is about $8000 and gives you 1120 x 832 pixel 12 bit (4096 color) display with 12 MB. Oh, and you'll need the 340MB drive to do anything serious. I really like the NeXT computers. I just wish I could afford one. :-)
elg@elgamy.RAIDERNET.COM (Eric Lee Green) (05/18/91)
From article <62084@masscomp.westford.ccur.com>, by mark@masscomp.westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson): > In article <1991May16.140513.4946@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca > (Terry Jones) writes: >>There are lots of other >>things a NeXT will do much more easily than an Amiga, like exist cleanly in >>an ethernet university environment. > > You truly are uninformed. On that note, I'm out of here. These NeXT wars > are disturbingly non-productive and it appears that all you want is a war. Uninformed indeed, considering that NeXT and Commodore are using the exact same Berkeley networking code! (That's right, much of Commodore's current Ethernet TCP/IP package is a fairly straight port, complete all the way down to the "FTP" and "rlogin" programs). In addition, you can get "X" from Boing! and REALLY "rlogin" to your remote hosts (i.e., via a graphical windowing interface, instead of glass tty). -- Eric Lee Green (318) 984-1820 P.O. Box 92191 Lafayette, LA 70509 elg@elgamy.RAIDERNET.COM uunet!mjbtn!raider!elgamy!elg
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (05/19/91)
Exist "cleanly" ? Define that.. There are more than a few Ethernet cards for the A2000/3000 series. Theyre not that hard to find... Besides, CBM already has a VERY nice Unix-based Amiga, which stacks up rather nicel when measured up to a Next. Arctangent
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (05/19/91)
Exactly. For instance.. Picked up a MacUser today with some news on System 7.0... They were making a big shit out what they call IPC... Inter-process communication, making the average idiot think that this is some kind of technical innoovation available only to Mac users..Sheesh. Amigas have been doing inter-process communcation since 1985. BIG DEAL.... Even when I look back on what I reas about System 7 for the Mac, the Amiga already has it all..Its like theyre doing a catch-up job. Arctangent
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (05/19/91)
Well, Mark.. it IS true.. There are some "stunts" an Amiga can perform that a NeXT, Mac OR IBM will NEVER be able to perform. WHy? To enable each one of those machines to perform it, youde render it incompatible with what was made before. Should send you a videotape of some good european demos. The simple fact is, when it comes to the Amiga and audio/visual stuff, what we consider commonplace, and even in some cased BORING, other users of other platforms look at it and drool. The Amiga was BUILT to handle audio and video simultaneously, ever since the beginning of the machine in 1985. And it shows. And just to remind you, incase you may have forgotten. simultaneous audio and video is what the multi in "multimedia" means. This is why the Amiga is the best choice, over NeXT, and their barely-there-at-all software base, the IBM in its cryptic, cold text interfaces and clogged up operating system. The only viable solution under an Amiga is a Mac.. They have just begun to step into multimedia, and even still, they cant multitask to any successful degree... Even to get the effect you want, youre going to have to dish out a gigazillion dollars to do it. WHY BOTHER. The Amiga does it, has been doing it, and WILL CONTINUE to do it well into the future.. The only problem is, is the public's lack of attention for so called "cult" machines.. Arctangent, Age 16. PS..And I bet youde be surprised if you knew how large the "cult" has grown.
jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J Eric Townsend) (05/20/91)
In article <1991May16.203820.21059@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Terry Jones) writes: >Well, its not all non productive, you are about to tell me about some >nice Amiga stuff for ethernet connectivity and about DCTV for Amiga (could >you provide a company and number so I can call them?) The 3000UX (Amiga 3000 with system V release 4 unix) comes with an ethernet controller (and tcp/ip of course). I don't have the list prices handy, but these are the educational prices as of this month or last for the CBM ethernet/arcnet products: A2060 (Arcnet) $ 158 A2065 (Ethernet) $ 241 My fall/winter '90 (somewhat outdated, but the most recent I can find) Guide to the Commodore Amiga (a big catalog of all the cool stuff people make) lists: A2000 ethernet card, ACD, West Germany, +49 421 3499517 DoubleTalk (AppleTalk interface), PP&S, Denver, CO 303.825.4144 Lan Rover, ASDG, Madison, Wi, 608.273.6585 (for OEM apps only) Also listed is: TSSnet (DECNET), Syndesis, Brookly, Wi, 608.455.1422 X11 for the Amiga, Gfx Base, Milpitas, CA, 408.262.1469 -- J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2126 "The final twitch of P.C. grand peur has to do with the age-old fear of antinomian beastliness, lesbians holding black masses over copies of Derrida and so forth." -- Alexander Cockburn
billsey@agora.UUCP (Bill Seymour) (05/21/91)
In article <1991May19.191059.7128@menudo.uh.edu>, J Eric Townsend writes: > My fall/winter '90 (somewhat outdated, but the most recent I can find) > Guide to the Commodore Amiga (a big catalog of all the cool stuff > people make) lists: > > A2000 ethernet card, ACD, West Germany, +49 421 3499517 > DoubleTalk (AppleTalk interface), PP&S, Denver, CO 303.825.4144 > Lan Rover, ASDG, Madison, Wi, 608.273.6585 (for OEM apps only) Interesting that DoubleTalk is included in the listing, even though it's still not for sale, and that Interact isn't listed, even though it's been available on the market for well over a year. Just goes to show you that PP&S has better marketing people than DigiFeX, I guess. :-) > J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2126 > "The final twitch of P.C. grand peur has to do with the age-old fear of > antinomian beastliness, lesbians holding black masses over copies of > Derrida and so forth." -- Alexander Cockburn -Bill Seymour nesbbx!billsey@agora.uucp or nesbbx!billsey@agora.rain.com ***** American People/Link Amiga Zone Hardware Specialist NES*BILL ***** Bejed, Inc. NES, Inc. NAG BBS NES BBX BBS Home Sometimes (503)281-8153 (503)246-9311 (503)656-7393 (503)640-9337 (503) 640-0842
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (05/21/91)
In article <1991May16.140513.4946@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Terry Jones) writes: >There are lots of other things a NeXT will do much more easily than an Amiga, >like exist cleanly in an ethernet university environment. That's absolute bunk. My Amiga here has been existing cleanly in an Ethernet based engineering environment since before NeXT existed, period. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "That's me in the corner, that's me in the spotlight" -R.E.M.
melby@daffy.yk.Fujitsu.CO.JP (John B. Melby) (05/21/91)
> Exactly. For instance.. Picked up a MacUser today with some news on System > 7.0... They were making a big shit out what they call IPC [....] This term is generic and is in common use among UNIX programmers. What it all boils down to is that if you don't have processes, you can't have IPC. Next.... ----- John B. Melby Fujitsu Limited, Machida, Japan melby%yk.fujitsu.co.jp@fai.com
martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Daniel Martin) (05/22/91)
In article <21753@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >In article <1991May16.140513.4946@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Terry Jones) writes: >>There are lots of other things a NeXT will do much more easily than an Amiga, >>like exist cleanly in an ethernet university environment. > >That's absolute bunk. My Amiga here has been existing cleanly in an Ethernet >based engineering environment since before NeXT existed, period. >Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" Well, it's true that there was an ethernet solution (by Ameristar, now a Commodore product) before the NeXT went public. His statement is true in at least one way: the NeXT validates the user and can be "trusted" in a network. This is not yet the case under AmigaDos. I can set my uid/gid to anything, and have unrestricted access to the mounted partitions. In our network, we 'restricted' our amigas to 'ftp' and 'login' (pathetic :-(). -- // Daniel Martin Universite de Montreal \\ // MediaLab, ca vous regarde! C.P. 6128, Succursale A, \\ \\// Mail: martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA Montreal (Quebec), CANADA, \\// \/ Tel.: (514) 343-6111 poste 3494 H3C 3J7 \/
martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Daniel Martin) (05/22/91)
Relating to a series of articles from "Arctangent": >>> Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems Foreword - If you intent to give information on the Amiga over the Network, as your organisation name states, I hope you change your style, since IMHO you do more harm than good. > There are more than a few Ethernet cards for the A2000/3000 series. Theyre not > that hard to find... More than a few? Beside the card from Commodore (actually bought from Ameristar) which ones are you talking about? > Besides, CBM already has a VERY nice Unix-based Amiga, which stacks up rather > nicel when measured up to a Next. Have you ever work on NeXT? The 3000UX is a very nice home workstation (I have one at home). The NeXT is a very nice office workstation (I have one at my office). Wouldn't interchange them. Both are good machines, each in their own realm. I don't expect to use TAD on the NeXT (yet), but neither do I use FrameMaker on my Amiga (yet). The NeXT has interesting features: Interface Builder, display postscrip, object oriented everywhere, DSP and mike standards, Mach, high quality monitor etc. Just for those concepts, I would NeXT Inc. to survive. They really make the competition move... > Exactly. For instance.. Picked up a MacUser today with some news on System > 7.0... They were making a big shit out what they call IPC... Inter-process > communication, making the average idiot think that this is some kind of > technical innoovation available only to Mac users..Sheesh. > Amigas have been doing inter-process communcation since 1985. BIG DEAL.... > Even when I look back on what I reas about System 7 for the Mac, the Amiga > already has it all..Its like theyre doing a catch-up job. The point is that they are catching up. And they have a bigger userbase. And IMHO, better marketing. Normally, when the amiga has a working prototype of something, Apple "discover" it until IBM and Microsoft invent it! :-) > Well, Mark.. it IS true.. There are some "stunts" an Amiga can perform that a > NeXT, Mac OR IBM will NEVER be able to perform. > WHy? To enable each one of those machines to perform it, youde render it > incompatible with what was made before. I wouldn't use NEVER. I think an IBM 34010 based graphic card can easily do whatever copper-blitter operation I can think of right now on a 1024x1024 256 colors screen. Now with a nice midi module, you can do some pretty neat "intro". Of course you NEVER mentionned price... Now we can reverse your statement: there's quite a lot of things that those platforms have that the amiga does not support right now: video in a window, 24 bit RGB color (not NTSC, or composite), postscript display, 68040, virtual memory, etc. >Should send you a videotape of some good european demos. The simple fact is, >when it comes to the Amiga and audio/visual stuff, what we consider >commonplace, and even in some cased BORING, other users of other platforms >look at it and drool. The Amiga was BUILT to handle audio and video >simultaneously, ever since the beginning of the machine in 1985. And it shows. Those demo are quite impressive. Now people do work, you know. And they use BORING stuff like spreadsheets, word processors, mathematical tools, etc. (I.e. Wings, Lotus Improv, 4th Dimension, DBase, Mathematica, Words, FrameMaker, etc.) None of them available on AmigaDos (Some, like FrameMaker, can be used via X Windows). >And just to remind you, incase you may have forgotten. simultaneous audio and >video is what the multi in "multimedia" means. It now regroups also text, animation, graphics, and images. Simultaneous. > This is why the Amiga is the best choice.... Because you can do wild cool intros? I agree that the hardware WAS built to support sound and video, but "almost" no changes have been made in the basic functionnalities offered by the special chipset (number of colors, screen size, CHIPMEM speed limitations, etc.). It still gives you good performance price wise, but the market is catching up FAST. > over NeXT, and their barely-there-at-all software base Haven't we spoke of software yet? Frame and Mathematica work on NeXT computers. Those tools are used *heavily* in universities. I agree that they lack commercial softwares. It's like the amiga used to be, back in 1986. > the IBM in its cryptic, cold text interfaces and clogged up operating system. Agreed on the OS. But Windows have been invented :-) and that will give fuel for at least 5 other years of IBM PC's compatible monopole. They'll be supplanted by workstation and palmtop, not by other PC's. > The only viable solution under an Amiga is a Mac.. They have just begun to step into > multimedia, and even still, they cant multitask to any successful degree... > Even to get the effect you want, youre going to have to dish out a gigazillion > dollars to do it. Yup, but they just begun :-). As far as the multitasking issue goes, I'm hoping 7.0 will support preemptive multitasking. I find it really unproductive to work under a non-preemptive multitasking environment anymore. And they have HyperCard and Macromind Director. HyperCard is shipped with every MacIntosh, and is really a wonderfull prototyping tool. (AmigaVision did not fullfill our expectations.) >WHY BOTHER. The Amiga does it, has been doing it, and WILL CONTINUE to do it >well into the future.. The only problem is, is the public's lack of attention >for so called "cult" machines.. Conclusion: If you intent to give information on the Amiga on the Network, I hope you change your style and do a more research, since IMHO you do more harm than good for the Amiga. That's all folks, Daniel. P.S. All 'noise' should be redirected to comp.sys.amiga.advocacy. Please. -- // Daniel Martin Universite de Montreal \\ // MediaLab, ca vous regarde! C.P. 6128, Succursale A, \\ \\// Mail: martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA Montreal (Quebec), CANADA, \\// \/ Tel.: (514) 343-6111 poste 3494 H3C 3J7 \/
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (05/22/91)
In article <1991May21.233534.10638@IRO.UMontreal.CA> martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Daniel Martin) writes: > His statement is true in at least one way: the NeXT validates the user > and can be "trusted" in a network. Hah. You need to discuss security on TCP/IP based networks with the folks at Project Athena. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (05/23/91)
>In article <1991May16.140513.4946@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca > (Terry Jones) writes: > >>There are lots of other things a NeXT will do much more easily than an Amiga, > >>like exist cleanly in an ethernet university environment. > >That's absolute bunk. My Amiga here has been existing cleanly in an Ethernet >based engineering environment since before NeXT existed, period. > >-- >Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" > {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy > "That's me in the corner, that's me in the spotlight" -R.E.M. (clap clap clap clap) ArCTaNGeNt Naperville, IL
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (05/23/91)
>> Exactly. For instance.. Picked up a MacUser today with some news on System >> 7.0... They were making a big shit out what they call IPC [....] > >This term is generic and is in common use among UNIX programmers. What it >all boils down to is that if you don't have processes, you can't have IPC. >Next.... > >----- >John B. Melby >Fujitsu Limited, Machida, Japan >melby%yk.fujitsu.co.jp@fai.com Gotcha. What I meant was, its lpretty sad to see all the Mac users get so exited over little things. I mean, it seems the general user public for the Macintosh about wets its pants at even the thought of multitasking. Even though Unix/Amiga have been doing it for eons. Its like locking a kid up, and giving him a rock to play with... The kid will be totally exited over the rock, meanwhile you and me look at a million rocks every day. I consider Mac users to be deprived children. Im lucky I have an Amiga.... Ive spoiled myself. (No fancy signature) Arctangent
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (05/23/91)
Whew, talk about a case of bug-up-the-butt.. First off.. I thought the NeXT/Amiga argument died? Ethernet cards: Besides the one made by CBM, I know there is at least 1 other. I gave my AmigaWorld to someone else, so I cant tell you offhand. I know ive seen it somewhere, though. Used a NeXT ONCE.. Wasnt really impressed outside of the picture. Sorry, but sleek and sexy BLACK computers dont turn me on. Its the guts inside that count. True, the Mac IS catching up, along with the IBM. But you overlook the fact that CBM has been doing a little moving-and-shaking of its own over the past year and a half...Having your company's stock jump from 4 1/2 to 21 1/4 bucks a share is what I call "positive growth", dont you? I dont mean to beat NeXT into the ground. We all know the NeXT is one mother of a platform. Its just that the Amiga kills it in some areas. As does the NeXT kill the Amiga in other areas as well. The 34010 based graphics card from IBM wasnt MADE by IBM. The 34010 chip was made by TI. If I remember correctly, there is (will be soon) a board for the Amiga that handles the 34010. A vague rumor, though. I doubt that it exists. Price? Ok. Im willing to bet that a $500 Amiga can outperform a VGA based 386 in the area of multimedia. Video-in-a-window? Who needs that.. For the cost of the board that will enable you to do that, you might as well go out and buy yourself a couple color TV's.. Even still, you can run out and get a cheap Genlock for around $100, and have video overlayed in the background while you work. Big whoopie. The "boring" things you listed as being "unavailable on the Amiga" arent in name... But in function, they are VERY available. We have equivalents to them. Geez, its not like the Amiga dosent have a single database/spreadsheet available for it. I know multimedia encompasses everything from Audio to visual/animated/ interactive/text/whatever..Was just using simultaneous audio and visual as an incredibly SIMPLE thing to do on the Amiga, that give platforms like the IBM a severe heart attack in trying to perform. The AMiga is the best choice because I can do cool intros? Right. Thats my point exactly. The cool intros show us what CAN be done. What can be in those intros can be in multimedia, ya know. As long as we know the capability is THERE, IN THE MACHINE, >>WITHOUT<< ANY ADD-ON CARDS.. If we know this, then there really is NO NEED for extra hardware (sound/video enhancements)..... The market for that just isnt there for the Amiga. The installed graphics/audio hardware on the Amiga is STILL far ahead of the competition, both in price and performance. I doubt Windows will last for another 5 years. People WILL eventually wise up, and figure out how much theyre being swindled for with Windows.. There will be future Macs, and future Amigas that will leave the future-less IBM's in the dust, and the cryptic dos interface will be dead from then on. Macromind Director isnt really THAT impressive. Saw it a couple times demoed on a favoite computer nerd show of mine on a local PBS station. Didnt look that spectacular. Hypercard is nice, yes. To a certain degree. I personally like AmigaVision better though. To each his own, eh? And for now, just kill the NeXT/Amiga argument. ArcTaNGent
mcc@moscom.UUCP (Mike Corbett) (05/24/91)
In article <arctngnt.2769@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: >Macromind Director isnt really THAT impressive. Saw it a couple times demoed >on a favoite computer nerd show of mine on a local PBS station. Didnt look >that spectacular. > I'm confused. Is the Macromind Director (that everyone in the Mac community is salivating over) the same thing as The Director that was first created on and for the Amiga, or is someone else ripping-off that products name? Mike -- /// /// "Only Amiga Makes It Possible!" mcc@moscom.com \\\ /// \XXX/ "On the other hand, you have different fingers..." Steven Wright
hill@cse.uta.edu (Adam Hill) (05/25/91)
In article <192b78dc.ARN00ff@nesbbx.UUCP> nesbbx!billsey@agora.UUCP writes: > Interesting that DoubleTalk is included in the listing, even though >it's still not for sale, and that Interact isn't listed, even though it's ^^^^^^^^^^^^ -- WHAT?!?!?! My dealer has 2 of them and uses them to output to NTX's, QMS Color 100's, HP Painjet XL and a Lino 500. It has "real" packaging, bound manuals and a registration card. You can send mail via it and move files back and forth to a server. It also support Amiga to Amiga mode that runs at 400K/sec (As opposed to ATalk's 200K/s) And I beleive the price was around 250.00 >been available on the market for well over a year. Just goes to show you >that PP&S has better marketing people than DigiFeX, I guess. :-) > -Bill Seymour nesbbx!billsey@agora.uucp or nesbbx!billsey@agora.rain.com -- adam hill -- hill@cse.uta.edu ASOCC - University of Texas at UTA I programmed for three days Make Up Your Own Mind.. AMIGA! And heard no human voices. Amiga... Multimedia NOW! But the hard disk sang. - TZoP Born To Run SVR4
<LEEK@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> (05/28/91)
In article <arctngnt.2769@amiganet.chi.il.us>, arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) says: > >Ethernet cards: Besides the one made by CBM, I know there is at least 1 other. >I gave my AmigaWorld to someone else, so I cant tell you offhand. I know ive >seen it somewhere, though. GVP makes one. I seen it in World of Commodore. I don't know whether it is Ethernet or Arcnet. > >The 34010 based graphics card from IBM wasnt MADE by IBM. The 34010 chip was >made by TI. If I remember correctly, there is (will be soon) a board for the >Amiga that handles the 34010. A vague rumor, though. I doubt that it exists. > Yes. It does !! I believed some Commodore folks mentioned it and gave some specs. It is a released product not a rumor. It was show in World of Commodore at Toronto around Dec. last year. They had a 24-bit picture as a back drop of X-windows on a 3000. > >And for now, just kill the NeXT/Amiga argument. >ArcTaNGent Yeap ! K. C. Lee "Be careful of what you wish for. It might come true."-Master Splinter,T.M.N.T
rick@ameristar (Rick Spanbauer) (05/28/91)
In article <1991May21.233534.10638@IRO.UMontreal.CA> martin@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Daniel Martin) writes: > His statement is true in at least one way: the NeXT validates the user >and can be "trusted" in a network. This is not yet the case under AmigaDos. >I can set my uid/gid to anything, and have unrestricted access to the mounted >partitions. In our network, we 'restricted' our amigas to 'ftp' and 'login' >(pathetic :-(). > // Daniel Martin Universite de Montreal \\ On an ordinary Unix machine, eg a Sun, it is possible to pretend, using NFS, to be any user one wants to. This requires about as much skill, especially under earlier releases of SunOS, as re-setting the uid/gid in Amiga TCP/IP. It is hard to provide real authentication on a machine that does not have a protected memory address space. I've heard that the PC implementations of NFS have this same problem, even though some use pcnfsd to authenticate a user. Security that is little more than an illusion is perhaps worse at times than no security at all. As I recall the timeline, we've had NFS running on ethernet on the Amiga since roughly 1986. Since I don't follow the NeXT, you can figure out which existed first ;-) Rick
rjmical@ntg.com (R.J. Mical) (05/29/91)
I think the Amiga is the best computer in the known universe.
jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) (05/29/91)
rjmical@ntg.com (R.J. Mical) writes: >I think the Amiga is the best computer in the known universe. Uhh, I don't think this is anything new. :) (You kinda expect this from one of the people who *made* the machine...:) Btw, Rj, do you have any new and interesting things you've written lying around on those (probably gigabyte) hard drives of yours? :) -- Joseph Hillenburg jph@irie.ais.org
valentin@btr.BTR.COM (Valentin Pepelea valentin@btr.com) (05/29/91)
In article <754@goblin.ntg.com> rjmical@ntg.com (R.J. Mical) writes: > >I think the Amiga is the best computer in the known universe. Yeah, but ghosts from the past keep haunting it. Valentin -- "An operating system without virtual memory Name: Valentin Pepelea is an operating system without virtue." Phone: (408) 985-1700 Usenet: mips!btr!valentin - Ancient Inca Proverb Internet: valentin@btr.com
jcb@NCD.COM (Jim Becker) (05/30/91)
valentin@btr.BTR.COM (Valentin Pepelea valentin@btr.com) writes: In article <754@goblin.ntg.com> rjmical@ntg.com (R.J. Mical) writes: > >I think the Amiga is the best computer in the known universe. Yeah, but ghosts from the past keep haunting it. Valentin Boo! What other old Amiga spooks are still out there? Hey, I was doing MM five years ago on this thang! Still great for it.. still the machine of the future. [always has been, always will be.. :-)] -Jim -- -- -Jim Becker / jcb@ncd.com / Network Computing Devices, Inc. (NCD)
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (05/30/91)
In article <754@goblin.ntg.com> rjmical@ntg.com (R.J. Mical) writes: >I think the Amiga is the best computer in the known universe. You have exceedingly good taste for a person living in California. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "That's me in the corner, that's me in the spotlight" -R.E.M.
melby@daffy.yk.Fujitsu.CO.JP (John B. Melby) (05/30/91)
<comments about Amiga omitted> #define flame This newsgroup is starting to look like a pep rally for some Amiga user group. The comp.sys.amiga.* hierarchy is out there somewhere, for those who need to post such meaningless drivel. #undef flame It would be much more useful, IMHO, to take up issues such as the following: * is a multimedia interface really useful for projects of type Z on system X? * the establishment of a list of Frequently Asked Questions about multimedia implementation * what multimedia formats are currently handled with existing software, and on what machines? (If there were a periodic list, as on comp.compression and comp.graphics, that would be useful.) * kludges for exchanging multimedia mail between system A, system S, system N, and so on... ----- John B. Melby Fujitsu Limited, Machida, Japan melby%yk.fujitsu.co.jp@fai.com
cwpjr@cbnewse.att.com (clyde.w.jr.phillips) (05/31/91)
In article <jcb.675560446@lupine>, jcb@NCD.COM (Jim Becker) writes: > valentin@btr.BTR.COM (Valentin Pepelea valentin@btr.com) writes: > > In article <754@goblin.ntg.com> rjmical@ntg.com (R.J. Mical) writes: > > > >I think the Amiga is the best computer in the known universe. > > Yeah, but ghosts from the past keep haunting it. > > Valentin > > > Boo! > > What other old Amiga spooks are still out there? Hey, I was doing MM > five years ago on this thang! Still great for it.. still the machine > of the future. [always has been, always will be.. :-)] > > -Jim > -- > > -- > -Jim Becker / jcb@ncd.com / Network Computing Devices, Inc. (NCD) Thanks, For Asking. I bundled a coupla thousand A1000's as (seemingly) CA's first VAR. I had to explain to them that I was selling Scientific and Medical Instruments, not Amiga's, per se. 8^) Clyde -- #-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#--#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-##-Not even the smart cookies know how they will crumble - Wisom of the Cookies-##-Clyde W. Phillips Jr. FORTH plan Amiga Man Dead Fan Chicago Born GO BULLS!!!-##-South Shore Hyde Park NewTown Wicker Park Rogers Park Evanston I BEEN AROUND-##-Reach out to me at clyde@ihlpl.att.com or (708) 713-5365w or (708) 386-3147h-##-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#--#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#
rblewitt@sdcc6.ucsd.edu (Richard Blewitt) (06/01/91)
In article <MELBY.91May31014312@daffy.yk.Fujitsu.CO.JP> melby@daffy.yk.Fujitsu.CO.JP (John B. Melby) writes: ><comments about Amiga omitted> >#define flame >This newsgroup is starting to look like a pep rally for some Amiga user >group. The comp.sys.amiga.* hierarchy is out there somewhere, for those >who need to post such meaningless drivel. >#undef flame Well, thats because there are only ~20 comp.sys.amiga.* groups out there, so we need to take over a few more :) >It would be much more useful, IMHO, to take up issues such as the >following: > >* is a multimedia interface really useful for projects of type Z on > system X? When people ask them, they get asnwered. Ask away if you have questions. >* the establishment of a list of Frequently Asked Questions about multimedia > implementation Hard to do, since I don't think I've seen the same question asked twice. >* what multimedia formats are currently handled with existing software, and > on what machines? (If there were a periodic list, as on comp.compression > and comp.graphics, that would be useful.) >* kludges for exchanging multimedia mail between system A, system S, > system N, and so on... These would definately be good things to add to this group. And it would make productive use of the bandwidth for a change. Rick _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________.sig____________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ The generic .sig Rick Blewitt rblewitt@ucsd.edu
jonwd@milton.u.washington.edu (Jon Wiederspan) (06/11/91)
LETS DROP ALL OF THE AMIGA:NEXT PENIS ENVY CRAP! This is a channel for discussions of multimedia itself. Discussions of platform comparisions are only appropriate if it involves limitations placed on a proposed project. Does anyone out there have some RELEVANT questions/answers? I'm pretty disgusted with this newsgroup so far. By the way, arcTANgent; Haven't you got any friends to play with? Probably not if all you do is brag about your Amiga. Now for a REAL question: I've been doing some silly little animations in Macromind Director 2.0 (making more interesting startups for my hypermedia applications). I heard there's a new version out that may have enough power to do some- thing really serious with it. However, Apple just announced it's QuickTime stuff as well and I can only budget for one of the packages. Does anyone have some experiences with either (preferably both) of these? Also, Digidesign is sending out notices of an upgrade to their Audiomedia application. Any idea whether the upgrade is worth getting? I don't use any external tape decks or synthesizers, so I don't think added functions in those areas will be much use to me. Thanks VERY much for any useful information.
osborn@ux1.lbl.gov (James R Osborn) (06/12/91)
In article <1991Jun11.143911.11688@milton.u.washington.edu> jonwd@milton.u.washington.edu (Jon Wiederspan) writes: >LETS DROP ALL OF THE AMIGA:NEXT PENIS ENVY CRAP! > >This is a channel for discussions of multimedia itself. Discussions of >platform comparisions are only appropriate if it involves limitations >placed on a proposed project. Does anyone out there have some RELEVANT >questions/answers? I'm pretty disgusted with this newsgroup so far. > >By the way, arcTANgent; Haven't you got any friends to play with? >Probably not if all you do is brag about your Amiga. I agree. I happen to be a Mac user and I think it's better than alot of other stuff out there. That doesn't mean I have to go around bashing other platforms. Besides if the !@#$%^&* Amiga is !@#$%^&* hot, then why hasn't it dominated the market? Maybe the Amiga marketing dweebs are as big a jerks as arcTANgent... > > [...] > >Thanks VERY much for any useful information. Sorry *THIS* isn't useful information, just moral support. -- James Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory osborn@ux1.lbl.gov
mcc@moscom.UUCP (Mike Corbett) (06/13/91)
In article <14192@dog.ee.lbl.gov> osborn@ux1.lbl.gov (James R Osborn) writes: > Besides if the !@#$%^&* Amiga is >!@#$%^&* hot, then why hasn't it dominated the market? Maybe the >Amiga marketing dweebs are as big a jerks as arcTANgent... You mean the Amiga isn't dominating the Video/Multimedia market? -- /// /// "Only Amiga Makes It Possible!" mcc@moscom.com \\\ /// \XXX/ "On the other hand, you have different fingers..." Steven Wright
manes@vger.nsu.edu ((Mark D. Manes), Norfolk State University) (06/13/91)
In article <14192@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, osborn@ux1.lbl.gov (James R Osborn) writes: > In article <1991Jun11.143911.11688@milton.u.washington.edu> jonwd@milton.u.washington.edu (Jon Wiederspan) writes: >>LETS DROP ALL OF THE AMIGA:NEXT PENIS ENVY CRAP! >> >>This is a channel for discussions of multimedia itself. Discussions of >>platform comparisions are only appropriate if it involves limitations >>placed on a proposed project. Does anyone out there have some RELEVANT >>questions/answers? I'm pretty disgusted with this newsgroup so far. >> Which by the way; includes the multimedia machine -- Amiga. >>By the way, arcTANgent; Haven't you got any friends to play with? >>Probably not if all you do is brag about your Amiga. > > I agree. I happen to be a Mac user and I think it's better than > alot of other stuff out there. That doesn't mean I have to go > around bashing other platforms. Besides if the !@#$%^&* Amiga is > !@#$%^&* hot, then why hasn't it dominated the market? Maybe the > Amiga marketing dweebs are as big a jerks as arcTANgent... > You didn't have too.... and yet you did! Strange logic. I think you can look at the above message and then understand why so many Amiga people are the way they are. You immediately start talking about marketshare and downplay the Amiga because it doesn't have it. I suspect that if you are talking 'multimedia' you might find that the Amiga does have marketshare, though I don't have the numbers to back the claim. With a group like comp.multimedia, you _will_ hear about the Amiga. Get used to it, it may open your formally closed eyes. Amiga's and Amiga owners are here to stay. :-) The Amiga _does have_ very powerful multimedia capabilities. That is the undeniable truth. Lets try to keep marketshare discussions in the .advocacy groups. On the other side, I will have to read about Macromind on the Mac, and the wonders of the various pieces of software for the PC. I, as the rest of the amiga community should, keep an open mind. The point is... be open to suggestion. Marketshare has nothing to do with capability, never has had anything to do with it, and it never will. > -- James > Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory > osborn@ux1.lbl.gov -mark= +--------+ ================================================== | \/ | Mark D. Manes "The Most lopsided deal since ..." | /\ \/ | manes@vger.nsu.edu | / | (804) 683-2532 "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA" +--------+ ================================================== "I protest Captain! I am not a merry man!" - Lt. Worf
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (06/14/91)
Wow... A wally from Washington dosent like seeing someone proud of their machine. Oh well.. IVe seen your Mac, and it dosent impress me. IBM users, for instance, are impressed easilly.. Because theyre used to antiquity. Sue me for putting it terms you, and others can understand. "The old in-and-out". Arctangent \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Flicker turns me on. -BJP | Get back into the SeX PiSToLs if you program in Arctangent, Naperville IL. | C. It helps. // ---------------------------- \X/ A M I G A ! \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (06/14/91)
Yah know, I >was< going to honor the decision to quiet the NeXT/Amiga fight, (AS PROPOSED 2 WEEKS AGO), but it seems a few Oxy-Infested la-bore-atory freekz have chosen to pick it up again.. The AMiga hasnt dominated the market for several reasons: For one, the public is generally ignorant. IBM's are obviously inferior to both NeXT, Amiga, and Mac. But people buy them anyways. FOr every idiot who makes a bad decision, and finds merit in it, hell go off and tell someone else to do the same.. That other person, being a moron as well, is lead to believe that IBM is the one and only. Wrong. So the prepetual cycle of ignorance continues to this day. For me, theres no difference between a user who goes out and gets an IBM, from a person who has the intelligence to purchase a Coleco Adam. A bad decision is a bad decision. Period. Ive used your platform, my platform, and one of the "high-end" EISA towers at work, and there pretty much is a clear winner. As for NeXT, Ive never used one to any lengthy degree, but I can say that its overpriced, and undersupported. Dosent take a BS in Comp Sci to figure THAT out.. Hell, my mom could tell you NeXT's werent worth it. My advice to you is to pick up an Amiga sometimes. You seem ill-informed. Theh mabye youll stop your >>>>>NeXT/Amiga whining. Wise up, PLEASE. Save me the typing. Arc PS... As mentioned before, shoot me for knowing my system is an incredible machine. Never degraded your Mac, did I? Will kiss your scientific-rump if you can pull a feed where it shows I have. \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Flicker turns me on. -BJP | Get back into the SeX PiSToLs if you program in Arctangent, Naperville IL. | C. It helps. // ---------------------------- \X/ A M I G A ! \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
rdippold@capri.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) (06/16/91)
In article <arctngnt.6418@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: > > >Yah know, I >was< going to honor the decision to quiet the NeXT/Amiga fight, >(AS PROPOSED 2 WEEKS AGO), but it seems a few Oxy-Infested la-bore-atory >freekz have chosen to pick it up again.. >[Continues fight he began a few days back with another nasty post] And if the pattern holds, the next thing you'll do is go to the Amiga group and express amazement that people seem to think that Amiga users are incredibly arrogant antisocial assholes. Yeah, you're really helping the cause. Just what we need to promote the Amiga. -- Standard disclaimer applies, you legalistic hacks. | Ron Dippold
jcb@NCD.COM (Jim Becker) (06/18/91)
I hesitate to get involved in this, but here goes...
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes:
The AMiga hasnt dominated the market for several reasons: For one,
the public is generally ignorant. IBM's are obviously inferior to
both NeXT, Amiga, and Mac. But people buy them anyways. FOr every
idiot who makes a bad decision, and finds merit in it, hell go off
and tell someone else to do the same.. That other person, being a
moron as well, is lead to believe that IBM is the one and only.
Wrong.
No -- you are wrong. The problem has been with the parent company,
Commodore Business Machines. The technology is great, and has been
great, for six years. However, CBM has not nurtured the machine, and
has in fact created the rut into which the Amiga has languished.
There were many people working for the success of the Amiga for years,
some of them doing Multimedia (myself included). Over time developers
got frustrated at the antics and lack of support from the parent
company for their own machine. Hence most all of the original Amiga
zealots and supporters have changed over the years, replaced by those
that know nothing of the history of the machine - and why it's where
it is today.
There continue to be waves of Amiga zealots, and there should be for
the capability of the machine. However you will grow up and understand
why the NeXT has a true chance of success for Multimedia, and the
Amiga doesn't. "Capability" and "potential" don't make the machine --
success is a lot more complex than mere technical prowess and facts.
So the prepetual cycle of ignorance continues to this day.
[ ... ]
As for NeXT, Ive
never used one to any lengthy degree, but I can say that its overpriced, and
undersupported. Dosent take a BS in Comp Sci to figure THAT out.. Hell, my mom
could tell you NeXT's werent worth it.
Well, your statement is self descriptive - it would seem.. :-)
My advice to you is to pick up an Amiga sometimes. You seem ill-informed. Theh
mabye youll stop your >>>>>NeXT/Amiga whining.
There are plenty of used ones available on the network.. I sold mine for $200.
BTW -- there are plenty of spell checkers on non-Amiga computers..
-Jim
--
--
-Jim Becker / jcb@ncd.com / Network Computing Devices, Inc. (NCD)manes@vger.nsu.edu ((Mark D. Manes), Norfolk State University) (06/19/91)
In article <jcb.677187914@lupine>, jcb@NCD.COM (Jim Becker) writes: > I hesitate to get involved in this, but here goes... > > arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: > > [Overzealous Arctngnt posting deleted] > > No -- you are wrong. The problem has been with the parent company, > Commodore Business Machines. The technology is great, and has been > great, for six years. However, CBM has not nurtured the machine, and > has in fact created the rut into which the Amiga has languished. > I have been a Amiga supporter since 1985. I have watched Commodore change and grow from essentially a wreck to a real computer company. I am so tired of the 'Commodore' bashing. Yes, they could spend more on advertising, and yes, overall the company could be managed better, but they _have_ nurtured the machine. Remember, management approves of the work done by engineering. The management of Commodore have not screwed up the Amiga technology. In fact, it has been improved. Consider the Amiga 3000! > There were many people working for the success of the Amiga for years, > some of them doing Multimedia (myself included). Over time developers > got frustrated at the antics and lack of support from the parent > company for their own machine. Hence most all of the original Amiga > zealots and supporters have changed over the years, replaced by those > that know nothing of the history of the machine - and why it's where > it is today. Can you give a decent example of support that you expect that you did not get or is not available now? CATS has been very supportive of my efforts. > > There continue to be waves of Amiga zealots, and there should be for > the capability of the machine. However you will grow up and understand > why the NeXT has a true chance of success for Multimedia, and the > Amiga doesn't. "Capability" and "potential" don't make the machine -- > success is a lot more complex than mere technical prowess and facts. > Giggle... Let me see if I understand what you are saying. You are saying that because of Commodore management that people are going to rush to the NeXT for their multimedia needs? I kinda doubt it. I suspect that all that will happen is that Bill Gate's nightmare that he calls 'multimedia' will get accepted by the blind masses. Everytime I think about the MMPC I simply want to toss my cookies. The NeXT is in the same position as Commodore. The NeXT does not run MS/DOS, it has its own idea of a windowing system, and frankly has just as bad marketing practices. Now lets consider the machine: NeXT has a 'bastard' machine that costs too much and is not supported enough to make people say "Yes, the NeXT is the solution", instead they are saying "At this price, why not buy a Sun?" Don't start singing 'educational discount' as the people that will use multimedia for commercial uses will not qualify for this discount. I think Commodore has carefully put the A3000 in the position so that the question of "Why not buy a Sun?" is not asked. NeXT has missed the concept of 'value for the dollar' and that is not surprising considering the heritage of management. > > So the prepetual cycle of ignorance continues to this day. > That we agree on. > [ ... ] > > My advice to you is to pick up an Amiga sometimes. You seem ill-informed. Theh > mabye youll stop your >>>>>NeXT/Amiga whining. > > There are plenty of used ones available on the network.. I sold mine for $200. I see your true colors show. You are a ex-A1000 owner. That explains a lot of your message. I also have a A1000, and had it since 1985. It is a nice machine. I certainly will admit that the A1000 did not see the same support that the rest of the Amiga line has. Take another look, the Commodore of 1986 does not exist anymore. > > -- > -- > -Jim Becker / jcb@ncd.com / Network Computing Devices, Inc. (NCD) -mark= +--------+ ================================================== | \/ | Mark D. Manes "The Most lopsided deal since ..." | /\ \/ | manes@vger.nsu.edu | / | (804) 683-2532 "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA" +--------+ ================================================== "I protest Captain! I am not a merry man!" - Lt. Worf