manjit@digigw.digital.co.jp (Manjit Bedi) (03/01/91)
Hello, I thought this might be good place to post a message regarding putting amiga graphics on video. Currently, I have an Amiga 3000, DPIII, Disney Animation Studio, Imagine, Sony Handycam TR75 ( Japanese market model) 8mm and I plan to buy a VHS VTR. I am wondering how other people have been putting things like animation on video. I would possibly buy something like a Toaster in the future when the 3000 is supported but at the moment I would like to be able to do a reasonable job of putting graphcs on video. I don't need to overlay graphics over live video at the moment but intermix video and animation on a VHS tape possibly. I have heard about RGB encoders but I need some more information regarding the quality of their output and cost. As well I would like some opinions on VTR's: S-VHS, Hi 8, how many erase heads, features that are useful for handling computer generated graphics ... I new in the game and I would like to put together at least a reasonable setup to experiment with. I would really love to hear what other people have been up to. Thanks in advance.
tucker@tahoe.unr.edu (Aaron Tucker) (03/03/91)
If you are going to be doing any type of high quality graphics with a ray-tracing package like IMAGINE, you should get three things: 1) An industrial grade VTR that is accurate to a single frame. You don't really need a single frame controller to put down animations onto tape. Just load up the frame, record it onto tape for two frames, back up one, then repeat the process for each frame. Remember, a hires 24 bitplane image takes up between 300k and 1.4MB, depending upon the complexity and file format used. 2) A 24bitplane display board with a paintbox(software) that is real-time 24bit RGB! This means either a Colorburst, Firecracker24, or a Harlequin board. HAM, or regular HIRES just doesn't cut it anymore. 3) A removable media hard/optical drive. The popular brands are: Syquest, Ricoh, Bernoulli for hard drives. I am not sure for optical. You might call XETEC and find out what they are using. Juan Trevino "Anything else would be unprofessional."
mark@calvin..westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) (03/05/91)
In article <5665@tahoe.unr.edu> tucker@tahoe.unr.edu (Aaron Tucker) writes: >If you are going to be doing any type of high quality graphics with a >ray-tracing package like IMAGINE, you should get three things: > >1) An industrial grade VTR that is accurate to a single frame. You don't >really need a single frame controller to put down animations onto tape. >Just load up the frame, record it onto tape for two frames, back up one, >then repeat the process for each frame. You would be nearly crazy to try to do this. At 30 frames per second you will cost yourself more pain and frustration than the savings could ever be worth. >2) A 24bitplane display board with a paintbox(software) that is real-time >24bit RGB! This means either a Colorburst, Firecracker24, or a >Harlequin board. I can't speak for the Harlequin board because it is not available in the US but neither the Colorburst or Firecracker24 support composite or component NTSC output so you will not be able to videotape from them without extra costly hardware. >3) A removable media hard/optical drive. The popular brands are: > Syquest, Ricoh, Bernoulli for hard drives. > I am not sure for optical. You might call XETEC and find out >what they are using. In a professional system, I wouldn't waste my time with these tiny little hard drives. A thiry second 24bit animation can easily chew up 640 Meg. If cost were an issue, I would get the largest hard drive I could afford and use 250M 1/4" streaming tape for portability of data. Otherwise, the Ricoh rewritable 600 Meg magneto-optical drive from XETEC would do nicely at $3600. >"Anything else would be unprofessional." Alright, time to fes up....you don't really do this professionally do you? :-) %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com % % ' Image ` ...!{decvax,uunet}!masscomp!mark % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gord_Wait@mindlink.UUCP (Gord Wait) (03/05/91)
What about 8mm or dat tape drives? (Are they not yet supported on amigas?) Sure the 1/4 screaming tape drives are cheap, but the hi-density tapes cost well over $50.00 last time I bought some. Our Sun network where I work has an Exabyte scsi 8mm tape backup, which cost about $3000-$4000 bucks, but you can put 2 gigabytes on a $6.00 tape that you buy at a video shop. Gord Wait
mark@calvin..westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) (03/07/91)
In article <4995@mindlink.UUCP> Gord_Wait@mindlink.UUCP (Gord Wait) writes: >What about 8mm or dat tape drives?(Are they not yet supported on amigas?) Sure >the 1/4 screaming tape drives are cheap, but the hi-density tapes cost well >over $50.00 last time I bought some. Our Sun network where I work has an >Exabyte scsi 8mm tape backup, which cost about $3000-$4000 bucks, but you can >put 2 gigabytes on a $6.00 tape that you buy at a video shop. I believe I have heard of people using 8mm or dat tape drives on the Amiga, but if it is supported, it is not very common. The reason I mentioned the 1/4" screaming tape was because it is relatively cheap and it is VERY portable. 1/4" cartridge tape has to be one of the most common archive formats around and would allow you to dump your data onto many many different systems. This is really nice if you have to get an animation to a studio or a LARGE image to a print services place. The Exabytes are nice. Where I used to work we would back up our entire Apollo CAD network on a single tape. However, they are not very common and ofcourse moderately expensive. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com % % ' Image ` ...!{decvax,uunet}!masscomp!mark % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
neil@celia.UUCP (Neil Richmond) (03/09/91)
In article <5665@tahoe.unr.edu> tucker@tahoe.unr.edu (Aaron Tucker) writes: >If you are going to be doing any type of high quality graphics with a >ray-tracing package like IMAGINE, you should get three things: If you want to do animation, in a reasonable amount of time I wouldn't recommend a rendering program that does any kind of ray-tracing. I know this rules out most of what is available, but you do want to get this done in your lifetime, right?:-) There are some packages that use scanline type algorithms for rendering and they will be about 10-30x faster than a ray- tracer with the same features. In a scanline type renderer, the thing that will really slow you down is transparency. But with a scanline renderer, you could almost live without an accelerator, but you will really want one of these too. >1) An industrial grade VTR that is accurate to a single frame. You don't >really need a single frame controller to put down animations onto tape. >Just load up the frame, record it onto tape for two frames, back up one, >then repeat the process for each frame. Remember, a hires 24 bitplane >image takes up between 300k and 1.4MB, depending upon the complexity >and file format used. Now this is a real problem for the home animator. Because, by the time you have bought all the things you need to shoot on video, you will probably have spent 10-20,000 dollars. I have never seen anything recorded to tape in real time that looked good. You really need a single frame system. A possible solution to this problem is 1) Find some kind video house that will allow you to hook up your system to theirs and allow you to shoot your video and not take every cent you have or 2) find a cheap 16mm camera like a Bolex and hook it up to your computer and shoot off the screen. This can look surprisingly good and with a film finish, you might be able to get your film into film festivals or siggraph and win all kinds of accolades and earn very little money because no one pays much money for short films:-) Whew! You can find Bolex cameras for about $100 and 100ft of 16mm film costs about $20.00 to develop. You can later find a place to transfer it to video if you want it there. Not a perfect solution, but it works. 3) Another possibility is to by a Panasonic Optical Disc recorder. I think the one we use here cost about $12,000 new. It records 12 minutes per disc, but the quality is not broadcast by any means. You would still need a genlock, but I don't think you would need a time base corrector. I think they have an RS-232 port on the back, as well. They might be hard to find now as the one we have has been replaced by a more expensive model. >2) A 24bitplane display board with a paintbox(software) that is real-time >24bit RGB! This means either a Colorburst, Firecracker24, or a >Harlequin board. HAM, or regular HIRES just doesn't cut it anymore. Yeah! >3) A removable media hard/optical drive. The popular brands are: > Syquest, Ricoh, Bernoulli for hard drives. > I am not sure for optical. You might call XETEC and find out >what they are using. Why is a removeable media necessary? Any large disk should do. >"Anything else would be unprofessional." No comment. neil -- Only 3221 shopping days left till the next millenium! Neil F. Richmond INTERNET: celia!neil@usc.edu Rhythm & Hues Inc. UUCP: ...{ames,hplabs}!lll-tis!celia!neil)