ACPS1072@RYERSON <ACPS1072@Ryerson.CA> (03/09/91)
Greetings,
After reading all the nice things people have had to say about the
Toaster, Colorburst, and DCTV, I would like to ask...
Is any information given out in terms of writing applications for
the above neat-o items? (ie. The Colorburst supposedly has a developer's
If so, where can I get a hold of such info, and if possible how much will
it cost me.
The answers to the above questions will determine which one I will buy.
What good is something no one can write things for? Especially the
small guy.
Ps. I'll be using this hardware for my thesis so any quick response is much
appreciated. Tanx in advance.
Derek Lang<<<<< ?
ACPS1072@RYERSON ? "There are two sides to every story...
Toronto, ON ? ...and inside and an outside."
Canada ? - Mr.Xhrlaser@crash.cts.com (Harv Laser) (03/13/91)
In article <91068.142839ACPS1072@Ryerson.CA> ACPS1072@Ryerson.CA (ACPS1072@RYERSON) writes: >Greetings, > > After reading all the nice things people have had to say about the >Toaster, Colorburst, and DCTV, I would like to ask... > > Is any information given out in terms of writing applications for >the above neat-o items? (ie. The Colorburst supposedly has a developer's > >If so, where can I get a hold of such info, and if possible how much will >it cost me. > As far as DCTV is concerned, it comes with utterly NO programming information and in fact, Digital Creations (its maker) is not currently even giving out the DCTV "display" file format... so folks like Perry at ASDG cannot even write a "loader/saver" module for DCTV format files for his Art Dept. Professional. I know some very talented people who would love to write their own DCTV programs but Digital's reluctance to give out their file format is keeping them from doing so for the time being. disclaimer: I'm a DCTV owner. I think it's a real nifty device. I have a ball using it. But I agree with those who would like to see Digital release the file format so other developers could make use of it. Harv Laser {anywhere}!crash!hrlaser "Park and lock it. Not responsible." People/Link: CBM*HARV
amgreene@athena.mit.edu (Andrew Marc Greene) (03/14/91)
In article <7966@crash.cts.com> hrlaser@crash.cts.com (Harv Laser) writes: >In article <91068.142839ACPS1072@Ryerson.CA> ACPS1072@Ryerson.CA (ACPS1072@RYERSON) writes: >> After reading all the nice things people have had to say about the >>Toaster, Colorburst, and DCTV, I would like to ask... >> >> Is any information given out in terms of writing applications for >>the above neat-o items? >> >As far as DCTV is concerned, it comes with utterly NO programming >information and in fact, Digital Creations (its maker) is not currently >even giving out the DCTV "display" file format.[] I know some very talented >people who would love to write their own DCTV programs but Digital's >reluctance to give out their file format is keeping them from doing so >for the time being. > >disclaimer: I'm a DCTV owner. I think it's a real nifty device. I have >a ball using it. But I agree with those who would like to see Digital >release the file format so other developers could make use of it. > Ditto for the Toaster. I love it, and AREXX is OK for programming ``Do this effect, wait 3 seconds, trigger the character generator,'' but I can't do what I really want because NewTek isn't releasing programmer's info. -- Andrew <amgreene@mit.edu> | .sigs are for people with bandwidth to burn
rjc@geech.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (03/14/91)
Colorburst developer source code can be found on MAST's BBS at 702-359-0132. HAM-E information can be obtained from BlackBelt's BBS at 406-367-2227. DCTV and NewTek are keeping their file formats secret. If you want info on these too bad enough, disassemble their conversion software. You can probably deduce their format readily from that.
cs326ag@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Loren J. Rittle) (03/14/91)
In article <13951@life.ai.mit.edu> rjc@geech.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: >Colorburst developer source code can be found on MAST's BBS at >702-359-0132. > >HAM-E information can be obtained from BlackBelt's BBS at 406-367-2227. > >DCTV and NewTek are keeping their file formats secret. If you want >info on these too bad enough, disassemble their conversion software. You >can probably deduce their format readily from that. Does anyone know why NewTek and DC are keeping their file formats secret?!? It makes no sense to me, unless they have something to hide! :-) Loren J. Rittle -- ``NewTek stated that the Toaster *would* *not* be made to directly support the Mac, at this point Sculley stormed out of the booth...'' --- A scene at the recent MacExpo. Gee, you wouldn't think that an Apple Exec would be so worried about one little Amiga device... Loren J. Rittle l-rittle@uiuc.edu
lcc727@unhd.unh.edu (Layton C Cote) (03/15/91)
Could someone please email me a description of these peripherals too? Unless an indepth comparison is finally posted by someone for the net. I am particularly interested in the Firecracker vs. Colorburst, as I am getting a Colorburst as soon as i see one. Thank you... -Layton lcc727@unhd
jmarvin@.oracle.com (John W. Marvin) (03/15/91)
In article <1991Mar14.022053.6170@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> cs326ag@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Loren J. Rittle) writes: > >Does anyone know why NewTek and DC are keeping their file formats >secret?!? It makes no sense to me, unless they have something to >hide! :-) >Loren J. Rittle >-- Yes. If you make a file format public, you are stuck with it. You can't change it w/o breaking all those other products. I belive NewTek & DC support IFF 24 (which, IMHO is fairly brain dead, All the red zero bits for eight pixels in one byte!?!), so they do support access to their images. ******************************************************************* * John W. S. Marvin * There are times when the wolves * * Oracle Multimedia Development * are silent, and the moon is * * jmarvin@oracle.com * howling... * *******************************************************************
bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com (Bob Lindabury, SysAdmin) (03/15/91)
In-Reply-To: message from hrlaser@crash.cts.com
Re: No file format info for conversions from DCTV box...
Hmm..I was under the assumption that it would save out 24-bit IFF files?
Am I mistaken? If it saves 24-bit IFF's, then there is no need for the
internal DCTV format, no?
I was hoping to get DCTV as a Paintbox front-end to the Toaster since
ToasterPaint is next to worthless.
-- Bob
______ Pro-Graphics BBS "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!" ________
UUCP: crash!pro-graphics!bobl | Pro-Graphics: 908/469-0049
Internet: bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com | PC-Pursuitable: NJNBR
FastInet: bobl@bobsbox.rent.com | America Online: Graphics3d
_________ ___________
Raven Enterprises 25 Raven Avenue Piscataway, NJ 08854 Harvey_Taylor@mindlink.UUCP (Harvey Taylor) (03/15/91)
In <1991Mar14.183305.11387@unhd.unh.edu>, lcc727@unhd.unh.edu (Layton C Cote) writes: |Could someone please email me a description of these peripherals too? |Unless an indepth comparison is finally posted by someone for the net. | Okay here is a repost of a Richard Tillery doc from last December. Can anybody fill in some of the holes here? --- Repost of <1990Dec7.194258.16221@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu>, by drtiller@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Donald Richard Tillery Jr) >OK, folks, I made a boo-boo last week when I mentioned the resolutions of >DCTV. As penance I've compiled as much information as I could about the 24 >bit boards that are out there for the Amiga. The following is as much >info as I was able to obtain (long distance phonecalls included). If >anything is incorrect or you can fill in my blanks, let me know via e-mail >(and I'll update this post) or the net so everyone will see. > > > > Commodore Amiga Extended Color Board Comparisons > ------------------------------------------------ > > > Toaster DCTV ColorBurst HAM-E A2140 Firecracker 24 > ------- ---- ---------- ----- ----- -------------- >Vendor (NewTek) (Digital (M.A.S.T) (Black (Commodore) (Impulse) > Creations) Belt) > > 1 1 2 3 4 >Highest Res. 768x480 736x480 768x560 384x480 1024x1024 1024x480 > 1 1 5 6 >Onscreen colors 16.7 M 16.7 M 16.7 M 256/256K 256+3 16.7 M > >Palette size 16.7 M 16.7 M 16.7 M 16.7 M 16.7 M 16.7 M > 7 8,9 7 9 ># of framebuffers 2 r 1 r ? 1 > 10 >Compatible Amigas 2x000 All All All 2x00/3x00 2x00/3x00 > >NTSC/PAL NTSC NTSC NTSC NTSC/PAL ? NTSC > 11 11 >Output format comp. comp. RGB RGB ? RGB > >Overlay Yes No Yes No ? Yes >Animation No Yes Yes Yes ? No >On-board effects Yes No Yes No ? No >Framegrabber Yes Yes No No ? No >Live Video Effects Yes No No No ? No > >Software included 12 > Paint Yes Yes Yes Yes ? No > Conversion Yes Yes Yes Yes ? Yes > Effect control Yes N/A Yes N/A ? N/A > 3-D render Yes No No No ? No > > 13 14 >Shipping Yes No No Yes No Yes > > >Price $1495 $495 $495 $399 ? $1595 > > > > >NOTES: > Commodore's A2410 info is preliminary and is not complete or official. > > 1. Subject to limitation of composite output resolutions and colors. > 2. 768x480 in NTSC mode. > 3. Including "Magic Cookie" code line above image. > 4. Special monitor required for highest resolutions (above 800x600). > 5. Normal/Extended HAM modes. > 6. 256 colors plus 3 overlay colors. > 7. Dependent on computer chip memory. > 8. Expandable from 1.5 to 8 megs of on-board memory. > 9. More frames in reduced resolutions/colors. > 10. Will fit into 3000 with a blowtorch (not included). > 11. Shipping to registered owners in January. > 12. Composite video limits the palette to around 1/4 to 1/2 million > colors and horizontal resolution to around 350 pixels. > 13. Shipping around December 7, 1990. > 14. Shipping around first of January. > > >Rick Tillery >(drtiller@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu) > --- "Abstract words are ancient coins whose concrete images in the give and take of talk have worn away with use." -Julian Jaynes Harvey Taylor Meta Media Productions uunet!van-bc!rsoft!mindlink!Harvey_Taylor a186@mindlink.UUCP
a148@mindlink.UUCP (E. John Love) (03/15/91)
I believe that DCTV images are saved in a compressed video format, which is not the same as IFF24, and explains why the file sizes are smaller. As far as I know, you cannot load these compressed video format images directly into the Toaster. You'd probably have to re-capture them with the Toaster from DCTV's output signal. This is just speculation on my part tho...:)
jason@cbmami.UUCP (Jason Goldberg) (03/15/91)
In article <8000@crash.cts.com>, Bob Lindabury, SysAdmin writes: > In-Reply-To: message from hrlaser@crash.cts.com > > Re: No file format info for conversions from DCTV box... > > Hmm..I was under the assumption that it would save out 24-bit IFF files? > Am I mistaken? If it saves 24-bit IFF's, then there is no need for the > internal DCTV format, no? > > I was hoping to get DCTV as a Paintbox front-end to the Toaster since > ToasterPaint is next to worthless. > The DCTV software can read and write 24Bit IFF perfectly. We routinely use DCTV paint to prepare buffers for our Toaster. You will enjoy DCTV paint much more than toaster paint, not to mention that it requires far less overhead and gives you instant feedback. DCTV also has the ability to store pictures in its own DCTV format which is at this point proprietary. The advantage to the DCTV format is that AmigaDos thinks that the DCTV format is a 16 color hi-res overscan picture. So once you save an IFF-24bit picture in DCTV format: 1. It will be 75% smaller. 2. You can view it with any normal IFF file viewer, even load into DPIII! 3. You can create real-time 24-bit animations with the exact same speed and overhead of a 16 color hi-res picture. So we use DCTV both as our paint package for Toaster FrameStores and also for real-time 24-bit animation, when single frame recording is not needed. -Jason- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jason Goldberg UUCP: ucsd!serene!cbmami!jason Del Mar, CA
hrlaser@crash.cts.com (Harv Laser) (03/15/91)
In article <8000@crash.cts.com> bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com (Bob Lindabury, SysAdmin) writes: >In-Reply-To: message from hrlaser@crash.cts.com > >Re: No file format info for conversions from DCTV box... > >Hmm..I was under the assumption that it would save out 24-bit IFF files? >Am I mistaken? If it saves 24-bit IFF's, then there is no need for the >internal DCTV format, no? > >I was hoping to get DCTV as a Paintbox front-end to the Toaster since >ToasterPaint is next to worthless. > Yes, DCTV saves out in three formats: their own proprietary "display" format, which creates pictures about the same size a 16 color hi-res interlaced overscanned picture would be, their own "raw" format, about three times the filesize (used for quick saving and loading until they put an actual "undo" in the software"), and IFF24, producing the usual HUGE files. So it would do what you want. What people want to do is to save out in DCTV's "display" format and then convert those via something like ADPro to other formats, but that can't be done unless/until DC releases the specs to that format. But IFF24 output from DCTV is fully transportable like any one else's IFF24. And you're right.. DCTV Paint is really nice :) Harv Laser {anywhere}!crash!hrlaser "Park and lock it. Not responsible." People/Link: CBM*HARV
drew@cgou11.enet.dec.com (Steve Drew) (03/16/91)
In article <8000@crash.cts.com>, bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com (Bob Lindabury, SysAdmin) writes: >Hmm..I was under the assumption that it would save out 24-bit IFF files? >Am I mistaken? If it saves 24-bit IFF's, then there is no need for the >internal DCTV format, no? > It does read and write IFF24, RAW , and DCTVs own compresses format. The advantage of DCTVs format is that the file size is about 120K vs 800K for a large IFF24 pic. Also there is no loss in quality when viewing back the compressed format or IFF24 bit format under DCTV. But the DCTV format loads much quicker being so much smaller in size. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Steve Drew: drew%cgou11.enet@decwrl.dec.com Phone : 403-295-HELP ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
sschaem@starnet.uucp (Stephan Schaem) (03/17/91)
If you save in DCTV format, IFF format, hires 4 or 3 bitplane you loose 'alot' of color info for true 24 bit. You save in DCTV format for DCTV display and in the other two in export/import on other machine/device/programe... DCTV is like ham is to 12bit display! I dont have any info but I play around with it.(At home, I have one and would NOT exange it for any other display device...) I still find incredible to get that close to TV quality with so low color info per individual color! and Ham use 6bit for 12bit DCTV 4bit for 24bit! I wonder what could DCTV could do with 6bit to 12bit!?..
mark@calvin..westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) (03/18/91)
In article <5173@mindlink.UUCP> a148@mindlink.UUCP (E. John Love) writes: >I believe that DCTV images are saved in a compressed video format,which is not >the same as IFF24, and explains why the file sizes are smaller. As far as I >know, you cannot load these compressed video format images directly into the >Toaster. You'd probably have to re-capture them with the Toaster from DCTV's >output signal. DCTV saves in three basic formats: raw, display, and IFF24. Images saved in IFF24 can be directly loaded into the Toaster. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com % % ' Image ` ...!{decvax,uunet}!masscomp!mark % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bobl@graphics.rent.com (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm) (03/19/91)
hrlaser@crash.cts.com (Harv Laser) writes: > And you're right.. DCTV Paint is really nice :) It should be. It seems that the DCTV paint interface is very close to what you see on a Quantel Paintbox (you know, the one most Video graphics artists use and the one all the suits are about). In fact, the little paint viewing/mixing window is exactly the same as the Quantel mixing window. I doubt Quantel is worried about DCTV..who knows. <grin> -- Bob The Graphics BBS 908/469-0049 "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!" ============================================================================ InterNet: bobl@graphics.rent.com | Raven Enterprises UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl | 25 Raven Avenue BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc | Piscataway, NJ 08854 Home #: 908/560-7353 | 908/271-8878
bobl@graphics.rent.com (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm) (03/19/91)
drew@cgou11.enet.dec.com (Steve Drew) writes: > In article <8000@crash.cts.com>, bobl@pro-graphics.cts.com (Bob Lindabury, Sy > > >Hmm..I was under the assumption that it would save out 24-bit IFF files? > >Am I mistaken? If it saves 24-bit IFF's, then there is no need for the > >internal DCTV format, no? > > > > It does read and write IFF24, RAW , and DCTVs own compresses format. > > The advantage of DCTVs format is that the file size is about 120K > vs 800K for a large IFF24 pic. Also there is no loss in quality when > viewing back the compressed format or IFF24 bit format under DCTV. > > But the DCTV format loads much quicker being so much smaller in size. I realized all of the above (but wasn't sure on what formats it saved). The original question that I was replying to asked about conversions if I remember correctly. I figure that your best bet is to just convert from 24-bit IFF which is very easy to do at this point and you don't need the DCTV format. Once you convert your 24-bit IFF images, you will also have a nice small HAM or whatever image. BTW, I've saved several 24bit IFF images and they are not that large. 300K is nothing. Compared to TARGA and Toaster images which run in the >750K range, I'd say the IFF 24bit format is quite compact. -- Bob The Graphics BBS 908/469-0049 "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!" ============================================================================ InterNet: bobl@graphics.rent.com | Raven Enterprises UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl | 25 Raven Avenue BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc | Piscataway, NJ 08854 Home #: 908/560-7353 | 908/271-8878
manes@vger.nsu.edu ((Mark D. Manes), Norfolk State University) (03/20/91)
In article <1991Mar14.022053.6170@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, cs326ag@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Loren J. Rittle) writes: > In article <13951@life.ai.mit.edu> rjc@geech.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: >>Colorburst developer source code can be found on MAST's BBS at >>702-359-0132. >> >>HAM-E information can be obtained from BlackBelt's BBS at 406-367-2227. >> >>DCTV and NewTek are keeping their file formats secret. If you want >>info on these too bad enough, disassemble their conversion software. You >>can probably deduce their format readily from that. > > Does anyone know why NewTek and DC are keeping their file formats > secret?!? It makes no sense to me, unless they have something to I have wondered about this as well. I hope that they're just expanding the IFF standard and not trying to create yet one more standard. > hide! :-) > Loren J. Rittle > -- > ``NewTek stated that the Toaster *would* *not* be made to directly support > the Mac, at this point Sculley stormed out of the booth...'' --- A scene at > the recent MacExpo. Gee, you wouldn't think that an Apple Exec would be so > worried about one little Amiga device... Loren J. Rittle l-rittle@uiuc.edu -mark= +--------+ ================================================== | \/ | Mark D. Manes "Mr. AmigaVision, The 32 bit guy" | /\ \/ | manes@vger.nsu.edu | / | (804) 683-2532 "Make up your own mind! - AMIGA" +--------+ ==================================================
tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson) (03/21/91)
In article <1991Mar14.183305.11387@unhd.unh.edu- lcc727@unhd.unh.edu (Layton C Cote) writes:
-Could someone please email me a description of these peripherals too? Unless
-an indepth comparison is finally posted by someone for the net. I am
-particularly interested in the Firecracker vs. Colorburst, as I am
-getting a Colorburst as soon as i see one.
-
-Thank you...
-
--Layton
-lcc727@unhd
I'm especially interested in information about the FireCracker, can it
output a 30 kHz signal?
Tommy Petersson
tope@enea.semark@calvin..westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) (03/21/91)
In article <18d46ceb.ARN0f13@cbmami.UUCP> jason@cbmami.UUCP writes: >The DCTV software can read and write 24Bit IFF perfectly. We routinely use >DCTV paint to prepare buffers for our Toaster. >So we use DCTV both as our paint package for Toaster FrameStores and also >for real-time 24-bit animation, when single frame recording is not needed. Precisely why I bought DCTV. They complement one another wonderfully. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com % % ' Image ` ...!{decvax,uunet}!masscomp!mark % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
tucker@tahoe.unr.edu (Aaron Tucker) (03/21/91)
No, the Firecracker cannot output a 31kHz signal. It outputs a 15.75KHz signal out of the RGB port. Juan Trevino Modern Media tucker@tahoe.unr.edu
e._john_love@outbound.wimsey.bc.ca (E. John Love) (03/21/91)
Yes - shortly after posting that, I realized how wrong it was! I stand corrected - thanks! DCTV sounds, in general, like a great product, and well worth the $850.00 Canadian it's retailing for around town here in Vancouver, BC. e._john_love@outbound.wimsey.bc.ca
mark@masscomp.westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) (03/21/91)
In article <756.27e61650@vger.nsu.edu> manes@vger.nsu.edu ((Mark D. Manes), Norf olk State University) writes: >In article <1991Mar14.022053.6170@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, cs326ag@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu ( Loren J. Rittle) writes: >> Does anyone know why NewTek and DC are keeping their file formats >> secret?!? It makes no sense to me, unless they have something to hide. > >I have wondered about this as well. I hope that they're just expanding >the IFF standard and not trying to create yet one more standard. Well as stated before, the Toaster does use standard IFF24 image format. It also has its own Framestore format which is *specific* to the hardware. NewTek has stated that they do plan to release portions of the Toaster software library to enable developers to create third party software for the Toaster. They do not have anything to hide and they are not trying to create new standards. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com % % ' Image ` ...!{decvax,uunet}!masscomp!mark % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
mark@calvin..westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) (03/23/91)
In article <eNa3y3w164w@graphics.rent.com> bobl@graphics.rent.com (Bob Lindabury - SysAdm) writes: >BTW, I've saved several 24bit IFF images and they are not >that large. 300K is nothing. Compared to TARGA and Toaster images >which run in the >750K range, I'd say the IFF 24bit format is quite >compact. However, 24bit IFF size varies greatly depending on image complexity. I have created many 24bit IFFs that are over 850K. The Toaster Frame format is however a constant size (about 710K) regardless of complexity. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com % % ' Image ` ...!{decvax,uunet}!masscomp!mark % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~