hrlaser@crash.cts.com (Harv Laser) (03/14/91)
This seems like as good a group as any to post this :-) Todd Rundgren gave a two hour speech/presentation at the monthly meeting of the So. Calif. chapter of SIGGRAPH on 3/12/91. The meeting was held in an approx 300 seat auditorium at the Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena, CA. (SIGGRAPH has nothing to do with JPL other than a member works there and through this connection the hall was booked for this evening's meeting). The entire presntation given by Todd was taped and if and when an edit of the taping is made available publically I shall post relevant information on how to get it, however I was not involved in taping it and I have no information on getting a tape right now. Rundgren first had his "Change Myself" 4 minute music video shown on a large projection screen with a good sound system to rousing applause. (If you haven't seen it, it has been accepted by and is playing occasionally on the national "adult rock" cable TV music network "VH-1") He then went on for about 90 minutes to describe in great detail the process of creating the video, using ten Video Toaster equipped Amiga 2500/30s (and MANy large hard drives) over the course of five weeks. Todd Rundgren is a self-professed computer literate programmer and hacker and music writer and producer. However he ran into inumerable problems during the production of his LightWave 3D frames (over 7200 in all) for Change Myself and had some very unkind words to say about the Amiga, its operating system, hard drive support, networking (specifically lack of, according to him) and support he directly didn't get from Commodore. It was my impression that he had perhaps bit off more than he could chew by himself and that iif he had known or had hired some Amiga- literate professionals who knew about such things, his networking and hard drive problems would hvae been less of a burden to him. He did work directly with Allen Hastings many times to de-bug the Lightwave 3D software and have modifications made to it since no one had quite put it through this extensive a "test" before. He claimed to have tried every existing and available 3D object modeller on the Amiga and some random comments I remember from him went something along the lines of "Caligari - great interface, very professional, useless output"... "Forms in flight - horrible interface and hard to convert its object output but liked the way it used splines instead of triangles"... "Imagine - many of the objects in the video were made with its modeller"... "other objects were custom made by [forgot the guy's name] I hired and still others were purchased." (Parenthetically, if you have seen "Change Myself", check out the scene near the end with the rotating Aladdin's Lamp. That lamp was modelled about a year ago by Louis Markoya and was sold along with other Markoya objects on the "Woodland" objects disk for Turbo Silver, via Impulse, and later, in a separate package under Antic's label.) All in all it was an interesting evening despite Todd's apparent and verbose dislike of Amigas. Maybe he'll change his mind someday. By the way, "Change Myself" was produced at a cost of around $100,000. He originally wanted an animated-only video but Warner Bros., his record label, insisted that he appear in it, singing the song. Guess record companies insist on this factor in order to promote an artist with a video. So he took an S-VHS camera and himself into a dark room at his house and photographed himself eight times singing the song. The frames from the camera were then digitized and mapped, in LightWave, onto the tumbling,rotating, and morphing 3D objects. If you watch the video VERY closely you'll notice that the animation is moving at 30fps while the singing Todd face is doubled up from 15fps, achieving the kind of effect that a lot of tv and video producers are after these days. Still in all, when, after his presentation, he was asked by a member of the audience something to the effect of "If the Amiga was so difficult to use, why didn't you use some other platform" his answer was something to the effect that this same production could not have been created on any other platform for less than ten times what it cost to do it on Amigas with Toasters.
lemiller@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Lynne Miller) (03/15/91)
in the same vein, but not quite... does anyone know what sort of computer system and software brain eno used to produce the cover art to the cd he did recently with john cale? looking closely at it, it is a wonderful take off on the mandelbrot set, and i am very curious about it. -lynne
mark@calvin..westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) (03/15/91)
In article <7989@crash.cts.com> hrlaser@crash.cts.com (Harv Laser) writes: >So he took an S-VHS camera and himself into a dark room at his >house and photographed himself eight times singing the song. The >frames from the camera were then digitized and mapped, in LightWave, >onto the tumbling,rotating, and morphing 3D objects. If you watch the >video VERY closely you'll notice that the animation is moving at 30fps >while the singing Todd face is doubled up from 15fps. So are you saying that there are only 8 different frames of Todd singing or that he made 8 complete videos of himself singing? If he made complete videos and didn't just capture single frames, do you know how he digitized the image sequences from the videos which were to be mapped into Lightwave? The method that comes to mind to me would be to play back the video on a good industrial or better VCR capable of good quality single frame playback and frame grab the images one at a time with the Toaster. This is very tedious though. Also, what did he do to sync the rendered images to the music? %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com % % ' Image ` ...!{decvax,uunet}!masscomp!mark % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
jlange@oracle.com (Jim Lange) (03/15/91)
In article <61813@masscomp.westford.ccur.com> mark@calvin..westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) writes: In article <7989@crash.cts.com> hrlaser@crash.cts.com (Harv Laser) writes: >So he took an S-VHS camera and himself into a dark room at his >house and photographed himself eight times singing the song. The >frames from the camera were then digitized and mapped, in LightWave, >onto the tumbling,rotating, and morphing 3D objects. If you watch the >video VERY closely you'll notice that the animation is moving at 30fps >while the singing Todd face is doubled up from 15fps. So are you saying that there are only 8 different frames of Todd singing or that he made 8 complete videos of himself singing? If he made complete videos and didn't just capture single frames, do you know how he digitized the image sequences from the videos which were to be mapped into Lightwave? The method that comes to mind to me would be to play back the video on a good industrial or better VCR capable of good quality single frame playback and frame grab the images one at a time with the Toaster. This is very tedious though. Also, what did he do to sync the rendered images to the music? According to Allen Hastings (author of Lightwave), who showed and discussed the video at the last FAUG meeting, Todd transferred the video to a videodisk with a computer interface so he could access the frames accurately. Then he wrote an Arexx program to display every other frame and trigger the toaster to grab the frame and save it as a numbered file (is this guy multitalented, or what?). Then during rendering, the correct frame number was pulled in and mapped to an object insuring proper syncronization. The Amiga continues to amaze me--if I had not been told that this video was created using the Amiga + Toaster, I would not have believed it. Even Allen said, "I think I know how he did most of the effects." Jim Lange Oracle Corporation
hrlaser@crash.cts.com (Harv Laser) (03/15/91)
In article <61813@masscomp.westford.ccur.com> mark@calvin.westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) writes: >In article <7989@crash.cts.com> hrlaser@crash.cts.com (Harv Laser) writes: >>So he took an S-VHS camera and himself into a dark room at his >>house and photographed himself eight times singing the song. The >>frames from the camera were then digitized and mapped, in LightWave, >>onto the tumbling,rotating, and morphing 3D objects. If you watch the >>video VERY closely you'll notice that the animation is moving at 30fps >>while the singing Todd face is doubled up from 15fps. > >So are you saying that there are only 8 different frames of Todd singing >or that he made 8 complete videos of himself singing? If he made complete >videos and didn't just capture single frames, do you know how he digitized >the image sequences from the videos which were to be mapped into Lightwave? >The method that comes to mind to me would be to play back the video on >a good industrial or better VCR capable of good quality single frame playback >and frame grab the images one at a time with the Toaster. This is very >tedious though. Also, what did he do to sync the rendered images to the music? Yes, he taped himself singing the song 8 separate times. Sorry for my my cumbersome wording in my original post. He framegrabbed his image from the S-VHS tape with the Toaster's software. Syncing the rendered images to the music was another problem he encountered towards the end of the process... he admitted he hadn't given it a lot of thought beforehand and was quite lucky that it came out so perfectly synced since he hadn't rendered any extra or spare Lightwave 3D frames. Harv Laser {anywhere}!crash!hrlaser "Park and lock it. Not responsible." People/Link: CBM*HARV
mark@calvin..westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) (03/16/91)
>In article <7989@crash.cts.com> hrlaser@crash.cts.com (Harv Laser) writes: >>So he took an S-VHS camera and himself into a dark room at his >>house and photographed himself eight times singing the song. mark@calvin.westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) writes: >So are you saying that there are only 8 different frames of Todd singing >or that he made 8 complete videos of himself singing? >If he made complete videos and didn't just capture single frames, do >you know how he digitized the image sequences from the videos which >were to be mapped into Lightwave? Well I got the answer to this from NewTek about an hour after I posted the question, so I thought I would follow it up for anyone interested.... Todd recorded the entire animation using the new Sony recordable video disk unit (I think its something like LV5000) which lists for about $20K. This unit allows flawless single frame record and playback and has composite, component, and RGB video inputs. It is spectacular! Anyway, to digitize himself, he recorded himself singing on the Sony and then wrote an ARexx script to control the Sony and the Toaster. The Sony would bring up each frame one at a time and the Toaster would grab them and store them off to the hard disk. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com % % ' Image ` ...!{decvax,uunet}!masscomp!mark % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
baer@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Ken Baer) (03/22/91)
In article <8026@crash.cts.com> hrlaser@crash.cts.com (Harv Laser) writes: >In article <61813@masscomp.westford.ccur.com> mark@calvin.westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) writes: >>In article <7989@crash.cts.com> hrlaser@crash.cts.com (Harv Laser) writes: >>>So he took an S-VHS camera and himself into a dark room at his >>>house and photographed himself eight times singing the song. The >>>frames from the camera were then digitized and mapped, in LightWave, >>The method that comes to mind to me would be to play back the video on >>a good industrial or better VCR capable of good quality single frame playback >>and frame grab the images one at a time with the Toaster. This is very >>tedious though. > He framegrabbed his image from >the S-VHS tape with the Toaster's software. >Harv Laser {anywhere}!crash!hrlaser >"Park and lock it. Not responsible." People/Link: CBM*HARV I don't think he digitized direct from the S-VHS tape. If I understood Allen Hasting's descripion (on a PLink conference), Todd recorded video of him singing on S-VHS, then transfered that to his LaserDisc recorder. He then hooked a cable from his Amiga to the LD player, and ran a routine that advanced the disc by 1 frame (or maybe 2), and captured it in the Toaster's buffer. You could set up the whole process with AmigaVision and AREXX. But, I do believe that the laserdisc recorder/player played an integral role in this process. Otherwise is would have been VERY difficult to automate it. Had he done the process by hand, he would likely have ended up in a room with rubber wallpaper :-). -- // -Ken Baer. Programmer/Animator, Hash Enterprises / Earthling \X/ Usenet: baer@qiclab.UUCP or PLink: KEN BAER "What?!? Sore again?" -- Bugs Bunny to Yosemity Sam
nschultz@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (Ned W. Schultz) (03/23/91)
Does anyone have the details on the laserdisc recorder that Rundgren used for his video? I would appreciate any information anyone has on using a laserdisc machine for recording video. Wasn't there a place called Pixel Planet or something like that selling a machine for use with the Amiga? Laserdisc seems like a better way to go for a number of reasons, except perhaps that recording is relatively new. Anyone have some direct experience they could share? Ned Schultz nschultz@polyslo.calpoly.edu
mark@calvin..westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson) (03/28/91)
In article <27eb7075.629b@petunia.CalPoly.EDU> nschultz@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (Ned W. Schultz) writes: >Does anyone have the details on the laserdisc recorder that Rundgren used >for his video? I was told it was a Sony unit which must be the LVR-5000A / LVS-5000A system. It consists of two components, a video disk recorder/palyer and a signal processor. Each goes for about $10K and a single processor can be interfaced with up to 10 recorder/palyers. A single disk can record 24 minutes of contiuous video and audio or 43,500 NTSC frames per side. There is a PAL version which is the 6000 and an optional board for the 5000 which allows PAL record and playback. Here is a quick feature list: RS-232 port for computer control 0.5 second random access time Built in TBC PCM audio with 88dB dynamic range Noiseless playback at speeds from 1/255 to 3x normal in forward and reverse Composite, component (Y, R-Y, B-Y), and RGB inputs Composite, Y/C, component (Y, R-Y, B-Y), and RGB outputs 4.5MHz component color bandwith 6.7MHz bandwith in black and white mode 48 dB signal to noise Can genlock playback to VBS or SYNC input Uses 12" CAV mode laser disk Anyway, the output is VERY nice and vastly superior to the older video disk recorders like the 8" Panasonic. Believe it or not, none of the literature I have gives an address or phone number to contact and I don't have the card for my rep handy. If I had the capital available, this is the video disk recorder I would purchase. >Wasn't there a place called Pixel Planet or something like that selling a machine for use with the Amiga? Sounds familiar. I am almost certain they were selling the older 8" Panasonic units refurbished for around $5K. >Laserdisc seems like a better way to go for a number of reasons, >except perhaps that recording is relatively new. Anyone have some direct >experience they could share? It is much simpler but generally more expensive. I have seen the output from a number of units but I have no direct experience yet recording. However, I am rendering as we speak and will be recording the frames to a Teac video disk recorder next week using Lightwave with the Toaster. If your interested, I'll let ya know how it goes. %~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~% % ` ' Mark Thompson % % --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com % % ' Image ` ...!{decvax,uunet}!masscomp!mark % % Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 % % % ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~