tostan@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Stan Mohler (SVER)) (01/10/91)
I'm considering shopping for one of those "COOL" Amiga computers. I have been so impressed with the eloquence of some of these posts :-)) that I am asking someone to explain what the different Amigas are called, how their performances compare, and approximate prices. What's the diff between an Amiga 500, 1000, and 3000? Is there a 5000? The graphics are cool, but will the Amiga run flight simulators as smoothly as a PC-AT (whose flight sim performance is fair compared to a 386 I'm sure)? Will the Amiga accept a joy stick which has variable resistors instead of the silly click-switches that the C-64 is limited to? Thanks, *experts* ! +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stan Mohler Jr. <---------internet---------> tostan@scivax.lerc.nasa.gov | | Research Engineer, aircraft icing | | NASA Lewis Research Center, Cleveland, OH | +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
yorkw@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Willis F York) (01/10/91)
tostan@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Stan Mohler (SVER)) writes: > Will the Amiga accept a joy stick which has >variable resistors instead of the silly click-switches that the C-64 is limited >to? Thanks, *experts* ! FLAME WAR!!!! I Like those Click Switches!i Flame off.. (Ya sound like a APPLE user.., "Joysticks for $30!!!!") Big :^) The only time i've seen where a var-res is needes is JUST for a better "feel" for ya flight sim. The amiga can handle them, but none "FIT" no programs (that i know of) use them, and they cost MEGA $$$$ compared to the DURABLE microswitch kind. Where else would ya want a Var-res Joystic? Get a "Yoke" if ya want a nifty simulator... C-ya . -- yorkw@ecn.purdue.edu Willis F York ---------------------------------------------- Macintosh... Proof that a Person can use a Computer all day and still not know ANYTHING about computers.
jon@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Deutsch) (01/10/91)
In article <1991Jan10.032717.21126@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> tostan@mars.lerc.nasa.gov writes: >I'm considering shopping for one of those "COOL" Amiga computers. I have been >so impressed with the eloquence of some of these posts :-)) that I am asking >someone to explain what the different Amigas are called, how their performances >compare, and approximate prices. What's the diff between an Amiga 500, 1000, >and 3000? Is there a 5000? The graphics are cool, but will the Amiga run >flight simulators as smoothly as a PC-AT (whose flight sim performance is fair >compared to a 386 I'm sure)? Will the Amiga accept a joy stick which has >variable resistors instead of the silly click-switches that the C-64 is limited >to? Thanks, *experts* ! > IN all seriousness, I suggest that you bring your question to a more, how shall I put it, *serious* amiga-subgroup (ie: comp.sys.amiga.misc). BUT, since you asked on THIS subgroup, I shall be more than happy to give you the more-than-appropriate answer! Y'see, it doesn't really matter what amiga you buy. It really doesn't. All that matters is that you OWN one. They all do the same, incredible things. Just that some models are bigger, and some are smaller. Oh, and some are faster, too. If you are one of those 'bigger is better' fellows, I would suggest the Amiga 2500. It's the biggest. If you are one of those 'but mine goes 24.5 MIPS, NEYH!' people, I would suggest an Amiga 3000. It's the fastest. If you are one of those 'discreteness is the base of all reason' dudes, then I would most highly suggest the Amiga 500! It's most definitely the smallest. So, there ya go. The Amiga wrap-up. As previously posted, it's really quite simple. The Amiga is the best there ever is and ever will be, and there is just no changing the truth. X-------------------+--------------+-----------------------X | | |\ |>jon@brahms.udel.edu<| "For my 2 cents, | | \|on |/eutsch |>>-----------------<<| I'd pay a dollar" | X------+--------------------+--------------------+---------X
eachus@linus.mitre.org (Robert I. Eachus) (01/11/91)
In article <1991Jan10.032717.21126@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> tostan@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Stan Mohler (SVER)) writes:
I'm considering shopping for one of those "COOL" Amiga computers.
I have been so impressed with the eloquence of some of these posts
:-)) that I am asking someone to explain what the different Amigas
are called, how their performances compare, and approximate prices.
What's the diff between an Amiga 500, 1000, and 3000? Is there a
5000? The graphics are cool, but will the Amiga run flight
simulators as smoothly as a PC-AT (whose flight sim performance is
fair compared to a 386 I'm sure)? Will the Amiga accept a joy
stick which has variable resistors instead of the silly
click-switches that the C-64 is limited to? Thanks, *experts* !
Okay, I'll take a shot (and duck the retrun volleys....)
All models include mouse, keyboard (isn't it amazing what some
companies treat as optional?), one serial port, one parallel port, and
NTSC standard color output (although some models require an
inexpensive adapter to connect to a TV, but you don't want to do that
anyway). All models except the 3000 (which has a 16 or 25 MHz 68030
on the motherboard) contain a 68000 and three wild custom chips
(Paula, Denise, and Agnes) which do most of the sound, graphics, and
floppy disk I/O.
Standard Video modes (supported on all machines) include 320x200
and 320x400 up to 32 colors from 4096 plus EHB (extra half bright) and
HAM (hold and modify) modes, and 640x200 & 640x400 up to 16 colors
from 4096 (but there are techniques which switch the palette on the
fly to provide more colors). The 400 line modes are refreshed at 30
Hz, which can cause unacceptable flicker with certain color
combinations or for some individuals unless you have a high
persistance monitor or a scan doubler and a multisynch monitor.
There are also to additional sets of modes supported by the
enhanced chip set: productivity modes 640x800 or 1280x400, four colors
from 64, and the Moniterm modes, actually a 15 Hz refresh where the
monitor puts four panes together (and refreshes the screen at 60 Hz).
This provides 1008x800 or 1024x1024(?) at 50 Hz.
All modes other than the Moniterm modes can be overscanned (I
typically run at 704x470) or underscanned (you can open a screen with
less than the "standard" number of rows and columns. You can open
windows on any screen of course, but multiple screens, even at
different resolutions and with different palettes, can be displayed on
a single (physical) display at the same time! The physical screen can
be separated vertically and different (logical) screens pulled down or
flipped to the back, etc. I normally use a separate screen for each
terminal session, and my aliases assign a different palette for each
host machine.
Unix (Sys 5R4) from Commodore requires a memory managemment unit
which is available on the 6820 and 6830 boards from Commodore, the
3000, and some other processor upgrades. (It also requires a
cartridge tape drive.) I think that we still haven't reached the
official announcement date, but Commodore has been selling (and
shipping) systems to basically anyone who asks.
Amiga 500 (currently available in C and P packages):
Low end of the line. Capable of running most (I'll get to the
exceptions later) software for the family at a rock bottom (as low as
$500) price. Base unit includes 1/2 Meg of memory (the P version has
1 Meg, there are plug in boards to expand internally to about 2 Meg).
A SOTS (stick on the side) hard disk, and hard disk controller, with
room for 2 Meg of memory, is available from Commodore. Lots of
peripherals are available from third parties.
Advantages: small lightweight (unless you want to carry a
monitor with it), inexpensive.
Disadvantages: keyboard is not detachable, power supply is in a
separate brick and very easy to overload, so if you add peripherals
which draw power form the machine, prepare to replace the pwoer
supply.
Amiga 1000: Original Amiga, no longer manufactured. Since it
loads the Kickstart (ROM) from disk, it can run all the old software,
etc. 256K RAM (almost always expanded internally to 512K), can often
be purchased second hand for about $400 with monitor. This is the
machine I have at home.
Advantages: Almost as light as the 500, but it has a detachable
keyboard (and a place to park it). It has a robust power supply that
can support a lot of add ons, and has several video output options
built-in.
Disadvantages: Does not support the new 512K ROMs and the ECS
(extended chip set). There are new add-ons (which may cost more than
the base machine) to support these. Addition of hard disks and more
than about 2 Meg of FAST memory is difficult.
Amiga 2000: This box has a 68000 chip standard (same as the 500
and 1000), the largest power supply, 1 Meg of memory on the
motherboard--you'll want more--and 9 internal slots: Video slot,
Processor slot, four Zorro II slots (including two positions for 80x86
boards) and I think it is two AT and one XT slots, but I would have to
open the box and check. The machine I am typing this on has a
FlickerFixer in the video slot, a 2630 card in the processor slot (25
MHz 68030 with 68882 and 4 Meg of 32-bi wide memory), a 2090 disk
controller, an Ethernet card, and two 16-bit memory cards. The 2000
has an additional 3-1/2 inch bay and a 5-1/4 inch bay for additional
disk drives. (I have a hard disk in the 5-1/4 inch and an extra 3-1/2
inch floppy drive in mine.)
Advantages: Until the 3500 comes out (or a 68040 board for the
3000), this is machine of choice if price and portability are not
major concerns. There are 50 MHz 68030 boards available for the
processor slot, and the Video Toaster is something you have to see to
believe (especially with three! monitors attached to the system). You
can put in any sort of 80x86 board you want (I don't want), etc.
Disadvantages: A 3000 may do all you want at a cheaper price
and with a smaller footprint...
Amiga 2000HD, Amiga 2500, Amiga 2500/30: Designation for Amiga
2000s shipped with internal hard disks and for the 2500's either a
A2620 (16 MHz 68020, 68851, and 68881) or A2630 (25 MHz 68030 and
68882) (2500/30) board from Commodore.
Advantages: Saves effort installing software on hard disk.
Disadvantage: None, if it is the disk and/or accelerator board
that you want.
Amiga 3000/16, Amiga 3000/25: Newest Amiga, and by far the
cheapest on a cost/performance basis. Comes standard with a 68030 at
16 or 25 MHz, and a hard disk (either 50, 100, or 200 Meg). Units
with 40/50 Meg disks have 2 Meg of memory installed, 100 Meg units now
have 5 Meg installed, and 200 Meg units (currently only sold as Unix
boxes, I think) have 9 Meg of memory. In all models there is room for
18 Meg of 32-bit memory on the motherboard, and five slots: four Zorro
III slots, each lined up with something different, and a coprocessor
slot.
The 3000 also has the equvalent of the flickerFixer card on the
motherboard, and this allows Multisync monitors to be run without
using up the video slot (which lines up with one of the Zorro III
slots). Zorro III is an upward compatible 32-bit bus with the 16-bit
Zorro II bus in the 2000.
Advantages: Price!, performance, future expandability, lots of
room for fast memory, and right now they are shipping with software to
map the ROMs into RAM memory which makes upgrading easier.
Disadvantages: The top processor accelerators are for the 2000,
but this should soon change. (Besides isn't 7-8 MIPS on a desktop
enough for this year? This month?) Also the Video Toaster does not
currently fit into the 3000 although NewTek says they are working on
it.
Amiga 3500: Amiga 3000 motherboard in a bigger box with room
for more slots and a heftier power supply.
Disadvantages: Not even announced yet, :-( but it shares
schematics with the 3000.
Robert I. Eachus
Amiga 3000 - The hardware makes it great, the software makes it
awesome, and the price will make it ubiquitous.
--
Robert I. Eachus
When the dictators are ready to make war upon us, they will not
wait for an act of war on our part." - Franklin D. Rooseveltm0154@tnc.UUCP (GUY GARNETT) (01/11/91)
Ok, running from the top on down: The Amiga 3000 is the top of the line machine. It is a 68030 (does it come with a 68882 as well? ... I think so) machine with a nice looking small footprint case and acceptable expansion options. It comes in two clock speeds with several hard disk options. Soon you should be able to get one with AT&T Unix SVR5 on it. If you want to use the machine for serious work (or serious play ;) like ray-tracing or software development, this is the machine for you. Get it if you can at all afford it. The Amiga 2000 is in the middle. It comes with a 68000 (running at a relatively modest clock speed by today's standards). The machine is almost infinitely expandable, with lots of slots and available options (from simple memory and hard disks all the way up to a 50Mhz 68030 board). Lots of configurations are available. This is a good machine for almost anything unless you are really tight on money, or are buying a machine to play games on. The Amiga 1000 has a keyboard garage, and is considered obsolete by Commodore (but not by me ;). Almost impossible to expand, but can be had second-hand for little more than a song. If you are a fanatic, and like hacking hardware, consider one. It's showing it's age, but there's a dance in the old girl yet (LUCAS, FRANCES, ReJuvenator, Xetec HD ... you can still do some stuff with the machine). Not recommended except for the die-hards. The Amiga 500 is at the bottom. In its base configuration, it has a 68000, 512k RAM, and one floppy drive. The good news is that the list price for this is $499 (street price should be lower). Expansion options are limited (a hard drive and some memory are about the best you can do). Like the 1000, lots of hardware hacking is possible (MegaMidgetRacer: 60830 w/ 4Mb RAM) but not worth the effort. Good entry level machine (I would buy one for a kid in a minute) or as a game machine. For playing games, you will want 2 floppy drives and 1Mb ram as a minimum. For serious play, programming, or most other uses, consider a hard drive (at least 40Mb, 80 is much better), 1Mb chip ram (Amiga 500P, 2000, or 3000; the 3000 can have up to 2Mb chip ram), and 2 or 4Mb of Fast (expansion) ram. For heavy work, the 3000 is the best bet, with 2Mb chip ram and as much fast ram as you can afford. Wildstar
skank@iastate.edu (Skank George L) (01/12/91)
In article <664@tnc.UUCP> m0154@tnc.UUCP (GUY GARNETT) writes: > >Ok, running from the top on down: > >The Amiga 3000 is the top of the line machine. It is a 68030 (does it >come with a 68882 as well? ... I think so) machine with a nice looking >small footprint case and acceptable expansion options. It comes in >two clock speeds with several hard disk options. Soon you should be >able to get one with AT&T Unix SVR5 on it. If you want to use the >machine for serious work (or serious play ;) like ray-tracing or >software development, this is the machine for you. Get it if you can >at all afford it. The Amiga 3000 comes with either a 16 or 25MHz 68030, a 68882 Numeric Coprocessor, a Memory Management Unit, an onboard display deinterlacer, an SCSI-II controller, and at least two megs of 80ns rams (one meg of chip ram, and one meg of fast ram), expandable to 16M on the motherboard using 1Mx4 zips. The unit also contains a Quantum hard drive, usually a 50M or 100M drive (I think). Most importantly, it is shipped with the new version 2.0 of the operating system (which is backwards compatable with older versions). The A3000 is available is several base configurations of ram and hard drive sizes and is covered under the educational discount program. See a dealer near you for further information in these areas. (I might add that I love mine! :) -- George L. Skank | skank@iastate.edu |Fast cars, fast women, fast computers... Senior, Electrical Engineering |(not necessarily in that order)
graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (JIM GRAHAM) (01/14/91)
In article <664@tnc.UUCP>, m0154@tnc.UUCP (GUY GARNETT) writes... > >The Amiga 500 is at the bottom. Only in terms of what it can do "out of the box". >In its base configuration, it has a >68000, 512k RAM, and one floppy drive. The good news is that the list >price for this is $499 (street price should be lower). Expansion >options are limited (a hard drive and some memory are about the best >you can do). Nay, not so! Again, if you mean "out of the box", you are correct. But, I cannot think of an expansion option that you can't get for the A500. Most options are available as sidecars. Additionally, it is now possible to use ALL of the current plug-in boards made for the A2000 and up. All it takes is an expansion unit called the "Bodega Bay". It is true that one has to make an outlay of 350-400 dollars for this doodad, but for those who can only afford their systems a little at a time, it's perfect, and you end up with an A2000 equivalent. >Like the 1000, lots of hardware hacking is possible >(MegaMidgetRacer: 60830 w/ 4Mb RAM) but not worth the effort. Good >entry level machine (I would buy one for a kid in a minute) or as a >game machine. It's not clear what you mean by "entry level machine", unless again, you are referring to the low cost. All Amigas have essentially the same level of complexity in terms of operating, maintaining, etc. The possible exception would be the A3000, which has a somewhat different operating system (AmigaDos 2.0). But even here, the older op. systems can be used. They're ALL good for "game machines". The A500 is no more qualified as a "game machine" than an A3000, except in price. >a hard drive (at least 40Mb, 80 is much better), 1Mb chip ram (Amiga >500P, 2000, or 3000; the 3000 can have up to 2Mb chip ram), I currently have a memory board installed that can handle up to 6 megabytes of ram. With the addition of the "fatter agnus", my A500 can also support 2 megabytes of chip ram. In fact, the newer A500's already have the "fatter agnus". I'm using a BaseBoard memory expansion. There are memory expanders for the A500 that take it up to 8 megabytes. Here's my system: Amiga 500 (revision 5 motherboard) Kickstart 1.2 Rom BaseBoard Memory expansion unit Internal 3.5" floppy drive 2 Seagate ST-238 32Mbyte Harddrives interfaced by Pre'Spect Techniqs ALF-DG-RLL HD interface Supra 2400 external modem -> ->Disclaimer: I'm not ashamed of what I say. <- <- Sorry if the above disclaimer is too long. ______________________________________________________________________ | Internet: graham@venus.iucf.indiana.edu | | UUCP: dolmen!graham@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu | | | | BBS: The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) | | (812) 334-0418, 24hrs. | |______________________________________________________________________|