xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (01/20/91)
zerkle@iris.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle) writes: > This leads to a very serious problem with documenting commercial > software. The people who wrote the programs can not write English > well. The people who can write English well can not understand the > computer programs. This means that the manuals for programs are either > incomprehensible (if the programmers write them) or wrong (if writers > are hired for the manuals). peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) responds: > Just to assure you: This is nothing special for English. Here in > Germany it's the same mess. What annoys me most is that computer > magazines here tend to totally forget about rules of how to write > texts. They even are going to use much of English grammar in German > texts which leads to really horrible results. Worst is with > punctuation rules. They differ heavily from the English ones, but now > more and more German texts appear with commas set after English rules. > Pure horror! > From that you can conclude that they are able to read English > documentation, but then they aren't able to convert this into real > German. So this should be an even worse situation than in English > speaking countries. And in a horrible burst of jingoism (note the followup!) I chip in: When computer programming first spread outside the Anglophon nations, the situation was the same as for the airlines and the ships and other communications needs that were no respectors of national borders; programming was done, and spoken of, and documented, in English, so that we wouldn't be involved in a Babel of diverse languages when porting software. Now, Amiga UUCP-Plus is available, but you'd better know the author's native tongue if you want to read the docs; you can get a great PD TeX, and the docs will show up, someday. You can get Unix lharc, and the docs are almost in English, but they throw in the Japanese ones for those who really want to understand the software. I liked it better when the whole world was busy trying to speak _my_ language. Maybe a little kick-ass war will bring English back to respectability. Probably a smiley should be in there someplace, but I learned German, Latin, and Spanish, and I still want to see the code and docs and even commentary in English, damnit. Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> -- ONE world requires ONE language. We can't afford to keep giving scholarships to proto-dictators so they can later understand CNN while they rape and pillage.
davidm@uunet.UU.NET (David S. Masterson) (01/22/91)
>>>>> On 20 Jan 91 02:36:12 GMT, xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) said:
Kent> ONE world requires ONE language.
Careful, the natural conclusion of that might be:
resulting in ONE mind.
which would be rather BORinG (for those of you that watch ST-TNG).
--
====================================================================
David Masterson Consilium, Inc.
(415) 691-6311 640 Clyde Ct.
uunet!cimshop!davidm Mtn. View, CA 94043
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"If someone thinks they know what I said, then I didn't say it!"hwr@pilhuhn.ka.sub.org (Heiko W.Rupp) (01/22/91)
Organization: Not an Organization In article <1991Jan20.023612.14976@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG>, Kent Paul Dolan writes: > >zerkle@iris.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle) writes: >> software. The people who wrote the programs can not write English >> well. The people who can write English well can not understand the >> computer programs. >peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) responds: >> Just to assure you: This is nothing special for English. >> Pure horror! [...] > >And in a horrible burst of jingoism (note the followup!) I chip in: > >Probably a smiley should be in there someplace, but I learned German, >Latin, and Spanish, and I still want to see the code and docs and even >commentary in English, damnit. > That's allright, but there are more and more users which have to use a computer, but which are not able to understand the manuals in english. But if hard- and software is distributed in a land where they speak another language than the developpement language, the local distributor should at least take someone to read the translated manual carefully and to discover and correct the errors. -Heiko -- Heiko W.Rupp, Gerwigstr.5, D-7500 Karlsruhe +49 721 693642 hwr@pilhuhn.ka.sub.org or uk85@ibm3090.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de "Who comes too late will be punished by life - I am always too late" :-( hwr
eric@bnrmtl.bnr.ca (Eric Brunelle) (01/23/91)
In article <1991Jan20.023612.14976@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG>, xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: |> |> When computer programming first spread outside the Anglophon nations, |> the situation was the same as for the airlines and the ships and other |> communications needs that were no respectors of national borders; |> programming was done, and spoken of, and documented, in English, so that |> we wouldn't be involved in a Babel of diverse languages when porting |> software. That's what YOU think. We've been programming in French for the last seventeen years, and we were not the first. I don't know what "jingoism" is, but can you say "nombrilisme"? |> Now, Amiga UUCP-Plus is available, but you'd better know the author's |> native tongue if you want to read the docs; you can get a great PD TeX, |> and the docs will show up, someday. You can get Unix lharc, and the docs |> are almost in English, but they throw in the Japanese ones for those who |> really want to understand the software. Hey, welcome to the world. Now you know how we have felt for a couple of decades. |> I liked it better when the whole world was busy trying to speak _my_ |> language. Maybe a little kick-ass war will bring English back to |> respectability. |> |> Probably a smiley should be in there someplace, but I learned German, |> Latin, and Spanish, and I still want to see the code and docs and even |> commentary in English, damnit. Well maybe you should consider doing it yourself. |> Kent, the man from xanth. |> <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> |> -- |> ONE world requires ONE language. Yeah, right. And that should be _my_ language, French. And I'm ready to receive your missiles and bombers. Global ;-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric Brunelle | "C'est la nuit qu'il est beau | de croire a la lumiere" eric%bnrmtl@iro.umontreal.ca | -- Rostand, Chantecler ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (01/28/91)
In article <188ff65e.ARN11fd@pilhuhn.ka.sub.org> hwr@pilhuhn.ka.sub.org writes: > >But if hard- and software is distributed in a land where they speak another >language than the developpement language, the local distributor should >at least take someone to read the translated manual carefully and to >discover and correct the errors. Huh? Complaints? Please, if you have found bugs in the German translation, then send me bug reports ASAP! We're just about to make up a revised version of the manual and I want to remove all bugs I come across. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche) (01/29/91)
In <188ff65e.ARN11fd@pilhuhn.ka.sub.org> (Heiko W.Rupp) writes: >In article <1991Jan20.023612.14976@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG>, Kent Paul Dolan writes: >>zerkle@iris.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle) writes: >>> software. The people who wrote the programs can not write English >>> well. The people who can write English well can not understand the >>> computer programs. Anybody who's worked in the "front-line" of customer support realizes that there are (at least) three type of manuals: 1) Those which the client reads and understands; 2) Those which the client reads but can't understand; 3) Those which the client doesn't bother to read. Most are of category 3. :-( >>And in a horrible burst of jingoism (note the followup!) I chip in: >> >>Probably a smiley should be in there someplace, but I learned German, >>Latin, and Spanish, and I still want to see the code and docs and even >>commentary in English, damnit. Too right! And isn't it fun to compare the different translations in a multi-lingual manual? Often, you'll find things explained better in another language. >That's allright, but there are more and more users which have to use a >computer, but which are not able to understand the manuals in english. Often, despite the fact that the manuals are in their primary language. (My native language is german, my primary language is english.) >But if hard- and software is distributed in a land where they speak another >language than the developpement language, the local distributor should >at least take someone to read the translated manual carefully and to >discover and correct the errors. Very true, but then again, you'd miss out on a lot of laughs. :-) -- _--_|\ Bernd Felsche #include <std/disclaimer.h> / \ Metapro Systems, 328 Albany Highway, Victoria Park, Western Australia \_.--._/ Fax: +61 9 472 3337 Phone: +61 9 362 9355 TZ=WST-8 v E-Mail: bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au | bernie@DIALix.oz.au