lcs@remus.rutgers.edu (Lyle C. Seplowitz) (03/20/91)
First of all, I'm not going to bash Commodore. I've owned a Commodore
computer since the Vic 20 and have upgraded to the 64 and to my
current machine, the 128. Now that I want to purchase an Amiga, I am
faced with a problem that I think many would-be Amiga owners have...
I'm interested in the Amiga for its graphics and animation abilities.
I've considered the alternatives, the IBM and Mac. While I like the
Mac, I would only purchase it if I only wanted to do desktop
publishing and graphic design (and based on what I've heard about the
new NEXT, I might just get one of those instead of the Mac). I don't
really like the IBM. While it does have the ability to display higher
resolution displays with more colors, the hardware can cost a fortune
and you still can't animate on it. Plus I'd still have to deal with
MS-DOS.
Anyway, to get on with my problem. I've been looking into what Amiga
machine to purchase. I would really like to get a A3000, but I'm not
sure if I can afford one right now. Therefore that leaves me two
alternatives, the A2000 or A500. With the latter, I can't stand the
idea of having a computer that looks like my 128, even if it is much
more powerful. (I don't want to even think about how big the thing
would be with a hard drive on its side). Please, don't even mention
that Bodega Bay thing. I think that is the ugliest and crueliest thing
you can do to a computer. I do like the overall appearance of the
A500. At least it looks more pleasing than the A2000, which is
essentially a box with a keyboard. Yes, you may think that I am shallow,
but looks (in a computer) are important to me.
But powerful and features are more important than appearance. So back
to the A3000. This machine has everything I want at a great price. At
least the educational price is excellent. But it is still slightly
high for me right now.
So now I go back to the A2000 and A500. The major problem I have with
the A500 is that it isn't easily expandable. Sure there are options
for expansion, but they are limited. The A2000 offers great
expandability options.
OK, let me get to my point or at least my suggestions. Commodore, wake
up! The market is changing rapidly and your being left behind. What
happened to WB 2.0? Come on, how long do you need to get that out? You
can't be that far off since its already available to A3000 owners!
Kill the A500 already! Sorry folks, but Commodore needs to replace the
A500 with a better low-end machine, like an A1500. The A1500 could
look like a longer version of the A3000. Commodore needs to have a
low-end machine that is professional as well. A detachable keyboard
and expansion slots are important. An optional INTERAL hard drive is a
must. Yet, Commodore should design the machine so that A500 owners can
transform their machines into the A1500-type design. This way no one
is left behind (Commodore's favorite policy).
As far as the A2000, make that machine look better, please! And make
the hard drive standard! I think we are in a time when hard drives are
standard equipment for a computer. If you don't need a HD then you
could always purchase the A1500.
More internal memory is definetly needed! The A1500 should have 1 Meg
Chip RAM standard. 512K just doesn't cut it anymore. The A2000 should
come with 2 Megs, 1 Meg Chip, 1 Meg Fast. And the A3000 should have 3
Megs, 1 Meg Chip, 2 Megs fast.
What else, well better graphics displays would be nice. I'm not
talking about those 24-bit boards out now, I'm talking a change in the
graphics chips. Why can't the Amiga have 24-bit color standard? What
about 8-bitplanes of color? The low-end machine might not have all the
graphic capabilites as the A3000, but users should be able to expand
easily.
I hope this isn't too hopelessly jumbled. You should be able to get my
point. I like Commodore and I like the Amiga, but Commodore needs to
wake up and see what's going on in the computer world or they'll be
left behind. Come on Commodore what are you doing?
--
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:) :( :> :< :] :[ ;) :| :? :} :{ :* :^) :^( :+ :-) :\ :/ :! :$ :' :@ :O :# :<>
l c s @ r e m u s . r u t g e r s . e d u
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Everything stated or expressed in this post is strictly my opinion or viewpointnwickham@triton.unm.edu (Neal C. Wickham) (03/20/91)
In article <Mar.19.21.42.42.1991.16538@remus.rutgers.edu> lcs@remus.rutgers.edu (Lyle C. Seplowitz) writes: > {stuff deleted} >I like Commodore and I like the Amiga, but Commodore needs to >wake up and see what's going on in the computer world or they'll be >left behind. Come on Commodore what are you doing? .... we will see if Commodore and Amiga get "left behind"! NCW
judge@alchemy.tcnet.ithaca.ny.us (rory toma) (03/20/91)
> More internal memory is definetly needed! The A1500 should have 1 Meg > Chip RAM standard. 512K just doesn't cut it anymore. The A2000 should > come with 2 Megs, 1 Meg Chip, 1 Meg Fast. And the A3000 should have 3 > Megs, 1 Meg Chip, 2 Megs fast. > Actually, the current configuration in the 3000 of 1meg chip, 1 meg fast makes sense. If you wish to upgrade using the 1X4's, you can take the 1 meg of fast out and add it to your chip section. By giving 2 megs of fast, 1 meg would be wasted in this option. No, the real complaint is this: Why did C= have to choose the most expensive memory on the face of the Earth? I sure hope it REALLY outperforms any other kind of memory, 'cause you sure do pay for it. rory
cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) (03/20/91)
In article <1991Mar20.082142.6272@ariel.unm.edu> nwickham@triton.unm.edu (Neal C. Wickham) writes: >In article <Mar.19.21.42.42.1991.16538@remus.rutgers.edu> lcs@remus.rutgers.edu (Lyle C. Seplowitz) writes: >> >{stuff deleted} > >>I like Commodore and I like the Amiga, but Commodore needs to >>wake up and see what's going on in the computer world or they'll be >>left behind. Come on Commodore what are you doing? > >.... we will see if Commodore and Amiga get "left behind"! > > NCW People complain a lot about C= being left behind in terms of custom chips, but I just wish there was some decent software for it (ie. Spreadsheets/Graphing programs etc.). If the Mac can do ok, it shows hardware doesn't count as much as software... -- Colin Adams Shadowplay James Cook University Amiga Developers Computer Science Department Internet : cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (03/20/91)
In article <Mar.19.21.42.42.1991.16538@remus.rutgers.edu> lcs@remus.rutgers.edu (Lyle C. Seplowitz) writes: >Kill the A500 already! Sorry folks, but Commodore needs to replace the >A500 with a better low-end machine, like an A1500. The A1500 could >look like a longer version of the A3000. Commodore needs to have a >low-end machine that is professional as well. A detachable keyboard >and expansion slots are important. An optional INTERAL hard drive is a >must. Well, with all those changes, you're practically an A2000 already, and certainly no longer a low end machine. The A500 is a low end machine simply because its configuration is the cheapest way to make an Amiga. Larger cases, larger power supplies, detachable keyboards, internal hard drives, and all that jazz cost money. You don't replace a $500 machine with a $1000 or $1500 machine. >Yet, Commodore should design the machine so that A500 owners can transform >their machines into the A1500-type design. That's what we call, in the business, a kludge. >This way no one is left behind (Commodore's favorite policy). That's not Commodore's favorite policy, it is the way of the world. You don't expect to upgrade your 1990 car to the latest thing that comes out in '93, you can't expect to upgrade your A500 to a different kind of computer, other than going the route of something like a Bodega Bay. External expansion is the way to upgrade an A500, and it doesn't leave anyone behind, capabilities speaking. If you're disturbed by the aesthetics, as you obviously are, you don't have to look at it, but computers in general are sold for their capabilities. If they also happen to look nice, that's just gravy. As long as the A500 runs Amiga programs and can be adapted to use A2000 expansion cards, you aren't being left behind. You want something for nothing -- you want to pay a low end price for capabilities that only come with an intermediate level machine. >As far as the A2000, make that machine look better, please! And make >the hard drive standard! The A2000 comes in two model, A2000 and A2000HD. You have your choice, you have the freedom to buy it with or without the drive. No problem. Sure, the A2000 is homely. We had much better case design on the A3000. That's progress. >And the A3000 should have 3 Megs, 1 Meg Chip, 2 Megs fast. Buy the A3000-25/100; it comes with 1 Meg Chip, 4 Megs Fast. >I like Commodore and I like the Amiga, but Commodore needs to wake up and see >what's going on in the computer world or they'll be left behind. The current trend is toward machines that are minimally expandable or totally unexpandable. Is that what you're after? You buy a monochrome NeXTStation, you have to buy a whole new computer to upgrade to color. No slots. The new Apples have one slot. It's impossible to make any machine infinitely expandable. If you want progress, you are going to get to the point where your current system can't be expanded to take in everything that's new. If you really need all that's new, then you upgrade your entire system. The Amiga philosophy has always been to force this only when absolutely necessary. You can upgrade an A500 to do virtually anything an A2000 can do, except for some video slot things. You're just arguing about the aesthetics of that. The A3000 supports things that couldn't possibly be done in an A2000, which is why we built it. The A2500/30 served just fine until we needed to go to the A3000 level. Maybe someday there will be something new enough to warrent an A3000 replacement or something at a level higher than the A3000. This is natural growth, not designed in obselence, which is the current trend. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "What works for me might work for you" -Jimmy Buffett
orovner@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Oleg Rovner) (03/20/91)
Hey, why don't we (the net.people) establish a formal marketing department for Commodore? I am sure the many valuable, applicable and plain USEfUL ideas that Marc Barret and other similiar people have are taking a HUGE amount of work time from the Commodore hierarchy (hey, I KNOW Irving Gould gets c.s.a.advocacy transcripts sent to him each morning along with his cup of joe and a donut). So, Let's remedy this by calling (yes, calling) commodore with advice on how to run a computer company. I think two phone calls a day would not be unreasonable? OR closed captioned for sarcasm impaired: JUST A JOKE -- ******************************************************************** Escape, Where's Escape? Goddamn It! I need escape -a student looking for the escape key at the student computer center at UCSD ********************************************************************
xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Marc Barrett) (03/21/91)
In article <Mar.19.21.42.42.1991.16538@remus.rutgers.edu>, lcs@remus.rutgers.edu (Lyle C. Seplowitz) writes: >>What else, well better graphics displays would be nice. I'm not >talking about those 24-bit boards out now, I'm talking a change in the >graphics chips. Why can't the Amiga have 24-bit color standard? What >about 8-bitplanes of color? The low-end machine might not have all the >graphic capabilites as the A3000, but users should be able to expand >easily. This has been hashed and bashed before, by me in particular if by nobody else. The problem is that the custom chips are already at their limits, and no big improvements are possible unless the custom chips are totally redesigned. Unfortunately, Commodore isn't exactly in a hurry to redesign the custom chips. Commodore has not been investing enough in research and development for the past five years, and recently slashed what little they were investing. Thus, I would not expect any improvements at all in the Amiga's color, graphics, sound, or floppy I/O capabilities for at least three years, minimum. No 24-bit color, no 8-bitplanes, no improvements. I don't like it any more than anybody else, but this is the harsh and bitter truth. When a company like Commodore invests nothing in their future, the future cannot be expected to be bright. Commodore has not been investing in their own future, and the future isn't bright for either themselves or the Amiga. > >I hope this isn't too hopelessly jumbled. You should be able to get my >point. I like Commodore and I like the Amiga, but Commodore needs to >wake up and see what's going on in the computer world or they'll be >left behind. Come on Commodore what are you doing? >-- -MB- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >:) :( :> :< :] :[ ;) :| :? :} :{ :* :^) :^( :+ :-) :\ :/ :! :$ :' :@ :O :# :<> > l c s @ r e m u s . r u t g e r s . e d u >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Everything stated or expressed in this post is strictly my opinion or viewpoint
kudla@rpi.edu (Robert J. Kudla) (03/21/91)
In article <1991Mar20.194243.11450@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Marc Barrett) writes:
This has been hashed and bashed before, by me in particular if
by nobody else.
I'll give you that much....
Commodore has not been investing in their own future, and the
future isn't bright for either themselves or the Amiga.
Marc, you've been posting Imminent Death of Commodore Predicted
articles for what, two years now? When is this fabled market
catastrophe going to happen? CBM stock is up and market penetration
is higher than it's ever been. I honestly can't see where lack of
default 24-bit color is going to kill us when home-level Macs are
monochrome and home-level PC's are still over 60% mono and CGA.
Commodore does need to put more money into R&D, but let's face it,
everyone needs to put more money into everything to get better
results. Can you give me a more definite date for when the sky is
going to fall?
Thanks so much.passaret@brahe.crd.ge.com ("Mr. Mike" Passaretti) (03/21/91)
In article <1991Mar20.194243.11450@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Marc Barrett, who else?) writes: # In article <Mar.19.21.42.42.1991.16538@remus.rutgers.edu>, # >lcs@remus.rutgers.edu (Lyle C. Seplowitz) writes: # >What else, well better graphics displays would be nice. I'm not # >talking about those 24-bit boards out now, I'm talking a change in the # >graphics chips. Why can't the Amiga have 24-bit color standard? What # >about 8-bitplanes of color? The low-end machine might not have all the # >graphic capabilites as the A3000, but users should be able to expand # >easily. # # This has been hashed and bashed before, by me in particular if by nobody # else. The problem is that the custom chips are already at their limits, # and no big improvements are possible unless the custom chips are totally # redesigned. Yup, Yup, and Yup. # Unfortunately, Commodore isn't exactly in a hurry to redesign the # custom chips. Commodore has not been investing enough in research and # development for the past five years, and recently slashed what little # they were investing. Thus, I would not expect any improvements at all # in the Amiga's color, graphics, sound, or floppy I/O capabilities for # at least three years, minimum. No 24-bit color, no 8-bitplanes, no # improvements. I'll take that bet, -MB-. I'll bet you that we see at least a 2x increase in CHIP bandwidth before the end of the year. I'm not acting on any inside info here, just common sense. I've looked at the 3000 schematics, and I've thought about this a lot. Commodore is NOT stupid. Really. I know you disagree, and that's what we're really betting on here. I'm already resigned to a motherboard replacement to see the 4-8x improvements I'd like to see, but I'm not willing to bet that that's not going to happen either. # I don't like it any more than anybody else, but this is the harsh and # bitter truth. When a company like Commodore invests nothing in their # future, the future cannot be expected to be bright. Commodore has not # been investing in their own future, and the future isn't bright for # either themselves or the Amiga. # # -MB- Marc, if you had ANY idea of the work Commodores R&D is doing, you'd be much less likely to cry wolf. Not, of course, that I have any such info. I just know the kind of people working for CBM, and if they weren't doing new, nifty things there, they'd be out the door. And _that_ is enough for me to keep the faith. - MM -- passaretti@crd.ge.com {whatever}!crdgw1!brahe!passaret
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (03/21/91)
In article <19996@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >In article <Mar.19.21.42.42.1991.16538@remus.rutgers.edu> lcs@remus.rutgers.edu (Lyle C. Seplowitz) writes: > >>Kill the A500 already! Sorry folks, but Commodore needs to replace the >>A500 with a better low-end machine, like an A1500. The A1500 could >>look like a longer version of the A3000. Commodore needs to have a >>low-end machine that is professional as well. A detachable keyboard >>and expansion slots are important. An optional INTERAL hard drive is a >>must. > >Well, with all those changes, you're practically an A2000 already, and >certainly no longer a low end machine. The A500 is a low end machine simply >because its configuration is the cheapest way to make an Amiga. Larger >cases, larger power supplies, detachable keyboards, internal hard drives, >and all that jazz cost money. You don't replace a $500 machine with a $1000 >or $1500 machine. > He does have a point, though. There is no intermediate model, something between an A500 and an A2000HD (I don't consider the A2000 a real choice for almost anyone, if you want more than the 500 the 2000HD is an important jump, IMNSHO). What I would really like to see most is a system that is self-contained. In its pre-packaged form is designed for moderate usage. i.e. something with a built in 40MB HD. It doesn't have to be too fast. Commodore could save some money and got something that is slower than a Quantum, but not so slow as that drive in the A590. A HD is really essential for a machine to be used for anything serious, even Word Processing. It makes things so much easier when you can have all your fonts available without swapping disks! Also, it should have a moderate size. Probably the A3000 case, but possibly even smaller. It will have built in SCSI and (what I consider important) the ability to put the Display Enhancer onboard, possibly via a socketed chip. If it also had room for onboard memory, then you wouldn't need ANY slots. You could either use a side-connector like on the A500 or one slot, if it is really considered necessary. Why do I think this is so important? Because Commodore has to look to compete better for the person who wants to get a computer that isn't overly powerful but meets certain minimum standards, such as a hard drive and a detachable keyboard. The computer mentioned above shouldn't be too expensive to make from Commodore's perspective. If it could be sold for the A2000's price, it would be a killer. I have seen so many people who fit this mold. At universities, people get Macs or PCs over Amigas because they don't want an A500 due to the design and the A2000HD still costs more than they want and is enormous. Well, Dave (et al.) would such a machine be cheaper or same cost as an A2000? How about if it had no slots at all, and just a socket for the display enhancer chip? > >-- >Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" > {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy > "What works for me might work for you" -Jimmy Buffett -- Ethan A tourist in New York City was overheard asking a New Yorker, "Excuse me, can you tell me how to get to the statue of liberty, or should I go f*ck myself?"
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (03/21/91)
In article <1991Mar20.194243.11450@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU writes: > > Unfortunately, Commodore isn't exactly in a hurry to redesign the >custom chips. Commodore has not been investing enough in research and >development for the past five years, and recently slashed what little >they were investing. Thus, I would not expect any improvements at all >in the Amiga's color, graphics, sound, or floppy I/O capabilities for >at least three years, minimum. No 24-bit color, no 8-bitplanes, no >improvements. > What they've been in a hurry to do neither of us know, and I do agree that they aren't spending as much as they should on R&D, but where the hell do you get the info that Commodore has SLASHED R&D? It has not decreased since I've been following the stock. It has increased all throughout. Admittedly it is low but NOTHING has been slashed. -- Ethan A tourist in New York City was overheard asking a New Yorker, "Excuse me, can you tell me how to get to the statue of liberty, or should I go f*ck myself?"
davidm@uunet.UU.NET (David S. Masterson) (03/21/91)
>>>>> On 20 Mar 91 02:42:43 GMT, lcs@remus.rutgers.edu (Lyle C. Seplowitz) >>>>> said: Lyle> I hope this isn't too hopelessly jumbled. You should be able to get my Lyle> point. I like Commodore and I like the Amiga, but Commodore needs to Lyle> wake up and see what's going on in the computer world or they'll be Lyle> left behind. Come on Commodore what are you doing? Yep, your message was "too hopelessly jumbled". You need to rethink it and keep an eye on what has been said here. The discussion of where you're driving with your point has all occurred before. In answer to your last question, I think Commodore has answered it quite well (maybe not as well as possible, but everyone could do with a "little" improvement). -- ==================================================================== David Masterson Consilium, Inc. (415) 691-6311 640 Clyde Ct. uunet!cimshop!davidm Mtn. View, CA 94043 ==================================================================== "If someone thinks they know what I said, then I didn't say it!"
xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Marc Barrett) (03/21/91)
In article <1991Mar20.224125.10689@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >In article <1991Mar20.194243.11450@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU writes: >> >> Unfortunately, Commodore isn't exactly in a hurry to redesign the >>custom chips. Commodore has not been investing enough in research and >>development for the past five years, and recently slashed what little >>they were investing. Thus, I would not expect any improvements at all >>in the Amiga's color, graphics, sound, or floppy I/O capabilities for >>at least three years, minimum. No 24-bit color, no 8-bitplanes, no >>improvements. >> > What they've been in a hurry to do neither of us know, >and I do agree that they aren't spending as much as they should >on R&D, but where the hell do you get the info that Commodore has >SLASHED R&D? It has not decreased since I've been following the >stock. It has increased all throughout. Admittedly it is low but >NOTHING has been slashed. It has been slashed as a percentage of total sales. For the fiscal year 1990, Commodore invested 3.5% of their total sales in research and development. According to Commodore's Third Quarter Report, for the first three quarters of fiscal year 1991, Commodore invested 2.2% (approximately) of their total sales in research and devlopment. If this is not a slash, I don't know what is. -MB- > > -- Ethan > > >A tourist in New York City was overheard asking a New Yorker, > > "Excuse me, can you tell me how to get to the statue of >liberty, or should I go f*ck myself?"
sss10@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Napalm) (03/21/91)
ugh not a marc barret post! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh as for 24 bit standard, then you will have to jack the price up of the 500 and other amigas and it could get very messy as incompatibilites spring up and then everyone crys about that shit.
sss10@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Napalm) (03/21/91)
In article <1991Mar21.012514.16805@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU writes: >In article <1991Mar20.224125.10689@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >>In article <1991Mar20.194243.11450@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU writes: >>> >>> Unfortunately, Commodore isn't exactly in a hurry to redesign the >>>custom chips. Commodore has not been investing enough in research and >>>development for the past five years, and recently slashed what little >>>they were investing. Thus, I would not expect any improvements at all >>>in the Amiga's color, graphics, sound, or floppy I/O capabilities for >>>at least three years, minimum. No 24-bit color, no 8-bitplanes, no >>>improvements. >>> >> What they've been in a hurry to do neither of us know, >>and I do agree that they aren't spending as much as they should >>on R&D, but where the hell do you get the info that Commodore has >>SLASHED R&D? It has not decreased since I've been following the >>stock. It has increased all throughout. Admittedly it is low but >>NOTHING has been slashed. > > It has been slashed as a percentage of total sales. For the fiscal >year 1990, Commodore invested 3.5% of their total sales in research and >development. According to Commodore's Third Quarter Report, for the >first three quarters of fiscal year 1991, Commodore invested 2.2% >(approximately) of their total sales in research and devlopment. If >this is not a slash, I don't know what is. you are right. you dont know what is. If sales increases faster than the amount spent on R&D, you will get those results. How is that the same as slashing? just pulling numbers out of the blue but lets take a look: Sales: R&D: Pct: Year # 1000 20 2% 1 2000 40 2% 2 4000 40 1% 3 2000 40 2% 4 from years 2 and 3, the pct that company X <cbm in this example> invested in R&D has decreased, but they did not cut anything. they spent the same amount of money on R&D. Where is the slashing? > > -MB- > >> >> -- Ethan >> >> >>A tourist in New York City was overheard asking a New Yorker, >> >> "Excuse me, can you tell me how to get to the statue of >>liberty, or should I go f*ck myself?"
schweige@aldebaran.cs.nps.navy.mil (Jeffrey M. Schweiger) (03/21/91)
In article <1991Mar20.194243.11450@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (MB) writes: > Unfortunately, Commodore isn't exactly in a hurry to redesign the >custom chips. Commodore has not been investing enough in research and >development for the past five years, and recently slashed what little >they were investing. Thus, I would not expect any improvements at all >in the Amiga's color, graphics, sound, or floppy I/O capabilities for >at least three years, minimum. No 24-bit color, no 8-bitplanes, no >improvements. > > I don't like it any more than anybody else, but this is the harsh and >bitter truth. When a company like Commodore invests nothing in their >future, the future cannot be expected to be bright. Commodore has not >been investing in their own future, and the future isn't bright for >either themselves or the Amiga. Marc - How about backing up some of your accusations with facts? The recent cutback in operations was in CBM, the US marketing company. Commodore engineering is a separate subsidiary of Commodore International, and was actually hiring new employees during the time of the CBM retrenchment/reorganization. IMHO, you are very wrong in stating the Commodore is investing nothing in their future. The number of new products that Commodore has introduced in the past few years indicates they are not standing still. While we as users might like more and better products faster, there are many priorities for research and development, and not all of these can be met by even the largest corporation. -- ******************************************************************************* Jeff Schweiger Standard Disclaimer CompuServe: 74236,1645 Internet (Milnet): schweige@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil *******************************************************************************
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (03/21/91)
In article <1991Mar21.012514.16805@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU writes: > > It has been slashed as a percentage of total sales. For the fiscal >year 1990, Commodore invested 3.5% of their total sales in research and >development. According to Commodore's Third Quarter Report, for the >first three quarters of fiscal year 1991, Commodore invested 2.2% >(approximately) of their total sales in research and devlopment. If >this is not a slash, I don't know what is. > It is already obvious that you don't know what you are talking about cause you don't even know when Commodore's Fiscal quarters are. Commodore's "year" goes from July through June. That makes the third quarter Jan-Mar and they haven't released one of those since third quarter of their last year. Also, Commodore had an enormous increase in sales, both last Christmas and last fall (Jul-Sep). R&D spending is spent well in advance (contracts and all). Now, if that R&D doesn't go up this Jan-Mar quarter, which is 1 1/2 months or so from release, then I'll begin to worry. But, although I don't doubt your percentages, I have no idea what quarters they refer to and if they refer to the Jul-Dec quarters all I can say is the Christmas quarter is their largest and you can't expect more to be spent come Christmas and then they cut back in January. And sales, as I say, increased, up 50% or so from the prior year. > -MB- > -- Ethan A tourist in New York City was overheard asking a New Yorker, "Excuse me, can you tell me how to get to the statue of liberty, or should I go f*ck myself?"
nwickham@triton.unm.edu (Neal C. Wickham) (03/21/91)
You know, to me it seems that the Amiga's problems are not technical. I am
not a CS person, but the CS people I know (I know some good ones) all believe
the Amiga is a pretty incredible peice of hardware. Even the fact that this
or these Amiga news groups are the most active is more evidence of the Amiga's
blatant supiority. We need support. We all know something that other people
don't know and it is a burden to bare to know that here we have this machine
that is so powerful and so much better ...and then we go out into the world
and hear: "Amiga, whats that ...an IBM compatible?" I read about subliminal
advertising and began seeing what I read about. But when I would tell someone
that the woman in this advertisement who was pulling on this guys necktie was
symbolicly trying to castrate him ...whoever I was talking to would all start
slowly moving away from me. A couple of years later, I heard that there were
support groupes for people who knew about subliminal advertising because it
is very hard to know somthing important that other people don't know about.
So that is why these Amiga news groups are so popular, it is a support group for
us Amiga owners who all know something important that other people don't know.
I don't like to hear people bashing Commodore. First of all, I don't believe
that there is anything seriously wrong with Commodore and I believe C= bashing
is really just a sort of self destructive outlet of frustration. Lets bash
Apple instead ...at least turn that hostility outward, and besides, Apple
deserves it.
People just don't know about Amiga and computers. To most people, a computer
is a black mysterious box and when they buy one they are going to choose what
is least frightening and most familiar ...Apple ...IBM or "IBM compatible."
Amiga is slowly making its way. Things are changing. People know more about
computers. It seems to me that Amiga is doing pretty damn well when I consider
what it has been up against ...a new product in a new market in a technical
revolution of sorts. Geese, I'll bet if I tried, I could sell 10 Amigas to
the people I go to school with. I just show them what I can do on Amiga and
am careful not to threaten them with it.
NCW
I can not exlplain,
You would not understand,
That this is not,
How I am.
I have become,
Comfortably numb. Pink Floyed, The Walllord_zar@ucrmath.ucr.edu (wayne wallace) (03/21/91)
xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Marc Barrett) writes: >at least three years, minimum. No 24-bit color, no 8-bitplanes, no >improvements. > -MB- Ahem. Didn't you hear about CeBit in Germany just this weekend? The A2410 with the TI34010 chip in it is OUT. 24-bit color, here we come! Btw, the A3000T(ower) model is also OUT. (OUT=shown @ CeBit). More expansion slots than you would dream 5 ZorroIII, 4 AT, and 3 Video (I think I got the last three slots right. Someone in Germany who went to the show can correct me.) Barrett, stay on top of it. The A3000T was posted in other Amiga newsgroups. And no, I don't have prices on these things. Commodore? Wayne
jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) (03/21/91)
In article <1991Mar20.194243.11450@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Mister Clueless) writes: >In article <Mar.19.21.42.42.1991.16538@remus.rutgers.edu>, lcs@remus.rutgers.edu (Lyle C. Seplowitz) writes: >>>What else, well better graphics displays would be nice. I'm not >>talking about those 24-bit boards out now, I'm talking a change in the >>graphics chips. Why can't the Amiga have 24-bit color standard? What >>about 8-bitplanes of color? The low-end machine might not have all the >>graphic capabilites as the A3000, but users should be able to expand >>easily. Simple. It's too damn expensive! 8 bit or 12 bit may be fine for a standard. BUT IT'LL MOST LIKELY BE FOR SOME HIGH-END AMIGA. > This has been hashed and bashed before, by me in particular if by nobody >else. The problem is that the custom chips are already at their limits, >and no big improvements are possible unless the custom chips are totally >redesigned. > > Unfortunately, Commodore isn't exactly in a hurry to redesign the >custom chips. Commodore has not been investing enough in research and >development for the past five years, and recently slashed what little >they were investing. Thus, I would not expect any improvements at all >in the Amiga's color, graphics, sound, or floppy I/O capabilities for >at least three years, minimum. No 24-bit color, no 8-bitplanes, no >improvements. Yeah, right. Commodore is making new custom chips right now, and the A3000UX has 1.44 meg floppies. > I don't like it any more than anybody else, but this is the harsh and >bitter truth. When a company like Commodore invests nothing in their >future, the future cannot be expected to be bright. Commodore has not >been investing in their own future, and the future isn't bright for >either themselves or the Amiga. > It's not the truth. You can bet their working on it. Remember, YOU'RE the one who said Commodore was laying off engineers, when, in fact, they were hiring. So, Marc, get your head out of your ass before you post again. -- // Joseph Hillenburg/Blackwinter, Secretary, Bloomington Amiga Users Group \X/ jph@valnet.UUCP jph@irie.ais.org jph@gnu.ai.mit.edu "Project: Desert Storm is also known as ``The Mother of All Ass-Kickings.''"
bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) (03/21/91)
In article <1991Mar20.194243.11450@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU writes: > > This has been hashed and bashed before, by me in particular if by nobody >else. >...problem... ...limits, >...no big improvements... > > Unfortunately... >...not been investing enough in research and >development...slashed... >...not expect any improvements... >...minimum. ...no improvements. > > I don't like it... ...harsh and >bitter... ...invests nothing in their >future...cannot be expected to be bright. Commodore has not >been investing...and the future isn't bright Marc, save me the trouble, buddy. Let me just post the above message over and over for the next two years and save your mailer daemon the strain. Can I? Weekly World News is looking for a spot, Marc. Interested? It's Ed Anger's column. > > -MB- > Dave Hopper | /// Anthro/CS Creep | Academic Info Resouces, Stanford |__ /// | Macincrap/UNIX Consultant bard@jessica. |\\\/// I'm chewing on | Stanford.EDU | \XX/glass... --Ministry | All typos/opinions are my own ;-)
mwm@pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) (03/22/91)
In article <1991Mar21.164333.13074@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> sss10@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Napalm) writes:
on a slightly diffrent note: a friend of mine was showing me a program
called The Art department and when he loaded up an iff, the program was
telling him that 24 bit data was being loaded, or somthing that confused
me. can someone clear this up for me?
The Art Department works with 24-bit images. It's used for importing
data from various source into the Amiga, and turning it into images
displayable on an Amiga. When it reads in an image (no matter what the
format), it converts it to either 24-bit color, or to 8-bit grey scale
(if all the colors are grey), and tells you which it did. This means
if you load in a 2-color image (say red & blue), it's going to turn it
into a 24-bit image.
It's still an invaluable tool to have around. The professional version
is even better, as it allows exporting images in multiple formats
after you've played with them.
<mike
--
Here's a song about absolutely nothing. Mike Meyer
It's not about me, not about anyone else, mwm@pa.dec.com
Not about love, not about being young. decwrl!mwm
Not about anything else, either.sss10@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Napalm) (03/22/91)
heres a simple question. Why the big deal over 24 bit graphics? More specifically wouldnt making 24 bit graphics standard on an amiga 500 make alot of old things <like some paint programs and old 8 bit iff images> suddenly incompatible? He ALWAYS talks about 24 bit graphics, as if there were no amiga boards that allowed you to use/create 8 bit graphics. I give up. on a slightly diffrent note: a friend of mine was showing me a program called The Art department and when he loaded up an iff, the program was telling him that 24 bit data was being loaded, or somthing that confused me. can someone clear this up for me? <also change the followups since Im sure they wanna keep flames out of csag and graphics out of csaa :-D >
xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Marc Barrett) (03/22/91)
>Where is the slashing? >> It has been slashed as a percentage of total sales. -Marc
robin@vipunen.hut.fi (Jarto 'Robin' Tarpio) (03/22/91)
In article <1991Mar21.012514.16805@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Marc Barrett) writes:
It has been slashed as a percentage of total sales. For the fiscal
year 1990, Commodore invested 3.5% of their total sales in research and
development. According to Commodore's Third Quarter Report, for the
first three quarters of fiscal year 1991, Commodore invested 2.2%
(approximately) of their total sales in research and devlopment. If
this is not a slash, I don't know what is.
Could it be marketing ? Developer support ? We are reading news
written by Commodore people. Their uucp-net isn't free. You
have yourself wanted to see changes and now you are surprised
when the persentages change. It's most imortant that the amount
of money increases and that it's not wasted.
-MB-
/robindaveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (03/22/91)
In article <1991Mar20.194243.11450@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU writes: "Deja, Deja, Deja-vu" -Jimmy Buffett OK, once again, our hero, -MB-, has not only decided he knows just what Commodore is doing, he has once again ignored all the posts by people who do actually know what's going on to straighten him out. What AM I doing wrong? I even try to use nice, simple, one and two syllable words. > Unfortunately, Commodore isn't exactly in a hurry to redesign the >custom chips. The original chips took about five years to design. In general, full custom chips always take lots of time to design. Even from "real" chip companies. Look at Motorola's 68851 or 68040. The '851 (which I used on the A2620) was about five years late. The '040 was far from "on-time". And it wasn't for lack of trying -- Motorola has the most advanced chip technologies going. Plain fact of the matter here is, you don't have the slighest idea what you're talking about when it comes to chip technology. >Commodore has not been investing enough in research and development for the >past five years, and recently slashed what little they were investing. The R&D groups have been growing steadily, and still are to date. Anyone who gets EE Times will probably have seen the ads C='s been running recently. Again, you're confusing Commodore's US Sales and Marketing operations with the Technology groups. There was a reorganization in the US company this year. This had no more to do with the Technology groups than it had to do with the German or UK Sales and Marketing organizations. These are completely different things. > I don't like it any more than anybody else, but this is the harsh and >bitter truth. One man's "harsh and bitter truth" is another man's "foolish and uninformed fiction". > -MB- -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "What works for me might work for you" -Jimmy Buffett
jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) (03/22/91)
In article <1991Mar21.012514.16805@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Mister Clueless) writes: >In article <1991Mar20.224125.10689@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >>In article <1991Mar20.194243.11450@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Mister Clueless) writes: >>> >> What they've been in a hurry to do neither of us know, >>and I do agree that they aren't spending as much as they should >>on R&D, but where the hell do you get the info that Commodore has >>SLASHED R&D? It has not decreased since I've been following the >>stock. It has increased all throughout. Admittedly it is low but >>NOTHING has been slashed. > > It has been slashed as a percentage of total sales. For the fiscal >year 1990, Commodore invested 3.5% of their total sales in research and >development. According to Commodore's Third Quarter Report, for the >first three quarters of fiscal year 1991, Commodore invested 2.2% >(approximately) of their total sales in research and devlopment. If >this is not a slash, I don't know what is. > > -MB- Marc, did it EVER OCCUR to you that Amiga sales have INCREASED?! The R&D might have stayed around the same level, or possibly increased, but remember, Amiga sales have more than DOUBLED over the past year. That would certainly explain the lower numbers. > -- // Joseph Hillenburg/Blackwinter, Secretary, Bloomington Amiga Users Group \X/ jph@valnet.UUCP jph@irie.ais.org jph@gnu.ai.mit.edu "Project: Desert Storm is also known as ``The Mother of All Ass-Kickings.''"
dltaylor@cns.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Dan Taylor) (03/22/91)
IMHO, I could see an intermediate model, between the A500, and the A2000. The A500 is packaged correctly, as a low-end machine, although, tweaking the board design for 1M CHIP standard + 1M CHIP/FAST optional would be nice. The A2000 (or my A2500/30) is a little clunky, but the plethora of slots and drive bays is REALLY nice. I'm down to having only a single XT/AT slot free, and it will be filled, when I decide which of several options to put into it. I think the A1500 (for want of a better name) should be the size of my A1000, complete with "keyboard garage". I should have the ability to install 2Mbyte CHIP, have the clock, an A3000-compatible SCSI interface (I know 16-bit instead of 32, but the same registers, etc.), and 2 sideways (like some of the PC clones) slots, 1 video, 1 ZorroII. They could even be built into old A1000 cases, since an SCSI drive will fit nicely where the KickStart RAM is. If you put the 68000 in exactly the same location as the A1000, even some of the RAM expansion, etc. would be usable. I don't know if the people "down under" have exactly this on their replacement MB. However, I don't have much market research, just the stuff here on the net, plus a few personal discussions, to know whether this would only be a "cannibal", or would actually generate new sales for C=. I do know that there is a tremendous interest in upgrading/preserving A1000's. Maybe C= should do the board/shield/mounts/front cover, and see where that goes. Dan Taylor /* comments here have NOTHING to do with NCR */
davidm@uunet.UU.NET (David S. Masterson) (03/22/91)
>>>>> On 20 Mar 91 22:35:35 GMT, es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) >>>>> said: Ethan> In article <19996@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com Ethan> (Dave Haynie) writes: Dave> In article <Mar.19.21.42.42.1991.16538@remus.rutgers.edu> Dave> lcs@remus.rutgers.edu (Lyle C. Seplowitz) writes: Lyle> Kill the A500 already! Sorry folks, but Commodore needs to replace the Lyle> A500 with a better low-end machine, like an A1500. The A1500 could Lyle> look like a longer version of the A3000. Commodore needs to have a Lyle> low-end machine that is professional as well. A detachable keyboard Lyle> and expansion slots are important. An optional INTERAL hard drive is a Lyle> must. Dave> Well, with all those changes, you're practically an A2000 already, and Dave> certainly no longer a low end machine. The A500 is a low end machine Dave> simply because its configuration is the cheapest way to make an Amiga. Dave> Larger cases, larger power supplies, detachable keyboards, internal hard Dave> drives, and all that jazz cost money. You don't replace a $500 machine Dave> with a $1000 or $1500 machine. Ethan> He does have a point, though. There is no intermediate model, something Ethan> between an A500 and an A2000HD (I don't consider the A2000 a real Ethan> choice for almost anyone, if you want more than the 500 the 2000HD is Ethan> an important jump, IMNSHO). The only thing I see wrong with the A500 is the placement of the expansion port. If something could be done so that most expansions for the A500 don't occupy so much desktop space, I think home users would be very happy. And, ultimately, home users are the people that the A500 (or whatever the low-end Amiga is) has to attract. That means very low price (probably <$300 to begin with) and reasonable and easy expansion when they have the money (expansion devices available in <$300 increments). Bodega Bay has the right idea (BTW, how much does that go for?), but is probably more than the average user wants in one step for their first upgrade to the A500 (but, then again...). If the A590 (the hard drive for the A500, right?) were designed to sit unobtrusively on top of the A500, home users would probably feel better about it because they wouldn't have to (worry about how they will have to) invest in a new desk just to house the computer. The key is that home users will start with the cheapest available model and expect support of that model such that they won't feel orphaned by a company that wasn't attempting to dump something on the market. This means a tight, but simple, low-end "first" model with attractively priced, incremental add-ons. -- ==================================================================== David Masterson Consilium, Inc. (415) 691-6311 640 Clyde Ct. uunet!cimshop!davidm Mtn. View, CA 94043 ==================================================================== "If someone thinks they know what I said, then I didn't say it!"
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (03/22/91)
In article <CIMSHOP!DAVIDM.91Mar21151311@uunet.UU.NET> cimshop!davidm@uunet.UU.NET (David S. Masterson) writes: > >Ethan> He does have a point, though. There is no intermediate model, something >Ethan> between an A500 and an A2000HD (I don't consider the A2000 a real >Ethan> choice for almost anyone, if you want more than the 500 the 2000HD is >Ethan> an important jump, IMNSHO). > >The only thing I see wrong with the A500 is the placement of the expansion >port. If something could be done so that most expansions for the A500 don't >occupy so much desktop space, I think home users would be very happy. And, >ultimately, home users are the people that the A500 (or whatever the low-end >Amiga is) has to attract. That means very low price (probably <$300 to begin >with) and reasonable and easy expansion when they have the money (expansion >devices available in <$300 increments). > I guess I should've explained my problems with the A500 a bit better. 1) Attached keyboard is ugly 2) I like the keyboard on my lap. Impossible here. Just an Ethanism though. 3) You can't put a monitor on top. This is very inconvenient if you don't have much space 4) Very important though is the expandability. Yes, you can expand via the slot at the left, but you are paying a lot for extra casing and power supply, which also looks real ugly and gets even more in the way. If it were possible to put a hard drive INSIDE the case, there would be a big cost savings for those who want an HD. I certainly don't want the A500 to disappear. But there needs to be some model that is right for those who want a machine usable for real applications (i.e. a hard drive) and minimal expandability, in a well-designed machine. That is what I'm looking for. -- Ethan Q: How many Comp Sci majors does it take to change a lightbulb
jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) (03/22/91)
In article <1991Mar22.040419.27268@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >1) Attached keyboard is ugly Yep, actually, I wish that C= would use audible IBM-type keyboards. (The only thing IBM does right IS their keyboards...) >2) I like the keyboard on my lap. Impossible here. Just an >Ethanism though. Gee, I can do this with my old A500! ) (Don't use it much anymore, my 2500 spoiled me ) >3) You can't put a monitor on top. This is very inconvenient if >you don't have much space The 1084 series will fit on top. You just either use the built-in stand or prop up the back end. >4) Very important though is the expandability. Yes, you can >expand via the slot at the left, but you are paying a lot for >extra casing and power supply, which also looks real ugly and >gets even more in the way. Commodore has a nasty habit with weak power supplies. > If it were possible to put a hard drive INSIDE the case, >there would be a big cost savings for those who want an HD. There was an ad in Amigaworld for one of these... > I certainly don't want the A500 to disappear. But there >needs to be some model that is right for those who want a machine >usable for real applications (i.e. a hard drive) and minimal >expandability, in a well-designed machine. That is what I'm >looking for. > > -- Ethan > > >Q: How many Comp Sci majors does it take to change a lightbulb A: 4, one to do it, one to write a flowchart illustrating how it's done, one to complain about the logic errors in the process, and one to go tattling to the teacher about how it was done wrong. -- // Joseph Hillenburg/Blackwinter, Secretary, Bloomington Amiga Users Group \X/ jph@valnet.UUCP jph@irie.ais.org jph@gnu.ai.mit.edu "Project: Desert Storm is also known as ``The Mother of All Ass-Kickings.''"
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (03/22/91)
In article <N&2-=9%@irie.ais.org> jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) writes: >In article <1991Mar22.040419.27268@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > >> If it were possible to put a hard drive INSIDE the case, >>there would be a big cost savings for those who want an HD. > >There was an ad in Amigaworld for one of these... > Yes, but I'm sure it is a 2" drive, which means you are paying quite a bit. Besides, I've looked. There isn't any room in there! I don't know how all these companies do it! But I DEFINITELY don't like sticking lots of things betweent the chips and the motherboard. There are enough devices out there that go between the 68000 and the motherboard that.... (well, I'm sure you could do something with them all 8) It could be redesigned to have room for something like that. Even the Classic can do it! >-- > // Joseph Hillenburg/Blackwinter, Secretary, Bloomington Amiga Users Group > \X/ jph@valnet.UUCP jph@irie.ais.org jph@gnu.ai.mit.edu > "Project: Desert Storm is also known as ``The Mother of All Ass-Kickings.''" -- Ethan Q: How many Comp Sci majors does it take to change a lightbulb A: None. It's a hardware problem.
sss10@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Napalm) (03/22/91)
ICD is selling hard drives for the 500 which are the same HD's that are used in laptops which allow them to be inside the case of a 500. however at Amiexpo I did not see an amiga 500 with the case closed that had contained one of these hard drives. a novel idea but i wanna know how fast they are <and is $600 expensive for a 20 MB hard drive?>
andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) (03/23/91)
In article <1991Mar20.194243.11450@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU writes: > Unfortunately, Commodore isn't exactly in a hurry to redesign the >custom chips. Commodore has not been investing enough in research and >development for the past five years, and recently slashed what little >they were investing. Thus, I would not expect any improvements at all There you go again. Making up stories out of whole cloth. R&D has not been slashed recently. I would know. But you seem to get some particular joy out of spreading false rumors. I'd really love to know who you really are, and what your problem is. andy -- andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy Commodore-Amiga, Inc. "To finish the project, all we need is a derranged programmer", said Master Li. "It is fortunate indeed that we are blessed with an overabundance." Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share. I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
mykes@sega0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) (03/23/91)
In article <873@cns.SanDiego.NCR.COM> dltaylor@cns.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Dan Taylor) writes: >IMHO, I could see an intermediate model, between the A500, and the A2000. >The A500 is packaged correctly, as a low-end machine, although, tweaking >the board design for 1M CHIP standard + 1M CHIP/FAST optional would be nice. >The A2000 (or my A2500/30) is a little clunky, but the plethora of slots >and drive bays is REALLY nice. I'm down to having only a single XT/AT slot >free, and it will be filled, when I decide which of several options to put >into it. I think the A1500 (for want of a better name) should be the size >of my A1000, complete with "keyboard garage". I should have the ability to >install 2Mbyte CHIP, have the clock, an A3000-compatible SCSI interface >(I know 16-bit instead of 32, but the same registers, etc.), and 2 sideways >(like some of the PC clones) slots, 1 video, 1 ZorroII. They could even be >built into old A1000 cases, since an SCSI drive will fit nicely where the >KickStart RAM is. If you put the 68000 in exactly the same location as >the A1000, even some of the RAM expansion, etc. would be usable. I don't >know if the people "down under" have exactly this on their replacement MB. > >Dan Taylor >/* comments here have NOTHING to do with NCR */ No matter how CBM repackages the Amiga, software will still have to be written to run on a 512K machine because of all the machines that have been sold to date. What CBM might consider is a ridiculously low 1Meg upgrage policy on the Amiga 500 so developers could expect this much out of the vast majority of machines instead of a few. -- ******************************************************* * Assembler Language separates the men from the boys. * *******************************************************
dalbec@sakura.ucdavis.edu (Gabe Dalbec) (03/23/91)
>been sold to date. What CBM might consider is a ridiculously low 1Meg >upgrage policy on the Amiga 500 so developers could expect this much >out of the vast majority of machines instead of a few. > Don't you consider $50 ridiculously low? There are plenty of 512k expansions from 3rd party manufactures that are around 50 bucks. Anyone that doesn't have 1meg by now doesn't diserve to run any good software. -gabe dalbec@sakura.ucdavis.edu
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (03/23/91)
In article <1991Mar21.012514.16805@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU writes: > It has been slashed as a percentage of total sales. I see. You're complaining that Commodore sales are finally starting to see some real improvement. Get a bloody clue. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
pswanson@umvlsi.ecs.umass.edu (Paul Swanson) (03/24/91)
In article <1991Mar21.012514.16805@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU writes: > It has been slashed as a percentage of total sales. For the fiscal >year 1990, Commodore invested 3.5% of their total sales in research and >development. According to Commodore's Third Quarter Report, for the >first three quarters of fiscal year 1991, Commodore invested 2.2% >(approximately) of their total sales in research and devlopment. If >this is not a slash, I don't know what is. > > -MB- > Before I thought MB was just a whiner but this post proves to me that he is in fact an idiot. I usually try to give people the benefit of the doubt but MB has just lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned. I don't think there is a single person on the net that would like to work for a company which adjusted its R&D budget every quarter to maintain a fixed percentage of sales. This would be idiotic. I think MB should stop giving business advice to Commodore. Paul.
mykes@sega0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) (03/24/91)
In article <8659@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> dalbec@sakura.ucdavis.edu (Gabe Dalbec) writes: >>been sold to date. What CBM might consider is a ridiculously low 1Meg >>upgrage policy on the Amiga 500 so developers could expect this much >>out of the vast majority of machines instead of a few. >> >Don't you consider $50 ridiculously low? There are plenty of 512k >expansions from 3rd party manufactures that are around 50 bucks. Anyone >that doesn't have 1meg by now doesn't diserve to run any good software. > >-gabe >dalbec@sakura.ucdavis.edu Yes, $50 is an awesome price! However, the vast majority of machines are 512K Amiga 500's still, so why aren't people upgrading to 1 Meg? -- ******************************************************* * Assembler Language separates the men from the boys. * *******************************************************
davidm@uunet.UU.NET (David S. Masterson) (03/25/91)
>>>>> On 22 Mar 91 04:04:19 GMT, es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) said: Ethan> In article <CIMSHOP!DAVIDM.91Mar21151311@uunet.UU.NET> Ethan> cimshop!davidm@uunet.UU.NET (David S. Masterson) writes: David> The only thing I see wrong with the A500 is the placement of the David> expansion port. If something could be done so that most expansions for David> the A500 don't occupy so much desktop space, I think home users would David> be very happy. And, ultimately, home users are the people that the David> A500 (or whatever the low-end Amiga is) has to attract. That means David> very low price (probably <$300 to begin with) and reasonable and easy David> expansion when they have the money (expansion devices available in David> <$300 increments). Ethan> I guess I should've explained my problems with the A500 a bit better. Ethan> 1) Attached keyboard is ugly Ethan> 2) I like the keyboard on my lap. Impossible here. Just an Ethan> Ethanism though. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder -- to the home user, low price can make many things forgivable. And that is where the A500 has to focus! Ethan> 3) You can't put a monitor on top. This is very inconvenient if Ethan> you don't have much space True, but many computer desktops take that into account. Ethan> 4) Very important though is the expandability. Yes, you can Ethan> expand via the slot at the left, but you are paying a lot for Ethan> extra casing and power supply, which also looks real ugly and Ethan> gets even more in the way. Yes, this extra space is the real problem. Not many (cheap) computer desktops take that into account. This raises the cost to the first-time computer buyer. If the A500 could be designed better for that, great. Ethan> If it were possible to put a hard drive INSIDE the case, Ethan> there would be a big cost savings for those who want an HD. It might be that the case should be expanded to allow internal addition of a hard drive (assuming that most first-time Amiga buyers simply want the basic computer with a hard drive). Ethan> I certainly don't want the A500 to disappear. But there Ethan> needs to be some model that is right for those who want a machine Ethan> usable for real applications (i.e. a hard drive) and minimal Ethan> expandability, in a well-designed machine. That is what I'm Ethan> looking for. The A500 should be this machine, though! It should meet the most minimum capabilities and have a low price for the first time buyers. It should also be readily expandable to this in-between state without forcing the first time buyer to give up what he already has. -- ==================================================================== David Masterson Consilium, Inc. (415) 691-6311 640 Clyde Ct. uunet!cimshop!davidm Mtn. View, CA 94043 ==================================================================== "If someone thinks they know what I said, then I didn't say it!"
holgerl@amiux.UUCP (Holger Lubitz) (03/25/91)
>Ahem. Didn't you hear about CeBit in Germany just this weekend? >The A2410 with the TI34010 chip in it is OUT. 24-bit color, here we come! No, it isn't. Though there WERE two of them running under Color X on the booth, I doubt that it is ready to ship. There aren't even AmigaDOS drivers for this card ready yet, you could only use it under Unix. Besides of that, nice hardware, especially when connected to that nice Eizo 9070S they had there. >And no, I don't have prices on these things. Commodore? In Germany, the A3000T is planned to be 700 DM more expensive than the models in the desktop case. That would be around $435, but since prices in the States used to be cheaper than around here, they probably will also be cheaper in this case. Best regards, Holger -- Holger Lubitz | holgerl@amiux.uucp Kl. Drakenburger Str. 24 | holgerl@amiux.han.de D-W-3070 Nienburg | cbmvax.commodore.com!cbmehq!cbmger!amiux!holgerl
holgerl@amiux.UUCP (Holger Lubitz) (03/25/91)
In article <873@cns.SanDiego.NCR.COM> dltaylor@cns.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Dan Taylor) writes: >I think the A1500 (for want of a better name) should be the size >of my A1000, complete with "keyboard garage". I should have the ability to >install 2Mbyte CHIP, have the clock, an A3000-compatible SCSI interface >(I know 16-bit instead of 32, but the same registers, etc.), and 2 sideways >(like some of the PC clones) slots, 1 video, 1 ZorroII. They could even be >built into old A1000 cases, since an SCSI drive will fit nicely where the >KickStart RAM is. (Sorry for the long quote, but I just wanted to repeat this brilliant idea once again...) I also consider myself one of those 'die-hard A1000 owners'. And if Commodore should ever think about a new Amiga between the low-end A500 and the high-end A3000(T), they should definitely consider designing a new board into the old A1000 casing. This might even SAVE money, since there would be no need to design a new casing. We would once again have a REALLY NICE LOOKING computer after the original A1000 and the A3000, no C128-meets-Atari-1040-like A500, and no AT-Clone-like A2000. It seems that you HAVE to care for the case design of a new computer nowadays. Look at a Mac (aaargh, Apple, I know, but they sure know how to design nice cases), or look at a NeXTstation (especially the nice monitor). I would sure be willing to spend several bucks more on a computer (well, actually that would be DM since I live in Germany, but anyway), if I got a nicer case in return. Inside the case, they might as well consider to put in a 68020. Synchronous design would be enough, lets have this one running at 14.32 MHz with 32-bit-RAM-access, and you would already have a computer that is 2-3 times faster than an original 68000-based Amiga. Memory options could include 16 DIP-Sockets for Chip-Memory like in the A3000, with 8 Mega-DIPs already fitted, giving 1 meg of Chip Memory, and maybe 16 ZIP-Sockets for Fast-Memory, giving the possibility to put in another 2 megs of fast memory with Mega-ZIPs, or 8 megs with 4-Mega-Zips. (Nearly every 286-Clone, all 386- and 486-Clones, most of the Macs, and every NeXT offer internal memory expansion capabilities. On the Amiga-Side, only the A3000 is expandable without wasting a slot, though there are SCSI-Controllers and accelerator boards with memory expansion on board) There would even be space for two floppys, since the drives are already less than half the height of the ones that were available back in 1985. And with a mounting bay for a 3,5"-HH-harddrive (which could be placed where the kickstart-piggyback was) you could mount up to 520 MB inside (using the new Fujitsu 2624). Sounds like a dream machine ? No, its actually possible, but only if Commodore sees a market for this one. Best regards, Holger -- Holger Lubitz | holgerl@amiux.uucp Kl. Drakenburger Str. 24 | holgerl@amiux.han.de D-W-3070 Nienburg | cbmvax.commodore.com!cbmehq!cbmger!amiux!holgerl
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (03/25/91)
In article <CIMSHOP!DAVIDM.91Mar24140144@uunet.UU.NET> cimshop!davidm@uunet.UU.NET (David S. Masterson) writes: > >Ethan> I certainly don't want the A500 to disappear. But there >Ethan> needs to be some model that is right for those who want a machine >Ethan> usable for real applications (i.e. a hard drive) and minimal >Ethan> expandability, in a well-designed machine. That is what I'm >Ethan> looking for. > >The A500 should be this machine, though! It should meet the most minimum >capabilities and have a low price for the first time buyers. It should also >be readily expandable to this in-between state without forcing the first time >buyer to give up what he already has. But to add these abilities to the A500 will only raise its price. Creating a new machine doesn't make the A500 LESS expandable, it simply gives another mid-end choice for people who are looking for such a machine. These are the people who would otherwise buy a 286 PC clone or a Mac Classic 2/40 or LC. You can currently get a Mac Classic 2/40 (2MB RAM, 40MB HD) on educational discount for $1,150. That is almost impossible to reach with an A500 unless you use a TV. And yes, I know all the comparison issues as to why the Amiga would be better, but yet somehow all those Macs keep selling so fast Apple can't make them fast enough. >-- >==================================================================== >David Masterson Consilium, Inc. >(415) 691-6311 640 Clyde Ct. >uunet!cimshop!davidm Mtn. View, CA 94043 >==================================================================== >"If someone thinks they know what I said, then I didn't say it!" -- Ethan Q: How many Comp Sci majors does it take to change a lightbulb A: None. It's a hardware problem.
sss10@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Napalm) (03/25/91)
In article <1762@umvlsi.ecs.umass.edu> pswanson@umvlsi.ecs.umass.edu (Paul Swanson) writes: >In article <1991Mar21.012514.16805@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU writes: >> It has been slashed as a percentage of total sales. For the fiscal >>year 1990, Commodore invested 3.5% of their total sales in research and >>development. According to Commodore's Third Quarter Report, for the >>first three quarters of fiscal year 1991, Commodore invested 2.2% >>(approximately) of their total sales in research and devlopment. If >>this is not a slash, I don't know what is. >> >> -MB- >> >Before I thought MB was just a whiner but this post proves to me that he >is in fact an idiot. I usually try to give people the benefit of the >doubt but MB has just lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned. I >don't think there is a single person on the net that would like to work >for a company which adjusted its R&D budget every quarter to maintain a >fixed percentage of sales. This would be idiotic. I think MB should >stop giving business advice to Commodore. > >Paul. Well, just like he says "If this is not a slash, I don't know what is." He's right for once. He doesnt know what a slash is. If Commodore spent less money on R&D this year than last, that is a slash. However if sales increase faster than money spent on R&D then you will see the R&D percentage of sales figure drop, which is quite possible. You could increase spending but MB will still say cbm is slashing cutting. His logic is amazing.
kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (03/25/91)
>>> It has been slashed as a percentage of total sales. For the fiscal >>>year 1990, Commodore invested 3.5% of their total sales in research and >>>development. According to Commodore's Third Quarter Report, for the >>>first three quarters of fiscal year 1991, Commodore invested 2.2% >>>(approximately) of their total sales in research and devlopment. If >>>this is not a slash, I don't know what is. It's not a slash if sales went up suddenly. Do you have those figures, too? Also, we'd need to know R&D vs sales for each quarter. Three quarters may or may not have been long enough to change their R&D thinking. Since I'm no expert in these financial matters, perhaps someone could also post percentages common to other companies. I've heard before (here?) that 8% is more the norm, but do not know. Anyone? thx! kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> PS: Funny. If R&D vs sales had gone UP, I'd bet half the posters would be arguing the other side of things, eh? :-) :-) Such is life.
gunda@cbmehq.UUCP (Gunda O'Neal CATS Europe) (03/26/91)
In article <ROBIN.91Mar21190040@vipunen.hut.fi> robin@vipunen.hut.fi (Jarto 'Robin' Tarpio) writes: > development. According to Commodore's Third Quarter Report, for the 3rd quarter ends March 31. > first three quarters of fiscal year 1991, Commodore invested 2.2% > (approximately) of their total sales in research and devlopment. If > this is not a slash, I don't know what is. > > Could it be marketing ? Developer support ? We are reading news :-) for Europe ! -- Gunda O'Neal, CATS- EUROPE AMIGA Developer Support Administration UUCP: {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmehq!gunda "If you try to please everybody,somebody is not going to like it"
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (03/26/91)
In article <N&2-=9%@irie.ais.org> jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) writes: >In article <1991Mar22.040419.27268@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >>1) Attached keyboard is ugly >Yep, actually, I wish that C= would use audible IBM-type keyboards. (The only >thing IBM does right IS their keyboards...) Ugh! Say it ain't so! Someone actually likes those IBM keyboards?!? The PC-AT keyboard layout was designed by the devil itself. A giant CAPS-LOCK key, and the CTRL key off in never-never land. The only proper keyboard is something reasonably DEC VT100-ish. >>but you are paying a lot for extra casing and power supply, >Commodore has a nasty habit with weak power supplies. Depends on the computer. The A500 is a $500 computer for a reason. Power supplies cost real money. Same reason the C64 and C128 had low output power supplies. The A2000's 200W+ supply is one of the reasons the A2000 costs so much more for the same basic computing power. 200W is not "weak", even for a machine is all those slots. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "That's me in the corner, that's me in the spotlight" -R.E.M.
jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) (03/27/91)
In article <20124@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >In article <N&2-=9%@irie.ais.org> jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) writes: >>In article <1991Mar22.040419.27268@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >>>1) Attached keyboard is ugly > >>Yep, actually, I wish that C= would use audible IBM-type keyboards. (The only >>thing IBM does right IS their keyboards...) > >Ugh! Say it ain't so! Someone actually likes those IBM keyboards?!? The >PC-AT keyboard layout was designed by the devil itself. A giant CAPS-LOCK key, >and the CTRL key off in never-never land. The only proper keyboard is >something reasonably DEC VT100-ish. No! No! No! I *like* the Amiga keyboard layout, with the exceptions: Backspace is too small Capslock can be hit often when trying to hit the 'A' key. I meant, the actual microswitch-like connecters that IBM uses in their new keyboards, which makes the 'click' sound. > >>>but you are paying a lot for extra casing and power supply, > >>Commodore has a nasty habit with weak power supplies. > >Depends on the computer. The A500 is a $500 computer for a reason. Power >supplies cost real money. Same reason the C64 and C128 had low output power >supplies. The A2000's 200W+ supply is one of the reasons the A2000 costs so >much more for the same basic computing power. 200W is not "weak", even for a >machine is all those slots. > > Yes, but the A500 power supply could be beefed up at least a few watts. >-- >Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" > {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy > "That's me in the corner, that's me in the spotlight" -R.E.M. -- // Joseph Hillenburg/Blackwinter, Secretary, Bloomington Amiga Users Group \X/ jph@valnet.UUCP jph@irie.ais.org jph@gnu.ai.mit.edu "Project: Desert Storm is also known as ``The Mother of All Ass-Kickings.''"
davidm@uunet.UU.NET (David S. Masterson) (03/27/91)
>>>>> On 24 Mar 91 23:31:47 GMT, es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) >>>>> said: Ethan> In article <CIMSHOP!DAVIDM.91Mar24140144@uunet.UU.NET> Ethan> cimshop!davidm@uunet.UU.NET (David S. Masterson) writes: David> The A500 should be this machine, though! It should meet the most David> minimum capabilities and have a low price for the first time buyers. David> It should also be readily expandable to this in-between state without David> forcing the first time buyer to give up what he already has. Ethan> But to add these abilities to the A500 will only raise its price. Ethan> Creating a new machine doesn't make the A500 LESS expandable, it simply Ethan> gives another mid-end choice for people who are looking for such a Ethan> machine. These are the people who would otherwise buy a 286 PC clone or Ethan> a Mac Classic 2/40 or LC. Actually, I don't think adding what's needed to the A500 need affect the A500 *at all*. What I think is needed for the A500 is a simple expansion for a hard disk (maybe with a little expanded memory). Basically, the A590. The problem with the A590 is how much room it requires on the desktop which affects buying decisions in that users have to consider the expense of a new desk to put the Amiga on as well as the cost of the A590. A hard drive is most likely going to be the only add-on requiring tight integration with the system that basic "home" users will add to their A500 (modems, printers, etc. can sit somewhere else and be cabled up). Many home users probably will not go even that far choosing instead to use the A500 as a "game" machine and buying floppies of games (you may hate the label, but to many people *any* PC is a glorified Nintendo). This should not be frowned on as a sale is a sale. To attract these people, though, the price must be pushed down as much as possible. Basically, say to them "I'm cheap, buy me" and then, when they do, say "look what else I can do for just a *wee* bit more". -- ==================================================================== David Masterson Consilium, Inc. (415) 691-6311 640 Clyde Ct. uunet!cimshop!davidm Mtn. View, CA 94043 ==================================================================== "If someone thinks they know what I said, then I didn't say it!"
dlb5404@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) (03/27/91)
In article <20124@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >Ugh! Say it ain't so! Someone actually likes those IBM keyboards?!? The >PC-AT keyboard layout was designed by the devil itself. A giant CAPS-LOCK key, >and the CTRL key off in never-never land. The only proper keyboard is >something reasonably DEC VT100-ish. Gotta disagree with you on this one, Dave. I don't care for the original IBM PC keyboard (and the AT keyboard), but the current 101-key model has a superb feel. MUCH better than the 500's. (The 2000 has a much better keyboard than the 500.) The only layout qualms I have with the IBM keyboard is the ctrl key next to the space bar and the function keys along the top (along the side is more convenient -- you can alt- and ctrl- them with one hand). I have yet to see a DEC keyboard that isn't mushy or too stiff. --Daryl Biberdorf, dlb5404@tamuts.tamu.edu Texas A&M University
greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Harp) (03/27/91)
In article <13794@helios.TAMU.EDU> dlb5404@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) writes: >Gotta disagree with you on this one, Dave. I don't care for the original >IBM PC keyboard (and the AT keyboard), but the current 101-key model >has a superb feel. MUCH better than the 500's. (The 2000 has a much >better keyboard than the 500.) The only layout qualms I have with the >IBM keyboard is the ctrl key next to the space bar and the function keys >along the top (along the side is more convenient -- you can alt- and ctrl- >them with one hand). Well, I've used a good number of PC style keyboards, and I have yet to see a reasonable layout. The latest monstrosity puts the Ctrl key way at the bottom and requires a manual-contortionist for comfortable operation. Imagine swapping your left-Amiga key with your Ctrl key and continuing normal operation. For a key so often-used as Ctrl, they made it too awkward for me. Plus, they made the CapsLock huge to make up for the empty space, so you get caps instead of controls. There are a couple nice features. They mirror the Ctrl and Alt keys on the right side (where we have right-Amiga and Alt) to allow for right-hand one-handed Ctrl operation without a stretch. That's kind of nice, but I could live without it if they would move the Ctrl key back. As for keyboard feels, we all like what we're used to, don't we? I like the A500's keyboard, but I've been using it for about 4 years. I don't like my roommate's 2000 keyboard. It has the crispness I can sometimes appreciate, but it feels a bit clumsy to me. That's about the best I can describe it. It's also a pretty bad dust magnet (although mine is only slighty better about that). Besides, my A500's keyboard is external, isn't yours? :) Greg -- Greg Harp |"How I wish, how I wish you were here. We're just two |lost souls swimming in a fishbowl, year after year, greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu|running over the same ground. What have we found? s609@cs.utexas.edu |The same old fears. Wish you were here." - Pink Floyd
groenewo@fwi.uva.nl (Ferry van het Groenewoud) (03/27/91)
jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) writes: >In article <20124@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >>In article <N&2-=9%@irie.ais.org> jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) writes: >>>In article <1991Mar22.040419.27268@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >>>>1) Attached keyboard is ugly >> >>>Yep, actually, I wish that C= would use audible IBM-type keyboards. (The only >>>thing IBM does right IS their keyboards...) >> >>Ugh! Say it ain't so! Someone actually likes those IBM keyboards?!? The >>PC-AT keyboard layout was designed by the devil itself. A giant CAPS-LOCK key, >>and the CTRL key off in never-never land. (...) I couldn't agree more to this. >No! No! No! I *like* the Amiga keyboard layout, with the exceptions: IMHO, nothing is wrong with the layout. It's perfect for me. >I meant, the actual microswitch-like connecters that IBM uses >in their new keyboards, which makes the 'click' sound. IMNSHO, I think the click that the IBM keyboards make is highly irritating, and useless. I think the amigakeyboard is one of the best, if not the best I laid my fingers on. >>-- >>Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" >> {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy >> "That's me in the corner, that's me in the spotlight" -R.E.M. >-- > // Joseph Hillenburg/Blackwinter, Secretary, Bloomington Amiga Users Group > \X/ jph@valnet.UUCP jph@irie.ais.org jph@gnu.ai.mit.edu > "Project: Desert Storm is also known as ``The Mother of All Ass-Kickings.''" -- Mac. The noise of a wrong calibration. PS/2. You can't see the new thing. IBM. The toys of a dead generation. Sun. You can't feel the beating. NeXT. The choice cause of bad information. Atari. You'll need some healing. Amiga. For boys with real imagination. __ Amiga. You can reach the ceiling. __/ / Ferry van het Groenewoud \__/ groenewo@fwi.uva.nl
<DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu> (03/27/91)
In article <20124@cbmvax.commodore.com>, daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) says: >Depends on the computer. The A500 is a $500 computer for a reason. Power >supplies cost real money. Same reason the C64 and C128 had low output power >supplies. The A2000's 200W+ supply is one of the reasons the A2000 costs so >much more for the same basic computing power. 200W is not "weak", even for a >machine is all those slots. Ok, how about selling the 2000 motherboard for $500 (the cost of the A500 as stated above) and letting everyone buy those "expensive" parts from Tiawanese clone people for $50. Leave out all the slots, too; I can buy connecters from Digi-Key for a couple bucks. (That should lower the price $100 at least, as everyone knows, computers with many slots are expensive). Yes this is a marketing parody. :-) -- Dan Babcock
vsolanoy@ozonebbs.UUCP (Victor Solanoy) (03/30/91)
> Ugh! Say it ain't so! Someone actually likes those IBM keyboards?!? The
I like the feel of the IBM keyboards... the key clicking sort of gets
annoying after a while, but the keyboard has a very nice feel to it. Very
firm feel.
Victorgaletti@uservx.afwl.af.mil (04/04/91)
>>SLASHED R&D? It has not decreased since I've been following the >>stock. It has increased all throughout. Admittedly it is low but >>NOTHING has been slashed. > > It has been slashed as a percentage of total sales. For the fiscal > year 1990, Commodore invested 3.5% of their total sales in research and > development. According to Commodore's Third Quarter Report, for the > first three quarters of fiscal year 1991, Commodore invested 2.2% > (approximately) of their total sales in research and devlopment. If > this is not a slash, I don't know what is. Correct. You don't know what is. > > -MB- > >> >> -- Ethan -Ralph