kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (04/08/91)
[Moved over from <c.s.a.hardware> "DCTV+CDTV = A SMASH HIT"] es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >> mikep@hpmwtd.HP.COM (Mike Powell) writes: >>> As CDTV is pointed primarily as a NTSC device, DCTV would be right at >>> home in the CDTV, and would give it an AMAZING jump on the competition... >> >> A good idea, but I'm afraid that it would hardly "give it an amazing jump" >> on CD-I, which is CDTV's competition. In fact, not even close. >> [ Specs on CD-I video deleted ] >> To be blunt, CD-I gfx is what the basic Amiga gfx should've been by now. >> Perhaps CBM should use CD-I chips. best - kevin > > Kevin, you should take a look at the CDTV before being so judgemental. The thread was about making CDTV gfx better than the capabilities of its competition. To do that, you first have to understand the competition. So I posted specs. An incomplete CD-I summary is: A 68xxx computer with _dual_ video subsystems, each of which has a copper and blitter, DYUV/3/4/7/8/15-bit gfx out of at least 4 million colors; plus hardware special effects between the two and an optional external input. > Yes, the graphics modes are better. But Gail Wellington made a good point: > Who's going to buy a home machine that can't play games? Remember all the discussion about home players on CIS? A lot of people can't imagine paying all that $$ for a game machine, either ;-). Why not just buy a Nintendo or A500 instead? Interactive TV goes beyond games. Nevertheless, whatever gave you the idea that CD-I won't have games? Sierra was demoing CD-I titles long before CDTV, for instance. > Where the blitter? Sigh. Read the specs again. Still, pre-recorded animations even on the Amiga don't use the blitter. But did I mention that CD-I video chips also have a PIXEL calculator onboard? Not for simplistic BIT data, but for PIXELs (4 or 8 bit each) word data manipulation. Very fast and powerful. > The advantage that CDTV has is that it is an Amiga. It has the whole > library of Amiga software if you add a diskdrive. Yes, I've said many times that this is a slight advantage IF it allows CDTV titles to be more easily created. So far that's not very clear. You're also thinking like an Amiga owner, which is _not_ most people. Most home consumers don't even know what an Amiga is, and won't care. The whole idea is not to even think of these machines as computers. But they might care that CDTV is incompatible with all other players. Yet the major sticking point to me still is: it would make more sense to buy an Amiga and add a CDROM drive, than to buy a CDTV and then add on the disk drive, keyboard, mouse, etc... if expansion is your plan. > To make it even better, without any additional hardware > they were doing 1/4 screen (1/2 x 1/2) animation in HAM in 12fps. Nothing special there. Remember, I've seen both CD-I and Amiga gfx. I own both an Amiga and a computer which uses some of the CD-I chips. The Amiga has no corner on colorful animation. Welcome to the 90's. > The big-names are developing for it, including Grolier's, > Sieera On-Line and Psygnosis. I really don't see how CD-I can > possibly succeed. The Amiga operating system has had 4-5 years of > thorough in-use testing and there are already lots of programmers > familiar with programming it. CD-I isn't shipping. It seems like > it keeps getting new and new screen resolutions and nothing ships. Over ten companies are making players; about 200 companies are creating titles; the OS core has been in use since 1983, the CD-I version since 1986; CD-I players have been used around the world for almost a year in business. > Also, Commodore can cut prices a lot better than the CD-I > people can, the CDTV is made of already mass-produced contents. CD-I backers are the largest consumer electronics companies in the world. Even Motorola (CD-I uses the 680x0) is creating new/cheaper CD-I chipsets. The same companies who gave us $150 VCRs will be giving us cheap CD-I players with a large _variety_ of features and configurations (including handheld players, automobile map systems, expansion components, etc). > CD-I was delayed too long. I'd recommend you look at CDTV > and its applications before condemning them. That's like saying the 68030 Amigas were "delayed too long" to sell. Nope. A few months between introductions (Apr vs Sep) won't make much difference. I didn't condemn CDTV or its applications. What I _have_ pointed out are some of CD-I's hardware and market advantages. What you buy is up to you. best - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (04/09/91)
In article <1991Apr8.085845.24662@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: > A 68xxx computer with _dual_ video subsystems, each of which has a copper >and blitter, DYUV/3/4/7/8/15-bit gfx out of at least 4 million colors; plus >hardware special effects between the two and an optional external input. > I take these on faith. I myself have seen no information at all about CD-I from anywhere. 8-) >> Yes, the graphics modes are better. But Gail Wellington made a good point: >> Who's going to buy a home machine that can't play games? > > Remember all the discussion about home players on CIS? A lot of people >can't imagine paying all that $$ for a game machine, either ;-). Why >not just buy a Nintendo or A500 instead? Interactive TV goes beyond games. >Nevertheless, whatever gave you the idea that CD-I won't have games? >Sierra was demoing CD-I titles long before CDTV, for instance. > You're using the argument that if it isn't one extreme it is the other. Either people have to only want games or want none. That isn't the case. True applications will be crucial for its success, but I don't believe people will buy one of these systems (either one) unless they also play good games. People will be shelling out a lot of money, and they are certainly going to want the most they can get. >> The advantage that CDTV has is that it is an Amiga. It has the whole >> library of Amiga software if you add a diskdrive. > > Yes, I've said many times that this is a slight advantage IF it allows >CDTV titles to be more easily created. So far that's not very clear. It has two clear advantages, the strength of those advantages is what is the question. One is that the applications can be developed on a 2500 or 3000 with a big HD and then placed on a CD. That's what is being done. CDTV runs a modified WB1.3 and has the CD mounted as a file system, so it is truly looked at by the CDTV/A500 as a big HD. > You're also thinking like an Amiga owner, which is _not_ most people. >Most home consumers don't even know what an Amiga is, and won't care. >The whole idea is not to even think of these machines as computers. >But they might care that CDTV is incompatible with all other players. CDTV is its own product line, so the Amiga's popularity isn't essential. CDTV is available. It will be throughout California and Chicago in quantity (it is already available in limited quantity) in a week. Two more weeks and they'll add from their list of I believe 7 major cities. When the ads come out, then everyone will know what a CDTV is (if they do it right 8). > Yet the major sticking point to me still is: it would make more sense >to buy an Amiga and add a CDROM drive, than to buy a CDTV and then add >on the disk drive, keyboard, mouse, etc... if expansion is your plan. > Right. So just do it! CBM is making an A500 add-on, and the Xetec drive was able to run all but one CDTV application that was available at the show (for 2000 and 3000 owners). So, CDTV can be bought by those who don't want a real computer, those who might want one in the future. Also, CDTV applications can be run on, and sold for, the entire line of Amiga computers. That is an installed base of 2.5 million machines. (I do know that they have to buy the CD-ROM first). -- Ethan Q: How many Comp Sci majors does it take to change a lightbulb A: None. It's a hardware problem.
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (04/09/91)
In article <1991Apr8.085845.24662@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: > >> The advantage that CDTV has is that it is an Amiga. It has the whole >> library of Amiga software if you add a diskdrive. > > Yes, I've said many times that this is a slight advantage IF it allows >CDTV titles to be more easily created. So far that's not very clear. Oh, developers already received long ago the guidelines how to make up a normal Amiga for a CDTV development platform. It's easy. >But they might care that CDTV is incompatible with all other players. The CDTV is NOT "incompatible with all other players". It's one of the plusses of AmigaOS that you can use various file systems. So the CDTV CAN read HighSierra AND ISO9660 (or what was the number). And as CD-I runs also on 680x0, perhaps someone succedes to do an emulator of a CD-I system? (Ok, sounds difficult, as they also have many custom chips, but who knows.) And perhaps someone also ports IBeM, the new PC emulator, to the CDTV and then we can use all the PC CD-ROMs. Or how about AMAX on the CDTV and running Mac CD-ROMs? I think you get the picture: Amiga is the world champion of emulations, and so is CDTV (or will be). > Yet the major sticking point to me still is: it would make more sense >to buy an Amiga and add a CDROM drive, than to buy a CDTV and then add >on the disk drive, keyboard, mouse, etc... if expansion is your plan. Yes, all possible in the future, I believe. But sure much more expensive than a plain CDTV plus perhaps a disk drive and a keyboard. Hmm, let's see... :-) -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (04/10/91)
In <1991Apr8.181613.5507@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >In article <1991Apr8.085845.24662@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: > >> A 68xxx computer with _dual_ video subsystems, each of which has a copper >>and blitter, DYUV/3/4/7/8/15-bit gfx out of at least 4 million colors; plus >>hardware special effects between the two and an optional external input. >> > I take these on faith. I myself have seen no information >at all about CD-I from anywhere. 8-) Thanks for the faith ;-). I might be wrong about the blitter being standard, however. No biggie, still leaves the pixel logic. Let me check up on it. As for having "seen no information", I'm not really surprised, altho many people have heard of CD-I. As with CDTV, you have to look. Read EDN, BYTE, Popular Science, or cruise the cdrom and multimedia groups on various nets. I may post references later, but as a very simple start: casual readers should check out Amazing <Amiga> Computing, May 1990, p40, CD-I vs CDTV. Intensely interested readers can buy the book "Compact Disc-Interactive, A Designer's Overview", McGraw-Hill 1988, ISBN 0-07-049816-4. Hackers can call Signetics and order docs for the SCC68070 and SCC66470B chips. > [CDTV] has two clear advantages, the strength of those advantages is > what is the question. One is that the applications can be developed on > a 2500 or 3000 with a big HD and then placed on a CD. That's what is > being done. CDTV runs a modified WB1.3 and has the CD mounted as a > file system, so it is truly looked at by the CDTV/A500 as a big HD. Umm, was that one advantage or two? Yes, that's apparently what's being done, and that's why I'm now hearing backroom horror stories about converted discs: Super-smooth titles require that close attention be paid to exactly WHERE on a CDROM information is stored, because CDROMs are pigs compared to HDs. It's almost a science unto itself to interleave sectors of the audio/video information. Developing/testing an interactive CDROM application requires perfect emulation of a CDROM, in order to know how it will actually playback. That's what CD-I developers do. You do NOT make it look like "a big HD". > So, CDTV can be bought by those who don't want a real computer, those who > might want one in the future. Also, CDTV applications can be run on, and > sold for, the entire line of Amiga computers. That is an installed base of > 2.5 million machines. (I do know that they have to buy the CD-ROM first). I've said before that CDTV will benefit current and future Amiga+CDROM owners by enticing Amiga disc ports, so I agree with your second sentence. I mildly disagree that common consumers will consider the future computer angle. Consider: mass retailers aren't going to point that out. And you sure can't put "Expandable into a real home computer!" on the side of the box... you'd scare away the exact market you're trying to reach! <g> The _point_ of these systems is that they are an _audio/visual component_. Do you think people want to tear apart their setup, then move the player over to a desk where they can plug in a monitor and keyboard? That's like selling an intercom by saying "Expandable to a real telephone... if you unplug it and fit all sorts of optional adapters on!". Ugh. Nope. I think they'll almost all go out and buy a "real" computer instead, maybe even another Amiga. Is that bad? best - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (04/10/91)
In article <1991Apr9.170659.17365@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: > >I mildly disagree that common consumers will consider the future computer >angle. Consider: mass retailers aren't going to point that out. And you >sure can't put "Expandable into a real home computer!" on the side of the >box... you'd scare away the exact market you're trying to reach! <g> > Certainly expandability to a computer won't be the main selling point, but it does give CDTV a base of users you won't otherwise find. Just plug in a disk drive and a keyboard and you can run anything you can run on an Amiga 500. For those people the CD can be a supplement. And those add-ons are hardly that expensive. About another $200-$250. Total cost is about $1,050 for a 1MB A500 with disk drive, keyboard and CD-ROM. You can do your word processing and spreadsheets as well as all the CD-ROM applications, and of course use all the current Amiga applications that haven't been ported. -- Ethan Q: How many Comp Sci majors does it take to change a lightbulb A: None. It's a hardware problem.
xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU (Marc Barrett) (04/10/91)
In article <1991Apr9.193839.14020@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > Certainly expandability to a computer won't be the main >selling point, but it does give CDTV a base of users you won't >otherwise find. Just plug in a disk drive and a keyboard and you >can run anything you can run on an Amiga 500. For those people >the CD can be a supplement. You can, at least, run anything on the CDTV that you can run on an Amiga 500 with AmigaOS 1.3. This brings up an interesting question. The CDTV apparently does not use the actual 1.3 ROMs, but modified 1.3 ROMs with the extra code to support the CD-ROM drive. If this is true, how could one go about upgrading the CDTV to AmigaOS 2.0? The ROMs for 2.0 might not include the extra code that is in the CDTV ROMs, and thus putting the 2.0 ROMs straight into a CDTV might either cause it to not work at all or cause the CD-ROM drive to be inaccessible. > -- Ethan > >Q: How many Comp Sci majors does it take to change a lightbulb >A: None. It's a hardware problem. -MB- ---------------------------------------------------------- / Marc Barrett | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / / ISU COM S Student | Internet: XGR39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU / ----------------------------------------------------------
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (04/10/91)
In article <1991Apr9.215548.25980@news.iastate.edu> xgr39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU writes: > > You can, at least, run anything on the CDTV that you can run on >an Amiga 500 with AmigaOS 1.3. > > This brings up an interesting question. The CDTV apparently does >not use the actual 1.3 ROMs, but modified 1.3 ROMs with the extra code >to support the CD-ROM drive. If this is true, how could one go about >upgrading the CDTV to AmigaOS 2.0? > > The ROMs for 2.0 might not include the extra code that is in the >CDTV ROMs, and thus putting the 2.0 ROMs straight into a CDTV might >either cause it to not work at all or cause the CD-ROM drive to be >inaccessible. > As far as I know 2.0 is not yet being worked on for CDTV, but then I don't know what happens behind closed doors. As of now, CDTV is a modified 1.3, but the ROMs are 512K. So there are extensions in ROM which make me fear it'll be a hard transition. > > -MB- > ---------------------------------------------------------- > / Marc Barrett | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / >/ ISU COM S Student | Internet: XGR39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU / >---------------------------------------------------------- -- Ethan Q: How many Comp Sci majors does it take to change a lightbulb A: None. It's a hardware problem.
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (04/10/91)
In article <1991Apr9.170659.17365@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: > >Super-smooth titles require that close attention be paid to exactly WHERE >on a CDROM information is stored, because CDROMs are pigs compared to HDs. >It's almost a science unto itself to interleave sectors of the audio/video >information. Developing/testing an interactive CDROM application requires >perfect emulation of a CDROM, in order to know how it will actually playback. >That's what CD-I developers do. You do NOT make it look like "a big HD". Well, yes and no. Developing takes place on a big HD. But as I remember, the developer utilities include software that also emulates timing of a real CDROM on such a HD. So you can well test the layout of your application. And yes, arranging of which data you put where on the CD is said to be very critical. But as I said, also this should be covered. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (04/10/91)
In <1085@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: In article <1991Apr8.085845.24662@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: > >>> The advantage that CDTV has is that it is an Amiga. It has the whole >>> library of Amiga software if you add a diskdrive. >> >> Yes, I've said many times that this is a slight advantage IF it allows >>CDTV titles to be more easily created. So far that's not very clear. > > Oh, developers already received long ago the guidelines how to make up > a normal Amiga for a CDTV development platform. It's easy. Hi Peter. The context was, "more easily created" than CD-I titles. But perhaps I should've also added, "quality titles": Just putting an application or game onto a CDROM disc is something you can do for almost any brandname computer... that's nothing special, and has little to do with the unique concept of consumer Interactive TV titles. Good titles require a lot of data-gathering, manipulation, programming and scripting. I mean a _lot_. You'll need good-quality sound and video digitizing, artists, programmers, managers... it's like shooting a movie. To check on progress, you'll also really want a good CDROM emulator. So it is still unclear if a group using Amiga hardware and software can create a quality title "easier" than a group using CD-I authoring systems. And tho the Amiga hardware is cheaper for now, it's the time which costs. >> But they might care that CDTV is incompatible with all other players. > > The CDTV is NOT "incompatible with all other players". Not long from now, when a potential customer walks into a store he will see a selection of CD-I players from Sony, Magnavox, RCA, Panasonic, JVC, Sharp, Sanyo, Pioneer, Yamaha, Matsushita and others. These players will all be compatible with each other, and come in a variety of prices, extra features, and styles. They will also have superior graphics (and it sure sounds like superior titles). So yes, I think that early CDTV buyers might later care that they're incompatible with all of the above. I don't debate that many Commodore fanatics will buy CDTV units. But I suspect that even they will end up also getting CD-I players in the end. After all, aren't all Amiga owners staunch advocates of superior, affordable technology?? <wry grin> > It's one of the plusses of AmigaOS that you can use various file systems. > So the CDTV CAN read HighSierra AND ISO9660 (or what was the number). File systems mean nothing. It's the data & code on the discs that matter ;-) > And as CD-I runs also on 680x0, perhaps someone succedes to do an emulator > of a CD-I system? (Ok, sounds difficult, as they also have many custom > chips, but who knows.) Difficult, yes. How would an Amiga emulate a dual playfield of: 120-color realtime color RLE animation overlaid on a 150,000-color DYUV background? OTOH, it might be possible to create some kind of addon board. Not sure. > And perhaps someone also ports IBeM, the new PC emulator, to the CDTV > and then we can use all the PC CD-ROMs. Or how about AMAX on the CDTV > and running Mac CD-ROMs? I think you get the picture: Amiga is the world > champion of emulations, and so is CDTV (or will be). I'm afraid that you have pretty much missed the point of these players, which is to bring interactive TV into homes as a standard A/V component. Even CBM acknowledges this with the way they don't allow CDTVs to be shown next to Amigas or other computers. People are going to buy interactive TV units in order to be entertained. You do NOT buy a home A/V component in order to access data on the discs you mentioned... you buy a personal computer with a CDROM drive. And when you talk about using an expanded player, you're no longer talking about "CDTV"... you're talking about using an Amiga computer with a CDROM drive: >> Yet the major sticking point to me still is: it would make more sense >> to buy an Amiga and add a CDROM drive, than to buy a CDTV and then add >> on the disk drive, keyboard, mouse, etc... if expansion is your plan. > > Yes, all possible in the future, I believe. But sure much more expensive > than a plain CDTV plus perhaps a disk drive and a keyboard. > Hmm, let's see... :-) I sure hope not :-). I would much prefer a CDROM drive on my Amiga which could make use of disc data, and even play some CDTV discs... than to buy a CDTV player and add keyboard, mouse, floppy, hard drive, memory, etc. Regards - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> (semi-reluctant devil's advocate :-)
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (04/11/91)
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >> >>Super-smooth titles require that close attention be paid to exactly WHERE >>on a CDROM information is stored, because CDROMs are pigs compared to HDs. >>It's almost a science unto itself to interleave sectors of the audio/video >>information. Developing/testing an interactive CDROM application requires >perfect emulation of a CDROM, in order to know how it will actually playback. >That's what CD-I developers do. You do NOT make it look like "a big HD". > >Well, yes and no. Developing takes place on a big HD. But as I remember, >the developer utilities include software that also emulates timing of a >real CDROM on such a HD. So you can well test the layout of your >application. And yes, arranging of which data you put where on the CD >is said to be very critical. But as I said, also this should be covered. Umm <chewing lip while thinking>... your pardon, I may not be explaining this clearly enough. It's not easy to do so the first time :-). In an interactive environment, where you are combining audio and visual data which is often coming from a relatively slow CDROM, it can be critical to arrange the data so that the flow is as uninterrupted as possible. We've both pretty much said this, and so I think we both agree. Okay... CDTV: From what I gather (corrections gladly welcomed), an author creates his programs and data on a hard disk, then sends the HD to CBM for CDROM mastering. The most control over data placement is the general location of files (for nearness). The end CDROM is more or less an exact copy of the HD. CD-I: The player decides where each incoming sector ends up: into memory, or directly through the audio section. Playing sound off disc _while_ also loading/displaying video data may be done by interleaving sectors. Example of interleaving video with simultaneous German/English audio tracks: | video | video | German | video | video | English | ... repeat... The video data goes into memory. The audio tracks are mixed by a separate audio processor and can continously play without entering the computer section. Or if wished, the audio can be vectored into memory for later play, while previously stored audio is played. In either case, what you have is crucial control during mastering on a per-sector basis as to what data is where, allowing what you might call a 'flowing multi-I/O capability'. Now, it has occurred to me that I don't know (does someone?) exactly how the CDTV player is set up in this situation. That is, does it have similar capabilities? Or does it simply play straight audio from disc while displaying previously loaded video data, and vice versa? Or ? IF CDTV uses the disc _only_ like a large HD, then you would be correct that the included utilities are sufficient for mastering discs... altho obviously the final capabilities fall short of CD-I. IF CDTV _does_ have per-sector distribution hardware, then the included utilities seem to fall very short. In either case, the upshot has been (as I said), that I have already heard rumblings from multimedia CDROM specialists that CDTV has not mastered the science of interleaving data (if used as a HD, then it will _never_ do so). Those were not "gloating" rumors, but expressions of dismay that interactive TV might get a black eye from lack of flow smoothness under CDTV. That dismays me also, as I've been excited at the possibilities of interactive TV for many years now... and wish it well regardless of brandname (hmmm... except that an MSDOS-based I-TV unit might make me cringe ;-). best regards - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> PS: My work is suffering <g>. I may bow out for a while. Thx.
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (04/11/91)
In article <1991Apr11.052215.143@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: > >CDTV: From what I gather (corrections gladly welcomed), an author creates his >programs and data on a hard disk, then sends the HD to CBM for CDROM mastering. >The most control over data placement is the general location of files >(for nearness). The end CDROM is more or less an exact copy of the HD. Sorry, I don't have those papers at hand in the moment. Perhaps someone can cut in? But as I remember, those guidelines for developers said that the sector layout had to be optimized by them (only they know what are the critical parts and in what typical sequence they will be accessed). I don't remember reading that they must send their HD to CBM, more to the disc manufacturer (???). >The video data goes into memory. The audio tracks are mixed by a separate >audio processor and can continously play without entering the computer section. >Or if wished, the audio can be vectored into memory for later play, while >previously stored audio is played. In either case, what you have is crucial >control during mastering on a per-sector basis as to what data is where, >allowing what you might call a 'flowing multi-I/O capability'. > >Now, it has occurred to me that I don't know (does someone?) exactly how >the CDTV player is set up in this situation. That is, does it have similar >capabilities? Or does it simply play straight audio from disc while >displaying previously loaded video data, and vice versa? Or ? Sorry, don't know details. But CDTV sure can play true CD audio directly from disc while playing animations from memory. If you want to play longer music plus anim intermixed which doesn't fit completely in RAM, then I think there are (several different) digital audio modes where audio is played with adjustable sampling (and thus data) rate by the Amiga (well, this is in 8 bit, but sure sufficient for speak). As this data rate is comparably low, the Amiga part still can load and play anims in real time simultaneously. (If I said something wrong, *please* someone step in and correct me!) >IF CDTV uses the disc _only_ like a large HD, No, I don't think so. > IF CDTV _does_ have per-sector >distribution hardware, then the included utilities seem to fall very short. Do you know at all, what utilities are available? >In either case, the upshot has been (as I said), that I have already heard >rumblings from multimedia CDROM specialists that CDTV has not mastered the >science of interleaving data (if used as a HD, then it will _never_ do so). Well I think there are ways to accomplish this, perhaps they still have to study a bit...:-) -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
tcr@tcr.UUCP (John B. Sobernheim) (04/11/91)
In article <1991Apr8.085845.24662@ncsu.edu>, kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: > Yet the major sticking point to me still is: it would make more sense > to buy an Amiga and add a CDROM drive, than to buy a CDTV and then add > on the disk drive, keyboard, mouse, etc... if expansion is your plan. Kevin, I think that for the extra ~$300 or so that CDTV costs over what I guess the CD ROM drive add-on for an Amiga will cost, that there would be real benefits in buying the stand-alone CDTV unit. The CDTV can be used as intended (in the family room with TV & Stereo hookups) and also as a ROM drive for daddy's (mommy's, et al) Amiga. In some preliminary experimentation with the unit here I've got a bootable WB 1.3 disk bringing up a "newshell aux:" to an Amiga 2000 and a "loadwb" to CDTV. This allows two users, the "computer" user and the CDTV user to access the CDTV. The computer user uses cd0:, the CDTV user points and clicks. The computer user can take his pick of any of the left over video outputs of the CDTV (after the family room TV is all hooked up), IE. S-video, Composite, RF, RGB, and route that back into his multi-faceted 1084x monitor. There are few limitations to this configuration from the computer users perspective and the advantages should be obvious, the CDTV is used as intended and more. With a little help from a tool like Dnet (I have no experience with it yet) for the computer user and JakeBoard for the CDTV user, even these small disadvantages may well be overcome. > best - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> --- John Sobernheim tcr@tcr.UUCP | ...boulder!tcr!{tcr!root!news} The Computer Room CIS 76625,1210 | 76625.1210@compuserve.com Denver, Colorado "But Moma, that's where the fun is!" (Manfred Man, BS)
dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (04/12/91)
In article <1991Apr9.193839.14020@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >In article <1991Apr9.170659.17365@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >> >>I mildly disagree that common consumers will consider the future computer >>angle. Consider: mass retailers aren't going to point that out. And you >>sure can't put "Expandable into a real home computer!" on the side of the >>box... you'd scare away the exact market you're trying to reach! <g> >> > Certainly expandability to a computer won't be the main >selling point, but it does give CDTV a base of users you won't >otherwise find. Just plug in a disk drive and a keyboard and you >can run anything you can run on an Amiga 500. For those people >the CD can be a supplement. > And those add-ons are hardly that expensive. About >another $200-$250. Total cost is about $1,050 for a 1MB A500 with >disk drive, keyboard and CD-ROM. You can do your word processing >and spreadsheets as well as all the CD-ROM applications, and of >course use all the current Amiga applications that haven't been >ported. > -- Ethan > >Q: How many Comp Sci majors does it take to change a lightbulb >A: None. It's a hardware problem. World of Amiga in NYC had at least 20 CDTV's on display, and I did not see one running a conventional application other than the workbench screen. Second, I saw none of the peripherals hooked up to it such as a keyboard or floppy drive (I still think it should come with a floppy drive). David -- David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3481 AMIGA DDD-MEN Tomas Arce Any students from SUNY Oswego? Please let me know! :) Un ragazzo di Casalbordino, Italia.