melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (05/05/91)
In article <91124.170117MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> <MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
Gosh, I dunno. Wait a minute, here's some companies that are planning
drop-in 68040 boards for $800, barely the cost of the 68040 chip itself.
Well, there ya go.
How long are we going to have to wait? Eh?
Wild guess: $1000 or so. YOU, however, will NOT be able to upgrade
YOUR NeXT Slab to the 68050, PERIOD. In 3 years you'll have to throw out your
Slab and buy a Boulder. Assuming NeXT is still around in three years.
Then buy the Boulder today for an extra $1500 to $2000 so you can
expand it in three years. NeXT released the slab so people could
afford a NeXT who couldn't before. People buy Pizza box
SparcStations. I wonder why? Got an answer?
The ECS Agnes and Denise chips together cost $150; for this you drop
in completely new chips. The cost will never be much more than that.
Does that mean they aren't available yet too(too as in where is A DOS
2.0)
Even a lowly Amiga 500 can be expanded to take advantage of every
expansion devise there is: lots of people have '030-powered A500s.
Get a clue: most people would rather not have to throw away their
old computer if they want to take advantage of a new chip. There's
a reason for expansion ports, y'know.
REALLLLYYYY!!! What about the super expandable Amiga 1000? What's
going to happen to it? That was just a protoype right? Can I get
half bright mode for an early Amiga 1000? How about 2 megs of chip
RAM? People would rather think that they can expand their computer
forever so they'll pay more money for something that they won't use.
Slabs cost $2500. If NeXT doesn't offer another board for the Slab,
I'll just order out for another pizza box. I imagine that an 040 NeXT
will still be worth $1000 to $1500 in three years(slab only).
-Mikegblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) (05/05/91)
From article <+q2G9+1*1@cs.psu.edu>, by melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger): > REALLLLYYYY!!! What about the super expandable Amiga 1000? What's > going to happen to it? That was just a protoype right? Can I get It will keep on existing, and it can still run everything with a little upgrading. > half bright mode for an early Amiga 1000? How about 2 megs of chip > RAM? People would rather think that they can expand their computer Yes, you can have both. For halfbright, just drop in the old denise. Or pick up a Rejuvinator, and upgrade everything. And I have seen a board that allows two megas of chip for the 1000. Sorry, these are both viable expansions. > forever so they'll pay more money for something that they won't use. > Slabs cost $2500. If NeXT doesn't offer another board for the Slab, > I'll just order out for another pizza box. I imagine that an 040 NeXT > will still be worth $1000 to $1500 in three years(slab only). Yeow, that's what I call degredation. My 2000 will probably be worth that much... With all the software, of course. As is yours. -- All opinions are my own, and not those of my employer. Why? He doesn't know I'm doing this. -Wubba
mpierce@ewu.UUCP (Mathew Pierce) (05/05/91)
In article <+q2G9+1*1@cs.psu.edu>, melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > > In article <91124.170117MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> <MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> writes: [stuff deleted about expandability of Amigas] > > REALLLLYYYY!!! What about the super expandable Amiga 1000? What's > going to happen to it? That was just a protoype right? Can I get > half bright mode for an early Amiga 1000? How about 2 megs of chip > RAM? [more stuff deleted because my mailer said to] > > -Mike Yes, you can get EHB mode for the old A1000. Yes you can get the 2 megs of chip for th e A1000. The A1000 runs all the software that the other Amigas do. The A1000 is being supported quite well by third party developers, it will be here for quite some time. -Matt Pierce
jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) (05/05/91)
In article <+q2G9+1*1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > >In article <91124.170117MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> <MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> writes: > > Gosh, I dunno. Wait a minute, here's some companies that are planning > drop-in 68040 boards for $800, barely the cost of the 68040 chip itself. > Well, there ya go. > >How long are we going to have to wait? Eh? Just until '040 production speeds up. There are about 5-7 boards ready NOW, but there's so much backlog on the '040 that noone can get any. > > Wild guess: $1000 or so. YOU, however, will NOT be able to upgrade > YOUR NeXT Slab to the 68050, PERIOD. In 3 years you'll have to throw out your > Slab and buy a Boulder. Assuming NeXT is still around in three years. > >Then buy the Boulder today for an extra $1500 to $2000 so you can >expand it in three years. NeXT released the slab so people could >afford a NeXT who couldn't before. People buy Pizza box >SparcStations. I wonder why? Got an answer? > B-b-b-but every sPARC except the SLC and possibly IPC has expansion slots, something the NeXTstation is sorely missing, and should've been considered. Also, what if one couldn't afford the boulder? They buy the Slab now, then are totally phased out when NeXT switches to the 88000. (Or the planned superscalar version...) > The ECS Agnes and Denise chips together cost $150; for this you drop > in completely new chips. The cost will never be much more than that. > >Does that mean they aren't available yet too(too as in where is A DOS >2.0) The ECS Agnus is, the Denise is only in the 3000, at this point, but would most likely come out when Kickstart is burned into ROM. > > Even a lowly Amiga 500 can be expanded to take advantage of every > expansion devise there is: lots of people have '030-powered A500s. > Get a clue: most people would rather not have to throw away their > old computer if they want to take advantage of a new chip. There's > a reason for expansion ports, y'know. > >REALLLLYYYY!!! What about the super expandable Amiga 1000? What's >going to happen to it? That was just a protoype right? Can I get >half bright mode for an early Amiga 1000? How about 2 megs of chip >RAM? People would rather think that they can expand their computer >forever so they'll pay more money for something that they won't use. >Slabs cost $2500. If NeXT doesn't offer another board for the Slab, >I'll just order out for another pizza box. I imagine that an 040 NeXT >will still be worth $1000 to $1500 in three years(slab only). > The A1000 was a mistake. If the designers had more time, what we would have had was something more like the 2000. >-Mike *sigh* NeXT idiots everywhere... -- Joseph Hillenburg jph@irie.ais.org
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (05/05/91)
In article <+q2G9+1*1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > Then buy the Boulder today for an extra $1500 to $2000 so you can > expand it in three years. I could buy a *car* for the price of the CuBE. Get real. > People buy Pizza box > SparcStations. I wonder why? Got an answer? No they don't. Corporations with networks do. We have two of the buggers at work, and buying a shoebox so you can actually use it without blowing the net was a real shocker. These Pizza-box machines make fantastic X terminals, though. > REALLLLYYYY!!! What about the super expandable Amiga 1000? Well, it's SIX YEARS after the 1000 came out and it finally looks like you'll have to do a hardware mod to keep up to date. I think six years of staying on the cutting edge of the PC world is pretty damn good for a first try. > What's > going to happen to it? I'm keeping mine. It looks good next to my 3000. > That was just a protoype right? Can I get > half bright mode for an early Amiga 1000? Yes. Just swap a chip. Cheap. > How about 2 megs of chip RAM? That's tougher. Takes a hardware mod. But doable. The only important expansion is the 512K of kickstart ROM. Everything else is just a frill. > Slabs cost $2500. No they don't. A base NeXTstation is over 5 grand for normal people. > If NeXT doesn't offer another board for the Slab, > I'll just order out for another pizza box. I imagine that an 040 NeXT > will still be worth $1000 to $1500 in three years(slab only). Tell that to the people with PC Jrs. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (05/05/91)
In article <AY$CM=K@irie.ais.org> jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) writes:
B-b-b-but every sPARC except the SLC and possibly IPC has expansion slots,
something the NeXTstation is sorely missing, and should've been considered.
Also, what if one couldn't afford the boulder? They buy the Slab now, then
are totally phased out when NeXT switches to the 88000. (Or the planned
superscalar version...)
Are you sure about that? I thought that Sun's pizza boxes weren't
expandable either. I wonder how many people are going to upgrade
their Sun 3's with Sun's 040 boards? For those not in the know, Sun
isn't offering 040 upgrades to people with Sun 3's.
The A1000 was a mistake. If the designers had more time, what we would have
had was something more like the 2000.
Too bad. I know a few people that spent money on that mistake.
-Mikemelling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (05/05/91)
In article <11786@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes: > forever so they'll pay more money for something that they won't use. > Slabs cost $2500. If NeXT doesn't offer another board for the Slab, > I'll just order out for another pizza box. I imagine that an 040 NeXT > will still be worth $1000 to $1500 in three years(slab only). Yeow, that's what I call degredation. My 2000 will probably be worth that much... With all the software, of course. As is yours. Your right. I was thinking that the NeXTstation costs $3250(it does educationally). It really costs $5000, so it will probably be worth around $3000 grand in 3 years. -Mike
uzun@pnet01.cts.com (Roger Uzun) (05/06/91)
[]
Progressive Peripherals is closer than others, as far as I can tell,
and theirs is due out in July. 040's are easy to get now, that is not
the problem, at least according to them and Motorola.
I think cost for theirs is $1000.00 retail
-Roger
UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!uzun
ARPA: crash!pnet01!uzun@nosc.mil
INET: uzun@pnet01.cts.comschweige@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (Jeffrey M. Schweiger) (05/06/91)
In article <#n4G?uv*1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes:
<
<Are you sure about that? I thought that Sun's pizza boxes weren't
<expandable either. I wonder how many people are going to upgrade
<their Sun 3's with Sun's 040 boards? For those not in the know, Sun
<isn't offering 040 upgrades to people with Sun 3's.
True. Instead, they're offering upgrades to SPARCStation 2 configuration to
people with Sun 3's (and Sun 386i's, and SPARC 1's, and SPARC 1+'s ...)
<-Mike
--
*******************************************************************************
Jeff Schweiger Standard Disclaimer CompuServe: 74236,1645
Internet (Milnet): schweige@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil
*******************************************************************************greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Harp) (05/06/91)
In article <2q4Gfxv*1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > >Your right. I was thinking that the NeXTstation costs $3250(it does >educationally). It really costs $5000, so it will probably be worth >around $3000 grand in 3 years. Except, of course, if the market is flooded with orphaned NeXTs. Remember that the business world does _not_ share your optimism about NeXT's success. Also, even if NeXT is still producing computers three years down the line _and_ they support their old machines, the slab will likely depreciate more than just $2000. Computers are as bad as cars in that respect. Greg -- Greg Harp |"I was there to match my intellect on national TV, | against a plumber and an architect, both with a PhD." greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu| -- "I Lost on Jeopardy," Weird Al Yankovic
jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) (05/06/91)
In article <#n4G?uv*1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > >In article <AY$CM=K@irie.ais.org> jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) writes: > > B-b-b-but every sPARC except the SLC and possibly IPC has expansion slots, > something the NeXTstation is sorely missing, and should've been considered. > Also, what if one couldn't afford the boulder? They buy the Slab now, then > are totally phased out when NeXT switches to the 88000. (Or the planned > superscalar version...) > >Are you sure about that? I thought that Sun's pizza boxes weren't >expandable either. I wonder how many people are going to upgrade >their Sun 3's with Sun's 040 boards? For those not in the know, Sun >isn't offering 040 upgrades to people with Sun 3's. > I said every *sPARC*, not Sun 2/3/4's. Ever seen the motherboard shots of sPARCstations? You'll see what I mean. They have S-bus slots. Looking at BYTE Feb '91, even the sPARC IPC has two S-bus slots, which means the SLC is the only unexpandable sPARCstation. (Of course, it's design prohibits this...) The NeXT is a sorry excuse for a professional workstation. > >-Mike -- Joseph Hillenburg jph@irie.ais.org
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (05/06/91)
In article <2q4Gfxv*1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > It really costs $5000, so it will probably be worth > around $3000 grand in 3 years. Three million? Egads! I had no idea inflation was going to be so bad. Better invest in some securities. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
jgay@digi.lonestar.org (john gay) (05/06/91)
From article <#n4G?uv*1@cs.psu.edu>, by melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger): > expandable either. I wonder how many people are going to upgrade > their Sun 3's with Sun's 040 boards? For those not in the know, Sun > isn't offering 040 upgrades to people with Sun 3's. Sun has said that they are not going to build anymore computers based on Motorola chips. They are fully committed to the SPARC chip. All new computers will be based on a SPARC chip. Because of this it is not suprising that an 040 upgrade from Sun want be available. Of course someone else might come out with an '040 upgrade for the Sun 3. john gay.
billc@cryo.UUCP (William J. Coldwell) (05/07/91)
In article <9067@crash.cts.com> uzun@pnet01.cts.com (Roger Uzun) writes: >[] >Progressive Peripherals is closer than others, as far as I can tell, >and theirs is due out in July. 040's are easy to get now, that is not >the problem, at least according to them and Motorola. Better watch for marketing hype here. Motorola hasn't even gone to XC yet. The errata for the 040 is still over two pages, and the boards that will ship early will either have pre-XC or XC's with hardware and software kludges around the errata. As for PP&S being "closer", that is plainly debateable ;-). CSA has been a Motorola VAR for many years, and PP&S hasn't - guess who can get chips? >I think cost for theirs is $1000.00 retail That's most likely for the A2000 version without the RT compression chip. The A3000 should be more than that. >-Roger GVP, CBM, RCS, and Supra are the other developers that I know/heard who are working on 040 boards. CSA, PP&S, GVP and CBM _will_ come out with the boards. The others - well, we'll wait and see. -- +------+ William J. Coldwell Amiga Attitude Adjuster Cryogenic Software /|3DPRO/| PLink: CRYO, BIX: wjcoldwell, UUCP:...tektronix!percy!cryo!billc +-|-^--+ | NAG-BBS: 503/656-7393, NES-BBX: 503/640-9337, Work: 503/254-8147 | +-V--|-+ // Sometimes you gotta be cool to be hot: I'm a 3-DPro Tracer. |/ 040 |/ \X/ Amiga Call 1-800-3Dis4me (so good you can't imagine it). +------+ STD_DSCLMR "All opinions above are mine, and you can't have them."
uzun@pnet01.cts.com (Roger Uzun) (05/09/91)
>>William J. Coldwell states : $1000 retail is likely for the A2000 version >>of the 68040 accelerator without the RT Compression chip Actually, I do not think that PP&S has an A2000 board, and it was $1000 or $1200 for the A3000 040 accelerator, without any compression chip. In any case, they say it will be out in July, as I understood it the 68040 was shipping without bugs, for quite some time. Anyone know if there are problems with 68040 chips from motorola, as in bugs/anomalies. -Roger UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!uzun ARPA: crash!pnet01!uzun@nosc.mil INET: uzun@pnet01.cts.com
dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (05/10/91)
In article <+q2G9+1*1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > >In article <91124.170117MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> <MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> writes: > > Gosh, I dunno. Wait a minute, here's some companies that are planning > drop-in 68040 boards for $800, barely the cost of the 68040 chip itself. > Well, there ya go. > >How long are we going to have to wait? Eh? We have all seen prototypes running. It is whether or not Motorola can pump out more 68040s, not whther they still need to be developed. There are already ads in magazines for 68040 boards. > Wild guess: $1000 or so. YOU, however, will NOT be able to upgrade > YOUR NeXT Slab to the 68050, PERIOD. In 3 years you'll have to throw out your > Slab and buy a Boulder. Assuming nExt is still around in three years. > >Then buy the Boulder today for an extra $1500 to $2000 so you can So the price is now up to about $5000. I bought my Amiga 500 for $500, and it puts out more than a $5000 nExt. Mine works so much I haven't turned it off in two weeks. I do raytracing every night, along with my regular coding. And my total investment was about $1500 over a 15 month period. I upgraded when I was DAMN READY! >expand it in three years. nExt released the slab so people could >afford a nExt who couldn't before. People buy Pizza box >SparcStations. I wonder why? Got an answer? What kind of a comparison is that? Should I eat my beans at dinner too because the kid across the street does? > The ECS Agnes and Denise chips together cost $150; for this you drop > in completely new chips. The cost will never be much more than that. > >Does that mean they aren't available yet too(too as in where is A DOS >2.0) Amiga DOS 2.0 is all over the place. The new chips are dropping all over too, and when I need 2.0 and a new chip set, I will get them. The standard chips do not cripple the Amiga in the same way as a nExt is crippled unless you plan on using it just to prove you spend lots of money. > Even a lowly Amiga 500 can be expanded to take advantage of every > expansion devise there is: lots of people have '030-powered A500s. > Get a clue: most people would rather not have to throw away their > old computer if they want to take advantage of a new chip. There's > a reason for expansion ports, y'know. > >REALLLLYYYY!!! What about the super expandable Amiga 1000? What's CSA Meg Midget Racer - 68030 25 mhz! One unit can plug into any Amiga 500, 1000, or 2000! No need to exchange or swap anything! AdIDE hard drive controller! Fits into any Amiga 500, 1000, or 2000! CI Ram 8 meg expander! Fits into any Amiga 500, 1000, or 2000! AtONCE IBM 286! Fits into Amiga 1000, 500 or 2000! AMAX Macintosh emulator! Fits into any Amiga 1000, 500, or 2000! DCTV, HamE, Colorburst! Fits into any Amiga 1000, 500, or 2000 for 24 bit color! The A1000 is just as expandable, so don't knock it! >going to happen to it? That was just a protoype right? Can I get >half bright mode for an early Amiga 1000? How about 2 megs of chip If there's a socket, just pop in the chip! Really no big deal... I'd rather have no half brites than no color at all :). >RAM? People would rather think that they can expand their computer >forever so they'll pay more money for something that they won't use. >Slabs cost $2500. If nExt doesn't offer another board for the Slab, >I'll just order out for another pizza box. I imagine that an 040 nExt >will still be worth $1000 to $1500 in three years(slab only). > >-mIKE You have a good imagination. When three years comes around, so will the new chips and hardware, which will make your unexpandable pizza bag worthless to any new user who can get a used Amiga 3000 for the same price. I plan on buying TWO new computers this month; both Amiga 3000s, and for only $1800 each, BRAND SPANKIN' NEW. -- David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3481 AMIGA DDD-MEN "If you think that we're here for the money, we could live without it. But the world isn't too good here, and it wasn't always like that." Un ragazzo di Casalbordino, Italia.
dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (05/10/91)
In article <2q4Gfxv*1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: >In article <11786@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes: > > forever so they'll pay more money for something that they won't use. > > Slabs cost $2500. If nExt doesn't offer another board for the Slab, > > I'll just order out for another pizza box. I imagine that an 040 nExt > > will still be worth $1000 to $1500 in three years(slab only). > > Yeow, that's what I call degredation. My 2000 will probably be worth > that much... With all the software, of course. As is yours. > >Your right. I was thinking that the nExtstation costs $3250(it does >educationally). It really costs $5000, so it will probably be worth >around $3000 grand in 3 years. ^^^^^^^^^^ What is this, some sort of subliminal message? How would the value INCREASE? And how dishonest of you to buy a computer, keep it 3.5 years, and give a $250 discount... > >-Mike -- David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3481 AMIGA DDD-MEN "If you think that we're here for the money, we could live without it. But the world isn't too good here, and it wasn't always like that." Un ragazzo di Casalbordino, Italia.
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (05/10/91)
In article <1991May9.202323.5208@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
What is this, some sort of subliminal message? How would the value INCREASE?
And how dishonest of you to buy a computer, keep it 3.5 years, and give a
$250 discount...
What's wrong with selling a computer for what it's worth? So, what if
I can buy a NeXT for $3250 educational and sell it for $3000 in 3
years. There is NOTHING wrong with that.
-Mikees1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (05/11/91)
In article <ftbH7eo@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: >What's wrong with selling a computer for what it's worth? So, what if >I can buy a NeXT for $3250 educational and sell it for $3000 in 3 >years. There is NOTHING wrong with that. > There's nothing wrong with it. It is simply that if you think in three years anyone will actually PAY YOU 3 grand, you've got a few screws loose. 8-) >-Mike -- Ethan GEORGE BUSH MURDER ASSASSINATE PENTAGON CAPITOL WHITE HOUSE Greetings to the loyal Americans working at the NSA! Enjoy.
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (05/11/91)
In article <1991May10.172410.6666@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes:
There's nothing wrong with it. It is simply that if you
think in three years anyone will actually PAY YOU 3 grand, you've
got a few screws loose. 8-)
So, what do you think a $5000 computer that runs at 15 mips with a 17"
display will be worth in 3 years?
-Mikelord_zar@ucrmath.ucr.edu (wayne wallace) (05/11/91)
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: >In article <1991May10.172410.6666@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > There's nothing wrong with it. It is simply that if you > think in three years anyone will actually PAY YOU 3 grand, you've > got a few screws loose. 8-) >So, what do you think a $5000 computer that runs at 15 mips with a 17" >display will be worth in 3 years? >-Mike Considering you just described a SPARCStation 1, (We have'em and the stats _do_ fit) and Sun cut their prices from 10K to 5K, and put out SPARCStation 2, I'd say ~1500-2000 because YOU KNOW RISC technology or whatever the new breakthrough is, will put EVERYONE to shame. Your NeXT 030 or 040 will be like a PCjr, and so will a SPARC 1, because theSPARC 2 will cost $5000 by then, and SPARC 3 will be out. Remember, every computer is obsolete as soon as you buy it because a new model will be out in a year or two anyways. As for the 88K NeXT RISC, well, when I see it, I'll believe it. It's a shame motorola's chips are falling behind the times. When the 88K is (hopefully) more common, I suspect even my computer (yes, an Amiga. 2500/20) will be left out as C= introduces the A88k or whatever their custom risc chip will be. I expect your fodder 030 and 040 NeXTs to be affordable to the middle class in a few years, if not out of production, and I expect to see substantial price drops in everything. You're fooling yourself. RISC will make everything die like fodder. I've used SPARC 1s for quite a while, and considering how fast they went with 8 megs of ram, and the speed increase when they were upgraded to 16 megs, nothing will be worth anything in 3 years. As for my plans, well, I'm gonna put off the 030 board, and when prices get settled on the 040, I'm upgrading my 2500 to 2500/40. Why? Simple. Games. :-) I expect my 2500 to sit @ home (non-college home) while I zoom in my new Amiga 88000UX with 32-bit 100Mhz custom chips, with two 88k chips so I can effortlessly switch between AmigaOS and Unix, and do a bit mroe programming than I do now, because the final version of gcc for AmigaOS should be done by then. Hey, with a Sun 4/490 server and 18 SPARCs at school with xwindows and mwm, you think I'm going to use my Amiga when all the expensive stuff is free for use? My Amiga currently fulfills: compiling off-line and various multimedia like songs, games and animation in Color, for much less than a Slab. In 3 years, your NeXT and my Amiga won't sell for more than $1500, really. I'll still have a need for my old Amiga, though. Your 4.3 BSD machine with outdated software and OS (3 years is a LOT of development time) will sit there like a slab because 4.3 BSD will be a dying dialect in 3 years. SYSVR4 will catch on, SunOS 5.0 will be out, if not 5.1 or 5.2, or even 6.0, and you'll be STUCK. Offhand, my computer, which can (if I got the boards) run 3 OS's (Amiga, IBM, Mac) simultaneously (not sure about the Mac, but I know IBM progs multitask within amiga progs) and thusly has access to far more software than NeXT could dream of (on the 030 or 040 machines) will definitely sell for more than a NeXT, if only by a few hundred dollars, minimum. This, of course, is just where _I_ see the future heading. In 3 years I want to hear the death knell of Intel's 8088/8086/286/386/486/586 line and Motorola's 680x0 line as everyone goes to RISC, but it may not happen if IBM futilely pushes the x86 line and Apple pushes the 680x0 line. As for Commodore, well, I have faith in Commodore to use the best chips out there. Perhaps at some point NeXT and C= can join in sounding the call for moving to better chips. Wayne
torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) (05/11/91)
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: >In article <1991May10.172410.6666@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > There's nothing wrong with it. It is simply that if you > think in three years anyone will actually PAY YOU 3 grand, you've > got a few screws loose. 8-) >So, what do you think a $5000 computer that runs at 15 mips with a 17" >display will be worth in 3 years? $1000-$1500. 15 mips will be as fast relative to a new workstation in 3 years time as a NeXT 040 is to a Mac Classic today. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Evan Torrie. Stanford University, Class of 199? torrie@cs.stanford.edu Today's maxim: All socialists are failed capitalists
greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Harp) (05/11/91)
In article <o#3H6uz@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > >In article <1991May10.172410.6666@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > > There's nothing wrong with it. It is simply that if you > think in three years anyone will actually PAY YOU 3 grand, you've > got a few screws loose. 8-) > >So, what do you think a $5000 computer that runs at 15 mips with a 17" >display will be worth in 3 years? That depends on how much support the machine has at the time. NeXT has to 1) survive three years in the business, 2) continue to support a 680x0 arhictecture and 3) sell about one million units. If all three conditions are satisfied the resale value could be close to $3000. Of course, the educated buyer probably knows how much you paid for the machine. In that case they will be reluctant to pay near what you paid for it three years before. Also, the same thing might happen to the 040 NeXT that happened to the 030 NeXT. Those could be purchased dirt cheap around the time the 040 machine was released. Do you think the resale value of the 030 NeXT is anywhere close to 60% of list now? Check into the resale values of many of the machines out there today. Simply getting the machine and setting it up basically knocks 10% of the sale price. Depreciation is incredibly high on electronics of all kinds, especially computers. Greg -- Greg Harp |"I was there to match my intellect on national TV, | against a plumber and an architect, both with a PhD." greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu| -- "I Lost on Jeopardy," Weird Al Yankovic
farren@well.sf.ca.us (Mike Farren) (05/13/91)
greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Harp) writes: >NeXT has to >1) survive three years in the business, 2) continue to support a 680x0 >arhictecture and 3) sell about one million units. If all three conditions >are satisfied the resale value could be close to $3000. Not likely. In the first place, there aren't that many machines that satisfy your criteria at all, and in the second place, the ones that do would be much more likely to be down around the $1000 level. Look at the cost for a Mac Plus or IBM AT these days... -- Mike Farren farren@well.sf.ca.us
ipolyi@alamo.Berkeley.EDU (Harold H. Ipolyi 486-6444) (05/13/91)
In article <o#3H6uz@cs.psu.edu>, melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: |> |> In article <1991May10.172410.6666@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: |> |> There's nothing wrong with it. It is simply that if you |> think in three years anyone will actually PAY YOU 3 grand, you've |> got a few screws loose. 8-) |> |> So, what do you think a $5000 computer that runs at 15 mips with a 17" |> display will be worth in 3 years? |> |> -Mike I know, you didn't ask me, but I think you'll be lucky to get even $1000.- Conversly, the C=64 I bought 6-7 years ago for $395.- is now worth between $1150.- to $1500.- The Amiga1000 I bought when it came out for $1500.- would be worth the same if I were brain-dead enough to want to sell it. Please don't bother to reply until someone actually offers you more than $1000.- for your NeXT 3 years from now.
ddev@wam.umd.edu (Don DeVoe) (05/14/91)
In article <1991May13.113026@alamo.Berkeley.EDU> ipolyi@alamo.Berkeley.EDU (Harold H. Ipolyi 486-6444) writes: >melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: >>es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >|> >|> So, what do you think a $5000 computer that runs at 15 mips with a 17" >|> display will be worth in 3 years? > >I know, you didn't ask me, but I think you'll be lucky to get even >$1000.- > >Conversly, the C=64 I bought 6-7 years ago for $395.- is now worth >between $1150.- to $1500.- >The Amiga1000 I bought when it came out for $1500.- would be worth the >same if I were brain-dead enough to want to sell it. You are joking, right? You'd be lucky to get $350 for your A1000 now (in fact, if you are in the market, I'll sell you mine at that price)...as for the C64, I'll sell you one REAL cheap. You should be able to make a tidy profit by selling it at the price you quoted! > >Please don't bother to reply until someone actually offers you more than >$1000.- for your NeXT 3 years from now. 2-3K doesn't seem that unreasonable to me for a 3 year old NeXT, assuming they make it through the next few years...why are you so pessimistic about the depreciation of NeXT hardware, while relying on inflated estimated for C= hardware? I must have missed something...this WAS a joke, right? (Or perhaps an intentional jab from a NeXT owner trying to make amiga owners look silly?) -- Don DeVoe ddev@wam.umd.edu
kilian@cinnet.com (Kilian Jacob) (05/14/91)
From article <1991May9.195945.4780@sbcs.sunysb.edu>, by dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio): > In article <+q2G9+1*1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: >> >>In article <91124.170117MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> <MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> writes: >>RAM? People would rather think that they can expand their computer >>forever so they'll pay more money for something that they won't use. >>Slabs cost $2500. If nExt doesn't offer another board for the Slab, >>I'll just order out for another pizza box. I imagine that an 040 nExt ~~~~~~~~ >>will still be worth $1000 to $1500 in three years(slab only). >> >>-mIKE > nExt. = no Extension ?? :-) -- /<ilian -- Kilian Jacob - Cincinnati, Ohio - VOICE: (513)-489-1891 UUCP: kilian@cinnet.com or {uceng.uc.edu, ukma!spca6, uunet!sdrc}!cinnet!kilian
mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) (05/14/91)
In article <1991May10.172410.6666@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >In article <ftbH7eo@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: >>What's wrong with selling a computer for what it's worth? So, what if >>I can buy a NeXT for $3250 educational and sell it for $3000 in 3 >>years. There is NOTHING wrong with that. >> > There's nothing wrong with it. It is simply that if you >think in three years anyone will actually PAY YOU 3 grand, you've >got a few screws loose. 8-) > Anybody in this newsgroup want to buy his machine for $3000 TODAY? >>-Mike > > > -- Ethan > >GEORGE BUSH MURDER ASSASSINATE PENTAGON CAPITOL WHITE HOUSE >Greetings to the loyal Americans working at the NSA! Enjoy. -- **************************************************** * I want games that look like Shadow of the Beast * * but play like Leisure Suit Larry. * ****************************************************
ckp@grebyn.com (Checkpoint Technologies) (05/14/91)
Everyone writes:
[ ...everything but the answer to the question posed by the Subject:. ]
So, to make a long [ long long... ] story short - No one has an '040
Amiga, because they aren't to be had.
Now, there, wasn't that simple? :-)
--
Richard Krehbiel, private citizen ckp@grebyn.com
(Who needs a fancy .signature?)peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (05/14/91)
In article <1991May13.190307.4383@wam.umd.edu> ddev@wam.umd.edu (Don DeVoe) writes: > >Conversly, the C=64 I bought 6-7 years ago for $395.- is now worth > >between $1150.- to $1500.- > I must have missed something...this WAS a joke, right? (Or perhaps an > intentional jab from a NeXT owner trying to make amiga owners look silly?) You missed something. It's called the Amiga Power-Up program. You get those sorts of discounts on an Amiga 3000 in trade for an earlier Commodore machine. And you get to keep the old machine. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
ipolyi@alamo.Berkeley.EDU (Harold H. Ipolyi 713-486-6444) (05/14/91)
In article <1991May13.190307.4383@wam.umd.edu>, ddev@wam.umd.edu (Don DeVoe) writes: [deleted] |> >Conversly, the C=64 I bought 6-7 years ago for $395.- is now worth |> >between $1150.- to $1500.- |> >The Amiga1000 I bought when it came out for $1500.- would be worth the |> >same if I were brain-dead enough to want to sell it. [deleted] |> I must have missed something...this WAS a joke, right? (Or perhaps an |> intentional jab from a NeXT owner trying to make amiga owners look silly?) |> Don DeVoe |> ddev@wam.umd.edu Sorry, but you did miss it. The was to (Michael D Mellinger) making claims on NeXT's possible value. The prices I am quoting are what ANYONE can at these moment (until the end of June) for ANY of the listed Commodore product in the Power-Up program (I have an A3000). H
judge@alchemy.tcnet.ithaca.ny.us (rory toma) (05/14/91)
ddev@wam.umd.edu (Don DeVoe) writes: > In article <1991May13.113026@alamo.Berkeley.EDU> ipolyi@alamo.Berkeley.EDU (H > >melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > >>es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > >|> > >|> So, what do you think a $5000 computer that runs at 15 mips with a 17" > >|> display will be worth in 3 years? > > > >I know, you didn't ask me, but I think you'll be lucky to get even > >$1000.- > > > >Conversly, the C=64 I bought 6-7 years ago for $395.- is now worth > >between $1150.- to $1500.- > >The Amiga1000 I bought when it came out for $1500.- would be worth the > >same if I were brain-dead enough to want to sell it. > > You are joking, right? You'd be lucky to get $350 for your A1000 now (in fact > if you are in the market, I'll sell you mine at that price)...as for > the C64, I'll sell you one REAL cheap. You should be able to make a tidy > profit by selling it at the price you quoted! > > I must have missed something...this WAS a joke, right? (Or perhaps an > intentional jab from a NeXT owner trying to make amiga owners look silly?) In fact, it IS NOT a joke. Commodore's new Power Up program lets you get from between $1150-$1500 off of a new 3000. And you don't have to give up the machine, either. So, in effect, you get more. Even thatVic 20 is worth over a grand. The moneyyou save can enable you to buy an '040 board. BTW, a company in Canada will be shipping '040 boards in 6-8 weeks for the 2000. I would imagine that the 3000 ones from C= or GVP will be out soon. rory
jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) (05/15/91)
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes: >In article <1991May13.190307.4383@wam.umd.edu> ddev@wam.umd.edu (Don DeVoe) writes: >> >Conversly, the C=64 I bought 6-7 years ago for $395.- is now worth >> >between $1150.- to $1500.- >> I must have missed something...this WAS a joke, right? (Or perhaps an >> intentional jab from a NeXT owner trying to make amiga owners look silly?) >You missed something. It's called the Amiga Power-Up program. You get those >sorts of discounts on an Amiga 3000 in trade for an earlier Commodore machine. >And you get to keep the old machine. Woah, Pete, contradiction here? All you need to give up is the front cover of your manual. Write the serial number of your machine on it and give it to the dealer. *BAM* Instantly, you're holding a $1150 piece of cardboard in your hand. >-- >Peter da Silva. `-_-' ><peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>. -- Joseph Hillenburg jph@irie.ais.org
dltaylor@cns.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Dan Taylor) (05/15/91)
In <1991May13.190307.4383@wam.umd.edu> ddev@wam.umd.edu (Don DeVoe) writes: [edited for space, and my stupid news program] >>Conversly, the C=64 I bought 6-7 years ago for $395.- is now worth >>between $1150.- to $1500.- The Amiga1000 I bought when it came out >>for $1500.- would be worth the same if I were brain-dead enough to >>want to sell it. >You are joking, right? You'd be lucky to get $350 for your A1000 now (in fact, No joke. Commodore, or perhaps their dealers (I don't know who takes the hit), will give me $1150 to $1500 for a 64, if I had one, or my A1000, toward the purchase of an A3000. 'Cept, of course, I really only have to give them the cover page of my owners' manual. This discount is off the LIST PRICE ONLY (as I understand it), but it's still a good deal. I'm torn between some disappointment (not like a previous poster) that I bought an A2500/30 at the end of last year, and some admiration for the marketing guts (if they don't alienate the dealers with this) to make the offer. I've used my A2500/30 profitably, so I don't feel "ripped off", just a vague "if only....". Dan Taylor
passaret@copernicus.crd.ge.com ("Mr. Mike" Passaretti) (05/15/91)
In article <1991May14.024619.28101@grebyn.com> ckp@grebyn.com (Checkpoint Technologies) writes: # # So, to make a long [ long long... ] story short - No one has an '040 # Amiga, because they aren't to be had. # # Now, there, wasn't that simple? :-) # # -- # Richard Krehbiel, private citizen ckp@grebyn.com # (Who needs a fancy .signature?) To make a short story somewhat longer. Wrong. They do exist. They do work. They are pretty blinking amazingly fast too. Just because YOU can't get one right now, doesn't mean they aren't to be had. Production quantities of approved and tested and blessed products are another beast all together.... - MM (Who has seen and would love to own one) -- passaretti@crd.ge.com {whatever}!crdgw1!brahe!passaret
ckp@grebyn.com (Checkpoint Technologies) (05/15/91)
In article <19528@crdgw1.crd.ge.com> <passaretti@crd.ge.com> writes: > >In article <1991May14.024619.28101@grebyn.com> ckp@grebyn.com >(Checkpoint Technologies) writes: ># ># So, to make a long [ long long... ] story short - No one has an '040 ># Amiga, because they aren't to be had. > >To make a short story somewhat longer. Wrong. They do exist. >They do work. They are pretty blinking amazingly fast too. >Just because YOU can't get one right now, doesn't mean they >aren't to be had. Production quantities of approved and >tested and blessed products are another beast all together.... I'll rephrase... No one within the sound of my voice (er, withing sight of my posting) has an '040 Amiga. If anyone did, they would speak up. There are apparently two camps. One says "if I can't buy it it doesn't exist", or at least "if I can't buy it, I shouldn't let it color my buying decision". This is a conservative view. There is the other camp which says "if there's a semi-working prototype, it exists, and I'm willing to let this fact alter my buying decision". This view is somewhat more risky, because the prototype may never become a commercial product at all. But this is more fun to talk about. -- Richard Krehbiel, private citizen ckp@grebyn.com (Who needs a fancy .signature?)
billc@cryo.UUCP (William J. Coldwell) (05/16/91)
In article <1991May14.024619.28101@grebyn.com> ckp@grebyn.com (Checkpoint Technologies) writes: [stuff deleted] >So, to make a long [ long long... ] story short - No one has an '040 >Amiga, because they aren't to be had. ^^^^^^ Your evaluation of the situation is incorrect. >Now, there, wasn't that simple? :-) Yes, very. >Richard Krehbiel, private citizen ckp@grebyn.com -- William J. Coldwell PLink: CRYO I'm a 3-DPro, wouldn't you Amiga Attitude Adjuster BIX: wjcoldwell like to be a 3-DPro2 ? Cryogenic Software UUCP:billc@cryo 3-D PROFESSIONAL 2.0 #define STD_DSCLMR "The above opinions are mine. You can't have them."
dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (05/16/91)
In article <ftbH7eo@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > >In article <1991May9.202323.5208@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes: > > > What is this, some sort of subliminal message? How would the value INCREASE? > And how dishonest of you to buy a computer, keep it 3.5 years, and give a > $250 discount... > >What's wrong with selling a computer for what it's worth? So, what if >I can buy a NeXT for $3250 educational and sell it for $3000 in 3 >years. There is NOTHING wrong with that. > >-Mike Unless it is made of titanium and is gold plated, I would expect it to wear out some parts. The nExt is not the most perfectly designed machine (who would put the power switch right on the keyboard; kind of like the DEC terminals at schools where the logout key is right nExt to the RETURN key). And if the nExt is worth that much, I would assume that it is very similar to owning an Amiga 1000. An Amiga 1000 is fully compatible with 95% of all of the Amiga hardware and software available today. Is the nExt? Will it be? I hear it doesn't even run SVR4. -- begin 644 dh3:uploads/killchip M```#\P`````````"``````````$````_`````0```^D````_,_Q```#?\)HLH M>0````1![@%"(%!*D&<``'8B:``*(`EK\`R10VAI<&;H#*@`"````!AEWB0\4 M`!```)2H`!@B/``(``"2@B)H`!`@"="I``1*D6<.#(``"```9```,B)18.B3F MJ0`$DZ@`''`(2$`M0``^D((A0``8<@!![@`B<!?26%'(__Q&03"!?@!@!'X*D M=`!X"$A$*@0D1-J%FH(@1'0@T<)"D"8%EH1T():"(4,`!#5\"G\`""5\`/P#I M,@`*-7P`!0`.)40`%"5%`!@E2``0)@66A'0@EH(E0P`<(DI![@%"3J[_$#/\) JP```W_":(`=P`$YU```````````#[`````````/R```#ZP````$```/R+ `` end size 312
wfaust@venus.UUCP (Wolf Faust) (05/16/91)
In article <1991May14.024619.28101@grebyn.com> ckp@grebyn.com (Checkpoint Technologies) writes: >So, to make a long [ long long... ] story short - No one has an '040 >Amiga, because they aren't to be had. As far as I've been told, X-Pert in Germany delivers '040 since this week. Costs are ~3500DM. the board comes with 4MB RAM. Address: X-Pert Weiherwiese 27 D-W-6270 Idstein Germany Tel: ++49-6126-8809 Doubt's? Me too... what Kickstart/WB do they use??? As far as I know, there are only developer Kickstarts out there, which can handle the '040 properly... hmm do they pirate kickstart ? ;-) --- Wolf Faust cbmvax!cbmehq!cbmger!venus!wfaust Tel: +(49)69-5486556 FIDO: 2:243/43.5
dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (05/16/91)
In article <o#3H6uz@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: >In article <1991May10.172410.6666@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > > There's nothing wrong with it. It is simply that if you > think in three years anyone will actually PAY YOU 3 grand, you've > got a few screws loose. 8-) > >So, what do you think a $5000 computer that runs at 15 mips with a 17" >display will be worth in 3 years? The 15 mips will be surpassed easily; you will have a second-hand machine, althogh functional. The 17" monitor is harder to call...there appears to be great hope that the nExt generation of monitors will make current monitors obselete, both in portability and quality. I would love to hang my monitor on the wall... Last of all, it is a nExt, so I doubt the average guy will buy it. Very few people need one, which is shown by the small amount of workstations sold compared to 'personal' computers. Good luck trying to sell it to the government or some smucky business... > >-mIKE -- begin 644 dh3:uploads/killchip M```#\P`````````"``````````$````_`````0```^D````_,_Q```#?\)HLH M>0````1![@%"(%!*D&<``'8B:``*(`EK\`R10VAI<&;H#*@`"````!AEWB0\4 M`!```)2H`!@B/``(``"2@B)H`!`@"="I``1*D6<.#(``"```9```,B)18.B3F MJ0`$DZ@`''`(2$`M0``^D((A0``8<@!![@`B<!?26%'(__Q&03"!?@!@!'X*D M=`!X"$A$*@0D1-J%FH(@1'0@T<)"D"8%EH1T():"(4,`!#5\"G\`""5\`/P#I M,@`*-7P`!0`.)40`%"5%`!@E2``0)@66A'0@EH(E0P`<(DI![@%"3J[_$#/\) JP```W_":(`=P`$YU```````````#[`````````/R```#ZP````$```/R+ `` end size 312
cma5_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Chin) (05/18/91)
>>>Conversly, the C=64 I bought 6-7 years ago for $395.- is now worth >>>between $1150.- to $1500.- The Amiga1000 I bought when it came out >>>for $1500.- would be worth the same if I were brain-dead enough to >>>want to sell it. > >>You are joking, right? You'd be lucky to get $350 for your A1000 now (in fact, > >No joke. Commodore, or perhaps their dealers (I don't know who takes the >hit), will give me $1150 to $1500 for a 64, if I had one, or my A1000, >toward the purchase of an A3000. 'Cept, of course, I really only have to >give them the cover page of my owners' manual. This discount is off the >LIST PRICE ONLY (as I understand it), but it's still a good deal. > Interesting calculation to come up with a $1100+ C64. Do you really thing that way. I don't think C= lost any money selling you a $2500 A3000, just whoever get this deal is a lesser sucker. I am not saying the upgrade program is no good. In fact, it's probably the best deal for those who really needed or wanted to upgrade for awhile. My point is: if you are really going to upgrade, then your C64 MANUAL is worth $1100+, your C64 is not. Tell me how much you can ask for a 6-7 years C64 in July. Good luck! chin