melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (05/04/91)
(Gregory R Block) writes:
I wasn't the one crying out. And of course the majority of people who
do Word Processing don't use WP because it doesn't have any graphics
support. THat doesn't mean I don't want WP. It just means that I
want it better than it exists now. And what of the people that bought
it? You think they want to go and buy another just because it sucked?
No, now that they're here, I want continued support. WP dropped the
amiga because their product sucked. All of the magazines said so.
And nobody except for the few bought it. Frankly, there are lots of
better wp's than WP. I use PenPal, and there's many others... Of
course, you've never used a one of them, so watch the comments.
I'm just repeating what Amiga zealots have told me. Word processing
is weak on the Amiga.
That's a tad too large for an executable. I understand now why you
think like you do. Of course, I pity you. If you need that much
space on your hard disk for one application, you need much more
storage than is easily attainable by your greedy little hands, I take
it... I imagine the NeXT might actually be decent when you use a 1.2
GB drive.
How many apps have your purchased for your Amiga? The smallest HD
that NeXT ships with there machines is 105MB, of which you have
20-40MB free. NeXT sells 105MB, 200MB, 400MB, and 600MB systems, if
you want more disk space.
Also, drives are getting cheap, you can buy a 660MB drive for around
$1500, if you buy from a third party.
Of course, flames aren't necessary, and if you feel it necessary to
use them, be my guest, but I won't stand idly by, either. I can chew
your shaggy, ugly butt out as easily as the next guy. And frankly,
I'm sure I can do things with my Amiga that you probably couldn't
think of... You don't have IPC, do you? Or large amounts of software?
Of course, the NeXT has IPC. What do you consider to be a large
amount of software? How much good productivity software can you get
for the Amiga?
And at least I can relax with a game. Either you are seriously
sexually repressed, or you could use a vacation. Even a computer as
sorry as a Mac can do the things you say, albeit for more money,
assuming you don't get the Next with 16mb of ram and a 1.2 gb hd to
hold your system software... And even then they'll have color on you.
24 bit, not that 12 bit crap. Christ, even the lowly Amiga has $500
24 bit color... Sway your comments toward dev/null, pal. I'm sure
your system will appreciate the only support it will get.
Ok, am I missing something or am I arguing with an idiot? The Amiga
500 and friends(A3000 is better...) have 4096 colors which is the same
as the NeXTstation color. 2^12 = 4096. It's pretty bad when a user
of a different brand of computer has to give you the facts about your
machine.
Let's get this straight, the 105MB NeXT does hold all of the system
software. Otherwise, it would boot up when you turned the power on.
The 20MB of demos, source and examples aren't system software. The
average Joe is not going to need man pages. Sooooooo, NeXT said let's
leave them off so the machine doesn't cost as much.
I think some of you guys should be required to take a written test
before you are allowed on the net. I'm not saying that all Amiga
people are ignorant, but some of you guys definitely are.
-Mike
God, I just wasted 15 minutes arguing with someone who doesn't know
how many colors his computer has. What a time sucker?gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) (05/05/91)
From article <8raGbu-=1@cs.psu.edu>, by melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger): > I'm just repeating what Amiga zealots have told me. Word processing > is weak on the Amiga. Then you were told wrong, and based your "facts" on hearsay. Sounds like a convincing case, your honor. > How many apps have your purchased for your Amiga? The smallest HD > that NeXT ships with there machines is 105MB, of which you have > 20-40MB free. NeXT sells 105MB, 200MB, 400MB, and 600MB systems, if > you want more disk space. Yes, 20-40mb free, but it doesn't have enough space for everything. Why not just go all the way, and get a few 1.2 gb hard drives??? I imagine that the 20-40 mb is excluding swap-space for vm? > > Also, drives are getting cheap, you can buy a 660MB drive for around > $1500, if you buy from a third party. That would be fine, if it wasn't nExt-to-necessary to buy one. > Of course, the NeXT has IPC. What do you consider to be a large > amount of software? How much good productivity software can you get > for the Amiga? Name the application type, and someone can probably name two or three good packages. Can you say the same? > > Ok, am I missing something or am I arguing with an idiot? The Amiga Not unless you're talking to yourself again. > 500 and friends(A3000 is better...) have 4096 colors which is the same > as the NeXTstation color. 2^12 = 4096. It's pretty bad when a user > of a different brand of computer has to give you the facts about your > machine. No kidding. Of course, the NEXTSTATION COLOR has that. And that's more money, and then you need a huge hard drive to hold the software, and that's more money.... and more ram, and that's more money... > > Let's get this straight, the 105MB NeXT does hold all of the system > software. Otherwise, it would boot up when you turned the power on. > The 20MB of demos, source and examples aren't system software. The > average Joe is not going to need man pages. Sooooooo, NeXT said let's I could slap you for that one. What do you mean, the average user won't need man pages? Have you lost your mind??? I even sometimes need them. I needed them when I started using workstations. I use them for references, sometimes. What about all of the other nifty software? And how's about all that workspace that's left??? I think maybe 105 mb wouldn't be enough given the things I like to do. I think maybe 650 might fill it nicely. I do a lot of graphics work. And that takes up space on a hard drive. > leave them off so the machine doesn't cost as much. Fooling the user into thinking he can have it all, and then realizing he needs more space to really sink his teeth into a nExt. > I think some of you guys should be required to take a written test > before you are allowed on the net. I'm not saying that all Amiga > people are ignorant, but some of you guys definitely are. And I think maybe you should know more about what you talk about than just what you hear from other users... > God, I just wasted 15 minutes arguing with someone who doesn't know > how many colors his computer has. What a time sucker? I don't remember saying I don't know how many colors my computer has. If you can't realize that, you have problems. I was referring to the average NeXT buyer, and his mono system... -- All opinions are my own, and not those of my employer. Why? He doesn't know I'm doing this. -Wubba
MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (05/05/91)
In article <8raGbu-=1@cs.psu.edu>, melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) says: > >(Gregory R Block) writes: > > hold your system software... And even then they'll have color on you. > 24 bit, not that 12 bit crap. Christ, even the lowly Amiga has $500 > 24 bit color... Sway your comments toward dev/null, pal. I'm sure > your system will appreciate the only support it will get. > >Ok, am I missing something or am I arguing with an idiot? The Amiga >500 and friends(A3000 is better...) have 4096 colors which is the same >as the NeXTstation color. 2^12 = 4096. It's pretty bad when a user >of a different brand of computer has to give you the facts about your >machine. He was referring to such products as DCTV and Colorburst: 24 bit color, for 500 dollars extra, vs. NeXTStation Color: 12 bit color (which Amigas come with straight out of the box) for at least 2000 dollars extra if not more. Hmmm. / Mark "Remixed for Common Household Appliances" Sachs - MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu \ | DISCLAIMER: It's NOT MY FAULT. Kei and Yuri || // || | forced me to say it. || \X/ AMIGA || \== "I think this calls for some diabolical laughter! RAAH HA HA HA HA HA!" ==/
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (05/05/91)
In article <11772@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes: > I'm just repeating what Amiga zealots have told me. Word processing > is weak on the Amiga. Then you were told wrong, and based your "facts" on hearsay. Sounds like a convincing case, your honor. No, I'm basing my facts on people who I know that own Amigas. They'll be glad to though that they can get better word processors. > How many apps have your purchased for your Amiga? The smallest HD > that NeXT ships with there machines is 105MB, of which you have > 20-40MB free. NeXT sells 105MB, 200MB, 400MB, and 600MB systems, if > you want more disk space. Yes, 20-40mb free, but it doesn't have enough space for everything. Why not just go all the way, and get a few 1.2 gb hard drives??? I imagine that the 20-40 mb is excluding swap-space for vm? Everything is a lot of stuff. I filled up two optical disks(233MB each) with everything. There is always more to get if you want it. > Of course, the NeXT has IPC. What do you consider to be a large > amount of software? How much good productivity software can you get > for the Amiga? Name the application type, and someone can probably name two or three good packages. Can you say the same? Taxes, accounting, CAD, spreadsheets. NeXT only has two strong contenders in one of these(spreadsheets). The rest are void. How many top rated applications exist for the Amiga that are rated as good as the ones for other computers? > > Ok, am I missing something or am I arguing with an idiot? The Amiga Not unless you're talking to yourself again. Are you the goof who doesn't know how many colors the Amiga has? > 500 and friends(A3000 is better...) have 4096 colors which is the same > as the NeXTstation color. 2^12 = 4096. It's pretty bad when a user > of a different brand of computer has to give you the facts about your > machine. No kidding. Of course, the NEXTSTATION COLOR has that. And that's more money, and then you need a huge hard drive to hold the software, and that's more money.... and more ram, and that's more money... 17" color monitors cost a lot. At a million pixels, how many colors does the Amiga have? It is expensive, and I won't be buying one I admit. It's mono. for me. I could slap you for that one. What do you mean, the average user won't need man pages? Have you lost your mind??? I even sometimes need them. I needed them when I started using workstations. I use them for references, sometimes. What about all of the other nifty software? And how's about all that workspace that's left??? I think maybe 105 mb wouldn't be enough given the things I like to do. I think maybe 650 might fill it nicely. I do a lot of graphics work. And that takes up space on a hard drive. Then you will have to buy a bigger hard disk or get another computer. What do you use for a reference on the Amiga? Do you really thing everyone needs the man page for fopen() online? > leave them off so the machine doesn't cost as much. Fooling the user into thinking he can have it all, and then realizing he needs more space to really sink his teeth into a nExt. NeXT publishes what is included on both the small release and the Extended release of the softare. I don't see how they're misleading anyone. > I think some of you guys should be required to take a written test > before you are allowed on the net. I'm not saying that all Amiga > people are ignorant, but some of you guys definitely are. And I think maybe you should know more about what you talk about than just what you hear from other users... I will listen with more caution if that person owns an Amiga. > God, I just wasted 15 minutes arguing with someone who doesn't know > how many colors his computer has. What a time sucker? I don't remember saying I don't know how many colors my computer has. If you can't realize that, you have problems. I was referring to the average NeXT buyer, and his mono system... You said the A500 had 24 bit color! You were wrong! -Mike
gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) (05/05/91)
From article <j62G$a1*1@cs.psu.edu>, by melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger): > Everything is a lot of stuff. I filled up two optical disks(233MB > each) with everything. There is always more to get if you want it. Yes, but you have already shown us how easily 233 mb can be filled up. If an application can take up that much space, who knows how much else you could fill. Just because you filled up both doesn't equal numbers of applications... And I think maybe we could still beat you in quality software. If for no reason than the simple fact that we've been around longer. > Taxes, accounting, CAD, spreadsheets. NeXT only has two strong Cad is a lovely one for us. DynaCADD is one of the best cad packages in the computer world, ranging from the ST to the IBM, to the Mac, and now the Amiga. And it has more functions than any of the others on the Amiga version. Spreadsheets. Okay, lemme grab my handy Amigaworld, for listing any others than DBMAN V...And I belive SuperBase 4 Professional is supposed to be one of the best relational databases available... Presentation software: Scala beats all. Elan Performer is also nice. Showmaker isn't exactly left out, either. Multimedia: CanDO, AmigaVision, and a couple of others, not my forte, sorry. Music/Midi: Tiger Cub, KCS, DMCS, Master Tracks Pro, Bars & Pipes /Pro, one of the best out on ANY market, and you can ask Atlanta about that. And lots more here. I won't even begin to get into the graphics software. 3d: 3-D Professional, Turbo Silver SV, Imagine, Toaster/LightWave, and tons more. Oh yeah, the obvious: Sculpt-Animate 4d, with its predecessor on the Mac. And there's so many more. Tax. I don't do this on the Amiga, so I don't know much. TaxBreak by Oxxi is supposed to be okay, though. Word Processing. Tough one, there's a ton. Pen Pal, Excellence!, ProWrite, WP (sucks, but somewhat standard in other worlds), Office Gold, QuickWrite, Scribble, and more. DTP: PageStream, ProPage, ProScript (?), Saxon Publisher, and others. Any other categories you'd like to see listed? And I'm sure other people can list more. Do you even have this number of applications available TOTAL??? > contenders in one of these(spreadsheets). The rest are void. How > many top rated applications exist for the Amiga that are rated as good > as the ones for other computers? I've just listed a handful. > Are you the goof who doesn't know how many colors the Amiga has? No, I'm the goof who knows how many colors a NeXTStation doesn't. > 17" color monitors cost a lot. At a million pixels, how many colors > does the Amiga have? It is expensive, and I won't be buying one I admit. > It's mono. for me. But of course you can have it for the Amiga. You only have to wait until the graphics cards are available. And then you'll have a lot more than 4096 colors as a total palette. > Then you will have to buy a bigger hard disk or get another computer. > What do you use for a reference on the Amiga? Do you really thing > everyone needs the man page for fopen() online? No, but what if you do. That's right, I'd get another computer. One of the faster RISC stations, and probably pay as much as a COLOR NeXTStation. Actually, I'd probably get an A3000UX, because I wouldn't want to give up such a great real-time OS like AmigaOS 2.0. > NeXT publishes what is included on both the small release and the > Extended release of the softare. I don't see how they're misleading > anyone. You wouldn't. > You said the A500 had 24 bit color! You were wrong! > You're kidding, right? No, I'm not so stupid as to say something like that. I know how many colors the Amiga has, both in palette, and in HAM. Maybe you're thinking of someone else, then. Because I DEFINITELY did not say that. Maybe that color was CHEAPER, or it CAN have 24 bit color for $500 bucks, but NOT that it came with it. -- All opinions are my own, and not those of my employer. Why? He doesn't know I'm doing this. -Wubba
mpierce@ewu.UUCP (Mathew Pierce) (05/05/91)
In article <j62G$a1*1@cs.psu.edu>, melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > > In article <11772@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes: > [lots of stuff deleted because my mailer made me.] > > You said the A500 had 24 bit color! You were wrong! Mike, he never said that the Amiga has 24 bit color, I looked up the arcticle and he said,"even the lowly Amiga has $500 24 bit color." It appears that you are rushing through the posts too quickly and seeing what you want to see, not what is actually being said. My advice to you - sit back, relax, and have a Dove Bar. > > -Mike -Matt Pierce
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (05/05/91)
In article <11785@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes: Yes, but you have already shown us how easily 233 mb can be filled up. If an application can take up that much space, who knows how much else you could fill. Just because you filled up both doesn't equal numbers of applications... And I think maybe we could still beat you in quality software. If for no reason than the simple fact that we've been around longer. I filled two opticals with sounds, free software, etc. There were't any NeXTApps on them. Cad is a lovely one for us. DynaCADD is one of the best cad packages in the computer world, ranging from the ST to the IBM, to the Mac, and now the Amiga. And it has more functions than any of the others on the Amiga version. Does it have more functions than the ones on the PC? I guess Commodore has aquired a niche in the CAD market. Spreadsheets. Okay, lemme grab my handy Amigaworld, for listing any others than DBMAN V...And I belive SuperBase 4 Professional is supposed to be one of the best relational databases available... Think you're going to convince PC users to leave their machines for these pieces of software? [multitudes of applications deleted] Any other categories you'd like to see listed? And I'm sure other people can list more. Do you even have this number of applications available TOTAL??? I'm not sure how much NeXT software is available at this time. If all of these applications are available, why is the games section the largest section in Commodore's software pamphlet that came with our A2500? Everything else looked pathetic. But of course you can have it for the Amiga. You only have to wait until the graphics cards are available. And then you'll have a lot more than 4096 colors as a total palette. I'll add that to my list of Amiga products I'm waiting on. > NeXT publishes what is included on both the small release and the > Extended release of the softare. I don't see how they're misleading > anyone. You wouldn't. Nope. -Mike
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (05/06/91)
In article <1566@ewu.UUCP> mpierce@ewu.UUCP (Mathew Pierce) writes: Mike, he never said that the Amiga has 24 bit color, I looked up the arcticle and he said,"even the lowly Amiga has $500 24 bit color." It appears that you are rushing through the posts too quickly and seeing what you want to see, not what is actually being said. My advice to you - sit back, relax, and have a Dove Bar. > > -Mike I've gone over the edge, help :-). I only have 2 dozen more articles to follow up too. You're right I have been pushing myself too hard. I thought that he said the $500 Amiga 500 has 24 bit color. Sorry about that. -Mike
gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) (05/06/91)
From article <?x4G51w*1@cs.psu.edu>, by melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger): > I filled two opticals with sounds, free software, etc. There were't > any NeXTApps on them. See, I told you that you needed a 1.2GB drive to be happy. :) > Cad is a lovely one for us. DynaCADD is one of the best cad packages > in the computer world, ranging from the ST to the IBM, to the Mac, and > now the Amiga. And it has more functions than any of the others on > the Amiga version. > > Does it have more functions than the ones on the PC? I guess > Commodore has aquired a niche in the CAD market. It certainly does. > > Spreadsheets. Okay, lemme grab my handy Amigaworld, for listing any > others than DBMAN V...And I belive SuperBase 4 Professional is > supposed to be one of the best relational databases available... > > Think you're going to convince PC users to leave their machines for > these pieces of software? Obviously, you seem to think that I give a damn about PC users. And both of these are better than what you can offer on the NeXT. They beat Improv hands down. Besides this, we're not talking about reasons to sway pc users, are we? Just showing up the NeXT, that's all. > I'm not sure how much NeXT software is available at this time. Problem is, neither is Jobs. :) > If all of these applications are available, why is the games section > the largest section in Commodore's software pamphlet that came with > our A2500? Everything else looked pathetic. I thought that little pamphlet was stupid. That was not what I went by when I bought it. And it may be different, now, remember they are trying to change their image. I wonder what comes with the 3000. And maybe it's just because we have the best games available. > I'll add that to my list of Amiga products I'm waiting on. Why would you be waiting? You'll have nothing to wait for on your NeXT, that's for sure. Slabs don't expand. -- All opinions are my own, and not those of my employer. Why? He doesn't know I'm doing this. -Wubba
6600dmx@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Richard A. Boyd) (05/06/91)
Before you start flaming about how ignorant Amiga peopl are, you better take a long look in the mirror.
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (05/06/91)
In article <?x4G51w*1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > Does it have more functions than the ones on the PC? I guess > Commodore has aquired a niche in the CAD market. So what's the NeXT's NiCHe? Students aren't it... they're just a loss leader to build exposure. > Think you're going to convince PC users to leave their machines for > these pieces of software? Good question. What's on the NeXT that's going to attract PC users? -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (05/08/91)
In article <8raGbu-=1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > >(Gregory R Block) writes: > > >I'm just repeating what Amiga zealots have told me. Word processing >is weak on the Amiga. That is absolutely not true. My Amiga word processors beat Word Perfect hands down, as well as Microsoft Word for the Mac. You obviously have friends who are still using the word processor from the Appetizer disk. > That's a tad too large for an executable. I understand now why you > it... I imagine the nExt might actually be decent when you use a 1.2 > GB drive. > >How many apps have your purchased for your Amiga? The smallest HD >that nExt ships with there machines is 105MB, of which you have >20-40MB free. nExt sells 105MB, 200MB, 400MB, and 600MB systems, if >you want more disk space. I have a 40 meg hard drive, and 2.5 megs of ram, with the following software on my HARD DRIVE, plus lots of other stuff, and tons of pictures, fonts and source code, which fill a 12 megabyte partition: Quarterback: hard drive back up, defragmenter BAD: defragmentor Project D: floppy copy program, software catalog tool, parameters Disk X: disk editor NewZap: file editor AZ: text editor CED: ARexx text editor SID: file utility program DMSwin, Zoom, Lharc, Arc, Zoo, Booz, PkaZip, Lhunarc, Unarc, PowerPacker, Turbo Imploder, Warp, NibWarp, Unwarp: disk/file compressors Virus X, Virus Checker HiSoft Basic: BASIC compiler Amiga BASIC: BASIC interpreter Lattice C: C compiler Kick Pascal: Pascal compiler ARexx: Rexx interpreter DICE: C compiler PCQ: Pascal compiler Amax II: Macintosh emulator Bars and Pipes: music program Deluxe Music Construction Set: music program Sonix: sound program Future Sound: sound program Pagesetter 1.61: desktop publisher Pagestream 1.3: desktop publisher Pro Page 2.0: desktop publisher Pro Draw: structured drawing program for desktop publishers Pro Write 3.0: word processor excellence 2.0: word processor Imagine: 3D modeling program Turbo Silver: 3D modeling program Sculpt 3D: 3D modeling program Surface Master: Imagine surface program Pixel 3D: 2D to 3D image converter Deluxe Paint III: IFF paint program, animation Photon Paint 2.0: HAM paint program, animation SpectraColor: HAM paint program, animation The Art Department: converts files from various formats Image Lab: converts files from various formats Aegis Draw 2000: CAD structured drawing program Pixmate: use to adjust attributes of HAM and IFF pictures JR Comm 1.02: terminal program, VT100, zmodem Handshake 2.20: terminal program, VT100, external protocols QIX Sim City Blockout >Also, drives are getting cheap, you can buy a 660MB drive for around >$1500, if you buy from a third party. Yeah, if your a rich cheap person. I bought my hard drive for $250. > Of course, flames aren't necessary, and if you feel it necessary to > use them, be my guest, but I won't stand idly by, either. I can chew > your shaggy, ugly butt out as easily as the next guy. And frankly, > I'm sure I can do things with my Amiga that you probably couldn't > think of... You don't have IPC, do you? Or large amounts of software? > >Of course, the nExt has IPC. What do you consider to be a large >amount of software? How much good productivity software can you get I consider large amounts of software to be more than what is currently available for the nExt. >for the Amiga? > > And at least I can relax with a game. Either you are seriously > sexually repressed, or you could use a vacation. Even a computer as > sorry as a Mac can do the things you say, albeit for more money, > assuming you don't get the nExt with 16mb of ram and a 1.2 gb hd to > hold your system software... And even then they'll have color on you. > 24 bit, not that 12 bit crap. Christ, even the lowly Amiga has $500 > 24 bit color... Sway your comments toward dev/null, pal. I'm sure > your system will appreciate the only support it will get. > >Ok, am I missing something or am I arguing with an idiot? The Amiga You are missing the point. For a 24bit color board, that works on ANY Amiga computer, ask for: DCTV $389 ColorBurst $500 (currently available in Australia) Ham-E $289 16.7 million colors to choose from :). >500 and friends(A3000 is better...) have 4096 colors which is the same >as the nExtstation color. 2^12 = 4096. It's pretty bad when a user >of a different brand of computer has to give you the facts about your >machine. Here is a fact about the nExt: It is way overpriced, sluggish, wasteful with memory, has extremely poor expandability, and isn't in too many American households. >Let's get this straight, the 105MB nExt does hold all of the system >software. Otherwise, it would boot up when you turned the power on. >The 20MB of demos, source and examples aren't system software. The >average Joe is not going to need man pages. Sooooooo, nExt said let's >leave them off so the machine doesn't cost as much. > >I think some of you guys should be required to take a written test >before you are allowed on the net. I'm not saying that all Amiga >people are ignorant, but some of you guys definitely are. And out of good sportsmanship, I suggest you volunteer to be the first. >-Mike > >God, I just wasted 15 minutes arguing with someone who doesn't know >how many colors his computer has. What a time sucker? And out of the kindness of my heart, I spent another 15 minutes making corrections to your misinterpretations. -- David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3481 AMIGA DDD-MEN "If you think that we're here for the money, we could live without it. But the world isn't too good here, and it wasn't always like that." Un ragazzo di Casalbordino, Italia.
torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) (05/08/91)
dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes: > I have a 40 meg hard drive, and 2.5 megs of ram, with the following >software on my HARD DRIVE, plus lots of other stuff, and tons of pictures, >fonts and source code, which fill a 12 megabyte partition: >Quarterback: hard drive back up, defragmenter >BAD: defragmentor >Project D: floppy copy program, software catalog tool, parameters >Disk X: disk editor >NewZap: file editor >AZ: text editor >CED: ARexx text editor >SID: file utility program >DMSwin, Zoom, Lharc, Arc, Zoo, Booz, PkaZip, Lhunarc, Unarc, >PowerPacker, Turbo Imploder, Warp, NibWarp, Unwarp: disk/file compressors >Virus X, Virus Checker >HiSoft Basic: BASIC compiler >Amiga BASIC: BASIC interpreter >Lattice C: C compiler >Kick Pascal: Pascal compiler >ARexx: Rexx interpreter >DICE: C compiler >PCQ: Pascal compiler >Amax II: Macintosh emulator >Bars and Pipes: music program >Deluxe Music Construction Set: music program >Sonix: sound program >Future Sound: sound program >Pagesetter 1.61: desktop publisher >Pagestream 1.3: desktop publisher >Pro Page 2.0: desktop publisher >Pro Draw: structured drawing program for desktop publishers >Pro Write 3.0: word processor >excellence 2.0: word processor >Imagine: 3D modeling program >Turbo Silver: 3D modeling program >Sculpt 3D: 3D modeling program >Surface Master: Imagine surface program >Pixel 3D: 2D to 3D image converter >Deluxe Paint III: IFF paint program, animation >Photon Paint 2.0: HAM paint program, animation >SpectraColor: HAM paint program, animation >The Art Department: converts files from various formats >Image Lab: converts files from various formats >Aegis Draw 2000: CAD structured drawing program >Pixmate: use to adjust attributes of HAM and IFF pictures >JR Comm 1.02: terminal program, VT100, zmodem >Handshake 2.20: terminal program, VT100, external protocols >QIX >Sim City >Blockout > Yeah, if your a rich cheap person. I bought my hard drive for $250. ^^^^ Seems to me like there are a LOT of commercial applications in your list of software on your hard disk. How on earth could you avoid all those programs, yet you don't want to buy a $1000 hard disk?? > David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3481 AMIGA DDD-MEN -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Evan Torrie. Stanford University, Class of 199? torrie@cs.stanford.edu "And in the death, as the last few corpses lay rotting in the slimy thoroughfare, the shutters lifted in inches, high on Poacher's Hill..."
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (05/08/91)
In article <1991May8.001619.12563@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes: >In article <8raGbu-=1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: >> >>(Gregory R Block) writes: >> >> >>I'm just repeating what Amiga zealots have told me. Word processing >>is weak on the Amiga. > > That is absolutely not true. My Amiga word processors beat Word Perfect >hands down, as well as Microsoft Word for the Mac. You obviously have friends >who are still using the word processor from the Appetizer disk. > OK. I love my Amiga and all, and praise it all I can, but there are limits. ProWrite can't even do freakin FOOTNOTES! Of the "big names", i.e. ProWrite, Excellence, WordPerfect and Pen Pal, only Excellence and WP do. I don't consider WP Amiga to be particularly useful as it is annoyingly slow and still somewhat buggy. NONE of the Amiga word processors give high-quality printouts to your standard 300dpi laser printers/inkjets, unless you have postscript, and even then the support is poor. You can't even BUY the fonts. I haven't used MS Word all that much, but here is what I like about WordPerfect 5.1: Formula editor for entering complicated mathematical equations of all types. Excellent font support/printer support/network support. Precise setting of tab stops, margins, etc., by typing in a number of inches. Support for tables and direct import from spreadsheets. Columns can start anywhere in your document and end anywhere in your document. Import structured graphics from other programs. Mail merge. Now, admittedly, it isn't the most user-friendly of programs. It takes a bit of getting used to, i.e. you have to adapt to it not vice versa. But it is rather bug free in return. I certainly have no problems using it and find it far easier to use than graphics-oriented programs cause I can see what is going on with much more detail. I also prefer the all-keyboard approach. Oh yes, nothing beats WP macros. It is a FULL programming language. As always, I already know all the advantages that the Amiga has in various areas, I don't need to be reminded. ARexx is real nice, if only a WP supported it. But our WP software is the worst part of the Amiga, behind even the spreadsheets and databases! (I happen to think we have good databases and decent spreadsheets. I don't consider our wordprocessors to even be decent. I've USED the others) -- Ethan "Brain! Brain! What is Brain?"
greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Harp) (05/08/91)
In article <1991May8.014526.15073@neon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes: > Seems to me like there are a LOT of commercial applications in your >list of software on your hard disk. How on earth could you avoid all those >programs, yet you don't want to buy a $1000 hard disk?? I don't suppose he could have spent that $1000 on software _instead_ of a hard disk, could he? Nahhh.... :-) Think of it this way: For $1250 you can have lots of commercial apps and a 40MB HD ($1000 for software + the $250 drive) -OR- you can have a totally empty 660MB drive (if you shop around). Well, empty except for PD and/or pirated software (I don't support piracy...). If you've only got a set amount to spend, you are obviously not going to get a big, empty HD. In my case, I probably earn more than the average student (Hey, would I develop for MessyDOS for any other reason? NO!!). I still have to pay for little necessities like, oh, my _apartment_. I can't blow $1000 for a HD unless I really need that HD. (Actually, I guess I spent about $1000 on my computer last summer, but I also spent at least $2500 on school and my apartment. The computer expansion included things like 3MB of RAM and a 140MB HD.) It seems that Apple's "They'll be willing to pay a little extra" philosophy is spreading... Greg -- Greg Harp |"I was there to match my intellect on national TV, | against a plumber and an architect, both with a PhD." greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu| -- "I Lost on Jeopardy," Weird Al Yankovic
barrett@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Dan Barrett) (05/09/91)
>dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes: >[lots of programs on a small hard drive] >[implies he cannot afford a $1500 hard drive] In article <1991May8.014526.15073@neon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) retorts: > Seems to me like there are a LOT of commercial applications in your >list of software on your hard disk. How on earth could you avoid all those ^^^^^ "afford"? >programs, yet you don't want to buy a $1000 hard disk?? Come ON, man, that is a silly question. If someone spends a lot of money on programs, does that automatically imply he should have a lot of money LEFT OVER for an expensive hard disk?? Of course not! Personally, I have to save money for a long time to afford an expensive piece of hardware. Buying a (less expensive) software package now and then, building up a nice collection, is less strenuous on the budget. I took offense at your posting because it appeared (to me) that you were subtly suggesting that he is a pirate. I don't know the guy, personally, but I do know when suppositions are being made with insufficient evidence. Dan //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ | Dan Barrett, Department of Computer Science Johns Hopkins University | | INTERNET: barrett@cs.jhu.edu | | | COMPUSERVE: >internet:barrett@cs.jhu.edu | UUCP: barrett@jhunix.UUCP | \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////
torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) (05/09/91)
greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Harp) writes: >In article <1991May8.014526.15073@neon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes: >> Seems to me like there are a LOT of commercial applications in your >>list of software on your hard disk. How on earth could you avoid all those ^^^^^ Did I really write that? Boy that shows you what reading news at 1 a.m. in the morning does to you. Of course I meant "afford". >>programs, yet you don't want to buy a $1000 hard disk?? >Think of it this way: For $1250 you can have lots of commercial apps and a >40MB HD ($1000 for software + the $250 drive) -OR- you can have a totally >empty 660MB drive (if you shop around). Well, empty except for PD and/or >pirated software (I don't support piracy...). Or you could have a 200MB ($700) hard disk and $500 worth of software. It just seemed strange to me that the original post had a large number of repeated application programs (e.g. three DTP packages, three word processors etc). I would have thought you really only would need one of each type, especially if you're strapped for cash. I would rather have a 200MB hard disk, and one of each type of commercial application, and fill the rest up with PD software.. Then again, I just hate floppy disks :-) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Evan Torrie. Stanford University, Class of 199? torrie@cs.stanford.edu "Cold is God's way of telling us to burn more Catholics" - Lady Whiteadder
dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (05/10/91)
In article <j62G$a1*1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > >In article <11772@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes: >Taxes, accounting, CAD, spreadsheets. nExt only has two strong >contenders in one of these(spreadsheets). The rest are void. How >many top rated applications exist for the Amiga that are rated as good >as the ones for other computers? 3d ray tracers and paint programs are YEARS ahead of other computers. Actually, as far as price + performance, MOST Amiga programs are a better value than other computers. > > Ok, am I missing something or am I arguing with an idiot? The Amiga > > Not unless you're talking to yourself again. > >Are you the goof who doesn't know how many colors the Amiga has? The person didn't state that the Amiga 500 has 24 bit color; he stated that an Amiga 500 can get a $500 video board with 24 bit color. Actually, there are now four of them available from $280 - $500. > > 500 and friends(A3000 is better...) have 4096 colors which is the same > > as the nExtstation color. 2^12 = 4096. It's pretty bad when a user > > of a different brand of computer has to give you the facts about your > > machine. > > No kidding. Of course, the nExtSTATION COLOR has that. And that's > more money, and then you need a huge hard drive to hold the software, > and that's more money.... and more ram, and that's more money... > I could slap you for that one. What do you mean, the average user > won't need man pages? Have you lost your mind??? I even sometimes > need them. I needed them when I started using workstations. I use > them for references, sometimes. What about all of the other nifty > software? And how's about all that workspace that's left??? I think > maybe 105 mb wouldn't be enough given the things I like to do. I > think maybe 650 might fill it nicely. I do a lot of graphics work. > And that takes up space on a hard drive. > >Then you will have to buy a bigger hard disk or get another computer. >What do you use for a reference on the Amiga? Do you really thing >everyone needs the man page for fopen() online? Yes, everyone needs to know. Before you talk about the 'average Joe' and now you talk about the 'experienced programmer'. > > leave them off so the machine doesn't cost as much. > > Fooling the user into thinking he can have it all, and then realizing > he needs more space to really sink his teeth into a nExt. > >nExt publishes what is included on both the small release and the >nExtended release of the softare. I don't see how they're misleading >anyone. 20 - 40 megs of disk space is hardly adequate for a nExt. > > > I think some of you guys should be required to take a written test > > before you are allowed on the net. I'm not saying that all Amiga > > people are ignorant, but some of you guys definitely are. > > And I think maybe you should know more about what you talk about than > just what you hear from other users... > > God, I just wasted 15 minutes arguing with someone who doesn't know > > how many colors his computer has. What a time sucker? > > I don't remember saying I don't know how many colors my computer has. It was Mike's fault for not understanding the original post about 24 bit video boards for $300 - $500. > If you can't realize that, you have problems. I was referring to the > average nExt buyer, and his mono system... > >You said the A500 had 24 bit color! You were wrong! He said the A500 + $500 video board has 24 bit color! He was right! > >-mIKE > -- David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3481 AMIGA DDD-MEN "If you think that we're here for the money, we could live without it. But the world isn't too good here, and it wasn't always like that." Un ragazzo di Casalbordino, Italia.
dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (05/10/91)
In article <11785@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes: >From article <j62G$a1*1@cs.psu.edu>, by melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger): >DTP: PageStream, ProPage, ProScript (?), Saxon Publisher, and others. You are probably referring to Pro Vector, which is not a DTP. It is like Pro Draw...a structured drawing program for use with DTPs. >> Are you the goof who doesn't know how many colors the Amiga has? > >No, I'm the goof who knows how many colors a nExtStation doesn't. > We won that, hands down! >> 17" color monitors cost a lot. At a million pixels, how many colors >> does the Amiga have? It is expensive, and I won't be buying one I admit. >> It's mono. for me. Exactly. Who really needs color anyway? Might as well retract that statement you made earlier about how the nExt wil have awesome games soon... > >But of course you can have it for the Amiga. You only have to wait >until the graphics cards are available. And then you'll have a lot >more than 4096 colors as a total palette. Actually, you will only have to wait as long as it takes to call up a dealer and order one over night express! There are currently three 24 bit boards available NOW, each costing less than $500. And they work on ANY Amiga. >> Then you will have to buy a bigger hard disk or get another computer. >> What do you use for a reference on the Amiga? Do you really thing >> everyone needs the man page for fopen() online? > >No, but what if you do. That's right, I'd get another computer. One >of the faster RISC stations, and probably pay as much as a COLOR >nExtStation. Actually, I'd probably get an A3000UX, because I >wouldn't want to give up such a great real-time OS like AmigaOS 2.0. > >> nExt publishes what is included on both the small release and the >> nExtended release of the softare. I don't see how they're misleading >> anyone. > >You wouldn't. > >> You said the A500 had 24 bit color! You were wrong! >> > >You're kidding, right? No, I'm not so stupid as to say something like >that. I know how many colors the Amiga has, both in palette, and in >HAM. Maybe you're thinking of someone else, then. Because I >DEFINITELY did not say that. Maybe that color was CHEAPER, or it CAN >have 24 bit color for $500 bucks, but NOT that it came with it. And I quote, 'even the lowly Amiga for $500' can have 24 bit color. Meaning, the lowly Amiga can have 24 bit color with a $500 graphics board, as stated more than enough times. >-- >All opinions are my own, and not those of my employer. >Why? He doesn't know I'm doing this. > -Wubba -- David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3481 AMIGA DDD-MEN "If you think that we're here for the money, we could live without it. But the world isn't too good here, and it wasn't always like that." Un ragazzo di Casalbordino, Italia.
dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (05/10/91)
In article <?x4G51w*1@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: >In article <11785@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes: > >Think you're going to convince PC users to leave their machines for >these pieces of software? People buy PCs because they NEED to for running the same software they use at work; they don't buy them because they need a machine with superior value. >I'm not sure how much nExt software is available at this time. Enough that it all comes with the machine. >If all of these applications are available, why is the games section >the largest section in Commodore's software pamphlet that came with >our A2500? Everything else looked pathetic. That software pamphlet is old, and is not a complete catalog of all Amiga software. > But of course you can have it for the Amiga. You only have to wait > until the graphics cards are available. And then you'll have a lot > more than 4096 colors as a total palette. > >I'll add that to my list of Amiga products I'm waiting on. Open up any recent, err even old, Amiga World, and look for the numerous ads for Hame E, Colorburst, DCTV, Firecracker, etc. These ads have been in there for MANY months...probably as much as a year. The reason you are still waiting is because you pumped all of your money into a nExt. >-mIKE -- David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3481 AMIGA DDD-MEN "If you think that we're here for the money, we could live without it. But the world isn't too good here, and it wasn't always like that." Un ragazzo di Casalbordino, Italia.
gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) (05/11/91)
From article <1991May9.201230.5062@sbcs.sunysb.edu>, by dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio): > In article <11785@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes: >>From article <j62G$a1*1@cs.psu.edu>, by melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger): > >>DTP: PageStream, ProPage, ProScript (?), Saxon Publisher, and others. > > You are probably referring to Pro Vector, which is not a DTP. It is like > Pro Draw...a structured drawing program for use with DTPs. Hmm. No, ProScript. Not ProVector. I'm beginning to wonder if ProScript is something that hasn't been released yet... Time to file through all the listings again... > We won that, hands down! No kidding. :) > > And I quote, 'even the lowly Amiga for $500' can have 24 bit color. > Meaning, the lowly Amiga can have 24 bit color with a $500 graphics board, > as stated more than enough times. I thought maybe I had said something like that... :) -- All opinions are my own, and not those of my employer. Why? He doesn't know I'm doing this. -Wubba
dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (05/13/91)
In article <1991May8.014526.15073@neon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes: >dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes: > >> I have a 40 meg hard drive, and 2.5 megs of ram, with the following >>software on my HARD DRIVE, plus lots of other stuff, and tons of pictures, >>fonts and source code, which fill a 12 megabyte partition: > [ lots of evidence deleted] > >> Yeah, if your a rich cheap person. I bought my hard drive for $250. > ^^^^ > > Seems to me like there are a LOT of commercial applications in your >list of software on your hard disk. How on earth could you avoid all those >programs, yet you don't want to buy a $1000 hard disk?? > The company I work for bought most of the software that is not public domain. Second, why should I buy a $1000 hard disk when I can get a $250 hard disk that does the job just as well? >> David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3481 AMIGA DDD-MEN > > >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Evan Torrie. Stanford University, Class of 199? torrie@cs.stanford.edu >"And in the death, as the last few corpses lay rotting in the slimy > thoroughfare, the shutters lifted in inches, high on Poacher's Hill..." -- David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3481 AMIGA DDD-MEN "If you think that we're here for the money, we could live without it. But the world isn't too good here, and it wasn't always like that." Un ragazzo di Casalbordino, Italia.
bruce@zuhause.MN.ORG (Bruce Albrecht) (05/18/91)
In article <12055@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes: >From article <1991May9.201230.5062@sbcs.sunysb.edu>, by dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio): >> In article <11785@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes: >>>From article <j62G$a1*1@cs.psu.edu>, by melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger): >> >>>DTP: PageStream, ProPage, ProScript (?), Saxon Publisher, and others. >> >> You are probably referring to Pro Vector, which is not a DTP. It is like >> Pro Draw...a structured drawing program for use with DTPs. > >Hmm. No, ProScript. Not ProVector. I'm beginning to wonder if >ProScript is something that hasn't been released yet... Time to file >through all the listings again... It's available. I've seen the box in my local Amiga store. Haven't looked at it though, since I just bought PageStream. -- bruce@zuhause.mn.org