peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (05/13/91)
In article <1991May9.044759.27402@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> sparkie@uhura.cs.wisc.edu (Mark Horn) writes: > If it is not obvious, postings which state > the superiority of amigas do not have anything to do with comp.sys.next - > thus a user of comp.sys.next can "flame" someone who is not achieving > those goals. And the superiority of NeXTs to Amigas, Macs, PC (see, it's not just Amigas that are getting beat on here) etc has little to do with c.s.amiga.advocacy. And it's not a "recent" glut, either. Folks who are into the NeXT have been bashing the Amiga since this group was created. They have also been using this group as an excuse to bash Suns, IBM-clones, Macs, and everything else as well. This is a classic case of blaming the victim. It wasn't Amiga users who started this flame war... it was an ex-Amiga user who has found a new religion (I guess when the Amiga developers said "we're here to bring you a computer, not a religion" he got disenchanted...) that did that. A NeXT user. Quit blaming the victim, observe and set followups appropriately (clue: alt.flame is rarely appropriate), and create a comp.sys.next.advocacy so your fanatics can find a place to live. Capiche? -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
dwboyce@acsu.buffalo.edu (Doug Boyce) (05/14/91)
In article <1991May13.002647.187@sugar.hackercorp.com> peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
:
:And the superiority of NeXTs to Amigas, Macs, PC (see, it's not just Amigas
:that are getting beat on here) etc has little to do with c.s.amiga.advocacy.
:
:And it's not a "recent" glut, either. Folks who are into the NeXT have been
:bashing the Amiga since this group was created. They have also been using this
:group as an excuse to bash Suns, IBM-clones, Macs, and everything else as
:well.
:
:This is a classic case of blaming the victim. It wasn't Amiga users who started
:this flame war... it was an ex-Amiga user who has found a new religion (I guess
:when the Amiga developers said "we're here to bring you a computer, not a
:religion" he got disenchanted...) that did that. A NeXT user.
:
:Quit blaming the victim, observe and set followups appropriately (clue:
:alt.flame is rarely appropriate), and create a comp.sys.next.advocacy so
:your fanatics can find a place to live.
Since when does the actions of a few condemn an entire group?
--
Doug Boyce dwboyce@acsu.buffalo.edu
"Speedballs are interesting if you aren't the cannoneer doing the running."
"Where's that Lotto ticket, I want a NeXT NoW!"melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (05/14/91)
In article <1991May13.002647.187@sugar.hackercorp.com> peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
[ I've gone wild bashing everyone deleted]
Hey Peter,
I call it as I see it, and I give credit where credit is due. I've
said some good things about the Amiga. It is nice for animation, and
I have even said that the Amiga does a better job at it than the NeXT.
I've said the NeXTStep is better than OpenLook, and I said that the
040 NeXT is comparable to a SPARC 1+ in speed. I didn't massively
flame Sun. I haven't said much bad about Apple. However, did I
mention that ballon help is probably the only thing in System 7.0
qthat NeXTStep 2.0 doesn't contain? IBM, well I won't pass up chance
to bash them.
There has been a little educational value out of all this. Several
people have stated that Display Postscript doesn't necessarily have to
be slow(whether NeXT's implementation is efficient wasn't really
discussed). The blitter on this great animation machine is not even
as fast as an 030 for most operations, and some Amiga users have even
gone so far as to use the 030 instead. Wait till they get their 040
upgrades and find that it's three times faster than the 030. The
blitter must just be retired. Can we conclude that 20-30fps of
animation is quite possible on the NeXT, so we can all play games on
the machine while we do a little work. Or is that the other way
around :-).
Some of the arguing has been about NeXT not giving all of their free
software on the 105MB computers. Another thread was about the sorry
state of word processing on the Amiga. A few Amiga users pointed out
that it could be a lot better.
People have been complaining that the NeXTstation is not expandable
and I've been trying to persuade them that is not too important(You
can add more RAM, HD, modem, etc., of course) It's better IMHO to sell
your old machine and buy a new machine in a few years, if you really
want to upgrade.
One of the reason that I find the NeXT so exciting is that the average
businessman can get a personal workstation. The horsepower of a Sun
plus the user friendliness of a Mac. But you think that an IBM PC/XT
is all that most people will ever need? Right Peter? Computer
scientist should have retired after 1983?
-Mikemelling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (05/15/91)
In article <1991May14.131904.9788@sugar.hackercorp.com> peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes: (OK, it's a cheap shot. But someone has to do it) > One of the reason that I find the NeXT so exciting is that the average > businessman can get a personal workstation. The horsepower of a Sun > plus the user friendliness of a Mac. Which Sun? Which Mac? The NeXT is comparable to a SPARC 1+ in speed, so every SPARC <= SPARC 1+. The SPARC II faster(I can let you know by how much in a week), and it does cost $14,000. In all fairness, it is a color machine with some graphics hardware. However, J. Random Suit isn't going to pay $14K for an SSII. The NeXT is a killer machine, but I'm damned if I can figure out what it's for. > But you think that an IBM PC/XT > is all that most people will ever need? It's all that J. Random Suit needs. Unless, he wants to run Lotus 123 3.0 or Excel 3.0. What is the probably of that? Maybe you can market your idea? IBM doesn't even make an XT anymore. You could sell $400 computers to all of those fools who spend big bucks on 386 computers. We've come a long way Peter. You can emulate a 10MHz 286 IBM PC with an EGA monitor in software on the NeXT. -Mike
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (05/15/91)
In article <pcH*=g4@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > >In article <1991May14.131904.9788@sugar.hackercorp.com> peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes: > > > But you think that an IBM PC/XT > > is all that most people will ever need? > > It's all that J. Random Suit needs. > >Unless, he wants to run Lotus 123 3.0 or Excel 3.0. What is the >probably of that? Maybe you can market your idea? IBM doesn't even >make an XT anymore. You could sell $400 computers to all of those >fools who spend big bucks on 386 computers. And this is exactly what Commodore does in Europe. All people are telling about death of the XTs. Rubbish. We're selling tons of those little, cheap PC 10's and 20's (the latter even has a harddisk!). There are still enough people around who have to consider their wallet. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (05/15/91)
In article <pcH*=g4@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: > > But you think that an IBM PC/XT is all that most people will ever need? > It's all that J. Random Suit needs. > Unless, he wants to run Lotus 123 3.0 or Excel 3.0. What is the > probably of that? The probability? That he wants to run them? 1.0. That he needs to? delta. In any case he can get a $1000 386SX box instead of a $400 8088 box. DOS software is just as fast on an SX as a DX, so a real 386 is overkill. This will leave him $4000 that he didn't spend on a NeXT for software. > We've come a long way Peter. You can emulate a 10MHz 286 IBM PC with > an EGA monitor in software on the NeXT. That's a reason to pay more than 10 times as much for that PC? I thought DOS emulation in the Amiga was a cute sales idea, but not terribly useful. It's no better in the NeXT. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) (05/19/91)
In article <1225@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >In article <pcH*=g4@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes: >> >>In article <1991May14.131904.9788@sugar.hackercorp.com> peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes: >> >> > But you think that an IBM PC/XT >> > is all that most people will ever need? >> >> It's all that J. Random Suit needs. >> >>Unless, he wants to run Lotus 123 3.0 or Excel 3.0. What is the >>probably of that? Maybe you can market your idea? IBM doesn't even >>make an XT anymore. You could sell $400 computers to all of those >>fools who spend big bucks on 386 computers. > >And this is exactly what Commodore does in Europe. All people are >telling about death of the XTs. Rubbish. We're selling tons of those >little, cheap PC 10's and 20's (the latter even has a harddisk!). >There are still enough people around who have to consider their >wallet. This is a point I have made before. I know people with plenty of money, who also recognize that they will only use their home PC once in a while to do some small task like word processing, a small spreadsheet, or their tax returns. In a case like this, where you have a machine that is only lightly used, why spend a lot of money. An XT clone will usually fit the bill. And at a price of about $500 or $600 you can get a monochrome screen and a twenty megabyte disk. If you only turn the thing on once or twice a month, then why pay more? Rick Kelly rmk@rmkhome.UUCP frog!rmkhome!rmk rmk@frog.UUCP