johns@dworkin.Amber.COM (John Silvia) (05/22/91)
Although I am not currently looking, the idea of dropping out of the software company I am in (34 Largest in the world) and going into the Amiga Business world is attractive to me (and probably to lots of people out there too!) My question is this: Does anyone know of any list of companies that actually use the Amiga as a replacement for the PC. I am talking about big companies that have their own tech support, etc. There are lots of small 2 person companies that use Amiga's or PC's to get rolling, and most Video or Multimedia houses know about them or use them, but where can an Amiga enthusiest go for work in his preferred field.
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (05/22/91)
In article <L5VB32w163w@dworkin.Amber.COM> johns@dworkin.Amber.COM (John Silvia) writes: >Although I am not currently looking, the idea of dropping out of the >software company I am in (34 Largest in the world) and going into the Amiga >Business world is attractive to me (and probably to lots of people out there >too!) > >My question is this: Does anyone know of any list of companies that >actually use the Amiga as a replacement for the PC. I am talking about big >companies that have their own tech support, etc. There are lots of small 2 >person companies that use Amiga's or PC's to get rolling, and most Video or >Multimedia houses know about them or use them, but where can an Amiga >enthusiest go for work in his preferred field. If you're looking for a company that gave up all other computers for the Amiga, with the intention of doing serious level business work on the Amiga, you probably won't find it. Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) (05/23/91)
In article <L5VB32w163w@dworkin.Amber.COM> johns@dworkin.Amber.COM (John Silvia) writes: >Although I am not currently looking, the idea of dropping out of the >software company I am in (34 Largest in the world) and going into the Amiga >Business world is attractive to me (and probably to lots of people out there >too!) I would hope so. >My question is this: Does anyone know of any list of companies that >actually use the Amiga as a replacement for the PC. I am talking about big >companies that have their own tech support, etc. Probably not exclusively. In the business world, the Amiga is a niche item. The 'standard' architectures have ignored the Amiga's file system and standards to the point of providing no real way to transfer files or formats. Regardless of how good the Amiga's business software gets, it will always have this roadblock. Company A, if they went all Amiga, would have no way of transferring files with Company B, who would be all-IBM or all-Mac. One way is all it would go. Of course, if a company needs not worry about this, the Amiga's an option. Over at the Stanford Linear Accelerator, Amigas are used as Tektronics terminals and TeX engines for all those nifty scientific documents. Hewlett-Packard uses an Amiga-equipped studio as their production and communications center. I'm sure I could find other, equally impressive examples, but only within niches. 'Course, you could look at Commodore ('cept that they use Macs & Colts, don't they? ;-) Dave Hopper | /// Anthro Creep | Academic Info Resources, Stanford |__ /// . . | and NeXT Campus Consultant bard@jessica. |\\\/// Ia! Ia! | -- Just remember: love is life, and Stanford.EDU | \XX/ Shub-Niggurath! | hate is living death. :Black Sabbath
swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) (05/23/91)
In article <1991May22.211703.22445@leland.Stanford.EDU> bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) writes: [...] >formats. Regardless of how good the Amiga's business software gets, it >will always have this roadblock. Company A, if they went all Amiga, >would have no way of transferring files with Company B, who would be >all-IBM or all-Mac. One way is all it would go. This is not true. It is quite easy to transfer files back and forth between the Amiga and Macs or IBMs. There are many easy-to-use utilities that do this. This is not a problem. -- _. --Steve ._||__ Warren v\ *| V
bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) (05/23/91)
In article <1991May22.222801.4049@convex.com> swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: >In article <1991May22.211703.22445@leland.Stanford.EDU> bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) writes: > [...] >>formats. Regardless of how good the Amiga's business software gets, it >>will always have this roadblock. Company A, if they went all Amiga, >>would have no way of transferring files with Company B, who would be >>all-IBM or all-Mac. One way is all it would go. > >This is not true. It is quite easy to transfer files back and forth between >the Amiga and Macs or IBMs. There are many easy-to-use utilities that do >this. This is not a problem. Since when? I know of *no* IFF viewers/soundplayers or converters for the Mac. Pictures must be converted to GIF on the Amy to be viewed by a Mac (I don't know about the IBM). Is there an Amiga file manager on the Mac or the IBM, like Mac2DOS or MessyFileSystem on the Amy? As far as I know, it's a one-way trip. Alternate file formats must be managed by the Amiga. > _. >--Steve ._||__ > Warren v\ *| > V Dave Hopper | /// Anthro Creep | Academic Info Resources, Stanford |__ /// . . | and NeXT Campus Consultant bard@jessica. |\\\/// Ia! Ia! | -- Just remember: love is life, and Stanford.EDU | \XX/ Shub-Niggurath! | hate is living death. :Black Sabbath
ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) (05/23/91)
In <1991May23.012705.24776@leland.Stanford.EDU> bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) writes: >In article <1991May22.222801.4049@convex.com> swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: >>In article <1991May22.211703.22445@leland.Stanford.EDU> bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) writes: >> [...] >>>formats. Regardless of how good the Amiga's business software gets, it >>>will always have this roadblock. Company A, if they went all Amiga, >>>would have no way of transferring files with Company B, who would be >>>all-IBM or all-Mac. One way is all it would go. >> >>This is not true. It is quite easy to transfer files back and forth between >>the Amiga and Macs or IBMs. There are many easy-to-use utilities that do >>this. This is not a problem. > >Since when? I know of *no* IFF viewers/soundplayers or converters for >the Mac. Pictures must be converted to GIF on the Amy to be viewed by a >Mac (I don't know about the IBM). Is there an Amiga file manager on the >Mac or the IBM, like Mac2DOS or MessyFileSystem on the Amy? As far as I >know, it's a one-way trip. Alternate file formats must be managed by >the Amiga. [ There is a product for the Macintosh that can convert/edit/whatever IFF graphics (plus a dozen others like GIF, PIC, Targa etc.), it was tested in a recent issue of the Personal Computer Magazine (the Dutch equivalent of Byte), and was praised like the Messiah. (Sort of like The Art Department Professional) ] In what serious workforce (except graphics/video firms) do the employees play sounds and view GIFs all day? The important files are 1-2-3, WP, DBaseIII+/IV and CAD applications. Since most of these programs do not exist on the Amiga yet (WP-Amiga is not up to par, but there are some good CAD programs), the problem is really simple: Why on earth would I want to use an Amiga instead of a PC if I do not need it? Technically speaking, the problem is twofold anyway: 1. How do I get those files over there? 2. How do I get those files in the format I want? The answer to problem 1 is easy: Use one of the various (good) programs like CrossDos. Mac2Dos etc. The answer to problem 2 is more difficult (your GIF example illustrates this, though I have an IFF <-> GIF converter for the Amiga; sound is utterly unimportant except maybe in advanced research fields like speech recognition). Now you could add 'problem 0.': 'Serious' companies use 'serious' software, not 'creative' software. As it stands now, I would rather label the Amiga creative than serious. (This does most certainly NOT mean that the Amiga is not *suited* for serious software). BTW, the 'Valkieser groep' is a professional video production studio here in Holland. They make graphics for Dutch TV, and have a small studio to shoot small commercials. They use three systems: The Silicon Graphics Iris, Cubicon (it is an orphaned product, but there are still software updates for it), and, (by now you should have guessed it :) the Amiga. They use it mainly for interfacing video/genlocking with bigger systems, but some graphics has been used as well (Like on the programs Einstein, Lingo and Boggle. Though all gameshows, the graphics are pro!) > >> _. >>--Steve ._||__ >> Warren v\ *| >> V > >Dave Hopper | /// Anthro Creep | Academic Info Resources, Stanford > |__ /// . . | and NeXT Campus Consultant >bard@jessica. |\\\/// Ia! Ia! | -- Just remember: love is life, and > Stanford.EDU | \XX/ Shub-Niggurath! | hate is living death. :Black Sabbath -ThomasT. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ____ Thomas Tavoly, Commercial Computer Science - HEAO Utrecht, NL. / / / "Whoever talks too much, has no time to think." - Peter Tavoly. AMIGA / Favourite quote: "The Mac OS is amazingly complex, ____ / / / .sig v3.0e given how little it does." - Peter da Silva \ \ \/ / / ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>> ptavoly@praxis.cs.ruu.nl <<~~~~~~~~~ \_\_\/_/
griffin@frith.egr.msu.edu (Danny Griffin) (05/23/91)
ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) writes: >... the problem is really simple: Why on earth would I want >to use an Amiga instead of a PC if I do not need it? Ans. The Operating System! -- Dan Griffin griffin@frith.egr.msu.edu
swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) (05/23/91)
In article <1991May23.012705.24776@leland.Stanford.EDU> bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) writes: >In article <1991May22.222801.4049@convex.com> swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: >>In article <1991May22.211703.22445@leland.Stanford.EDU> bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) writes: [...] >>> ... Company A, if they went all Amiga, >>>would have no way of transferring files with Company B, who would be >>>all-IBM or all-Mac. One way is all it would go. [...] >>This is not true. It is quite easy to transfer files back and forth between >>the Amiga and Macs or IBMs. There are many easy-to-use utilities that do >>this. This is not a problem. [...] >Since when? I know of *no* IFF viewers/soundplayers or converters for >the Mac. ... Since when does "file transfer" == "IFF viewing"? You said that there is "no way of transferring files". This is false. Files can easily be transferred to the Mac or the IBM PC and can easily be transferred to the Amiga from either system. It is one problem to get the file onto the other system intact. That is called transferring. It is an entirely seperate problem to do something useful with the file once it is transferred. That is called processing. Let's not get the 2 mixed up, OK? It is not necessary for the Mac or PC to implement Amiga file managers or Amiga IFF viewers. The Amiga can do the conversions going both directions. As far as IFF vs GIF, the Amiga can convert these formats in either direction as well. If you want word processor compatibility then Word Perfect is available on all 3 platforms. The list goes on. -- _. --Steve ._||__ Warren v\ *| V
torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) (05/23/91)
ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) writes: >In <1991May23.012705.24776@leland.Stanford.EDU> bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) writes: >>Since when? I know of *no* IFF viewers/soundplayers or converters for >>the Mac. Pictures must be converted to GIF on the Amy to be viewed by a >>Mac (I don't know about the IBM). Is there an Amiga file manager on the >>Mac or the IBM, like Mac2DOS or MessyFileSystem on the Amy? As far as I >>know, it's a one-way trip. Alternate file formats must be managed by >>the Amiga. >[ There is a product for the Macintosh that can convert/edit/whatever IFF > graphics (plus a dozen others like GIF, PIC, Targa etc.), it was tested in a > recent issue of the Personal Computer Magazine (the Dutch equivalent of Byte), > and was praised like the Messiah. (Sort of like The Art Department > Professional) ] This is probably Adobe Photoshop, which seems to be able to import and export to almost any graphics file format... it's also a pretty cool 24-bit retouching program to boot. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Evan Torrie. Stanford University, Class of 199? torrie@cs.stanford.edu Murphy's Law of Intelism: Just when you thought Intel had done everything possible to pervert the course of computer architecture, they bring out the 860
awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) (05/24/91)
In article <1991May23.012705.24776@leland.Stanford.EDU> bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) writes: >Since when? I know of *no* IFF viewers/soundplayers or converters for >the Mac. Pictures must be converted to GIF on the Amy to be viewed by a >Mac (I don't know about the IBM). Is there an Amiga file manager on the >Mac or the IBM, like Mac2DOS or MessyFileSystem on the Amy? As far as I >know, it's a one-way trip. Alternate file formats must be managed by >the Amiga. PICTure This(tm) on the Mac will convert Amiga IFF and RIFF files to PICTs. Any Mac with a SuperDrive will read/write DOS disks, and the Amiga can too, so the exchange would be pretty painless.
david@twg.com (David S. Herron) (05/24/91)
In article <1991May23.083717.1055@cs.ruu.nl> ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) writes: >In what serious workforce (except graphics/video firms) do the employees >play sounds and view GIFs all day? The important files are 1-2-3, WP, >DBaseIII+/IV and CAD applications. Since most of these programs do not exist >on the Amiga yet (WP-Amiga is not up to par, but there are some good CAD >programs), the problem is really simple: Why on earth would I want >to use an Amiga instead of a PC if I do not need it? Hmm.. you should see the GIF collection my office mate has ;-) At any rate, part of what I am doing here is developing an e-mail user agent targeted at the X.400 standards. The customers are wanting to be able to do voice, pictures and video. They want an Amiga, right? Since it does it so well? They want this stuff embedded in e-mail messages, BTW. The reason is that as you go from text to speech to still pictures and up to moving pictures, the quality of the communication increases. Check out any beginning linguistics book if you don't believe me. Them business types do a lot of communications, right? So if they want to do effective communications they want to be using the best medium, meaning something better than text. People around here giggle when I suggest putting our stuff onto Amiga's.. (sigh) >Technically speaking, the problem is twofold anyway: > >1. How do I get those files over there? >2. How do I get those files in the format I want? > >The answer to problem 1 is easy: Use one of the various (good) programs like >CrossDos. Mac2Dos etc. What? You don't have a network? Ever hear of ftp, rcp or ftam? The first two are available on AmigaDOS now.. the last could be available if C= were to ask us to port it (to Unix, that is; AmigaDOS would take a little while longer..).. ;-) >The answer to problem 2 is more difficult (your GIF >example illustrates this, though I have an IFF <-> GIF converter for the >Amiga; sound is utterly unimportant except maybe in advanced research fields >like speech recognition). eh? See the above. Pictures *AND* sound are very important for the application I'm talking about above. And I'm talking about normal everyday e-mail, not esoteric things ... >Now you could add 'problem 0.': 'Serious' companies >use 'serious' software, not 'creative' software. As it stands now, I would >rather label the Amiga creative than serious. (This does most certainly NOT >mean that the Amiga is not *suited* for serious software). Yes, that must be why people giggle at me? ;-) David -- <- David Herron, an MMDF & WIN/MHS guy, <david@twg.com> <- Formerly: David Herron -- NonResident E-Mail Hack <david@ms.uky.edu> <- <- "MS-DOS? Where we're going we don't need MS-DOS." --Back To The Future
bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) (05/24/91)
In article <1991May23.162542.20539@convex.com> swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: > >Since when does "file transfer" == "IFF viewing"? > > [...] > >It is one problem to get the file onto the other system intact. That is >called transferring. It is an entirely seperate problem to do something >useful with the file once it is transferred. That is called processing. >Let's not get the 2 mixed up, OK? Granted. I'm sorry I wasn't more explicit. Hell, I know you can transfer files. That's intuitive. I've got a 19.2 Kbaud line between my NeXT and my A500. Of cours'processing'. >It is not necessary for the Mac or PC to implement Amiga file managers or >Amiga IFF viewers. The Amiga can do the conversions going both directions. >As far as IFF vs GIF, the Amiga can convert these formats in either direction >as well. If you want word processor compatibility then Word Perfect is >available on all 3 platforms. The list goes on. But when the Amiga isn't available, you can't rely on your own resources. My question is: is this good? Will it cause a publishing agency to suddenly go out and purchase Amigas, so that they can have access to these formats? Or will it give them Yet Another Excuse (tm) to ignore the Amy and crank their noses just a bit higher? I brought this up because of the tribulations (no pun intended) of a local paper 'MicroTimes' that did a piece on the 'Toaster. They thought it fitting to describe their problems in acquiring graphic images for the article. They use Macs, exclusively, and they had no way of viewing/printing/converting IFF files. I would think that this is how most 'professional' publishing companies work (solely Macintosh, that is). The images were converted to GIF, many miles across the continent, then modem'd to _MicroTimes_ for further conversion (which can only result in image degradation). Yet this is most certainly their own fault, as apparently IFF converters DO exist somewhere for the Mac. They should be more in tune. > _. >--Steve ._||__ > Warren v\ *| > V Take care, Dave Hopper | /// Anthro Creep | Academic Info Resources, Stanford |__ /// . . | and NeXT Campus Consultant bard@jessica. |\\\/// Ia! Ia! | -- Just remember: love is life, and Stanford.EDU | \XX/ Shub-Niggurath! | hate is living death. :Black Sabbath
ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) (05/24/91)
In <1991May23.153644.10681@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> griffin@frith.egr.msu.edu (Danny Griffin) writes: >ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) writes: > >>... the problem is really simple: Why on earth would I want >>to use an Amiga instead of a PC if I do not need it? > >Ans. The Operating System! That is no answer, the more operating systems you use, the more time you spend interfacing, instead of doing your work. (Even if the particular OS might be 'better') Only if you substitute one OS for another, that might make sense. But the possibility of large companies giving up MS-DOS (or System x) is unlikely for some time to come. Interfacing (above) means not only linking the machines and/or OS's but reading documentation etc. as well. There is a learning curve involved (imagine those narrow minded MS-DOS people (it's not their fault!) suddenly thrown into nirvana with AmigaDOS :) and people are lazy by nature (I know, I am :^). >Dan Griffin -ThomasT. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ____ Thomas Tavoly, Commercial Computer Science - HEAO Utrecht, NL. / / / "Whoever talks too much, has no time to think." - Peter Tavoly. AMIGA / Favourite quote: "The Mac OS is amazingly complex, ____ / / / .sig v3.0e given how little it does." - Peter da Silva \ \ \/ / / ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>> ptavoly@praxis.cs.ruu.nl <<~~~~~~~~~ \_\_\/_/
swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) (05/25/91)
In article <1991May24.013706.26825@leland.Stanford.EDU> bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) writes: [...] >is). The images were converted to GIF, many miles across the continent, >then modem'd to _MicroTimes_ for further conversion (which can only >result in image degradation). > >Yet this is most certainly their own fault, as apparently IFF converters >DO exist somewhere for the Mac. They should be more in tune. Actually, I would hope that file conversion routines would get shipped with the Toaster. Being "open" to the world of options that a customer might want to take advantage of is part of the responsiveness that any good company should have towards its customers. I think it is unfortunate that many Amiga customers have to dig up their own conversion utilities. If I was selling an expensive peripheral like the Toaster I would certainly make sure that simple utilities were available to make its output jive with as many platforms as possible. Remember - proprietary formats: Baaaaad - open standards: Gooooood ;^) -- _. --Steve ._||__ Warren v\ *| V
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (05/25/91)
johns@dworkin.Amber.COM (John Silvia) writes: > Although I am not currently looking, the idea of dropping out of the > software company I am in (34 Largest in the world) and going into the Amiga > Business world is attractive to me [...] You mentioned small companies out there, and I guess that would be your best bet: as tech/programmer support for CDTV studios or perhaps some labs which are using Amigas. Another option might be to find a university with lots of Amigas (VMI?) and steal the main managerial job from a student ;-). There are also some companies getting into providing point-of-sale GUI-based systems around the Amiga... now they might be the closest thing you could call an "Amiga business world". luck! - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
nwickham@triton.unm.edu (Neal C. Wickham) (05/25/91)
In article <1991May24.175746.20504@convex.com> swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: > >Actually, I would hope that file conversion routines would get shipped with >the Toaster. Being "open" to the world of options that a customer might want >to take advantage of is part of the responsiveness that any good company >should have towards its customers. I think it is unfortunate that many >Amiga customers have to dig up their own conversion utilities. If I was >selling an expensive peripheral like the Toaster I would certainly make sure >that simple utilities were available to make its output jive with as many >platforms as possible. > Have you gone to your nearest magazine rack lately and looked throuth the Video magazines? Its Amiga, Amiga, Amiga. And in the new issue of Amiga World its video, video, video. I would think that before too much longer in the area of video, that people will be asking if a system can use Amiga files. If I were a programer that wanted to program for Amiga, I'd look into cad/animation for engineers and architects. So much of building design is designing something that will SELL. And not all designers can afford 20 thousand dollar Silicon Graphics workstations. I've seen a builder b bankrupted by one custom home because it wouldn't sell. 200 thousand dollars is a lot of money to have to sit on. NCW
mikeh@touch.touch.com (Mike Haas) (05/25/91)
In article <49410@ut-emx.uucp> awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) writes: > >PICTure This(tm) on the Mac will convert Amiga IFF and RIFF files to PICTs. >Any Mac with a SuperDrive will read/write DOS disks, and the Amiga can too, >so the exchange would be pretty painless. I saw a clip from some Mac rag awhile ago talking about how the Mac was getting into m ultimedia. It stated that apple had developed a standard called MIFF and it was based on the Amiga's IFF standard. The blurb EVEN GAVE THE AMIGA CREDIT for developing the first file standard specifically oriented for multi-media, and specifically mentioned Electronic Arts! Now, with all this attention around the Amiga's IFF files, don't you think there are some Mac hacks out there more than willing to provide connectivity? Thanks for the mention of PICTure This(tm)...I'm sure we will see more and more of this kind of tool on the Mac. After all, these folks want to get work done too!
griffin@frith.egr.msu.edu (Danny Griffin) (05/25/91)
ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) writes: >In <1991May23.153644.10681@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> griffin@frith.egr.msu.edu (Danny Griffin) writes: >>ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) writes: >> >>>... the problem is really simple: Why on earth would I want >>>to use an Amiga instead of a PC if I do not need it? >> >>Ans. The Operating System! >That is no answer, the more operating systems you use, the more time you spend >interfacing, instead of doing your work. (Even if the particular OS might be >'better') Only if you substitute one OS for another, that might make sense. I think that is an answer. :) We use MS-DOG machines at work, and I had to wait 45 minutes one day to transfer data from a hard drive to a floppy so I could take it home because of the single-tasking OS. IMHO, Windows is awful (we don't use it anyway and most of our machines are original ATs), and PC-MIX and others don't always work for all applications. Besides, you talk about learning curves and resistance from MS-DOS people, going those routes are not any easier. Did you ever try to configure Windows? Microsoft is going to launch a new program to install Windows with Windows 3.1 for gosh sakes! They are thinking about implementing a certification program!! This is easy? I have had resisitance when I tried to install 4DOS just so I could get command line history and editing and aliases. What could be easier than the elegant AmigaOS - flipping between screens and CLIs with dmouse? I spend 8 hours a day sometimes helping people with problems that would be non-problems on an Amiga. You were talking about business. I see the bottom line as 'how can I be more productive'? -- Dan Griffin griffin@frith.egr.msu.edu
force@minnie.cs.su.OZ.AU (Jason Henry Den Dulk) (05/27/91)
> In what serious workforce (except graphics/video firms) do the employees > play sounds and view GIFs all day? The important files are 1-2-3, WP, > DBaseIII+/IV and CAD applications. Since most of these programs do not exist > on the Amiga yet (WP-Amiga is not up to par, but there are some good CAD > programs), the problem is really simple: Why on earth would I want > to use an Amiga instead of a PC if I do not need it? [stuff deleted] > like speech recognition). Now you could add 'problem 0.': 'Serious' companies > use 'serious' software, not 'creative' software. As it stands now, I would > rather label the Amiga creative than serious. (This does most certainly NOT > mean that the Amiga is not *suited* for serious software). Talking about file format compatability. Maxiplan+ uses 1-2-3 format files, dbMAN V uses DbaseIII files, and WP is available for the amiga. Therefore file transfer for 'serious' (and the definition of what's serious depends on what you do) files is just as painless. Also PageStream 2.1 supports GIF, TIFF and other file formats so transfering files Mac/IBM <-> Amy is even less painful. MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU force@cs.su.oz
ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) (05/27/91)
In <1991May25.042959.12386@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> griffin@frith.egr.msu.edu (Danny Griffin) writes: >>That is no answer, the more operating systems you use, the more time you spend >>interfacing, instead of doing your work. (Even if the particular OS might be >>'better') Only if you substitute one OS for another, that might make sense. > >I think that is an answer. :) We use MS-DOG machines at work, and I had to [some deleted] >What could be easier than the elegant AmigaOS - flipping between screens and CLIs with dmouse? > >I spend 8 hours a day sometimes helping people with problems that would >be non-problems on an Amiga. You were talking about business. I see the >bottom line as 'how can I be more productive'? I totally agree of course, but what you do here is (as I said) substituting one OS for another. I can imagine that once MS-DOS users get the hang of it, they want to get rid of their MS-DOS machine, but unfortunately, there must be an initial introduction to Amigas and that is something for the managers to decide (who only see those big buck IBM ads). >Dan Griffin >griffin@frith.egr.msu.edu -Thomas. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ____ Thomas Tavoly, Commercial Computer Science - HEAO Utrecht, NL. / / / "Whoever talks too much, has no time to think." - Peter Tavoly. AMIGA / Favourite quote: "The Mac OS is amazingly complex, ____ / / / .sig v3.0e given how little it does." - Peter da Silva \ \ \/ / / ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>> ptavoly@praxis.cs.ruu.nl <<~~~~~~~~~ \_\_\/_/
mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) (05/28/91)
In article <1991May27.101538.6959@cs.ruu.nl> ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) writes: >In <1991May25.042959.12386@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> griffin@frith.egr.msu.edu (Danny Griffin) writes: >>>That is no answer, the more operating systems you use, the more time you spend >>>interfacing, instead of doing your work. (Even if the particular OS might be >>>'better') Only if you substitute one OS for another, that might make sense. >> >>I think that is an answer. :) We use MS-DOG machines at work, and I had to > >[some deleted] > >>What could be easier than the elegant AmigaOS - flipping between screens and CLIs with dmouse? >> >>I spend 8 hours a day sometimes helping people with problems that would >>be non-problems on an Amiga. You were talking about business. I see the >>bottom line as 'how can I be more productive'? > >I totally agree of course, but what you do here is (as I said) substituting one OS for >another. I can imagine that once MS-DOS users get the hang of it, they want to get rid >of their MS-DOS machine, but unfortunately, there must be an initial introduction to >Amigas and that is something for the managers to decide (who only see those big buck IBM >ads). > >>Dan Griffin >>griffin@frith.egr.msu.edu > > -Thomas. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ____ >Thomas Tavoly, Commercial Computer Science - HEAO Utrecht, NL. / / / >"Whoever talks too much, has no time to think." - Peter Tavoly. AMIGA / >Favourite quote: "The Mac OS is amazingly complex, ____ / / / > .sig v3.0e given how little it does." - Peter da Silva \ \ \/ / / >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>> ptavoly@praxis.cs.ruu.nl <<~~~~~~~~~ \_\_\/_/ As someone with a little experience using the Amiga in the workplace, I found that the Amiga is incredibly difficult for the masses to master. The startup-sequence is a complex program to most users... Even as good as 2.0 appears to be, to the non-technical user, there are lots of problems - like why some icons can be "left out" on the workbench while others can't... Interestingly enough, here in the SF Bay area, there are a huge number of companies that actually use the PC to make PC-oriented products. For them, learning the machine is part of learning their product line. I'm sure that if/when the masses of companies start supporting the Amiga, there will be a lot more of them in business for this reason. -- **************************************************** * I want games that look like Shadow of the Beast * * but play like Leisure Suit Larry. * ****************************************************
jonabbey@cs.utexas.edu (Jonathan David Abbey) (05/29/91)
In article <215@touch.touch.com> mikeh@touch.touch.com (Mike Haas) writes: | | I saw a clip from some Mac rag awhile ago talking about how the Mac was | getting into m ultimedia. It stated that apple had developed a standard | called MIFF and it was based on the Amiga's IFF standard. The blurb | EVEN GAVE THE AMIGA CREDIT for developing the first file standard | specifically oriented for multi-media, and specifically mentioned | Electronic Arts! AAAAAHHHHRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Okay, unneccessarily violent. Sue me.) Why, Lord? Why another IFF derivative file format? If Microsoft and Apple feel that they could use an IFF type standard, why don't they use the one that already exists rather than going their own (presumably incompatible) way? I mean, I can understand that Microsoft would want to promulgate a standard that used Intel byte ordering, but what's Apple's execuse? Didn't feel like registering with Electronic Arts? Uhrrrrr... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan David Abbey \"Fortune presents gifts not according to the the university of texas at austin \ book" - Dead Can Dance "I've got to computer science/math?/psychology? \ jonabbey@cs.utexas.edu stay Awake..."
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (05/31/91)
Heres a question for you... Why would even WANT to use Lotus, Wordperfect, and DBase on the Amiga? They suck! There are MUCH BETTER equivalents to these programs on the Amiga. Ones that would make IBM users drool. Hell, I have PD word processors that have twice as many control options as does Wordperfect, and its FREE, as opposed to shelling out $500 for WP 5.0...Idiots. Arc
aru@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Sri-Man) (06/02/91)
In article <arctngnt.1472@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: >many control options as does Wordperfect, and its FREE, as opposed to shelling >out $500 for WP 5.0...Idiots. What programs? What do you mean more control options than WP...give me some evidence of it. The only WP that I know that even comes close to WP is Excellence. You tell me.. :-) Sri aru@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/02/91)
In article <13078@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> aru@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Sri-Man) writes: >In article <arctngnt.1472@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: >>many control options as does Wordperfect, and its FREE, as opposed to shelling >>out $500 for WP 5.0...Idiots. > >What programs? What do you mean more control options than WP...give me some >evidence of it. The only WP that I know that even comes close to WP is >Excellence. You tell me.. :-) > I'm HOPING he is referring to TeX, which comes far closer than any commercial Amiga Word Processor, but then again, it isn't a word processor. It is almost its own concept. It is more like writing your document in PostScript. You have enormous flexibility, and some macros make your life somewhat easier. But, you have to write your document is some generic text editor and send it to the TeX program to "run" it. There are some areas where a word processor can make your life easier that TeX can't simply because it isn't running, a text editor is. It'll be interesting to see an editor designed around TeX, written to write TeX "code" for you. Of course, DisplayTeX would be ... > Sri > aru@mentor.cc.purdue.edu Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (06/02/91)
In article <arctngnt.1472@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes:
Heres a question for you... Why would even WANT to use Lotus, Wordperfect, and
DBase on the Amiga? They suck!
There are MUCH BETTER equivalents to these programs on the Amiga. Ones that
would make IBM users drool. Hell, I have PD word processors that have twice as
many control options as does Wordperfect, and its FREE, as opposed to shelling
out $500 for WP 5.0...Idiots.
You seem to be overlooking the compatibility factor. Many (millions
of) computer users simply use their machines for 123 and Word Perfect.
That is their primary criteria for choosing a computer. People who
want to do a little work at home are going to buy a cheap DOS machine
instead of an A500 because these two products are not available for
it. Maybe it's just me, but I think Commodore is missing out on a few
sales by not having these products on their machines. Very good
substitutues that are file(read AND write) compatible are probably
acceptable.
-Mike