PYC136@uriacc.uri.edu (Andy Patrizio) (06/06/91)
"Dan Galpin (Amiga-quester" <galpin@ucscb.ucsc.edu> writes:
[*** WARNING. TANGENT APPROACHING! ***]
(*** BY the way.. have you checked MacGeek (The Macintosh Weekly Magazine) :-)
lately.. People sell 50Mhz MacIIFX repackages with 128MBytes of RAM (using
16 MB simms.) Show me an Amiga that can currently be expanded to 128Megs of RAM.
Knowing Apple products, that Mac will probably cost more than a fully-
loaded Lexus LS400, and won't be anywhere near as well built.
Secondly, what in the world do you need 128 Meg of RAM for? Even UNIX doesn't
suck up that much memory.
It sounds to me like a computer version of the Spruce Goose. Big, ugly, awkward
and useless.
.signed,
/ Andy Patrizio | Bitnet: pyc136@uriacc.bitnet \
/ University of Rhode Island | Internet: pyc136@uriacc.uri.edu \
/ | ARPA: pyc136%uriacc@brownvm.brown.edu \
\ // Amiga... what else? | Usenet: uunet!rayssd!idsvax!andypo /
\ \\// | UUCP: andypo@idsvax.uucp /
\ \/ "What a thrilling life..." -- Precious Metal /torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) (06/06/91)
PYC136@uriacc.uri.edu (Andy Patrizio) writes: >Secondly, what in the world do you need 128 Meg of RAM for? Even UNIX doesn't >suck up that much memory. Unix doesn't have many applications aimed at colour publishing. A typical example on the Mac involves using Adobe Photoshop to process a 300 dpi 24-bit 8" x 10" page. Total data cost = 80 x 300 x 300 x 24/8 = 21 MB [approx]. Try increasing the resolution, and you quickly run into 40-50 MB pictures. Of course, Photoshop uses virtual memory to enable users with only 8MB to process these pictures. But if you it all in memory, you can see a 5 to 6 times speedup. At that rate, it only takes you four weeks or so to start making a payback on your memory costs. >It sounds to me like a computer version of the Spruce Goose. Big, ugly, awkward > and useless. This particular machine is aimed squarely at the high-end colour publishing community. Perhaps you should ask them whether they think it's useless before passing judgement. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Evan Torrie. Stanford University, Class of 199? torrie@cs.stanford.edu "Cold is God's way of telling us to burn more Catholics" - Lady Whiteadder
dinn@ug.cs.dal.ca (Michael 'Moose' Dinn) (06/06/91)
In article <55538@nigel.ee.udel.edu> PYC136@uriacc.uri.edu (Andy Patrizio) writes: >"Dan Galpin (Amiga-quester" <galpin@ucscb.ucsc.edu> writes: > >[*** WARNING. TANGENT APPROACHING! ***] >(*** BY the way.. have you checked MacGeek (The Macintosh Weekly Magazine) :-) >lately.. People sell 50Mhz MacIIFX repackages with 128MBytes of RAM (using >16 MB simms.) Show me an Amiga that can currently be expanded to 128Megs of RAM. > >Knowing Apple products, that Mac will probably cost more than a fully- >loaded Lexus LS400, and won't be anywhere near as well built. No comment, the whole world knows it's true :-) >Secondly, what in the world do you need 128 Meg of RAM for? Even UNIX doesn't >suck up that much memory. Dunno, but I believe Dave Haynoe had an A3000 with 128M of RAM to show some bigwigs once... So it CAN be done even if it's not normally available... -- Michael Dinn, Sysop of the Moose's Swamp - Nova Scotia's largest Amiga BBS +1 (902) 463-0483, 3/12/24/48/96/14,400 baud * 290 Megabytes online Home: moose%swamp%banke1@cs.dal.ca (Amiga1000 running UUCP/BBS) School: mdinn@ac.dal.ca, dinn@ug.cs.dal.ca | These are my opinions and Work: 01Moose@dalac.bitnet IRC-Op: Moose | noone else's. (blame me :-)
stevep@wrq.com (Steve Poole) (06/06/91)
In article <55538@nigel.ee.udel.edu> Andy Patrizio <PYC136@uriacc.uri.edu> writes: >Secondly, what in the world do you need 128 Meg of RAM for? Even UNIX doesn't >suck up that much memory. > >It sounds to me like a computer version of the Spruce Goose. Big, ugly, awkward > and useless. Big? 16MB SIMMs really aren't all that large. Ugly and awkward? Huh? How can you support a progressive platform like the Amiga when you have such a braindamaged regressive view? Sounds like you wear computer bigotry blinders. Gee, just a few years ago all I needed was 16K... Ever thrown 32 bit color images around? Done four color prepress work? Used a really big and deep virtual desktop? VM won't cut it. Big disk caches? RAM drives? USELESS? -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- INTEL 80x86: Just say NOP -- Internet: stevep@wrq.com -- AOL: Spoole -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
asher@netcom.COM (Asher Feldman) (06/06/91)
PYC136@uriacc.uri.edu (Andy Patrizio) writes: >"Dan Galpin (Amiga-quester" <galpin@ucscb.ucsc.edu> writes: >[*** WARNING. TANGENT APPROACHING! ***] >(*** BY the way.. have you checked MacGeek (The Macintosh Weekly Magazine) :-) >lately.. People sell 50Mhz MacIIFX repackages with 128MBytes of RAM (using >16 MB simms.) Show me an Amiga that can currently be expanded to 128Megs of RAM. >Knowing Apple products, that Mac will probably cost more than a fully- >loaded Lexus LS400, and won't be anywhere near as well built. >Secondly, what in the world do you need 128 Meg of RAM for? Even UNIX doesn't >suck up that much memory. >It sounds to me like a computer version of the Spruce Goose. Big, ugly, awkward > and useless. >.signed, > / Andy Patrizio | Bitnet: pyc136@uriacc.bitnet \ > / University of Rhode Island | Internet: pyc136@uriacc.uri.edu \ > / | ARPA: pyc136%uriacc@brownvm.brown.edu \ > \ // Amiga... what else? | Usenet: uunet!rayssd!idsvax!andypo / > \ \\// | UUCP: andypo@idsvax.uucp / > \ \/ "What a thrilling life..." -- Precious Metal / Well, the 3000 can take 1.2gigs (?) but there aren't any 32 bit ram boards out for it. I guess if you were crazy enough you can stick in a 2000 16 bit ram board. asher@netcom.com -- /////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ | asher@netcom.com OR {apple, amdahl, claris}!netcom!asher | | /// | | /// Amiga: The only "game" machine that runs IBeM, Mac, | | \\\/// Apple II, CP/M, Atar-e St, C=64, AND Unix software. | | \XX/ The Computer For The Creative Mind! |
bard@jessica.stanford.edu (David Hopper) (06/06/91)
In article <1991Jun6.001939.28047@milton.u.washington.edu> stevep@wrq.com (Steve Poole) writes: >In article <55538@nigel.ee.udel.edu> Andy Patrizio <PYC136@uriacc.uri.edu> writes: >>Secondly, what in the world do you need 128 Meg of RAM for? Even UNIX doesn't >>suck up that much memory. >> >>It sounds to me like a computer version of the Spruce Goose. Big, ugly, awkward >> and useless. > >Big? 16MB SIMMs really aren't all that large. Ugly and awkward? Huh? > >How can you support a progressive platform like the Amiga when you have such >a braindamaged regressive view? Sounds like you wear computer bigotry >blinders. ...and this whole discussion is moot, since the 3000 can address what, some 1.8 gigabytes of autoconfigure RAM (or is it 2 gigs)? God, I can't believe no one's brought that up yet. Dave Hopper |MUYOM!/// Anthro Creep | NeXT Campus Consultant at Stanford | __ /// . . | Smackintosh/UNIX Consultant - AIR bard@jessica. | \\\/// Ia! Ia! | Independent Amiga Developer Stanford.EDU | \XX/ Shub-Niggurath! | & (Mosh) Pit Fiend from Acheron
kudla@jec313.its.rpi.edu (Robert J. Kudla) (06/06/91)
PYC136@uriacc.uri.edu (Andy Patrizio) writes: >lately.. People sell 50Mhz MacIIFX repackages with 128MBytes of RAM >(using 16 MB simms.) Show me an Amiga that can currently be expanded >to 128Megs of RAM. >Knowing Apple products, that Mac will probably cost more than a fully- >loaded Lexus LS400, and won't be anywhere near as well built. I'm sure these are just as third party as the Amiga 50MHz board(s). Let's see.... the fx sells for ~10K on average, a 16M SIMM is about 800 (A Mac friend of mine just got 32M for his fx in 4M SIMMs for 40 bucks a meg, let's assume 16M ones are more expensive) and the 50MHz board for the Amiga costs about 3 grand, right? So maybe for the fx it'll be another six grand. 10K + 6K accelerator + 7K for the RAM. 23 grand for a *way* powerful system. >Secondly, what in the world do you need 128 Meg of RAM for? Even UNIX doesn't >suck up that much memory. "What in the world would you want more than 4K for??" "Why in the world would a program need to access more than 640K continuously??" "Why should we give you more than 512K of CHIP ram?? Most users won't even have that much RAM total!" Apart from the fact that it's a stupid argument, consider this: 24-bitplane graphic manipulations. I don't know about 128M, but my friend is finding his 8M to be way too cramped and 32M will eventually be too small too. Also: full-motion video. 128M makes a hell of a good buffer to ensure realtime performance.... >It sounds to me like a computer version of the Spruce Goose. Big, >ugly, awkward and useless. Sounds more like your sour grapes to me. I bet when the first screamin' Amiga system with half a gig of RAM becomes available, you'll be the first one to drool over it.... -- Robert Jude Kudla - Any email sent me becomes my nonexclusive property. You cannot go against nature, because when you do Going 'gainst nature is part of nature too....
MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (Norman St. John Polevaulter) (06/06/91)
>"Dan Galpin (Amiga-quester" <galpin@ucscb.ucsc.edu> writes: > >[*** WARNING. TANGENT APPROACHING! ***] >(*** BY the way.. have you checked MacGeek (The Macintosh Weekly Magazine) :-) >lately.. People sell 50Mhz MacIIFX repackages with 128MBytes of RAM (using >16 MB simms.) Show me an Amiga that can currently be expanded to 128Megs of . >RAM The Amiga 3000 can be expanded to 2 Gigs (that's 2000 Megs) of RAM. Next question. [Your blood pressure just went up.] //-Mark Sachs, aka mbs110@psuvm.psu.edu --//----- Remember the 1980's? ----// // DISCLAIMER: It's NOT MY FAULT! /AMIGA When things were so // //-Kei and Yuri forced me to say it. --\X/------- uncomplicated... - ELO --//
dant@ryptyde.UUCP (Daniel Tracy) (06/06/91)
Responding to the following: "lately.. People sell 50Mhz MacIIFX repackages with 128MBytes of RAM (using 16 MB simms.) Show me an Amiga that can currently be expanded to 128Megs of RAM. Knowing Apple products, that Mac will probably cost more than a fully- loaded Lexus LS400, and won't be anywhere near as well built. Secondly, what in the world do you need 128 Meg of RAM for? Even UNIX doesn't suck up that much memory. It sounds to me like a computer version of the Spruce Goose. Big, ugly, awkward and useless." Unix doesn't suck up that much memory? True, but at least it supports that and a heck of a lot more. If the Unix-makers had thought like you do, it wouldn't really be a useful OS for mainframe use. Besides, the above is obviously not directly an Apple product, so I don't really understand your "Knowing Apple products" reasoning. And you don't NEED to buy any kind of specialized equipment like the above. The IIfx supports 128MB right out of the box, just buy the SIMMs.
dant@ryptyde.UUCP (Daniel Tracy) (06/06/91)
Responding to the following: "...and this whole discussion is moot, since the 3000 can address what, some 1.8 gigabytes of autoconfigure RAM (or is it 2 gigs)?" Note, however, that this is not a point against the Mac IIfx. The "128MB limit" mentioned is just a limit on the density of presently available RAM times the number of SIMM slots on the machine (8 * 16 = 128MB). How many SIMM slots does the 3000 have?
galpin@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Dan Galpin (Amiga-quester)) (06/06/91)
In article <91157.001511MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (Norman St. John Polevaulter) writes: >>"Dan Galpin (Amiga-quester" <galpin@ucscb.ucsc.edu> writes: >>[Tangent Deleted] >The Amiga 3000 can be expanded to 2 Gigs (that's 2000 Megs) of RAM. >Next question. > And it also can have 32 bit graphics cards. I don't see them yet. I vaguely remember Dave Haynie talking about a realistic max of 64 MBytes/Zorro III slot. And there is the Super-fast RAM CPU slot. This mythical board does not exist. The only one I have heard of is the prototype done by Dave.. Until a product comes out (and I am sure that it will..) all the A3000 owners are pretty much limited to 18 Megs. (Is it possible to put a ZORRO II (**slow**) card in and get another 8 megs?) >[Your blood pressure just went up.] >//-Mark Sachs, aka mbs110@psuvm.psu.edu --//----- Remember the 1980's? ----// >// DISCLAIMER: It's NOT MY FAULT! /AMIGA When things were so // >//-Kei and Yuri forced me to say it. --\X/------- uncomplicated... - ELO --// -- ****************************************************************************** * Amiga // * Short (TM) Signature * DISCLAIMER: * * \\ // * galpin@UCSCB.UCSC.EDU * This space reserved for a * * \X/ Only* COMP. QUOTE: Only time will tell* clever disclaimer someday. * ******************************************************************************
awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) (06/06/91)
In article <91157.001511MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (Norman St. John Polevaulter) writes: >The Amiga 3000 can be expanded to 2 Gigs (that's 2000 Megs) of RAM. >Next question. Really? Tell me how it is done.
reeses@milton.u.washington.edu (KGB Assassinate CIA NSA FBI secret George Bush Child Pornography Military Heroin Terrorism) (06/07/91)
In article <50099@ut-emx.uucp> awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) writes: >In article <91157.001511MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (Norman St. John Polevaulter) writes: > >>The Amiga 3000 can be expanded to 2 Gigs (that's 2000 Megs) of RAM. >>Next question. > >Really? Tell me how it is done. Yes, please do. Just because it can linearly access vast sums of memory(and I think you are overestimating the number the Amiga can access by about 800 megs) does not mean that it is physically possible. My i386 machine can access 4 gigs, but I don't think there is any way in hell I can fit it all in my box, especially with current technology. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- reeses@milton.u.washington.edu University of Washington, Seattle "Reality is a cop-out for people who can't handle drugs"
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (06/07/91)
>"Dan Galpin (Amiga-quester" <galpin@ucscb.ucsc.edu> writes: > >[*** WARNING. TANGENT APPROACHING! ***] >(*** BY the way.. have you checked MacGeek (The Macintosh Weekly Magazine) :-) >lately.. People sell 50Mhz MacIIFX repackages with 128MBytes of RAM (using >16 MB simms.) Show me an Amiga that can currently be expanded to 128Megs of RAM >. > >Knowing Apple products, that Mac will probably cost more than a fully- >loaded Lexus LS400, and won't be anywhere near as well built. > >Secondly, what in the world do you need 128 Meg of RAM for? Even UNIX doesn't >suck up that much memory. > >It sounds to me like a computer version of the Spruce Goose. Big, ugly, awkward > > and useless. > >.signed, > > / Andy Patrizio | Bitnet: pyc136@uriacc.bitnet \ > / University of Rhode Island | Internet: pyc136@uriacc.uri.edu \ > / | ARPA: pyc136%uriacc@brownvm.brown.edu \ > \ // Amiga... what else? | Usenet: uunet!rayssd!idsvax!andypo / > \ \\// | UUCP: andypo@idsvax.uucp / > \ \/ "What a thrilling life..." -- Precious Metal / Ok, I will. The Amiga 3000 is capable of adressing over a gigabyte of ram.. Forgot the specific limit.. You just provide the chips, and the space. Anyone know what the limit is? 1.78G I think is the limit, it rings a bell. SeX PiSToLs, pizza, and my Amiga 2000 workstation.. Arctangent, Naperville Illinoize.
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (06/07/91)
In article <16719@darkstar.ucsc.edu> galpin@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Dan Galpin (Amiga-quester)) writes: >In article <91157.001511MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (Norman St. John Polevaulter) writes: >>>"Dan Galpin (Amiga-quester" <galpin@ucscb.ucsc.edu> writes: >>>[Tangent Deleted] >>The Amiga 3000 can be expanded to 2 Gigs (that's 2000 Megs) of RAM. >>Next question. >And it also can have 32 bit graphics cards. I don't see them yet. I vaguely >remember Dave Haynie talking about a realistic max of 64 MBytes/Zorro III slot. And there is the Super-fast RAM CPU slot. OK. The A3000 has a few chunks of memory space reserved for expansion. The Coprocessor slot can support up to 128MB of something (presumably memory) at full 68030 speeds. Practically speaking, a Coprocessor slot card has enough room on it to get 128MB, but not with a 68040 there too. Chances are, this slot get used for processor upgrades. The Zorro III bus has 1.75 GB ($10000000-$7fffffff) reserved for it in the A3000 memory map. The autoconfiguration mechanism support units as large as 1GB each (you can have one of these). In any case, using 4MBit ZIP DRAMs, you can realistically fit 64MB on a board. If you went to 16MBit DRAMs, like used on those 16MB Mac SIMMs, you could fit 256MB per card. Those chips do in fact exist, though they're considerably more expensive per MB than 4MBit parts. >This mythical board does not exist. The only one I have heard of is the >prototype done by Dave.. Actually, an example board. For last year's Atlanta DevCon, I did an example 32 MB board. I certainly could have made it 64MB, but I wanted to keep the design simple enough to act as a viable learning tool. Anyone could of course clone this design and build a 32 or 64 MB board of their own, but that's not the same thing as being able to run down to the bank, mortgage your house, run to the computer store, and buy a couple hundred megabytes. >Until a product comes out (and I am sure that it will..) all the A3000 owners >are pretty much limited to 18 Megs. >(Is it possible to put a ZORRO II (**slow**) card in and get another 8 megs?) Yeah, you can add another 8 MB of 16 bit RAM, and yeah, it will be slow. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "This is my mistake. Let me make it good." -R.E.M.
torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) (06/07/91)
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >Coprocessor slot can support up to 128MB of something (presumably memory) at >full 68030 speeds. Practically speaking, a Coprocessor slot card has enough >room on it to get 128MB, but not with a 68040 there too. Chances are, this >slot get used for processor upgrades. How much physical space is there inside a 3000 for the coprocessor card? Does it sit upright or lie on its side? Just curious because the Radius Rocket (a Mac II form-factor NuBus card) manages to fit 8 SIMM sockets [enough for 128MB of RAM], a 68040, and all the graphics acceleration hardware on a single board. >The Zorro III bus has 1.75 GB ($10000000-$7fffffff) reserved for it in the >A3000 memory map. The autoconfiguration mechanism support units as large as >1GB each (you can have one of these). In any case, using 4MBit ZIP DRAMs, you >can realistically fit 64MB on a board. If you went to 16MBit DRAMs, like used >on those 16MB Mac SIMMs, you could fit 256MB per card. Those chips do in >fact exist, though they're considerably more expensive per MB than 4MBit parts. Definitely true. A 16MB SIMM for the Mac which uses 16MBit DRAMs retails for $7000. A 16MB SIMM using 32 x 4MBit DRAMs costs just $2200. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Evan Torrie. Stanford University, Class of 199? torrie@cs.stanford.edu "Lay me place and bake me pie, I'm starving for me gravy... Leave my shoes and door unlocked, I might just slip away - hey - just for the day."
dingebre@imp.es.com (David Ingebretsen) (06/07/91)
In article <1991Jun6.173708.18346@milton.u.washington.edu>, reeses@milton.u.washington.edu (KGB Assassinate CIA NSA FBI secret George Bush Child Pornography Military Heroin Terrorism) writes: > In article <50099@ut-emx.uucp> awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) writes: > >In article <91157.001511MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (Norman St. John Polevaulter) writes: > > > >>The Amiga 3000 can be expanded to 2 Gigs (that's 2000 Megs) of RAM. > >>Next question. > > > >Really? Tell me how it is done. > > Yes, please do. Just because it can linearly access vast sums of memory(and > I think you are overestimating the number the Amiga can access by about 800 > megs) does not mean that it is physically possible. My i386 machine can > access 4 gigs, but I don't think there is any way in hell I can fit it all > in my box, especially with current technology. > > > > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > reeses@milton.u.washington.edu University of Washington, Seattle > "Reality is a cop-out for people who can't handle drugs" This really sounds like the classic "Mine's bigger than yours" locker room argument. Someone go get a ruler and the contestants drop trou'. David
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (06/07/91)
In article <16719@darkstar.ucsc.edu> galpin@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Dan Galpin (Amiga-quester)) writes: > >Until a product comes out (and I am sure that it will..) all the A3000 owners >are pretty much limited to 18 Megs. >(Is it possible to put a ZORRO II (**slow**) card in and get another 8 megs?) Yes it is. So, with 8 MB boards easily available (A2058 from C=), you have at least the chance to equip your A3000 with 18+3*8=42 MB RAM today. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
reeses@milton.u.washington.edu (KGB Assassinate CIA NSA FBI secret George Bush Child Pornography Military Heroin Terrorism) (06/07/91)
In article <1991Jun7.064107.15465@javelin.sim.es.com> your favorite flame burner writes: >In article <1991Jun6.173708.18346@milton.u.washington.edu>, reeses@milton.u.washington.edu (KGB Assassinate CIA NSA FBI secret George Bush Child Pornography Military Heroin Terrorism) writes: >> In article <50099@ut-emx.uucp> awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) writes: >> >In article <91157.001511MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (Norman St. John Polevaulter) writes: >> > >> >>The Amiga 3000 can be expanded to 2 Gigs (that's 2000 Megs) of RAM. >> >>Next question. >> >Really? Tell me how it is done. >> Yes, please do. Just because it can linearly access vast sums of memory(and >> I think you are overestimating the number the Amiga can access by about 800 >> megs) does not mean that it is physically possible. My i386 machine can >> access 4 gigs, but I don't think there is any way in hell I can fit it all >> in my box, especially with current technology. >This really sounds like the classic "Mine's bigger than yours" locker room >argument. Someone go get a ruler and the contestants drop trou'. > >David Geez, I had assumed that anyone intelligent enough to find news would be intelligent enough to figure out what I was saying. I was merely providing an analogy in the PC world(as that is my frame of reference(I enjoy Amigas, I do not read this newsgroup for flaming.), not a foundation for flame. My machine, as can all i386 machines(and of course i486, if you're picking nits) are capable of addressing 4 gigabytes of RAM...with 16Meg SIMMs, there is absolutely no way to fit that much RAM in MY box. I've seen, and played with, a 3000. It's smaller than my box(whoops, I better provide measurements), which leads me to believe it has less internal storage capacity. Hence, is not capable of containing 1.2 gigs of RAM, at least with current technology, meaning 16 meg SIMMs...'k dave? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- reeses@milton.u.washington.edu University of Washington, Seattle "Reality is a cop-out for people who can't handle drugs"
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (06/07/91)
In article <1991Jun7.044953.3848@neon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes: >daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: > A 16MB SIMM using 32 x 4MBit DRAMs costs just $2200. I forgot the Mac IIfx had a larger, custom SIMM module. I don't think the standard SIMMs will easily support 32 DRAMs, 'lessin you make them extra tall. Not that any Amiga board with a 32MB-128MB is going to be a bargain, either. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "This is my mistake. Let me make it good." -R.E.M.
dusek@motcid.UUCP (James P. Dusek) (06/07/91)
torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes: >PYC136@uriacc.uri.edu (Andy Patrizio) writes: >>Secondly, what in the world do you need 128 Meg of RAM for? Even UNIX doesn't >>suck up that much memory. Just think of all the really neat games you could play :) After all a game designer would just love to have all the memory to play with. And just think, you could have a REALLY big ram disk,like 100megs.:) -J.Dusek-
hychejw@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff W. Hyche) (06/07/91)
reeses@milton.u.washington.edu (KGB Assassinate CIA NSA FBI secret George Bush Child Pornography Military Heroin Terrorism) writes: >are capable of addressing 4 gigabytes of RAM...with 16Meg SIMMs, there is >absolutely no way to fit that much RAM in MY box. I've seen, and played with, >a 3000. It's smaller than my box(whoops, I better provide measurements), >which leads me to believe it has less internal storage capacity. Hence, is >not capable of containing 1.2 gigs of RAM, at least with current technology, >meaning 16 meg SIMMs...'k dave? BullShit!!! The memory board on my system here at work has 128 meg on a board in a area takeing up less than space than standard A3000 card would using zips. -- // Jeff Hyche There can be only one! \\ // Usenet: hychejw@infonode.ingr.com \X/ Freenet: ap255@po.CWRU.Edu
peck@sol.ral.rpi.edu (Joseph Peck) (06/08/91)
In article <1315@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >In article <16719@darkstar.ucsc.edu> galpin@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Dan Galpin (Amiga-quester)) writes: >> >>Until a product comes out (and I am sure that it will..) all the A3000 owners >>are pretty much limited to 18 Megs. >>(Is it possible to put a ZORRO II (**slow**) card in and get another 8 megs?) > >Yes it is. So, with 8 MB boards easily available (A2058 from C=), you >have at least the chance to equip your A3000 with 18+3*8=42 MB RAM today. Ummm, isn't the Zorro II space still limited to only 1 block of 8megs? Unless the 3000 is doing something funny like bank switching (ugh!), it seems like you should still be limited to 18+8=26 megs of ram. This does lead to another idea: A small adapter card (Zorro III) that autoconfigures in the 1.75 meg range and allows you to plug in a Zorro II card. The original Zorro II address lines get passed straight through to the old card, while the adaptor monitors the upper lines. The adaptor dictates whether or not the board is enabled. Some work would have to be done to allow this "double autoconfiguration", but the logic shouldn't be terrible. This would allow multiple Zorro II cards with large configuration requirements to coexist. Hmmmm, need 5 24 bit frame buffers? 5 8meg 16bit memory boards? No problem... (Oh yeah, 5 boards for the 3000T, 3 for the 3000) Hey, look at that! A real suggestion in .advocacy! What is the net coming to.... :) >Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Joe Peck peck@ral.rpi.edu
reeses@milton.u.washington.edu (KGB Assassinate CIA NSA FBI secret George Bush Child Pornography Military Heroin Terrorism) (06/08/91)
In article <1991Jun7.152214.12649@infonode.ingr.com> hychejw@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff W. Hyche) writes: >reeses@milton.u.washington.edu (KGB Assassinate CIA NSA FBI secret George Bush Child Pornography Military Heroin Terrorism) writes: >>are capable of addressing 4 gigabytes of RAM...with 16Meg SIMMs, there is >>absolutely no way to fit that much RAM in MY box. I've seen, and played wit >>a 3000. It's smaller than my box(whoops, I better provide measurements), >>which leads me to believe it has less internal storage capacity. Hence, is >>not capable of containing 1.2 gigs of RAM, at least with current technology, >>meaning 16 meg SIMMs...'k dave? > BullShit!!! The memory board on my system here at work has 128 >meg on a board in a area takeing up less than space than standard A3000 >card would using zips. good, so you only need 10 of them to get your 1.2 gigs, eh? How many slots does the 3000 have?(not the tower, guy) 3? hmm.... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- reeses@milton.u.washington.edu University of Washington, Seattle "Reality is a cop-out for people who can't handle drugs"
hychejw@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff W. Hyche) (06/08/91)
reeses@milton.u.washington.edu (KGB Assassinate CIA NSA FBI secret George Bush Child Pornography Military Heroin Terrorism) writes: >good, so you only need 10 of them to get your 1.2 gigs, eh? How many slots >does the 3000 have?(not the tower, guy) 3? hmm.... The Amiga 3000 has four slots not including the CPU slot. I take it you know much about the A3000. With the current chip density you can get the 1.2 gig you want but you will not have room for anything else. It can be done trust me. -- // Jeff Hyche There can be only one! \\ // Usenet: hychejw@infonode.ingr.com \X/ Freenet: ap255@po.CWRU.Edu
billsey@agora.UUCP (Bill Seymour) (06/08/91)
In article <1991Jun6.001939.28047@milton.u.washington.edu>, Steve Poole writes: > In article <55538@nigel.ee.udel.edu> Andy Patrizio <PYC136@uriacc.uri.edu> writes: >>Secondly, what in the world do you need 128 Meg of RAM for? Even UNIX doesn't >>suck up that much memory. >> >>It sounds to me like a computer version of the Spruce Goose. Big, ugly, awkward >> and useless. > > Big? 16MB SIMMs really aren't all that large. Ugly and awkward? Huh? Actually, since 16Mbit chips are still only available in sample quantities, a 16MB SIMM is going to be quite large. It'll require a full 32 4Mbit chips to be installed on it. Even with TSOPs and putting chips on both sides of the board, you're taking up double the room of most SIMM modules. My guess is they do this in a 32 bit wide package, and the SIMMs are double the normal height. Mount it all into an angled socket, and you will probably have to leave a inch or so between sockets. But it should fit that way. > How can you support a progressive platform like the Amiga when you have such > a braindamaged regressive view? Sounds like you wear computer bigotry > blinders. > > Gee, just a few years ago all I needed was 16K... > > Ever thrown 32 bit color images around? Done four color prepress work? > Used a really big and deep virtual desktop? VM won't cut it. Big disk > caches? RAM drives? USELESS? > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- INTEL 80x86: Just say NOP -- Internet: stevep@wrq.com -- AOL: Spoole -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I actually agree that there's always room for more memory... I remember when I bought my 1000 and had to think twice before deciding to buy the extra 256K. After all, how would I ever use that much memory? Even figuring it was 16 bits wide instead of 8 like my 64, I shouldn't even need more than 256K... Now I feel constrained by the 9M in my 2000, and tend to do most things on the 3000, at least partially because of the extra memory... -Bill Seymour nesbbx!billsey@agora.uucp or nesbbx!billsey@agora.rain.com ***** American People/Link Amiga Zone Hardware Specialist NES*BILL ***** Bejed, Inc. NES, Inc. NAG BBS NES BBX BBS Home Sometimes (503)281-8153 (503)246-9311 (503)656-7393 (503)640-9337 (503) 640-0842
vinsci@nic.funet.fi (Leonard Norrgard) (06/08/91)
In article <55538@nigel.ee.udel.edu> PYC136@uriacc.uri.edu (Andy Patrizio) writes:
[*** WARNING. TANGENT APPROACHING! ***]
(*** BY the way.. have you checked MacGeek (The Macintosh Weekly Magazine) :-)
lately.. People sell 50Mhz MacIIFX repackages with 128MBytes of RAM (using
16 MB simms.) Show me an Amiga that can currently be expanded to 128Megs of RAM.
X-Pert computer services in Germany sells the MEM64 card, which is a
64 Mb nibble-mode ram expansion card for the A3000. You want 128Mb?
Plug in two cards. Need more? Fill all your expansion slots. Get an
A3000Tower and fill *its* slots and you're all set...
The standard configuration is 8Mb, expandable to 64Mb. The same
company also have the Visiona graphics card, a 24 bit thing they call
"highresolution art-card" as well as the Timehopper external cache
board for A3000 (goes into the cpu slot) providing from 32Kb to 128Kb
cache-ram. On the time-hopper you can also plug in a 60Mhz 68882, so
your math/raytracing/radiosity stuff should run reasonably fast.
/ Andy Patrizio | Bitnet: pyc136@uriacc.bitnet \
Enjoy,
-- Leonardcaw@miroc.Chi.IL.US (Christopher A. Wichura) (06/08/91)
In article <22231@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: > >OK. The A3000 has a few chunks of memory space reserved for expansion. The >Coprocessor slot can support up to 128MB of something (presumably memory) at >full 68030 speeds. Practically speaking, a Coprocessor slot card has enough >room on it to get 128MB, but not with a 68040 there too. Chances are, this >slot get used for processor upgrades. When you say you're not likely to get 128 meg and an 040 onthe same card, what kind of chips are you thinking of? 4M or 16M? Granted, the 16M ones would cost more than one would care to admit (your comment about mortgaging the house was quite humorous), but it would be way-cool to have an 040 with it's own super-fast ram. Also, how much room would you feel would be left over to external caches? >can realistically fit 64MB on a board. If you went to 16MBit DRAMs, like used >on those 16MB Mac SIMMs, you could fit 256MB per card. Those chips do in A 256MB card would be a real dream. I tend to live in RAM: for most of my work and temp files, and a board like that... (now to win a lottery so I could afford to pay for half of it) >Yeah, you can add another 8 MB of 16 bit RAM, and yeah, it will be slow. It should be pointed out that you can only do this one, though, as the Zorro II autoconfig space is still limited the same way it is on an A2000. And if you want a bridgeboard then you can only add another 6. Seriously, though, due to speed I wouldn't consider this an option. If one could tell RAM: which board to allocate from, then maybe, but otherwise, no. -=> CAW Christopher A. Wichura Multitasking. Just DO it. caw@miroc.chi.il.us (my amiga) ...the Amiga way... u12401@uicvm.uic.edu (school account)
jet@spinoza.math.uh.edu (J Eric Townsend) (06/09/91)
In article <VINSCI.91Jun8013459@nic.nic.funet.fi> vinsci@nic.funet.fi (Leonard Norrgard) writes: >X-Pert computer services in Germany sells the MEM64 card, which is a >64 Mb nibble-mode ram expansion card for the A3000. You want 128Mb? [stuff about more neat toys deleted] How about posting some contact info for this company? thanks. -- J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2126 Skate UNIX! (curb fault: skater dumped) -- If you're hacking PowerGloves and Amigas, drop me a line. --
mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) (06/09/91)
In article <6558@iron13.UUCP> dusek@motcid.UUCP (James P. Dusek) writes: >torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes: > >>PYC136@uriacc.uri.edu (Andy Patrizio) writes: > >>>Secondly, what in the world do you need 128 Meg of RAM for? Even UNIX doesn't >>>suck up that much memory. > > Just think of all the really neat games you could play :) After all >a game designer would just love to have all the memory to play with. And >just think, you could have a REALLY big ram disk,like 100megs.:) > > -J.Dusek- A game designer/programmer's point of view: 128Megs gives you about 17 seconds worth of animation using HAM-E 640x400x4 bitplanes uncompressed. 128Megs lets you do 24 bit lookup tables for speed that some applications might really benefit from. 128Megs gives you 13 minutes of CD quality stereo audio In retrospect, the VIC 20 had 8K of RAM, the C64 64K of RAM, the PC 640K of RAM, and the A3000 can easily have 6.4Megs of RAM. 64 Megs of RAM and then 640 Megs would follow this same progression. Today's applications (like X-Windows) were unfathomable just a few years ago. Tomorrow's applcations are likely to support, require, and benefit from huge amounts of RAM. -- **************************************************** * I want games that look like Shadow of the Beast * * but play like Leisure Suit Larry. * ****************************************************
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (06/11/91)
In article <1315@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >In article <16719@darkstar.ucsc.edu> galpin@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Dan Galpin (Amiga-quester)) writes: >>Until a product comes out (and I am sure that it will..) all the A3000 owners >>are pretty much limited to 18 Megs. >>(Is it possible to put a ZORRO II (**slow**) card in and get another 8 megs?) >Yes it is. So, with 8 MB boards easily available (A2058 from C=), you >have at least the chance to equip your A3000 with 18+3*8=42 MB RAM today. Uh, not quite. Zorro II is still limited to the 24 bit address space it was originally defined for. So you can have only one 8MB Zorro II board in an A3000 (well, you can put the others in, but they'll just get shut up). -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "This is my mistake. Let me make it good." -R.E.M.
billsey@agora.UUCP (Bill Seymour) (06/11/91)
In article <1315@cbmger.UUCP>, Peter Kittel GERMANY writes: > In article <16719@darkstar.ucsc.edu> galpin@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Dan Galpin (Amiga-quester)) writes: >> >>Until a product comes out (and I am sure that it will..) all the A3000 owners >>are pretty much limited to 18 Megs. >>(Is it possible to put a ZORRO II (**slow**) card in and get another 8 megs?) > > Yes it is. So, with 8 MB boards easily available (A2058 from C=), you > have at least the chance to equip your A3000 with 18+3*8=42 MB RAM today. Woops! Not quite that much... :-) You can only autoconfig a max of eight megs of zorro II memory on a 3000, not 3*8. So make that 2+16+8=26M. And *slow* is the word here... Even slower than chip ram accesses on a 3000. (Of course, I have eight megs pluuged into *my* 3000 that way, better *slow* than *none*. :-) > Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... > Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk -Bill Seymour nesbbx!billsey@agora.uucp or nesbbx!billsey@agora.rain.com ***** American People/Link Amiga Zone Hardware Specialist NES*BILL ***** Bejed, Inc. NES, Inc. NAG BBS NES BBX BBS Home Sometimes (503)281-8153 (503)246-9311 (503)656-7393 (503)640-9337 (503) 640-0842
bpv9073@sjfc.UUCP (Brett VanSprewenburg) (06/13/91)
In article <1991Jun6.173708.18346@milton.u.washington.edu> reeses@milton.u.washington.edu (KGB Assassinate CIA NSA FBI secret George Bush Child Pornography Military Heroin Terrorism) writes: >In article <50099@ut-emx.uucp> awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) writes: >>In article <91157.001511MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (Norman St. John Polevaulter) writes: >> >>>The Amiga 3000 can be expanded to 2 Gigs (that's 2000 Megs) of RAM. >>>Next question. >> >>Really? Tell me how it is done. > >Yes, please do. Just because it can linearly access vast sums of memory(and >I think you are overestimating the number the Amiga can access by about 800 >megs) does not mean that it is physically possible. My i386 machine can >access 4 gigs, but I don't think there is any way in hell I can fit it all >in my box, especially with current technology. Well that's just too bad for your IB*, isn't it? Since you so snottily asked, the Amiga 3000 can address up to 1.7 gig of memory. I do believe that there are 16 zip memory sockets in an A3000. With 1 X 4 chips that's a healthy 18 meg (with 2 meg chip ram). With the just emerging 4 meg chips that would make 64 meg. A very respectable amount. As I understand it, those chips are becoming current technology. Who's to say that memory boards utilizing those same chips won't be available soon, say put in a couple of 64 meg memory boards...(I'm not saying these will be available just that it's possible. The 3000 can use multiple A2000 memory boards, for comparison sake...) Now, when memory chip density increases to the point when say 8 or even an astounding 16 meg chips are around, the 3000 will be able to take advantage of this with the sockets already on the motherboard. Perhaps a better point then just arguing how MUCH memory your respective machines can have, but just how WELL the available memery is used. I mean any old Amiga program recognizes and utilizes as much friggin' RAM as you can throw at it. In the IB* camp, things are a bit different, as I understand it. As for the Mac, for the most part, large amounts of memory in use is not much of a problem. Just sometimes. (Maybe in the sense that you absoluting MUST have a fairly large amount of RAM ( => 2 meg ) to do really useful things with the latest software and OS. Again, this is how I understand things.) As if you didn't know this was coming: But none of the above is really true for the Amiga. Respectful replies will be given consideration, flames will be laughed at. ==Brett
markl@sadss (Mark Larner) (06/13/91)
dusek@motcid.UUCP (James P. Dusek) writes: > Just think of all the really neat games you could play :) After all > a game designer would just love to have all the memory to play with. And > just think, you could have a REALLY big ram disk,like 100megs.:) > A game designer may love it. But how will they supply the games on a hard disk?? Mark. ____________________________________________________________________________ | | | | | EMAIL: | ADDRESS: | | | ukc!sadss!markl | DSS, Moorlands Road, Lytham St Annes, | PHONE: | | ukc!cix!iltd | Lancs, England. | +44 253 797322 | |__________________|_______________________________________|_________________|
lmbailey@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Laurana Bailey) (06/15/91)
Just as a comment: As to how one would get 1.7Gigs on an A3000 it is true that it isn't possible with the current set of boards and chips available, but one should keep in mind that not too long ago Commodore showed a proto-type 32 Meg RAM board for the A3000. They DID say that there were no plans to bring it to market, but that doesn't mean some off the wall third party company (like GVP who are always bringing out amazing hardware products) won't develop the same. Let's see.....18 Megs on the motherboard plus 32 Megs on a card times 4 possible slots = 146 Megs of RAM. Not quite 1.7 Gigs, but it's a start. What would I do with 146 Megs of RAM? I dunno, but I'd have a lot of fun finding out. ;-) Laurana -- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ |Just another lemming... | Yet another Amiga maniac set loose | | | on the world...and you thought things| |lmbailey@vela.acs.oakland.edu | couldn't get any worse. |
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (06/16/91)
In article <owXg41w163w@sadss> markl@sadss (Mark Larner) writes: > A game designer may love it. But how will they supply the games on a > hard disk?? CDTV -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>. 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?"