xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (06/16/91)
sutela@polaris.utu.fi (Kari Sutela) writes: > xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >> Before going public, why not chat in the Amiga >> groups for a bit about doing something about >> c.s.a.programmer, which is still _much_ too big. >> Does any clever soul see a reasonably clean >> partitioning of the current traffic? > This is not reasonable, I'll say! ;-) > but how about: > comp.sys.amiga.programmer.applications > Discussions about programmer related applications: > editors, compilers etc. Questions like: "Which > C-compiler/assembler is the best?" should go here. > Reports of bugs found in compilers should be > posted here, too (preferably, they should be sent > to the technical support people of the product). > Perhaps discussion on technical documentation > (like the RKMs) could go on here. Let's try c.s.a.p.tools, c.s.a.docs; might as well break it into digestable bits. > comp.sys.amiga.programmer.programming > Real programming related discussion goes on here. > Things like: "How do I do X?" etc. A terrible > group name, though. c.s.a.p.methods, or c.s.a.p.assist, perhaps? > comp.sys.amiga.programmer.asm > Assembly related programming. There currently > seems to be quite a lot of people who would read > this group. Those of us (me, for example) who > don't know a LEA from a CMP could unsubscribe to > it without regrets. Well, if we go language oriented, we need to cope with C, Modula-2, Fortran, Lisp/Scheme/Xlisp, Draco, AmigaBASIC, AREXX, and probably several other popular Amiga languages that don't come to mind immediately. I don't terribly much mind doing this for assembly, which seems to be a bit of a special case, but the other less popular languages would work better as mailing lists, like the current fairly low traffic but high value m2 mailing list. In fact, I'd like to see proponents of the Lisp family, Draco users, and Fortran users get mailing lists set up and the mail servers posted with the comp.sys.amiga.introduction FAQ and the big list published for all of Usenet as well. Any users of those languages with capability to put up a mail server, drop me a line and I'll put you in touch with the m2 list maintainer. It might be fun to have a c.s.a.p.langs and a one way echo from the mail lists to the group so those who care to could follow the traffic, but it would stay sorted out for the list users. AmigaBASIC is a bit of a puzzle; it is worthless for the A3000 due to "yet another Microsoft programming design blunder(tm)", but there is a lot of code around and probably lots of people still using it, though the traffic about it is minor; for now, say a mailing list if anyone cares to, and toss it in with the other low use languages. Ditto ABASIC, only more so. AREXX is another special case, and probably deserves a group of its own, too. > And my favourite: > comp.sys.amiga.programmer.I.don't.know.where.to.p- > ost.so.I'll.post.here.dammit I like it, I like it; the special characters might be a bit of a problem, but ... > Questions like: "Is there a program which does > X?", "Program X does Y, I want it to do Z. > HELP!!!!", "Program X gurues. HELP!!!". A group > for people who think that if a question concerns a > program, it is related to programming. The c.s.a.introduction group is supposed to do this; it needs to get used more. Start redirecting the posters of this kind of questions there (in EMAIL, for Klortho's sake!) > Nah, it would never work. The current size of > c.s.a.programmer is a bit too much for me, though. > Perhaps I should begin applying KILL files to this > group, too. That also works, but you miss a lot that casually mentions what your are trying to avoid in a posting you'd really like to read. I find making an anti-KILL file works better; put in all the folks you like to follow, mark their stuff saved for later, kill all the rest, and then yank the marked stuff forward to read. If you use trn (or perhaps nn), you can read progenitor articles even if you've killed them if the answers look interesting. Of course, per Kant's Categorical Imperative, it's worth noting that this fails miserably if everyone does it. Well, the lack of response almost made me give up on this whole concept of another reorganization, but my two weeks of cat sitting that's kept me off the net a lot is up tomorrow, and you've started things off, so I'll try a little harder. I'd still like to talk about this stuff in c.s.a.advocacy, but I am reminded most of the readership avoids that group like the plague, so let's crosspost to .misc and .programmer a bit until we get chased out, to try to draw a crowd. In my never ending quest to keep the c.s.a.* hierarchy flat, looking back over this, how about these for a starting set of names to pick apart? c.s.a.prog-advice (or prog-methods) c.s.a.prog-asm c.s.a.prog-arexx (or just let comp.lang.rexx carry the amiga stuff, too) c.s.a.prog-langs (and/or prog-misc) c.s.a.prog-docs c.s.a.prog-system (and/or prog-scripts) (or c.s.a.system, Dan's proposal, though I like to think of this as programming too) c.s.a.prog-tools That gives seven to nine groups, about the right number of chunks to make the current traffic bearable; are those groups such that some people would not at all read some of them (the goal of a split, of course), or does that just subdivide without removing the need to follow all subgroups, a fairly worthless exercise? I'd even add a c.s.a.prog-intro, if necessary. While I'm doing this, let's pull the idea of chopping up c.s.a.hardware back into the fire and the crosspost list, too. Last time, I proposed a .design, .standard, .3rd-party, and .hackers subdivision; this gets uglier, 'cause "hardware" doesn't have a pretty abbreviation, but how about these as flat subdivision names? c.s.a.hdwr-design c.s.a.hdwr-standard (or hdwr-stock) c.s.a.hdwr-3rd-party (whew, just made 14 characters) c.s.a.hdwr-hacking Again, vanilla questions about connecting a disk driver and hard disk and drive software together belong in c.s.a.introduction, not .hardware or its proposed replacements, but it will take some firm guidance (in EMAIL) to make that happen. What have I missed here or done wrong, or are the solder freaks happy with things as is despite the volume? Any stuff still left in c.s.a.misc that constitutes enough traffic to deserve a home of its own, and isn't just missing its proper group now? Besides comp.sys.amiga.paging.dave.haynie.help.help.help, I mean? [Sorry, Dave, couldn't resist.] /// It's Amiga /// for me: why Kent, the man from xanth. \\\/// settle for <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> \XX/ anything less? -- Convener, COMPLETED comp.sys.amiga grand reorganization. Here we go again.
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (06/18/91)
sutela@polaris.utu.fi (Kari Sutela) wrote: > comp.sys.amiga.programmer.asm > Assembly related programming. There currently > seems to be quite a lot of people who would read > this group. Those of us (me, for example) who > don't know a LEA from a CMP could unsubscribe to > it without regrets. xanthian@zorch.sf-bay.org (Kent Paul Dolan) wrote: > Well, if we go language oriented, we need to cope > with C, Modula-2, Fortran, Lisp/Scheme/Xlisp, > Draco, AmigaBASIC, AREXX, and probably several > other popular Amiga languages that don't come to > mind immediately. I left out C++; imminent brain death detected. mwm@pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) wrote: > How about > comp.sys.amiga.programmer.{asm,arexx,c,misc}? That > covers the big three, and leaves a place for > everything else. I would have included m2, but you > said that the mail list isn't very active, and I > don't know how it compares to the various basics. Only real problem I have with "by language" split is that you'd probably divide the traffic 10-5-80-5, and 80% of comp.sys.amiga.programmer is still too damn big. I'm still looking for a good breakdown; I don't much like mine, or any I've seen yet either; on the other hand, I like some of the stuff proposed for .hardware quite a bit. I need more help for ways to filter off stuff for .misc that is big enough to constitute a separate focus of traffic, but isn't just misplaced for a group that already exists. I'd be happy with even a four way split for c.s.a.programmer, but only if the smallest part of the split was 20% or more; anyone have any ideas or willing to do a subject analysis? What I'd _really_ like is a set of "get this stuff out of my face" proposals like the c.s.a.p.asm one Kari gave above, for substantial chunks of traffic folks would rather not read. While it's on my mind, is there any support for trying to move alt.sys.amiga.uucp{,patches} into the mainstream hierarchy, or is the alt distribution sufficient for such a narrow focus? After being scolded twice in email, I'll concede that c.s.a.prog-* and c.s.a.hdwr-* are ugly enough names that c.s.a.programm{er,ing}.* and c.s.a.hardware.* should be the choices, and I'll concede defeat on trying to keep c.s.a.* a flat hierarchy. Also, Peter da Silva would like to pull the Amiga futures discussion out of .advocacy, where it drowns in 90% or so flames; I'm willing to do it iff the group is moderated; otherwise the flames will just follow the discussion. Peter says two kids and work overload keep him unavailable; any volunteers to moderate c.s.a.futures if we make one? Mike, if you're back from Usenix, do you still want a group of your own? Another fairly coherent proposal received in email [heavily edited and mildly commented:] Darren Ewaniuk <ewaniu@ee.ualberta.ca> wrote: [about my hardware split:] > In my opinion (I'm an EE specializing in hardware > design) these splits aren't logical at all. > c.s.a.h.design is about the only logical split > from this, and there is low traffic on this. And > imagine the strain that poor Dave Haynie would be > under, as he'd practically be running this group! > c.s.a.problems would remove the need for your > 3rd-party and standard groups. > About the best split here would be to split off > the problems section (My brand x HD controller > won't work with rev y.y motherboard with brand z > memory board. What can I do?) into c.s.a.problems > or c.s.a.h.problems (although I prefer > c.s.a.problems) Actually, I like this a lot; a split into comp.sys.amiga.hardware.{misc,problems} would probably be close to 50-50, and might be "good enough" folks seeking (or willing to offer) help could be one place, folks just chatting about hardware issues in the other, and this may well provide two groups that can mostly ignore one another. > In short, my proposals are: > New groups: > comp.sys.amiga.problems - catch all for hardware and otherwise > -or- generic software problems. > comp.sys.amiga.hardware.problems - If you only want hardware problems. I much prefer the second; see below. > comp.sys.amiga.system - Good idea for kickstart/WB/system > discussion. > Split from comp.sys.amiga.programmer: > comp.sys.amiga.programmer.c - C specific discussion. > comp.sys.amiga.programmer.asm - Assembly specific discussion. > comp.sys.amiga.programmer.problems - Programming problems with system > routines or other languages. This strongly suggests c.s.a.hardware.problems, just to keep it from getting filled with "miscellaneous" problems by folks who don't notice the c.s.a.programmer.problems group. > Keep comp.sys.amiga.hardware and > comp.sys.amiga.programmer intact. Sort of; they'll both end up with .misc tags for reasons of net neatness. > These will still be the 'catch all' type of > groups, but will have their volume cut a bit by > splitting off some identifiable traffic into > comp.sys.amiga.problems, > comp.sys.amiga.programmer.problems, > comp.sys.amiga.programmer.c, and > comp.sys.amiga.programmer.asm. I'm still worried about the size of the .c portion, but let's hear what other people think. > [permission granted to summarize and post if any > of these make sense] Enough to be worth presenting publically. Any input on what to do with C++? Quite a bit of traffic now, likely to grow fast, as it is a popular language, and we finally have an up-to-date implementation available. /// It's Amiga /// for me: why Kent, the man from xanth. \\\/// settle for <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> \XX/ anything less? -- Convener, COMPLETED comp.sys.amiga grand reorganization.
barrett@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Dan Barrett) (06/18/91)
In article <1991Jun18.092655.12436@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >and 80% of comp.sys.amiga.programmer is still too damn big. Personally, I find the number of postings to be just fine. How big is "too big"? 3 posts a day? 30? 300? If you must break up .programmer, how about: c.s.a.programmer.novice For beginner questions c.s.a.programmer.wizards For really in depth stuff c.s.a.programmer.misc For everything else >any volunteers to moderate c.s.a.futures if we make one? I didn't like this name back before the reorganization, and I still don't like it. What's it mean? "Futures" makes me think of "pork futures" or some such money-related stuff. If people want to talk about Commodore's future, how about comp.sys.amiga.speculation, or even comp.sys.amiga.thefuture? c.s.a.hardware.problems does sound really good, though. Dan //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ | Dan Barrett, Department of Computer Science Johns Hopkins University | | INTERNET: barrett@cs.jhu.edu | | | COMPUSERVE: >internet:barrett@cs.jhu.edu | UUCP: barrett@jhunix.UUCP | \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////
jpc@fct.unl.pt (Jose Pina Coelho) (06/19/91)
In article <8737@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU> barrett@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Dan Barrett) writes: If you must break up .programmer, how about: c.s.a.programmer.novice For beginner questions c.s.a.programmer.wizards For really in depth stuff c.s.a.programmer.misc For everything else Won't work. Every novice thinks the problem he just stump into is meant for a wizard, so csap.wizards will be full and the other two will have residual traffic. Better divide things by language (C, ASM, REXX, MISC) or HW/SWspecifics (Diskette, HardDisk, Video, Mouse, Keyboard, Sound, AmigaDOS, Hack) -- Jose Pedro T. Pina Coelho | BITNET/Internet: jpc@fct.unl.pt Rua Jau N 1, 2 Dto | UUCP: ...!mcsun!unl!jpc 1300 Lisboa, PORTUGAL | Home phone: (+351) (1) 640767 Sex is not the answer. Sex is the question. "Yes" is the answer.
barrett@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Dan Barrett) (06/19/91)
>I wrote: > If you must break up .programmer, how about: > c.s.a.programmer.novice For beginner questions > c.s.a.programmer.wizards For really in depth stuff > c.s.a.programmer.misc For everything else In article <JPC.91Jun18184110@terra.fct.unl.pt> jpc@fct.unl.pt (Jose Pina Coelho) writes: >Won't work. >Every novice thinks the problem he just stump into is meant for a >wizard, so csap.wizards will be full and the other two will have >residual traffic. It seems to work in the comp.unix hierarchy: comp.unix.wizards comp.unix.questions That's where I go the idea. Dan //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ | Dan Barrett, Department of Computer Science Johns Hopkins University | | INTERNET: barrett@cs.jhu.edu | | | COMPUSERVE: >internet:barrett@cs.jhu.edu | UUCP: barrett@jhunix.UUCP | \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////
rjc@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (06/19/91)
I vote we split up c.s.a.advocacy.
c.s.a.advocacy.mb-futures
To be moderated by MB for posts like:
"Let's face it, the Amiga will NEVER have a 32-bit clipboard
because Commodore marketing has a secret illuminati conspiracy
to oppress clipboard lovers everywhere."
c.s.a.advocacy.blazemonger.blazemonger.blazemonger
Dicusss the newest blazemonger release.
c.s.a.advocacy.mac-vs-amiga
"Anything less than 640x480 B&W is TOTALLY inadequate. No,
anything less than 1024x768x8bit is totally inadequate. No,.."
c.s.a.advocacy.next-vs-amiga
"Look, once you add a $10,000 NeXT Dimension card RSN, the NeXT
totally beats the Amiga's blitter "
c.s.a.advocacy.cray-vs-amiga
"The Amiga will never suceed since the A500 obviously cannot
compare to the Cray-III or the CM2"
c.s.a.advocacy.marketing
"Commodore marketing sucks"
c.s.a.advocacy.japan-vs-commodore
"" "" .cdtv-vs-cdi-vs-cbtv
"Commodore is doomed, the multi-jillion dollar Japanese corperations
have discovered the games market, now not a single Amiga will ever be
sold."
"It is a scientific fact that HAM is not sufficient to display
digitized images. Laboratory tests on animals prove that humans cannot
recognize images unless they are 1024x1024x24 bit."
c.s.a.advocacy.assembly-vs-all-other-languages-are-inadequate
"You don't understand, you see, if you take over the machine, you
can use absolute short addressing mode and get a %.008 speedup
increase, and compiled languages obviously cannot produce hello_world
programs as small as assembly thereby making them inferior."
c.s.a.advocacy.source
"Just because developers have source code to the OS doesn't mean
they will rely on side-effects of functions. Just because developers
in the past relied on the side-effect of the chipbase being in a5 coming
from an int-handler, or relied on a1 not being trashed, doesn't mean
they will still do it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot."
and don't forget comp.sys.amiga.programmer.algol
--
/ INET:rjc@gnu.ai.mit.edu * // The opinions expressed here do not \
| INET:r_cromwe@upr2.clu.net | \X/ in any way reflect the views of my self.|
\ UUCP:uunet!tnc!m0023 * /peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (06/19/91)
In article <8737@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU> barrett@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Dan Barrett) writes: > c.s.a.programmer.novice For beginner questions > c.s.a.programmer.wizards For really in depth stuff Wizards sounds too unixy. Gurus would be better. How about .programmer.tech? (ducks to avoid thrown tomatoes). > If people want to talk about Commodore's future, how about > comp.sys.amiga.speculation, or even comp.sys.amiga.thefuture? Not about commodore's future, but more specifically about possible enhancements to the Amiga (and maybe even to brainstorm projects). How about: comp.sys.amiga.developments comp.sys.amiga.ideas comp.sys.amiga.brainstorming comp.sys.amiga.bluesky -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>. 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (06/19/91)
Jose Pina Coelho: > csap.wizards will be full and the other two will have > residual traffic. Dan Barrett: > It seems to work in the comp.unix hierarchy: Actually, the big problem is that it doesn't. > comp.unix.wizards > comp.unix.questions Yep, and comp.unix.wizards is just full of novice questions. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>. 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (06/19/91)
In article <1991Jun18.224232.8686@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> rjc@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: > I vote we split up c.s.a.advocacy. > c.s.a.advocacy.mb-futures > c.s.a.advocacy.blazemonger.blazemonger.blazemonger > c.s.a.advocacy.mac-vs-amiga > c.s.a.advocacy.next-vs-amiga > c.s.a.advocacy.cray-vs-amiga You forgot: c.s.a.next-versus-mac c.s.a.next-versus-pc c.s.a.mac-versus-pc For all of the spinoff discussions... -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>. 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David C. Navas) (06/19/91)
In article <1991Jun18.224232.8686@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> rjc@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: > c.s.a.advocacy.marketing >"Commodore marketing sucks" I don't get it, we need a group to *discuss* this? Anybody actually disagree with this one? Why stop there? c.s.a.advocacy.management "Commodore management sucks" c.s.a.advocacy.policy "Commodore policy 'X' sucks" See, gets real tedious. Becomes a way to flaunt ones thesaurus capabilities, as in: "The backward, blunt, deficient, dense, dim-witted, dull, dumb, feeble-minded, idiotic, moronic, obtuse, retarded, simple[-minded], slow, stupid, thick, uneducated, unintelligent, demi-human-like creatures who pass themselves off as 'management' in Commodore have succeeded only in implementing foolish, futile policies and engaging in ill-advised, pointless, profitless and vain ventures." Or, perhaps, exercises in artsy flaming: "Pausing to contemplate tonight's sunset, I was struck in the way that nature often duplicates the inner soul of man -- for just then the thought struck me that the brilliant red streaks running across the sky were patterned after many a fanciful fantasy of bludgeoning the brains of the management and associated marketroids of Commodore. Such fantasies find no recourse in truth, for no modern instrument has yet detected the two shared neurons responsible for their illustrious, if not infamous, failed procedures." Or, maybe, Enquirer-type posts: "The fewer than half a dozen neurons shared by all Commodore upper management were found floating nude engaged in oral intercourse with remains of Natalie Wood. See insert on page 12 along with conclusive evidence of woman's six inch baby Elvis." "Elvis seen posing as chief Cmdre marketroid." Geez, man, maybe management would come here and discuss their innermost fantasies: "We pay our CEO more than you do." "Our stock routinely triples in value." Or their innermost thoughts: "" Hmm.... Maybe we could set up a mailing list. Tell you what, you send me your best degrading statement, and I'll publish a book entitled either "Truth in Corporate Management", or "Three Thousand Degrading but True Things About Your BOSS". Maybe I'll market it twice under both. Sounds like a real win. > c.s.a.advocacy.japan-vs-commodore > "" "" .cdtv-vs-cdi-vs-cbtv No way, mon. CBTV rules. [Strangely, I feel much better now. ;) ] David Navas navas@cory.berkeley.edu 2.0 :: "You can't have your cake and eat it too." Also try c186br@holden, c260-ay@ara and c184-ap@torus
barrett@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Dan Barrett) (06/19/91)
In article <1991Jun18.235656.23130@sugar.hackercorp.com> peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes: >In article <8737@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU> barrett@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Dan Barrett) writes: >> c.s.a.programmer.novice For beginner questions >> c.s.a.programmer.wizards For really in depth stuff > >Wizards sounds too unixy. Gurus would be better. A-ha! You fell into the same trap that I did at first. :-) It's important to remember that "guru" has a special connotation when Amigas are being discussed.... Ah, I can see it now: :Article 487 of comp.sys.amiga.programmer.gurus :From: klotch@brap.feem.pu.edu :Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer.gurus :Subject: re: Help! :References: <1991Jun18.092655.12436@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <8737@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU> <1991Jun18.235656.23130@sugar.hackercorp.com> :Organization: Philadelphia Zoo : :In article <928398129387192837>, foo@bar writes: :>00000002.4F000023? : : 0000000A.11AE5946! :-) Dan //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ | Dan Barrett, Department of Computer Science Johns Hopkins University | | INTERNET: barrett@cs.jhu.edu | | | COMPUSERVE: >internet:barrett@cs.jhu.edu | UUCP: barrett@jhunix.UUCP | \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////
caw@miroc.Chi.IL.US (Christopher A. Wichura) (06/19/91)
In article <1991Jun18.092655.12436@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >mwm@pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) wrote: > >> How about >> comp.sys.amiga.programmer.{asm,arexx,c,misc}? That >> covers the big three, and leaves a place for >> everything else. I would have included m2, but you >> said that the mail list isn't very active, and I >> don't know how it compares to the various basics. > >Only real problem I have with "by language" split is >that you'd probably divide the traffic 10-5-80-5, >and 80% of comp.sys.amiga.programmer is still too >damn big. > >I'm still looking for a good breakdown; I don't much >like mine, or any I've seen yet either; on the other >hand, I like some of the stuff proposed for .hardware >quite a bit. I need more help for ways to filter off >stuff for .misc that is big enough to constitute a >separate focus of traffic, but isn't just misplaced >for a group that already exists. > >I'd be happy with even a four way split for >c.s.a.programmer, but only if the smallest part of >the split was 20% or more; anyone have any ideas or >willing to do a subject analysis? What I'd _really_ >like is a set of "get this stuff out of my face" >proposals like the c.s.a.p.asm one Kari gave above, >for substantial chunks of traffic folks would rather >not read. What about breaking things down in terms of c.s.a.p.theorythis, c.s.a.p.theorythat, etc. Now what theorythis and theorythat really are is something to decide. It seems to me that c.s.a.p gets quite a few "HELP me this code doesn't work" as well as several long discussions about the proper way this or that should be implemented, etc. >While it's on my mind, is there any support for >trying to move alt.sys.amiga.uucp{,patches} into the >mainstream hierarchy, or is the alt distribution >sufficient for such a narrow focus? If a general reorginization is going to occur then I'd like to see the uucp groups moved under c.s.a. The main reason being that the distribution would probably be better than the current alt groups. After all, doesn't Matt maintain a mailing list that passes messages to alt.sys.amiga.uucp* on to those whose sites don't get the alt groups? I guess a question is how many people are actually on that list... >Also, Peter da Silva would like to pull the Amiga >futures discussion out of .advocacy, where it drowns >in 90% or so flames; I'm willing to do it iff the >group is moderated; otherwise the flames will just >follow the discussion. Peter says two kids and work I, too, think that c.s.a.futures would be a good idea. And I do realize the problem with flames. However, for a group that could potentially have a fair number of messages, how much of a slowdown would having a moderator be? >> comp.sys.amiga.problems - catch all for hardware and otherwise >> -or- generic software problems. >> comp.sys.amiga.hardware.problems - If you only want hardware problems. While my initial reaction was to just have c.s.a.problems, thinking about it a bit it seems to me that one really should have this split up. After all, in misc and apps one tends to find quite a few software problems croping up. Thus, keeping them split would be helpful, at least to the knowledgeable folk who might be able to answer the hardware problems and not the software ones. Now, the question is, where does one put the problems group for software? Or do we create c.s.a.problems.{hardware|software|programming|???}? The latter is something I don't particularily care for, myself. -=> CAW Christopher A. Wichura Multitasking. Just DO it. caw@miroc.chi.il.us (my amiga) ...the Amiga way... u12401@uicvm.uic.edu (school account)
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (06/19/91)
barrett@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Dan Barrett) writes: > jpc@fct.unl.pt (Jose Pina Coelho) writes: >> barrett@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Dan Barrett) writes: >>> If you must break up .programmer, how about: >>> c.s.a.programmer.novice For beginner questions >>> c.s.a.programmer.wizards For really in depth stuff >>> c.s.a.programmer.misc For everything else >> Won't work. >> Every novice thinks the problem he just stump >> into is meant for a wizard, so csap.wizards will >> be full and the other two will have residual >> traffic. > It seems to work in the comp.unix hierarchy: > comp.unix.wizards > comp.unix.questions > That's where I go the idea. Wow did you miss out on a _great_ flamewar in news.groups! Comp.unix.wizards is the best newbie magnet on the net, and functions just as Jose suggests. It got replaced by comp.unix.internals, to try to cure the problem, and it became obvious that it also had been attracting another class of poster, the poseur unix wizard who needed an audience too ignorant to catch his gaffes. The poseurs screamed for their stage back, ran a really bogus vote, and got it. It went right back to being rife with newbie questions and bogus/trivial answers. Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us>
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (06/23/91)
caw@miroc.Chi.IL.US (Christopher A. Wichura) writes: > While my initial reaction was to just have > c.s.a.problems, thinking about it a bit it seems > to me that one really should have this split up. > After all, in misc and apps one tends to find > quite a few software problems croping up. Thus, > keeping them split would be helpful, at least to > the knowledgeable folk who might be able to answer > the hardware problems and not the software ones. > Now, the question is, where does one put the > problems group for software? Or do we create > c.s.a.problems.{hardware|software|programming|???- > }? The latter is something I don't particularily > care for, myself. Well, problems with _using_ (store bought or hand around) software should be in c.s.a.introduction or c.s.a.applications; the problems with _writing_ software belong in c.s.a.programming.problems, and the problems with hardware belong in c.s.a.hardware.problems, IMHO. Like you, I don't think a c.s.a.problems.* subhierarchy is the way to go. /// It's Amiga /// for me: why Kent, the man from xanth. \\\/// settle for <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> \XX/ anything less? -- Convener, COMPLETED comp.sys.amiga grand reorganization. Here we go again.
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (06/23/91)
caw@miroc.Chi.IL.US (Christopher A. Wichura) writes: > I, too, think that c.s.a.futures would be a good > idea. And I do realize the problem with flames. > However, for a group that could potentially have a > fair number of messages, how much of a slowdown > would having a moderator be? Probably not as bad as the current slowdown to counter offensive flamers that sidetracks the discussion on a frequent basis. There's really not much use pulling the material out of .advocacy if the quality of the discussion can't be raised a _lot_, and moderation looks like the way to go. Other comments on this issue? /// It's Amiga /// for me: why Kent, the man from xanth. \\\/// settle for <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> \XX/ anything less? -- Convener, COMPLETED comp.sys.amiga grand reorganization. Here we go again.
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) (06/24/91)
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: > > caw@miroc.Chi.IL.US (Christopher A. Wichura) writes: > >> I, too, think that c.s.a.futures would be a good >> idea. And I do realize the problem with flames. >> However, for a group that could potentially have a >> fair number of messages, how much of a slowdown >> would having a moderator be? > >Probably not as bad as the current slowdown to >counter offensive flamers that sidetracks the >discussion on a frequent basis. There's really not >much use pulling the material out of .advocacy if >the quality of the discussion can't be raised a >_lot_, and moderation looks like the way to go. > >Other comments on this issue? Alot of Amiga UUCP and newsreaders do not understand how to easily post to an moderated newsgroup. They are not as bright as CNews is, so you'll be getting alot of "confused" people that only carry comp.sys.amiga#? that are new to the net(last 6 months) and will not have software capable of mailing a post to the moderator automatically...Plus on a BBS, imagine the end user, not knowing he has to MAIL to moderator, but instead posts or followups with the confused software, and the item never make it anywhere...PostNews in AmigaUUCP just doesn't understand moderated groups...So you'll get more messages from -MB- and less from others... Do followups have to go through a moderator?? Poor guy... -- C-UseNet V0.42e Ronald Kushner Life in Hell BBS +1 (313) 939-6666 P.O. Box 353 14400 USR HST V.42 & V.42bis Sterling Heights, MI 48311-0353 Complete Amiga Support UUCP: uunet!umich!vela!sycom!rkushner (We are not satanic, just NUTS!) No blood for oil! Raising C.A.F.E. to 40MPG is just that!
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (06/25/91)
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) writes: > xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >> caw@miroc.Chi.IL.US (Christopher A. Wichura) writes: >>> I, too, think that c.s.a.futures would be a good >>> idea. And I do realize the problem with flames. >>> However, for a group that could potentially have >>> a fair number of messages, how much of a >>> slowdown would having a moderator be? >> Probably not as bad as the current slowdown to >> counter offensive flamers that sidetracks the >> discussion on a frequent basis. There's really >> not much use pulling the material out of >> .advocacy if the quality of the discussion can't >> be raised a _lot_, and moderation looks like the >> way to go. >> Other comments on this issue? > A lot of Amiga UUCP and newsreaders do not > understand how to easily post to an moderated > newsgroup. They are not as bright as CNews is, so > you'll be getting a lot of "confused" people that > only carry comp.sys.amiga#? that are new to the > net (last 6 months) and will not have software > capable of mailing a post to the moderator > automatically...Plus on a BBS, imagine the end > user, not knowing he has to MAIL to moderator, but > instead posts or followups with the confused > software, and the item never make it > anywhere...PostNews in AmigaUUCP just doesn't > understand moderated groups Well, things aren't quite that bad; if you post to the group, it gets intercepted (by your site or one downstream) and mailed to the moderator automatically. The arguments you put forth are arguments against _any_ moderated groups, and in fact moderated groups work quite well on the net, despite the wide variety of posting software and posters' skills, so while it may be a problem for the individual poster to climb the learning curve, moderation is not a problem for the net overall. > So you'll get more messages from -MB- and less > from others... I hope not; one of the jobs of a moderator is to _refuse_ to post off track garbage of the typical -MB- generic sort. > Do followups have to go through a moderator?? Poor > guy... Well, yes, since tossing out inappropriate followups is the gist of the job. And yes, you won't see me volunteering for the job -- I lose my temper too easily -- but there are lots of folks who do it for the glory or just the chance to be of service. I had twice as many moderator volunteers as I had groups to moderate, last go around, so there are folks out there who don't mind doing the work in exchange for a better functioning newsgroup, in an area where they have a special interest. Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us>