logan@netxcom.netx.com (Jim Logan) (06/22/91)
In article <1991Jun10.232402.23590@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> l-rittle@uiuc.edu (Loren J. Rittle) writes:
# --
# ``NewTek stated that the Toaster *would* *not* be made to directly support
# the Mac, at this point Sculley stormed out of the booth...'' --- A scene at
# the recent MacExpo. Gee, you wouldn't think that an Apple Exec would be so
# worried about one little Amiga device... Loren J. Rittle l-rittle@uiuc.edu
I read in Byte this morning that the Toaster will soon be sold to run
with a Mac.
--
Jim Logan HOME: logan@gimlet.cntv.va.us WORK: logan@netx.com
Consultant uunet!gimlet!logan uunet!netxcom!logan
NetExpress, Inc. (703) 222-3217 (703) 749-2269rjc@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (06/22/91)
In article <463@netxcom.netx.com> logan@netxcom.netx.com (Jim Logan) writes: >In article <1991Jun10.232402.23590@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> l-rittle@uiuc.edu (Loren J. Rittle) writes: ># -- ># ``NewTek stated that the Toaster *would* *not* be made to directly support ># the Mac, at this point Sculley stormed out of the booth...'' --- A scene at ># the recent MacExpo. Gee, you wouldn't think that an Apple Exec would be so ># worried about one little Amiga device... Loren J. Rittle l-rittle@uiuc.edu > >I read in Byte this morning that the Toaster will soon be sold to run >with a Mac. Yes, it will run on a Mac, provided you purchase a $1500 dongle for it. (the dongle is an Amiga.) NewTek is making the Toaster into a standalone unit, but this unit will contain an Amiga in it. So in reality, the Toaster isn't running on the Mac, it's running on the Amiga using the Mac as nothing but an input device. >-- >Jim Logan HOME: logan@gimlet.cntv.va.us WORK: logan@netx.com >Consultant uunet!gimlet!logan uunet!netxcom!logan >NetExpress, Inc. (703) 222-3217 (703) 749-2269 -- / INET:rjc@gnu.ai.mit.edu * // The opinions expressed here do not \ | INET:r_cromwe@upr2.clu.net | \X/ in any way reflect the views of my self.| \ UUCP:uunet!tnc!m0023 * /
gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) (06/22/91)
From article <463@netxcom.netx.com>, by logan@netxcom.netx.com (Jim Logan): > I read in Byte this morning that the Toaster will soon be sold to run > with a Mac. It sure will. :) It's a standalone toaster. They take an Amiga 2000, add 5 megs of ram, drop in the Toaster, remove all the labels, and replace them with labels that say "Video Toaster". Greg -- Socrates: "I drank WHAT????" LMFAP: "Next time you see me, it won't be me." Wubba: "A dream is nothing more than a wish dipped in chocolate and sprinkled with a little imagination." (From my poem, "A Dream") -Wubba
mmoore@ux.acs.umn.edu (Malcolm Diallo Moore) (06/23/91)
In article <13298@uwm.edu$ gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:
$From article <463@netxcom.netx.com>, by logan@netxcom.netx.com (Jim Logan):
$
$> I read in Byte this morning that the Toaster will soon be sold to run
$> with a Mac.
$
$It sure will. :) It's a standalone toaster. They take an Amiga
$2000, add 5 megs of ram, drop in the Toaster, remove all the labels,
$and replace them with labels that say "Video Toaster".
$
$Greg
$
$--
$Socrates: "I drank WHAT????"
$LMFAP: "Next time you see me, it won't be me."
$Wubba: "A dream is nothing more than a wish dipped in chocolate and sprinkled
$with a little imagination." (From my poem, "A Dream") -Wubba
But what I wanna know is:
Is Commodore gettin any radio play out of all this?
OR
Are we getting jacked....again?
**********************Malcolm "The Capital MD" Moore**************************
* CHICAGO BULLS * Microcomputer & Workstation * *
* -- * Networks Center * "How can you be too *
* NBA * would have to PAY me * old and too *
* CHAMPZ! * to express any kind of an * Caucasian..." *
* * opinion in their behalf. * -anon *
* Yall DESERVED IT! * * *
***************************mmoore@ux.acs.umn.edu******************************jsibley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James Sibley) (06/23/91)
In article <4185@ux.acs.umn.edu> mmoore@ux.acs.umn.edu (Malcolm Diallo Moore) writes: >In article <13298@uwm.edu$ gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes: >$From article <463@netxcom.netx.com>, by logan@netxcom.netx.com (Jim Logan): >$ >$> I read in Byte this morning that the Toaster will soon be sold to run >$> with a Mac. >$ >$It sure will. :) It's a standalone toaster. They take an Amiga >$2000, add 5 megs of ram, drop in the Toaster, remove all the labels, >$and replace them with labels that say "Video Toaster". >$ >$Greg >$ >$-- >$Socrates: "I drank WHAT????" >But what I wanna know is: > >Is Commodore gettin any radio play out of all this? > >OR > >Are we getting jacked....again? > I think we're getting jacked again (as you so quaintly put it..) By not putting the Commodore name on the box, how will Commodore benefit from this deal (besides more 2000's being cranked out..) I mean when someone sees one of these boxes they should know that it is an Amiga and by concealing this information Commodore stands to lose some much valued business.. People may actually start to believe that NewTek made a Mac version (that just happens to look alot like an Amiga 2000..) Well, I think it was a bad move but that's just my opinion.. (Boy do I hate that word..) -- James Sibley Nous Sommes Du Soleil Seeking the truth about lemon curry. We Are Of The Sun jsibley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu We Can See Amiga: What computers were meant to be. -YES-
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (06/23/91)
>> I read in Byte this morning that the Toaster will soon be sold to run >> with a Mac. > > It sure will. :) It's a standalone toaster. They take an Amiga > 2000, add 5 megs of ram, drop in the Toaster, remove all the labels, > and replace them with labels that say "Video Toaster". I just got my BYTE, and while it talks about the standalone version version based on the A2000, it ends with this sentence: "A company spokesperson said that Newtek is talking with Apple about making the Video Toaster available as a Mac accessory." That could mean sticking an Apple label on the A2000 case, but I doubt it. More likely, Newtek would create a true Mac version... mostly because if they don't, someone else surely will. - kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) (06/23/91)
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >>> I read in Byte this morning that the Toaster will soon be sold to run >>> with a Mac. >> >> It sure will. :) It's a standalone toaster. They take an Amiga >> 2000, add 5 megs of ram, drop in the Toaster, remove all the labels, >> and replace them with labels that say "Video Toaster". > >I just got my BYTE, and while it talks about the standalone version >version based on the A2000, it ends with this sentence: > > "A company spokesperson said that Newtek is talking with Apple > about making the Video Toaster available as a Mac accessory." > >That could mean sticking an Apple label on the A2000 case, but I doubt it. >More likely, Newtek would create a true Mac version... mostly because >if they don't, someone else surely will. - kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> I feel stupid for saying this, but once the original is released for any platform, it seems everything else is playing catchup, because others look at the bottom line of what company X made, and said, if I can make 1/2 of X I will make Y...Once someone starts something moving, it will attract other money hungry people to the same platform...Thank god thats the way the world works...Who needs Newtek if they abandon the machine, someone else will pick up where they left off.. -- C-UseNet V0.42e Ronald Kushner Life in Hell BBS +1 (313) 939-6666 P.O. Box 353 14400 USR HST V.42 & V.42bis Sterling Heights, MI 48311-0353 Complete Amiga Support UUCP: uunet!umich!vela!sycom!rkushner (We are not satanic, just NUTS!) No blood for oil! Raising C.A.F.E. to 40MPG is just that!
metahawk@aix01.aix.rpi.edu (Wayne G Rigby) (06/23/91)
In article <1991Jun23.012633.2618@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: > >I just got my BYTE, and while it talks about the standalone version >version based on the A2000, it ends with this sentence: > > "A company spokesperson said that Newtek is talking with Apple > about making the Video Toaster available as a Mac accessory." > >That could mean sticking an Apple label on the A2000 case, but I doubt it. >More likely, Newtek would create a true Mac version... mostly because >if they don't, someone else surely will. - kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> Someone already has. It's much more expensive (~ $10,000 I think) and, over all, less capable (though it does have some nice features). I forget the company's name, but, in any case, it just can't compete with the VT. "Hello? Is anybody in there? Wayne Rigby Just nod if you can hear me." Computer and Systems Engineer (in training) - Pink Floyd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute metahawk@rpi.edu
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (06/23/91)
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) writes: >kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >> [BYTE mag writes:] >> "A company spokesperson said that Newtek is talking with Apple >> about making the Video Toaster available as a Mac accessory." >> >Who needs Newtek if they abandon the machine, someone else will pick >up where they left off.. Gee, can you say "fickle"? Sure you can :-) Newtek puts the Amiga on the map and so is a hero for a while... but then if they do like any good business would, and think about additional markets, why all of a sudden they're "not needed". You may be right, but good grief! - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> #!
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (06/23/91)
metahawk@aix01.aix.rpi.edu (Wayne G Rigby) writes: >In article <1991Jun23.012633.2618@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >>That could mean sticking an Apple label on the A2000 case, but I doubt it. >>More likely, Newtek would create a true Mac version... mostly because >>if they don't, someone else surely will. - kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> > >Someone already has. It's much more expensive (~ $10,000 I think) and, >over all, less capable (though it does have some nice features). I forget >the company's name, but, in any case, it just can't compete with the VT. Hello? Is anybody in there? :-) :-) The obvious meaning was that someone would create a similarly priced unit. grins - kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> >"Hello? Is anybody in there? Wayne Rigby > Just nod if you can hear me." Computer and Systems Engineer (in training) > - Pink Floyd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (06/23/91)
In article <1991Jun23.012633.2618@ncsu.edu>, kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >>> I read in Byte this morning that the Toaster will soon be sold to run >>> with a Mac. >> >> It sure will. :) It's a standalone toaster. They take an Amiga >> 2000, add 5 megs of ram, drop in the Toaster, remove all the labels, >> and replace them with labels that say "Video Toaster". > >I just got my BYTE, and while it talks about the standalone version >version based on the A2000, it ends with this sentence: > > "A company spokesperson said that Newtek is talking with Apple > about making the Video Toaster available as a Mac accessory." > >That could mean sticking an Apple label on the A2000 case, but I doubt it. >More likely, Newtek would create a true Mac version... mostly because >if they don't, someone else surely will. - kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> I don't think that is even possible. The Video Toaster is so heavily tied up with the Amiga's old chipset, that even getting it to work with the ECS is proving difficult. Making it work on a MAC would require a total redesign, from the ground up. ------------------------------------------------------------- / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / / ISU COM S Student | Internet: XGR39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU / ------------------------------------------------------------ \ The great thing about standards is that / \ there are so many of them to choose from. / -------------------------------------------------------
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) (06/24/91)
jsibley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James Sibley) writes: >In article <4185@ux.acs.umn.edu> mmoore@ux.acs.umn.edu (Malcolm Diallo Moore) >>In article <13298@uwm.edu$ gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes: >>$From article <463@netxcom.netx.com>, by logan@netxcom.netx.com (Jim Logan): >>$ >>$> I read in Byte this morning that the Toaster will soon be sold to run >>$> with a Mac. >>$ >>$It sure will. :) It's a standalone toaster. They take an Amiga >>$2000, add 5 megs of ram, drop in the Toaster, remove all the labels, >>$and replace them with labels that say "Video Toaster". >>$ >>$Greg >>$ >>$-- >>$Socrates: "I drank WHAT????" > >>But what I wanna know is: >> >>Is Commodore gettin any radio play out of all this? >> >>OR >> >>Are we getting jacked....again? >> > > I think we're getting jacked again (as you so quaintly put it..) By not >putting the Commodore name on the box, how will Commodore benefit from this >deal (besides more 2000's being cranked out..) I mean when someone sees one >of these boxes they should know that it is an Amiga and by concealing this >information Commodore stands to lose some much valued business.. People may >actually start to believe that NewTek made a Mac version (that just happens >to look alot like an Amiga 2000..) Well, I think it was a bad move but that's >just my opinion.. (Boy do I hate that word..) And Sears sold the Atari 2600 as an TeleGames... Most people knew they were both the same system, and anyone into video who knows what an Amiga 2000 looks like from maybe an AD in the video magazines or personal experience will say "It looks like they took an A2000 and put a toaster in it and sell it for the Mac with some special software for $6000"...then this guy tells someone, and then that guy tells someone, and sooner or later everyone knows its an Amiga in there...and the people who use the Mac version will look really dumb.. -- C-UseNet V0.42e Ronald Kushner Life in Hell BBS +1 (313) 939-6666 P.O. Box 353 14400 USR HST V.42 & V.42bis Sterling Heights, MI 48311-0353 Complete Amiga Support UUCP: uunet!umich!vela!sycom!rkushner (We are not satanic, just NUTS!) No blood for oil! Raising C.A.F.E. to 40MPG is just that!
jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J Eric Townsend) (06/24/91)
In article <1991Jun23.093407.16225@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >Gee, can you say "fickle"? Sure you can :-) Newtek puts the Amiga >on the map and so is a hero for a while... but then if they do like >any good business would, and think about additional markets, why all >of a sudden they're "not needed". I think part of the problem we Amigaoids are having is that after years of loyal Amiga support from a fine company like NewTek, they suddenly decide that the name "Amiga" hurts their business. Hell, IBM's name was joke in workstation markets until the RS/6000 came out. Uh, never mind. :-) (Actually, I love the RS/6000 hardware, it's AIX 3.1.pay-to-beta-test-AIX that I usually whine about. :-) -- J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2126 Skate UNIX! (curb fault: skater dumped) PowerGlove mailing list: glove-list-request@karazm.math.uh.edu
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) (06/24/91)
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) writes: >>kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >>> [BYTE mag writes:] >>> "A company spokesperson said that Newtek is talking with Apple >>> about making the Video Toaster available as a Mac accessory." >>> >>Who needs Newtek if they abandon the machine, someone else will pick >>up where they left off.. > >Gee, can you say "fickle"? Sure you can :-) Newtek puts the Amiga >on the map and so is a hero for a while... but then if they do like >any good business would, and think about additional markets, why all >of a sudden they're "not needed". > >You may be right, but good grief! - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> Well, if the ABANDON the market, like I said, someone else will come in... I don't see them giving up on a market that they spend the last 5 years building...They would really be stupid, if they did.... -- C-UseNet V0.42e Ronald Kushner Life in Hell BBS +1 (313) 939-6666 P.O. Box 353 14400 USR HST V.42 & V.42bis Sterling Heights, MI 48311-0353 Complete Amiga Support UUCP: uunet!umich!vela!sycom!rkushner (We are not satanic, just NUTS!) No blood for oil! Raising C.A.F.E. to 40MPG is just that!
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (06/24/91)
jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J Eric Townsend) writes: >In article <1991Jun23.093407.16225@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >>Gee, can you say "fickle"? Sure you can :-) Newtek puts the Amiga >>on the map and so is a hero for a while... but then if they do like >>any good business would, and think about additional markets, why all >>of a sudden they're "not needed". > >I think part of the problem we Amigaoids are having is that after >years of loyal Amiga support from a fine company like NewTek, they >suddenly decide that the name "Amiga" hurts their business. Nah, I doubt they see it that way at all. If I were Newtek, for example, I'd simply be thinking "Hey more profit if we don't have to buy the A2K part" and/or that a Mac card instead of a big box might sell better. Heck, most people don't even know what an "Amiga" is... so how could it hurt (or help) Newtek's business? :-() kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (06/24/91)
In article <1991Jun24.042937.25714@menudo.uh.edu>, jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J Eric Townsend) writes: >In article <1991Jun23.093407.16225@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >>Gee, can you say "fickle"? Sure you can :-) Newtek puts the Amiga >>on the map and so is a hero for a while... but then if they do like >>any good business would, and think about additional markets, why all >>of a sudden they're "not needed". > >I think part of the problem we Amigaoids are having is that after >years of loyal Amiga support from a fine company like NewTek, they >suddenly decide that the name "Amiga" hurts their business. Can you prove that the name "Amiga" doesn't hurt NewTek's business? The fact is, the Amiga does have a "game machine" image in the U.S., and is not as highly respected as the Macintosh. Also consider that there are so few Amigas being used for professional purposes compared to Macintoshes, and it is quite obvious why NewTek is catering to the Macintosh. I really cannot blame NewTek. They have invested a lot in the Amiga, and Commodore has consistantly let them down. With the Macintosh:Amiga ratio being so high in the professional markets (100:1 at least), NewTek is realizing that will not have a bright future if they continue to depend exclusively on the Amiga for their sales. > >-- >J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2126 >Skate UNIX! (curb fault: skater dumped) > >PowerGlove mailing list: glove-list-request@karazm.math.uh.edu ------------------------------------------------------------- / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / / ISU COM S Student | Internet: XGR39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU / ------------------------------------------------------------ \ The great thing about standards is that / \ there are so many of them to choose from. / -------------------------------------------------------
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/24/91)
In article <1991Jun24.124029.3501@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: > > I really cannot blame NewTek. They have invested a lot in the Amiga, >and Commodore has consistantly let them down. With the Macintosh:Amiga >ratio being so high in the professional markets (100:1 at least), NewTek >is realizing that will not have a bright future if they continue to >depend exclusively on the Amiga for their sales. > What I think that you are missing is that, in the video markets in the U.S., the Amiga outsells the Mac. That market (which is where the Toaster is aimed) has no problem with Amigas. I think that their generic-2000 system is there way of selling to people who don't want to know about the Amiga, but I doubt that it is worth their effort to port to the Mac. I'd think they'd be much better off putting their efforts into improving the Toaster, as there will certainly be competition RSN. -- Ethan FF buckets of bits on the bus, FF buckets of bits. Take one down, Pass it to ground, FE buckets of bits on the bus.
gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) (06/24/91)
From article <1991Jun23.012633.2618@ncsu.edu>, by kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling): > I just got my BYTE, and while it talks about the standalone version > version based on the A2000, it ends with this sentence: > > "A company spokesperson said that Newtek is talking with Apple > about making the Video Toaster available as a Mac accessory." > > That could mean sticking an Apple label on the A2000 case, but I doubt it. > More likely, Newtek would create a true Mac version... mostly because > if they don't, someone else surely will. - kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> It's still talking about the standalone version, but about an interface for it. There is no existing interface. There will be soon. This is from my sources inside NewTek. The folks at Alcatraz are working on the next generation, though... On to bigger and better things. Greg -- Socrates: "I drank WHAT????" LMFAP: "Next time you see me, it won't be me." Wubba: "A dream is nothing more than a wish dipped in chocolate and sprinkled with a little imagination." (From my poem, "A Dream") -Wubba
rcj2@cbnewsd.att.com (ray.c.jender) (06/25/91)
In article <463@netxcom.netx.com> logan@netxcom.netx.com (Jim Logan) writes: >In article <1991Jun10.232402.23590@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> l-rittle@uiuc.edu (Loren J. Rittle) writes: ># -- ># ``NewTek stated that the Toaster *would* *not* be made to directly support ># the Mac, at this point Sculley stormed out of the booth...'' --- A scene at ># the recent MacExpo. Gee, you wouldn't think that an Apple Exec would be so ># worried about one little Amiga device... Loren J. Rittle l-rittle@uiuc.edu > >I read in Byte this morning that the Toaster will soon be sold to run >with a Mac. > >-- >Jim Logan HOME: logan@gimlet.cntv.va.us WORK: logan@netx.com True, but in order to use the Toaster, you would have to have an Amiga. SOooooooo, NewTek is bundling the Toaster with the Amiga, only covering up the Amiga logo. I assume some type of interfaceing of the Toaster/Amiga with the Mac is possible via the SCSI bus.
smp@myamiga.UUCP (Steven M. Palm) (06/25/91)
In <1991Jun23.161135.12680@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > > I don't think that is even possible. The Video Toaster is so heavily >tied up with the Amiga's old chipset, that even getting it to work with >the ECS is proving difficult. Making it work on a MAC would require a >total redesign, from the ground up. Since I assume you are working with NewTek on this project, in which areas are you experiencing difficulty in adapting to the ECS? If you do not work with/for NewTek on this project, you really should not be making those sort of accusations. Regards, Steve -- /-----------------+--------------------------+-----------------------------\ | smp@myamiga.UUCP | myamiga!smp@fps.mcw.edu | rutgers!uwm!fps!myamiga!smp | \-----------------+--------------------------+-----------------------------/
dant@ryptyde.UUCP (Daniel Tracy) (06/25/91)
Responding to the following: >"Hello? Is anybody in there? Wayne Rigby > Just nod if you can hear me." Computer and Systems Engineer (in training) > - Pink Floyd Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Yes, I'm responding to a Tagline! I believe the correct quote is: "Hello? Is THERE anybody in there?".
jsurace@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Jason A. Surace) (06/25/91)
Personally, it really irks me that the Toaster will
be marketed (possibly for the Mac) using Amiga innards,
with the Amiga getting no credit. Is it legal to construct
a commercial product (i.e. a stand-alone Toaster) using
another company's (Commodore's) designs? It seems like some
kind of licensing infringement to me.
Jason Surace
jsurace@iago.caltech.edu
A3000kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (06/25/91)
> Personally, it really irks me that the Toaster will >be marketed (possibly for the Mac) using Amiga innards, >with the Amiga getting no credit. Is it legal to construct >a commercial product (i.e. a stand-alone Toaster) using >another company's (Commodore's) designs? Sure. "Parts is parts" :-) There are cash registers which use PCs as guts, kiosks with Amigas, and tons of gizmos which use either CoCo or C64 boards. None of them power up and say "Hey I'm really a XX machine in here!" :-) And often these things are built using cutdown systems bought directly from the computer maker, which I believe someone said is also the case for the Mac/Toaster unit. >It seems like some kind of licensing infringement to me. I suppose if you put your own label on the computer and sold it as a computer, you might... ummm.. actually that's probably okay too. Any lawyers around here, btw? cheers - kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) (06/26/91)
From article <1991Jun24.145739.2121@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, by es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita): > What I think that you are missing is that, in the video > markets in the U.S., the Amiga outsells the Mac. That market > (which is where the Toaster is aimed) has no problem with Amigas. > I think that their generic-2000 system is there way of selling to > people who don't want to know about the Amiga, but I doubt that > it is worth their effort to port to the Mac. I'd think they'd be > much better off putting their efforts into improving the Toaster, > as there will certainly be competition RSN. > -- Ethan Okay, I can't, and would never give names, but: My sources (More than one, more than two, in fact, but less than 5. :) tell me: There is NOT going to be a "Mac Toaster" in the sense that there is no "Toaster on a card" for a mac. There is now in development an interface for the Mac to use the Amiga Toaster on the external amiga. The boys (and girls) in Alcatraz are already working on the next generation toaster, as well as a few other nifty products they told me about. Greg -- Socrates: "I drank WHAT????" LMFAP: "Next time you see me, it won't be me." Wubba: "A dream is nothing more than a wish dipped in chocolate and sprinkled with a little imagination." (From my poem, "A Dream") -Wubba
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) (06/26/91)
jsurace@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Jason A. Surace) writes: > > Personally, it really irks me that the Toaster will >be marketed (possibly for the Mac) using Amiga innards, >with the Amiga getting no credit. Is it legal to construct >a commercial product (i.e. a stand-alone Toaster) using >another company's (Commodore's) designs? It seems like some >kind of licensing infringement to me. Ever read of Commodore's O.E.M. and V.A.R. programs? -- C-UseNet V0.42e Ronald Kushner Life in Hell BBS +1 (313) 939-6666 P.O. Box 353 14400 USR HST V.42 & V.42bis Sterling Heights, MI 48311-0353 Complete Amiga Support UUCP: uunet!umich!vela!sycom!rkushner (We are not satanic, just NUTS!) Whats wrong with Detroit? Name it, we got it, and if we don't WE'LL TAKE IT!
jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J Eric Townsend) (06/26/91)
In article <1991Jun25.075911.635@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >Sure. "Parts is parts" :-) There are cash registers which use PCs as guts, >kiosks with Amigas, and tons of gizmos which use either CoCo or C64 boards. >None of them power up and say "Hey I'm really a XX machine in here!" :-) Oh yeah? I've seen more than one cable channel go to coco boot mode early in the morning. :-) -- J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2126 Skate UNIX! (curb fault: skater dumped) PowerGlove mailing list: glove-list-request@karazm.math.uh.edu
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (06/26/91)
jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J Eric Townsend) writes: > (Kevin Darling) writes: >>Sure. "Parts is parts" :-) There are cash registers which use PCs as guts, >>kiosks with Amigas, and tons of gizmos which use either CoCo or C64 boards. >>None of them power up and say "Hey I'm really a XX machine in here!" :-) > >Oh yeah? I've seen more than one cable channel go to coco boot mode >early in the morning. :-) Oops. Yeah, that's true. Kinda like all the Amiga Guru sightings on cable channels, too :-) :-) Plus some POS terminals do come up with an OS boot message. Perhaps I should've said: none ("almost none!" to play it safe :) of the 3td party boxes have the original internal computer label on the front. Thanks for the correction! cheers - kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/26/91)
In article <5202@myamiga.UUCP> smp@myamiga.UUCP (Steven M. Palm) writes: >In <1991Jun23.161135.12680@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: >> >> I don't think that is even possible. The Video Toaster is so heavily >>tied up with the Amiga's old chipset, that even getting it to work with >>the ECS is proving difficult. Making it work on a MAC would require a >>total redesign, from the ground up. > >Since I assume you are working with NewTek on this project, in which areas >are you experiencing difficulty in adapting to the ECS? > I hate to actually AGREE with Marc 8), but he is right here. One of the modifications that need to be made to the A3000 to get the Toaster to work on it is to replace the ECS Denise with the old Denise. This implies that it is using the Denise in some capacity. Perhaps "ground up" redesign is stretching it, but they clearly rely on certain details about the chip set (i.e. breaking the rules) that they shouldn't. -- Ethan FF buckets of bits on the bus, FF buckets of bits. Take one down, Short it to ground, FE buckets of bits on the bus.
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/26/91)
In article <13419@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes: > >The boys (and girls) in Alcatraz are already working on the next >generation toaster, as well as a few other nifty products they told me about. > Aw! You Toaster-Tease! 8-) -- Ethan FF buckets of bits on the bus, FF buckets of bits. Take one down, Short it to ground, FE buckets of bits on the bus.
jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J Eric Townsend) (06/26/91)
In article <1991Jun26.053710.26132@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > I hate to actually AGREE with Marc 8), but he is right >here. One of the modifications that need to be made to the A3000 >to get the Toaster to work on it is to replace the ECS Denise Not any more. NewTek told me yesterday on the phone that they have 2.0 support. They didn't say if it was shipping or not, however. -- J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2126 Skate UNIX! (curb fault: skater dumped) PowerGlove mailing list: glove-list-request@karazm.math.uh.edu
gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) (06/26/91)
From article <1991Jun26.053710.26132@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, by es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita): > Perhaps "ground up" redesign is stretching it, but they > clearly rely on certain details about the chip set (i.e. breaking > the rules) that they shouldn't. Well, I think they had to. What did you expect? You think it's chance that it has 35ns fonts??? Search through, and you can find little specks that correspond in an obscure way. They made the Amiga do loops when they created the toaster, and it worked. Greg -- Socrates: "I drank WHAT????" LMFAP: "Next time you see me, it won't be me." Wubba: "A dream is nothing more than a wish dipped in chocolate and sprinkled with a little imagination." (From my poem, "A Dream") -Wubba
gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) (06/26/91)
From article <1991Jun26.054803.25653@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, by es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita):
> Aw! You Toaster-Tease! 8-)
It's great to have connections. :) Anyways. I guess I can tell you
a bit more... (I just found out a bit more. :) Their next venture
supposedly will require less external hardware (the sync stuff,
perhaps!!!), use the ECS, and pull a few more tricks... I can't wait.
They said that they've been working on it for a while...
It's great to have friends in Topeka. :) And of course, my
information net. :D
Greg
--
Socrates: "I drank WHAT????"
LMFAP: "Next time you see me, it won't be me."
Wubba: "A dream is nothing more than a wish dipped in chocolate and sprinkled
with a little imagination." (From my poem, "A Dream") -Wubbagblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) (06/26/91)
From article <1991Jun26.063904.18647@menudo.uh.edu>, by jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J Eric Townsend): > Not any more. NewTek told me yesterday on the phone that they > have 2.0 support. They didn't say if it was shipping or not, however. 2.0 is the operating system, and has nothing to do with the ECS denise. You can run 2.0 on any amiga, no matter what chipset. But the Toaster requires the old denise. Greg (Anyone know where an ECS denise can be found?) -- Socrates: "I drank WHAT????" LMFAP: "Next time you see me, it won't be me." Wubba: "A dream is nothing more than a wish dipped in chocolate and sprinkled with a little imagination." (From my poem, "A Dream") -Wubba
taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (06/26/91)
In article <1991Jun26.063904.18647@menudo.uh.edu>, jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J Eric Townsend) writes: >In article <1991Jun26.053710.26132@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >> I hate to actually AGREE with Marc 8), but he is right >>here. One of the modifications that need to be made to the A3000 >>to get the Toaster to work on it is to replace the ECS Denise > >Not any more. NewTek told me yesterday on the phone that they >have 2.0 support. They didn't say if it was shipping or not, however. OK, it supports 2.0, but does it support the ECS? Believe it or not, suporting 2.0 and supporting the ECS really are two different things... :-) > >-- >J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2126 >Skate UNIX! (curb fault: skater dumped) > >PowerGlove mailing list: glove-list-request@karazm.math.uh.edu ------------------------------------------------------------- / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / / ISU COM S Student | Internet: XGR39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU / ------------------------------------------------------------ \ The great thing about standards is that / \ there are so many of them to choose from. / -------------------------------------------------------
jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J Eric Townsend) (06/27/91)
In article <13458@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes: >2.0 is the operating system, and has nothing to do with the ECS >denise. You can run 2.0 on any amiga, no matter what chipset. But >the Toaster requires the old denise. I thought I read (some time ago, mind you), that 2.0 had ECS support, as in, "if you want to use 2.0, you'd better make sure you don't stumble all over ECS". >(Anyone know where an ECS denise can be found?) I've got one right now, but I'm sort of using it. :-) -- J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2126 Skate UNIX! (curb fault: skater dumped) PowerGlove mailing list: glove-list-request@karazm.math.uh.edu
mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) (06/27/91)
In article <1991Jun25.044521.592@nntp-server.caltech.edu> jsurace@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Jason A. Surace) writes: > > Personally, it really irks me that the Toaster will >be marketed (possibly for the Mac) using Amiga innards, >with the Amiga getting no credit. Is it legal to construct >a commercial product (i.e. a stand-alone Toaster) using >another company's (Commodore's) designs? It seems like some >kind of licensing infringement to me. > The rumors I've heard are that NewTek is actually buying the Amigas directly from CBM. -- **************************************************** * I want games that look like Shadow of the Beast * * but play like Leisure Suit Larry. * ****************************************************
mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) (06/27/91)
I hope you can take a joke: In article <13458@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes: >(Anyone know where an ECS denise can be found?) Try an A3000 :) -- **************************************************** * I want games that look like Shadow of the Beast * * but play like Leisure Suit Larry. * ****************************************************
gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) (06/28/91)
From article <1991Jun27.063448.28583@menudo.uh.edu>, by jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J Eric Townsend): > I thought I read (some time ago, mind you), that 2.0 had ECS > support, as in, "if you want to use 2.0, you'd better make sure > you don't stumble all over ECS". Not something I've heard, but it makes sense. However, I say again, the toaster does not, and will not support ECS denise. A future toaster may... :) (Hint, hint... plug, plug) > I've got one right now, but I'm sort of using it. :-) I was referring to purchasing, of course. :) Seriously, is it just a drop in for the old denise? Greg -- Socrates: "I drank WHAT????" LMFAP: "Next time you see me, it won't be me." Wubba: "A dream is nothing more than a wish dipped in chocolate and sprinkled with a little imagination." (From my poem, "A Dream") -Wubba
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (06/28/91)
In article <1991Jun25.044521.592@nntp-server.caltech.edu> jsurace@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Jason A. Surace) writes: > Personally, it really irks me that the Toaster will >be marketed (possibly for the Mac) using Amiga innards, >with the Amiga getting no credit. Is it legal to construct >a commercial product (i.e. a stand-alone Toaster) using >another company's (Commodore's) designs? It seems like some >kind of licensing infringement to me. OEM deals happen all the time. You don't think those arcade games with A500 boards in them say "Amiga" anywhere on the cover. Neither do the exercise machines with A500s in them. In our CAD room here, we have a whole slew of computers with the Mentor logo on them. Strange, since Mentor is a only a software company. You see, they OEM Apollo machines, put their sticker on them, and <poof>, instant Mentor computer. The advantage for the user is that he/she only deals with the one company, while for the retailer, extra profits come from selling the package deal, rather than just the program, add-in board or whatever. -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "This is my mistake. Let me make it good." -R.E.M.