tbissett@nstar.rn.com (Travis Bissett) (06/23/91)
I heard a roomer (sic) that C=A will give a free CDTV to bona fide Amiga Users Groups in exchange for promotional considerations. Confirmation and details, please? Travis -- tbissett@nstar.rn.com -- Travis Bissett NSTAR conferencing site 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 internet: tbissett@nstar.rn.com 1300 newsgroups - 8 inbound lines uucp: ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!tbissett 99 file areas - 4300 megabytes --- backbone news & mail feeds available - contact larry@nstar.rn.com ---
navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David C. Navas) (06/24/91)
In article <F74y43w161w@nstar.rn.com> tbissett@nstar.rn.com (Travis Bissett) writes: >I heard a roomer (sic) that C=A will give a free CDTV to bona fide Amiga >Users Groups in exchange for promotional considerations. > >Confirmation and details, please? Confirmation. Here is the deal: You get EVERYBODY in your user group to donate their TIME to teach Macy's (etc.) about CDTV, and your user group gets a total of ONE CDTV. Stupid. Of course, this is because Cmdre appears too CHEAP to go out and teach them themselves. Geez, ya'know folks, we're (hmm, at least I'm) loyal to AMIGA not COMMODORE -- unless you start providing solutions to our problems, why are we fanatics going to help you with yours? If someone bought out Cmdre's Amiga rights, I'd dump them along with the rest of my trash. Sigh... David Navas navas@cory.berkeley.edu 2.0 :: "You can't have your cake and eat it too." Also try c186br@holden, c260-ay@ara and c184-ap@torus
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/24/91)
In article <14234@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU writes: >In article <F74y43w161w@nstar.rn.com> tbissett@nstar.rn.com (Travis Bissett) writes: >>I heard a roomer (sic) that C=A will give a free CDTV to bona fide Amiga >>Users Groups in exchange for promotional considerations. >> >>Confirmation and details, please? > >Confirmation. Here is the deal: > >You get EVERYBODY in your user group to donate their TIME to teach Macy's >(etc.) about CDTV, and your user group gets a total of ONE CDTV. > >Stupid. > Whine... >Of course, this is because Cmdre appears too CHEAP to go out and teach them >themselves. Geez, ya'know folks, we're (hmm, at least I'm) loyal to AMIGA >not COMMODORE -- unless you start providing solutions to our problems, why >are we fanatics going to help you with yours? If someone bought out Cmdre's >Amiga rights, I'd dump them along with the rest of my trash. > >Sigh... > Whine... We keep saying (here and elsewhere) that we are the best salesmen for the Amiga that Commodore has had. Commodore CAN'T teach every Macys, etc., outlet how to market the CDTV. Since when do those stores know anything about electronics anyway. The idea is to have us actually go down to the store and explain things. If people are willing to do it, is there a reason Commodore shouldn't take advantage of it? If you think the people who do it are stupid, that is one thing. Calling Commodore stupid for using practically free marketing is, of itself, stupid. Besides, you got the deal wrong. The individual group members, if they "sell" a lot, can get a commission of a CDTV. FF buckets of bits on the bus, FF buckets of bits. Take one down, Pass it to ground, FE buckets of bits on the bus.
navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David C. Navas) (06/25/91)
In article <1991Jun24.143041.30970@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > Whine... Of course, this is .advocacy, right? >>Of course, this is because Cmdre appears too CHEAP to go out and teach them >>themselves. Geez, ya'know folks, we're (hmm, at least I'm) loyal to AMIGA >>not COMMODORE -- unless you start providing solutions to our problems, why >>are we fanatics going to help you with yours? If someone bought out Cmdre's >>Amiga rights, I'd dump them along with the rest of my trash. > Whine... We keep saying (here and elsewhere) that we are >the best salesmen for the Amiga that Commodore has had. Yeah, we are. But exactly what does this say more about, our salesmanship, or Commodore's lack thereof? >Commodore >CAN'T teach every Macys, etc., outlet how to market the CDTV. Why not? They hire a hundred people, each one goes to a separate city and holds a training seminar. If the cost of this is deferred for six months, the program will more than pay for itself. For those places missed by such an effort, video training tapes are made, and deals are struck with managements, etc. Cmdre has, what, six months to take a significant market share before CD-I arrives? If this is Cmdre's best, we/they are in a bit more trouble than I had thought. >Since when do those stores know anything about electronics >anyway. Let me give you an example that Leo gave last Thursday at Badge. Seems that he went in to a Macy's outlet and they had a CDTV on the floor. Nobody knew anything about it except that "the sound quality sucked, so why bother." Of course, that's because they had it hooked up to a TV's internal speakers... [Well, it went something like that, anyway] I'm not asking for a miracle here, but it seems to me that folks in the Bay Area are going to be one of the better markets, and it would be nice if they would come with SOMETHING that tells them how to hook the thing up, and SOMEBODY to force them to deal with the situation. CDTV is cool when demonstrated by someone like Leo, and B-o-r-i-n-g when demoed by the staff at the local Amiga dealership. > The idea is to have us actually go down to the store and >explain things. If people are willing to do it, is there a reason >Commodore shouldn't take advantage of it? If you think the people >who do it are stupid, that is one thing. Calling Commodore stupid >for using practically free marketing is, of itself, stupid. No, I'm calling Commodore stupid mostly because I don't USE the language which would have to be employed to adequately express the situation :) Firstly, to have the temerity as to expect that WE are going to market this for them is sad. But it appears to me that that is the only thing they ARE doing (at least out here) -- that is what I'm calling stupid. Commodore has always been using my free marketing, the idea being that if we sell more machines, they provide us with better computers. I've been waiting for better graphics chips for a LOOONG time -- heck even the U Lowell board would be better than nothing. It seemed to be working at the '89 Fall DevCon, so two years later it's, where? How long will I wait to get a CD-ROM/CDTV compatible player for my machine? Sure, whine whine whine, but unless Commodore invests in their future, they aren't going to HAVE a future, and that's bad for ME (as an Amiga programmer). The only thing they will have is their copyrights and patents and a couple of lawyers to enforce them [like, Apple Records???], meaning that no one else will get the technology either. So where does that leave either of us? You say be patient -- I've been patient! I dutifully report scads of OS bugs, have arguments with Cmdre as to what is, and what is not, correct program behaviour, and what does it get me? Bugs I reported in 1.4 still haven't been fixed (I had to re-report them to get them fixed), and features that were supposed to be in there LONG ago still aren't (VM, etc.). In addition, features that OUGHT to be there (like resource tracking) aren't, and apparently never will be. And that's the engineering department -- they're the co-operative part of Cmdre, we're talking about marketing!! You don't fix what ain't broke, but if it's broke you don't wait until it fixes itself. Of course, what I'm doing here may blow up in my face, but better a dead duck than a lame duck.... > Besides, you got the deal wrong. The individual group >members, if they "sell" a lot, can get a commission of a CDTV. Completely possible. I was doing my best to quote Leo, but I don't quite have perfect recall. :) I buy quality stuff, that's why I bought a Yamaha kX88 instead of a toy synth., that's why I have a Nec 4D instead of a 1930, and that's why I bought an A3000 and not a clone. That Commodore could care less about their marketing quality burns. That their OS (in particular their user interface) is second rate doesn't really bug me -- I write user interfaces for kicks. But to, by extension, say that the problem doesn't exist WOULD BE stupid. David Navas navas@cory.berkeley.edu 2.0 :: "You can't have your cake and eat it too." Also try c186br@holden, c260-ay@ara and c184-ap@torus
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (06/25/91)
Right on, Ethan. We've been bragging for years that users are the best sales force Commodore has; time for us to put up or shut up. Kudos to Commodore for calling our bluff; now let's go out and show the level of aggression and commitment that Commodore marketing should have had all along! The free CDTV is gravy; the real win is recognition that there is a problem with Commodore marketing that formal use of the "user sales force" can help solve. Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us>
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (06/25/91)
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >Right on, Ethan. We've been bragging for years that users are >the best sales force Commodore has; time for us to put up or >shut up. Kudos to Commodore for calling our bluff; now let's >go out and show the level of aggression and commitment that >Commodore marketing should have had all along! Yes, it's definitely worth a shot. >The free CDTV is gravy; the real win is recognition that there >is a problem with Commodore marketing that formal use of the >"user sales force" can help solve. My experience has been that the best salespeople are those who actually own the target device, be it a computer or stereo or whatever. I'd suggest giving CDTV salespeople an extra special discount (if not done already), in hopes that they buy one themselves. Or at the least, encourage them to take a unit home with them at night. Also, is there a "CDTV sales training" disc? kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/25/91)
In article <14251@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU writes: >In article <1991Jun24.143041.30970@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >> Whine... > >Of course, this is .advocacy, right? > Right you are! 8) >> Whine... We keep saying (here and elsewhere) that we are >>the best salesmen for the Amiga that Commodore has had. > >Yeah, we are. But exactly what does this say more about, our salesmanship, >or Commodore's lack thereof? > We already know what it says. It has been rehashed here MORE than enough times. Commodore's US marketing is not large enough to effectively cover the country. That doesn't change the fact that this IS a good idea, all told. >>Commodore >>CAN'T teach every Macys, etc., outlet how to market the CDTV. > >Why not? They hire a hundred people, each one goes to a separate city and >holds a training seminar. If the cost of this is deferred for six months, >the program will more than pay for itself. > Yes, they could have a hundred people do this. If those people only wanted $1,000 each for the weekend, that would be $100,000. But you are assuming that these people at Macy's WANT to be trained. The stores aren't very interested and the salesmen couldn't care less. >For those places missed by such an effort, video training tapes are made, >and deals are struck with managements, etc. > As above. First, you have to get the salesman to watch the tape. Then, you have to get him to actually make an effort. I'd think that a users group member would be more "enthusiastic", personally. >Cmdre has, what, six months to take a significant market share before CD-I >arrives? If this is Cmdre's best, we/they are in a bit more trouble than >I had thought. > >>Since when do those stores know anything about electronics >>anyway. > >Let me give you an example that Leo gave last Thursday at Badge. Seems that >he went in to a Macy's outlet and they had a CDTV on the floor. Nobody knew >anything about it except that "the sound quality sucked, so why bother." Of >course, that's because they had it hooked up to a TV's internal speakers... >[Well, it went something like that, anyway] > >I'm not asking for a miracle here, but it seems to me that folks in the Bay Area >are going to be one of the better markets, and it would be nice if they >would come with SOMETHING that tells them how to hook the thing up, and >SOMEBODY to force them to deal with the situation. CDTV is cool when >demonstrated by someone like Leo, and B-o-r-i-n-g when demoed by the staff >at the local Amiga dealership. That's why they want to put users group members in there! > >> The idea is to have us actually go down to the store and >>explain things. If people are willing to do it, is there a reason >>Commodore shouldn't take advantage of it? If you think the people >>who do it are stupid, that is one thing. Calling Commodore stupid >>for using practically free marketing is, of itself, stupid. > >No, I'm calling Commodore stupid mostly because I don't USE the language >which would have to be employed to adequately express the situation :) > >Firstly, to have the temerity as to expect that WE are going to market this >for them is sad. But it appears to me that that is the only thing they ARE >doing (at least out here) -- that is what I'm calling stupid. Commodore has >always been using my free marketing, the idea being that if we sell more >machines, they provide us with better computers. I've been waiting for >better graphics chips for a LOOONG time -- heck even the U Lowell board would >be better than nothing. It seemed to be working at the '89 Fall DevCon, so >two years later it's, where? How long will I wait to get a CD-ROM/CDTV >compatible player for my machine? It sounds like you are saying that Commodore has a lot of problems, so this specific thing is stupid. Like I said, if user group members are willing to be cheap marketers for them, then by all means let them take advantage of it. That's what us student reps are. 8-) > > >> Besides, you got the deal wrong. The individual group >>members, if they "sell" a lot, can get a commission of a CDTV. > >Completely possible. I was doing my best to quote Leo, but I don't >quite have perfect recall. :) > >I buy quality stuff, that's why I bought a Yamaha kX88 instead of a toy >synth., that's why I have a Nec 4D instead of a 1930, and that's why I >bought an A3000 and not a clone. That Commodore could care less about >their marketing quality burns. That their OS (in particular their user >interface) is second rate doesn't really bug me -- I write user interfaces >for kicks. But to, by extension, say that the problem doesn't exist >WOULD BE stupid. It seems that their British and German marketing efforts are a bit stronger than the American effort. They seem to be trying to hold on to the markets they have, rather than spend a lot of money breaking into a market they may never get. -- Ethan FF buckets of bits on the bus, FF buckets of bits. Take one down, Pass it to ground, FE buckets of bits on the bus.
navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David C. Navas) (06/25/91)
In article <1991Jun25.012622.8835@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >Yes, it's definitely worth a shot. It's worth far more than a shot. I mean, if Cmdre expects this thing to go ANYWHERE, they are going to have to put a lot more into marketing this little toy than that. And one does get the opinion that they do expect this, else why spend the money developing it in the first place? How about literature and pamphlets? Info about where these stores are located? I belong to two User's Groups, as far as I know, neither one has gotten anything. >My experience has been that the best salespeople are those who actually >own the target device, be it a computer or stereo or whatever. I'd >suggest giving CDTV salespeople an extra special discount (if not done >Also, is there a "CDTV sales training" disc? kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> Two very good suggestions... David Navas navas@cory.berkeley.edu 2.0 :: "You can't have your cake and eat it too." Also try c186br@holden, c260-ay@ara and c184-ap@torus
jejones@mcrware.UUCP (James Jones) (06/25/91)
In article <14251@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU writes: >Cmdre has, what, six months to take a significant market share before CD-I >arrives? If this is Cmdre's best, we/they are in a bit more trouble than >I had thought. In articles I've seen, CD-I players are due out in October, and it's nearly July now, so between three and four months. James Jones
taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (06/25/91)
In article <1991Jun24.233755.1249@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG>, xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >Right on, Ethan. We've been bragging for years that users are >the best sales force Commodore has; time for us to put up or >shut up. Kudos to Commodore for calling our bluff; now let's >go out and show the level of aggression and commitment that >Commodore marketing should have had all along! > >The free CDTV is gravy; the real win is recognition that there >is a problem with Commodore marketing that formal use of the >"user sales force" can help solve. I, for one, absolutely refuse to do Commodore's work for them. Since I bought my Amiga back in early 1986, I have personally sold more Amigas than Commodore's entire marketing department combined. (Well, that's an exageration, but I have talked a LOT of friends into buying Amigas). I have already done a lot of work for Commodore, and have never received a dime for it. Why should I continue to do their work for them? As long as Commodore owns the Amiga and receives the profits for its sales, it is entirely up to Commodore to do the marketing, and we should have to do a damn thing for them. If Commodore were to declare themselves a non-profit company, and give all rights to the Amiga to the Amiga community, I would agree to Amiga users selling the machine. But as long as Commodore's managers as earning 7-digit salaries from our work, Commodore can take their efforts to have us sell their computer for them to hell with them as far as I am concerned. > >Kent, the man from xanth. ><xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> ------------------------------------------------------------- / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / / ISU COM S Student | Internet: XGR39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU / ------------------------------------------------------------ \ The great thing about standards is that / \ there are so many of them to choose from. / -------------------------------------------------------
cseaman@sequent.com (06/26/91)
taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
< I, for one, absolutely refuse to do Commodore's work for them. Since I
< bought my Amiga back in early 1986, I have personally sold more Amigas than
< Commodore's entire marketing department combined. (Well, that's an
< exageration, but I have talked a LOT of friends into buying Amigas). I have
< already done a lot of work for Commodore, and have never received a dime
< for it. Why should I continue to do their work for them?
Well, Marc, up till now I've really tried to give you some credit. You
haven't always had the best presentation manner, but you have, on
occasion, made a valid point.
This time, however, your immaturity and arrogance have gone too far. If
you truly are foolish enough to believe that you have even begun to
approach the sales effort of Commodore, you are a seriously deluded
individual.
Perhaps what you should do is design and market your own Amiga-killer.
You seem convinced that you could do a better job than Commodore, both
in the technical design, as well as market penetration. Until such time
as you DO this great thing, you have earned a place in my kill file.
Good day.
Chris
--
Chris (Insert phrase here) Seaman | "Common sense would dictate that one only
cseaman@gateway.sequent.com <or> | speak about what one understands. That's
...!uunet!sequent!cseaman | the problem with common sense; it's far
The Home of the Killer Smiley | too uncommon." -- D. Haynietaab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (06/26/91)
In article <1991Jun25.170004.13742@sequent.com>, cseaman@sequent.com writes: >taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: >< I, for one, absolutely refuse to do Commodore's work for them. Since I >< bought my Amiga back in early 1986, I have personally sold more Amigas than >< Commodore's entire marketing department combined. (Well, that's an >< exageration, but I have talked a LOT of friends into buying Amigas). I have >< already done a lot of work for Commodore, and have never received a dime >< for it. Why should I continue to do their work for them? > >Well, Marc, up till now I've really tried to give you some credit. You >haven't always had the best presentation manner, but you have, on >occasion, made a valid point. > >This time, however, your immaturity and arrogance have gone too far. If >you truly are foolish enough to believe that you have even begun to >approach the sales effort of Commodore, you are a seriously deluded >individual. That was a wild exageration and I quite clearly said so. > >Good day. >Chris > >-- >Chris (Insert phrase here) Seaman | "Common sense would dictate that one only >cseaman@gateway.sequent.com <or> | speak about what one understands. That's >....!uunet!sequent!cseaman | the problem with common sense; it's far >The Home of the Killer Smiley | too uncommon." -- D. Haynie ------------------------------------------------------------- / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / / ISU COM S Student | Internet: XGR39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU / ------------------------------------------------------------ \ The great thing about standards is that / \ there are so many of them to choose from. / -------------------------------------------------------
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/26/91)
In article <1991Jun25.132334.29734@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: > > I, for one, absolutely refuse to do Commodore's work for them. Since I >bought my Amiga back in early 1986, I have personally sold more Amigas than >Commodore's entire marketing department combined. (Well, that's an >exageration, but I have talked a LOT of friends into buying Amigas). I have >already done a lot of work for Commodore, and have never received a dime >for it. Why should I continue to do their work for them? You miss the point. No one is FORCING you to do anything. Commodore is taking advantage of the fact that there are people, no matter what their motives, who ARE willing to do this. You may think them nuts for doing it, but Commodore is making a smart decision by taking the hyper-enthused rabid Amiga owner and having him/her sell the machine. > >But as long >as Commodore's managers as earning 7-digit salaries from our work, >Commodore can take their efforts to have us sell their computer for them >to hell with them as far as I am concerned. Just a small correction. Commodore's "managers" don't make 7 digit salaries. There are TWO people at Commodore who make 7 digits, and they are Irving Gould (who founded the company and owns 20% of the stock) and Mehdi Ali (CEO? I forget). Irving Gould gets the money because he owns the company (i.e., Homey don't play that). Mehdi Ali gets it because he is the hot-shot manager they hired and they need to give him that money to keep him. You may think it is excessive. I may think it is excessive. But Commodore's "managers" make more down-to-Earth salaries. In fact, there is an enormous jump down in salary from Irving Gould to the next lower paid employee (I believe Copperman got $450,000 for being President of CBM) -- Ethan FF buckets of bits on the bus, FF buckets of bits. Take one down, Short it to ground, FE buckets of bits on the bus.
jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) (06/26/91)
Quoted from <1991Jun25.132334.29734@news.iastate.edu> by taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett): > I, for one, absolutely refuse to do Commodore's work for them. Since I So, will we finally see an end to your market analysis and free advice? > sales, it is entirely up to Commodore to do the marketing, and we should > have to do a damn thing for them. If Commodore were to declare themselves No, we don't _have_ to. But we should be able to if we want. > / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / -- *** John Bickers, TAP, NZAmigaUG. jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz *** *** "Endless variations, make it all seem new" - Devo. ***
manes@vger.nsu.edu ((Mark D. Manes), Norfolk State University) (06/26/91)
In article <1991Jun25.132334.29734@news.iastate.edu>, taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > In article <1991Jun24.233755.1249@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG>, xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >> >>The free CDTV is gravy; the real win is recognition that there >>is a problem with Commodore marketing that formal use of the >>"user sales force" can help solve. > > I, for one, absolutely refuse to do Commodore's work for them. Since I > bought my Amiga back in early 1986, I have personally sold more Amigas than > Commodore's entire marketing department combined. (Well, that's an > exageration, but I have talked a LOT of friends into buying Amigas). I have > already done a lot of work for Commodore, and have never received a dime > for it. Why should I continue to do their work for them? I think Commodore would be grateful if you didn't try to work for them in any shape or form. I really feel sorry for anyone that would decide to hire you. They could not afford to let you speak--even once! You really do prove the phrase that there are some people who should never be sold anything. I hope the NeXT dealer that see's you will be smart enough to say "I am sorry sir...we don't need any more twits with our equipment. Perhaps you should consider a Nintendo?" Sorry Mark... I was exagerating. :-) > > As long as Commodore owns the Amiga and receives the profits for its > sales, it is entirely up to Commodore to do the marketing, and we should > have to do a damn thing for them. If Commodore were to declare themselves > a non-profit company, and give all rights to the Amiga to the Amiga > community, I would agree to Amiga users selling the machine. But as long > as Commodore's managers as earning 7-digit salaries from our work, > Commodore can take their efforts to have us sell their computer for them > to hell with them as far as I am concerned. It is not a question of "have too". It seems to me that Commodore is "damned if they do, and damned if they don't". I don't know how many postings in the past that I have seen that said "Why doesn't Commodore utilize us more?". Commodore decides to try that and what do they get? Flamed by a twit. I also would like to know who makes a 7 digit salary that is in sales? Mark is this yet another exageraation? You know I just get to thinking that you have a few valid points, then you post trash like this. You are now in my kill file. May you live there forever. > >> >>Kent, the man from xanth. >><xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / > / ISU COM S Student | Internet: XGR39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU / > ------------------------------------------------------------ > \ The great thing about standards is that / > \ there are so many of them to choose from. / > ------------------------------------------------------- -mark= manes@vger.nsu.edu
griffin@frith.egr.msu.edu (Danny Griffin) (06/27/91)
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > Just a small correction. Commodore's "managers" don't >make 7 digit salaries. There are TWO people at Commodore who make >7 digits, and they are Irving Gould (who founded the company and >owns 20% of the stock) and Mehdi Ali (CEO? I forget). Mehdi Ali, President $2,015,949 salary and compensation $6,089,730 stock ownership $9,000,000 stock options in last three years Irving Gould, CEO $1,750,000 salary and compensation $98,930,070 stock ownership Harold Copperman $459,542 salary and compensation Henri Rubin $435,511 salary and compensation $4,784,610 stock ownership -- Dan Griffin griffin@frith.egr.msu.edu
mike@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Smithwick) (06/27/91)
In article <1991Jun25.012622.8835@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: >>Right on, Ethan. We've been bragging for years that users are >>the best sales force Commodore has; time for us to put up or >>shut up. Kudos to Commodore for calling our bluff; now let's >>go out and show the level of aggression and commitment that >>Commodore marketing should have had all along! > >Yes, it's definitely worth a shot. > Trouble is that sometimes the most enthusiastic Amigans can go all the way from being charmingly eccentric to downright frightning. Imagine being a salesgeek at M*cy's and in comes your Commodore contact, a guy with shoulder length hair, long flowing cape, and a walking stick. Wait a minute? This is a guy who will tell you what a serious machine the CDTV is? Give me a break! Is this the kind of image C-A really needs? It is very refreshing when I go to a DevCon and meet with the C-A markeing and management type come across as very professional and confident people. Not to put down guys with capes, but if you want the Amiga taken seriously as a professional machine, the T-shirts must come off and the ties go on. -- "There is no problem too big that can't be solved with high explosives"-Rush Mike Smithwick - ames!zorch!mike
peter@Sugar.NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) (06/27/91)
In article <1991Jun25.132334.29734@news.iastate.edu>, taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > I, for one, absolutely refuse to do Commodore's work for them. We noticed. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>. 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (06/28/91)
In article <1991Jun27.060601.16414@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> mike@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Smithwick) writes: > >Trouble is that sometimes the most enthusiastic Amigans can go all >the way from being charmingly eccentric to downright frightning. Imagine >being a salesgeek at M*cy's and in comes your Commodore contact, a guy >with shoulder length hair, long flowing cape, and a walking stick. Sounds like a guy causing much more confidence on my side as such a business-suit guy :-). Well I know, I don't represent the business world, and thus I'm *not* in Marketing. >Not to put down guys with capes, but if you want the >Amiga taken seriously as a professional machine, the T-shirts must >come off and the ties go on. Yes, that's the sad side of today's life. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (06/28/91)
mike@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Smithwick) writes: > [about CBM using Amiga owners as CDTV sales boosters] > Trouble is that sometimes the most enthusiastic Amigans can go all > the way from being charmingly eccentric to downright frightning. Imagine > being a salesgeek at M*cy's and in comes your Commodore contact, a guy > with shoulder length hair, long flowing cape, and a walking stick. Wait > a minute? This is a guy who will tell you what a serious machine the > CDTV is? Give me a break! But CDTV _isn't_ a deadly serious machine, y'see. So the caped guy might be just the ticket in this case :-) :-) It would beat my first look at an A2000, btw... the store owner shoved his 11-year old kid at me to show it, and all the kid knew how to do was to play some fighter shoot-em-up game. I'm sure I'm not alone in that. > Is this the kind of image C-A really needs? It is very refreshing > when I go to a DevCon and meet with the C-A markeing and management type > come across as very professional and confident people. Seriously, I agree... but for CDTV, you need whatever passes as a typical stereo salesman, perhaps... with a little extra enthusiasm thrown in :-) > Not to put down guys with capes, but if you want the > Amiga taken seriously as a professional machine, the T-shirts must > come off and the ties go on. Confusion again. Selling a CDTV unit is NOT REPEAT NOT the same as selling an "professional usage" Amiga. cheers - kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
billc@cryo.rain.com (William J. Coldwell) (06/28/91)
In article <1991Jun27.060601.16414@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> mike@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Smithwick) writes: >In article <1991Jun25.012622.8835@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >>xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes: [discussion about how we have to do Commodore's marketing (again, as usual, etc... deleted] >Trouble is that sometimes the most enthusiastic Amigans can go all >the way from being charmingly eccentric to downright frightning. Imagine >being a salesgeek at M*cy's and in comes your Commodore contact, a guy >with shoulder length hair, long flowing cape, and a walking stick. Wait >a minute? This is a guy who will tell you what a serious machine the >CDTV is? Give me a break! What? Doesn't the look of wisdom in the eyes count for anything? I would take the advice of someone like that ;-). >Is this the kind of image C-A really needs? It is very refreshing >when I go to a DevCon and meet with the C-A markeing and management type >come across as very professional and confident people. >Not to put down guys with capes, but if you want the >Amiga taken seriously as a professional machine, the T-shirts must >come off and the ties go on. [Sigh of relief] For a moment, I thought that you were also going to require a haircut. ;-) Somehow your conversation went from CDTV to the Amiga... If you're gonna put ties on those salespeople, make sure that you send them to Commodore sponsored sales classes also. Otherwise, the store "hackers" are going to remain the only people who know what's going on with the Amiga... (every decent computer store has one, just look for the guy in the T-shirt) ;-) ;-) >Mike Smithwick - ames!zorch!mike -- William J. Coldwell Internet: billc@cryo.rain.com I ZROCK! Amiga Attitude Adjuster UUCP: tektronix!percy!cryo!billc 3-D Pro 2.0! Cryogenic Software BBX: CRYO @ 503/257-4823 [ORPOR] CSA 40/4 Magnum! This message was brought to you by the Number '3' and the Letter 'D'.