danielh@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Daniel Hartman) (06/28/91)
Ok, I've been meaning to write a letter like this for a LONG time. A couple of amiga users problems with commodore: One thing that constantly amazes me about the Commodore Amiga is the fact that CBM is still in business. It just boggles the mind that they could possibly sell any computers with their kinds of business decisions. For example, in Wisconsin (I don't know if it is any different elsewhere, but... ) I only know of 1 Commodore dealer in the state. Why? All the dealers I've talked to have dropped Commodore because of a couple of reasons. First, CBM has been pressuring them to sell their PC clone line. What a joke. Why would anyone buy a Commodore PC when they could get something like a GATEWAY 2000 for less and have a heck of a lot better computer? Second, for some unfathomable reason, CBM has trouble getting parts to dealers. The three timese I have had to have repairs (2 warranty, 1 my fault), it took a month, 4 months, and just recently I got my 3000 back after 3 weeks. How hard can it be to ship out a replacement motherboard? Reaallllyyyyy. ULTRA BAD BUSINESS DECISIONS: (by CBM) 1. Making the 500 look like a C128 (no comments necessary) 2. Not putting a 68020 in the 2000 when it was introduced. (Might have stopped companies from making incompatible software (with the accelerated proc.) from the beginning. 3. Not including a hard drive with the 2000, or producing a cheap A500 or A1000 type computer with a hard drive. What kind of computer does NOT have a hard drive? Sure, maybe a 500 might cost $800 instead of $500, but then, maybe people would buy a 500HD instead of a Mac Classic. 4. (When they do it), putting 2.0 on ROMs for the 3000. It takes about 1 second to load in the operating system from the harddrive, PLUS, its automaticly put in faster RAM. 5. Not developing at least 8 bit color options by now. Yes, I know how hard it is since they painted themselves into a corner with the custom chips, but why didn't they just make faster versions of all the custom chips on the 3000 so they could handle higher resolutions & bitplanes from the start. I'd be willing to pay another $1000 for such. 6. Not advertising. I don't mean televison commercials (how many people go, gee I think I'll buy a PS/1 because I saw a TV commercial ?!?!?!?) What about nice advertisments in general computer magazines, or the mac strategy - put ads in PC Magazine and other popular PC magazines. 7. CDTV. I'd personally rather see better graphics capabilities, 68040 boards, etc. Now, it may sound like I'm biased against the low-end users. However, you don't hear PC and XT owners dictating how the industries going, do you? No, its the high end users with 386s and 486s who 'control' the direction. Also, if 500s did come with hard drives, and more were sold, then they wouldn't cost as much, would they? Of course, Commodore does do some things right. For example, making the computer and WB/KS in the first place. Personally, I feel WB is the best single user OS there is; why not have the best personal computer there is to go with it? Maybe its just marketing and management. Something needs to change! Anyway, here's what I feel needs to be done. 8 bit VGA quality graphics, with or without the custom chips support. Cheap Amiga with native hard drive - less than $1000 w/o monitor. Dump CDTV and put some R&D where it belongs - with the amiga. Develope good relations with dealers and increase the number of dealers. Get Unix 2.0 out with a 68040 and have a cheap, fast unix box, that happens to run AMIGADOS. (backdoor method of selling amigas) Either make a 386 bridgeboard or forget it (Cheaper just to buy another clone) Decent advertising - maybe a full page add saying: Sure, the mac is easy to learn, but is it easy to use? The Amiga is infinitely more flexible, with GUI and CLI integrated, as well as other features, such as AREXX and real multitasking - plus it cost less than a mac and about the same as a clone. PC Clone power/price ratio with a real operating system. Or something to that effect. Enough complaints for now. Dan Hartman
rjc@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (06/28/91)
Please don't respond to this post, no matter how temped you are.
We just got finished rehashing all this stuff, and not someone
starts it back at the beginning again.
--
/ INET:rjc@gnu.ai.mit.edu * // The opinions expressed here do not \
| INET:r_cromwe@upr2.clu.net | \X/ in any way reflect the views of my self.|
\ UUCP:uunet!tnc!m0023 * /lmbailey@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Laurana Bailey) (06/28/91)
Gee Dan, that sounds a lot like what I was saying only I didn't offer any suggestions in my post. I hope you wore your asbestos clothing because judging from the number of flames I've gotten, Ron (From Life In Hell BBS) and the others should be trying to toast you sometime soon. If you'd listen to Ron and his likes you'd think there wasn't anything at all wrong at Commodore. It's the perfect computer company. Good luck. Laurana -- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ |Just another lemming... | Yet another Amiga maniac set loose | | | on the world...and you thought things| |lmbailey@vela.acs.oakland.edu | couldn't get any worse. |
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (06/28/91)
In article <2326@tekig7.MAP.TEK.COM> danielh@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Daniel Hartman) writes: > >ULTRA BAD BUSINESS DECISIONS: (by CBM) > >1. Making the 500 look like a C128 (no comments necessary) No issue any more today. >2. Not putting a 68020 in the 2000 when it was introduced. (Might have stopped > companies from making incompatible software (with the accelerated proc.) from > the beginning. Remember: Back then when the A2000 was introduced, the 020 was expensive like several computers on their own, way too expensive. >3. Not including a hard drive with the 2000, or producing a cheap A500 or A1000 > type computer with a hard drive. What kind of computer does NOT have a hard > drive? Sure, maybe a 500 might cost $800 instead of $500, but then, maybe > people would buy a 500HD instead of a Mac Classic. Yes, and this difference $800 to $500 really makes it. >4. (When they do it), putting 2.0 on ROMs for the 3000. It takes about 1 second > to load in the operating system from the harddrive, PLUS, its automaticly > put in faster RAM. Sorry, I hear more people complaining about this 'kludge'. >7. CDTV. I'd personally rather see better graphics capabilities, 68040 boards, > etc. > >Now, it may sound like I'm biased against the low-end users. However, you don't >hear PC and XT owners dictating how the industries going, do you? >No, its the high end users with 386s and 486s who 'control' the direction. >Also, if 500s did come with hard drives, and more were sold, then they wouldn't >cost as much, would they? It's simply because Commodore sees these things completely different, that we are still alive! The A500 and also the Commodore XTs (the latter at least in Europe) sell like hell. It's a *mass market*. In this mass market Commodore is the clear leader (at least in Europe), so we can make our living with it, no luxury though, but we survive. *Any dollar* that you add to the price - and be it for a real valuable add-on - is directly affecting sales figures. So Commodore must very deeply research which add-on will pay and which not. Until now, this job was done nicely, in that the named mass market is stable. And the last decision, introducing the CDTV, aims in the same direction: to the masses, to every family that also has a TV or a stereo. If this works similarly, there will be another possibility to earn the living. And considering the high-end machines: Yes, Commodore is also in this business (do you know we sell 386's and 486's here?). And here we also sell these devices well, because we have a well-known name. Yes, Commodore is known as a computer company by every European, and yes, most of them still remember more the 'game' computers, but that doesn't hurt so much, because they still recognize that it's a powerful, market-leading company. Yes, here in Germany, we compete directly with IBM on the PC market! (At least counting devices, when counting values, we are one place further behind, 3rd perhaps, don't have the current figures at hand.) Now, what can we learn from this: If you have a market segment, you have to keep it. Don't give it away for some ambitious dreams. Then, when you have this solid base, you may moderately expand into other market segments. If this works well, you have a second basis and can gather resources for yet another. And so on. And on this way Commodore has steadily grown during the last few years, and I really hope it will continue so. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (06/28/91)
In article <2326@tekig7.MAP.TEK.COM> danielh@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Daniel Hartman) writes: >ULTRA BAD BUSINESS DECISIONS: (by CBM) >1. Making the 500 look like a C128 (no comments necessary) Hey, we sold 3 million C128s. The A500 should be so lucky (ok, it won't be that much longer...). Point here is, any cheap computer winds up looking something like a C128 or a C64. That has alot to do with how they get that cheap. Heck, even Tandy has made a few PClones that look like C128s, for exactly the same reasons. >2. Not putting a 68020 in the 2000 when it was introduced. (Might have stopped > companies from making incompatible software (with the accelerated proc.) from > the beginning. That would have been nice, but unfortunately, it wasn't done that way. The A2000 would have been better with a 68020, sure. There really aren't that many compatibility problems, mainly due to the fact that we told developers the proper do's and don'ts from the start. >4. (When they do it), putting 2.0 on ROMs for the 3000. It takes about 1 > second to load in the operating system from the harddrive, PLUS, its > automaticly put in faster RAM. Far as I know, ROM for the A3000 is an option. Well, actually, it always will be in any case; even if you have ROM, you can always load it into 32 bit fast memory. However, with the 32 bit wide ROMs on the A3000, you're not going that much slower running out of ROM, the real difference between ROM and some kind of MMU setup is on A2500-class machines, where you have a 16 bit ROM and a slower memory cycle to get to it. The A2000 ROM cycle is 560ns. The A3000 ROM cycle is probably around 240ns-280ns (I don't recall exactly, but it's rather adjustable on the motherboard), and the RAM cycle is 200ns (faster with burst on). So ROM on the 3000 is roughly 4x faster than on the A2000 if you're dealing with a 32 bit processor on the 2000. >6. Not advertising. I don't mean televison commercials (how many people go, gee > I think I'll buy a PS/1 because I saw a TV commercial ?!?!?!?) What about > nice advertisments in general computer magazines, or the mac strategy - put > ads in PC Magazine and other popular PC magazines. They do advertise in magazines, though not the PClone rags. I guess they have some clue as to where the advertising dollar will achieve its best return. I wouldn't want to be the one to guess. >7. CDTV. I'd personally rather see better graphics capabilities, 68040 boards, > etc. You shouldn't make the mistake of think one precludes the other. Each of the things you mention above would consume different resources (eg, low-end systems guy, chip guy, high end systems guy). Commodore's main reason for being is to make money. I personally hope that coincides with the creation of lots of high end goodies, since that's what I work on. But realize that Commodore's strength has been at the low end, and probably will be for some time to come. >No, its the high end users with 386s and 486s who 'control' the direction. It's the companies that control the direction, software generally more than hardware. Users only control things to the extent that they vote with their checkbook. >Dump CDTV and put some R&D where it belongs - with the amiga. Do you have any idea what you're talking about here? CDTV was pretty much made from "off the shelf" A500 parts. It was hardly a hog of hardware engineering resources (in fact, it was mainly done outside of engineering proper here in West Chester). >Enough complaints for now. Some of your other points were valid. Like I said, I'm happier than a pig in shit when I see C= try to push further into the high end. It means my job will be more fun in the future. But don't expect it to happen overnight. C= is still trying to figure out what it is we're building at the high end and how to sell it. I think they're getting better at it, but a drop at a time, when everyone in the "Commodore Critique" business wants a flood. >Dan Hartman -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "This is my mistake. Let me make it good." -R.E.M.
manes@vger.nsu.edu ((Mark D. Manes), Norfolk State University) (06/28/91)
In article <2326@tekig7.MAP.TEK.COM>, danielh@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Daniel Hartman) writes: Before I start when did it become fashionable to flame Commodore? It seems to be the going trend. It is too bad the flames are so badly misdirected. Sigh... > Ok, I've been meaning to write a letter like this for a LONG time. I pray you never send this letter. Let it die with this message as well as the countless others you are going to generate. Perhaps that is the real purpose of this posting? > > A couple of amiga users problems with commodore: > > One thing that constantly amazes me about the Commodore Amiga is the fact that > CBM is still in business. It just boggles the mind that they could possibly > sell any computers with their kinds of business decisions. You bought one didn't you? That boggles my mind. If you thought Commodore was so screwed up why did you participate? Did you think that you were above all of these screwups? Did you think that you might be able to change the course that -MB- has set? Doom is just over the hill and yet you purchased an Amiga? Therapy may be in order. > > For example, in Wisconsin (I don't know if it is any different elsewhere, but... > ) I only know of 1 Commodore dealer in the state. Why? All the dealers I've > talked to have dropped Commodore because of a couple of reasons. First, CBM has > been pressuring them to sell their PC clone line. What a joke. Why would > anyone buy a Commodore PC when they could get something like a GATEWAY 2000 for > less and have a heck of a lot better computer? Second, for some unfathomable > reason, CBM has trouble getting parts to dealers. The three timese I have had > to have repairs (2 warranty, 1 my fault), it took a month, 4 months, and just > recently I got my 3000 back after 3 weeks. How hard can it be to ship out a > replacement motherboard? Reaallllyyyyy. 1. Commodore has NEVER pressured us to sell their PC clones (I work for a dealership) They did allow us to sell them, and that is different. 2. I have a Commodore 286 PC-40 Series III. Never the first moments trouble with compatibility or reliablity. Why do you think that Commodore's PC clones stink? 3. We don't have problems getting parts. Of course some parts like replacement A1000 keyboards were not easy to get, but all in all we get what we order in a reasonable amount of time. 4. You bought an A3000! Why oh why? Doom is over the next hill! 5. Commodore dealers don't tend to tell the 'whole truth' when their relationship with Commodore is not going well. The only relationship that Commodore truly cares about is money. If the bills are paid you have a good relationship. It is that simple. Some dealers forget this principle. > > ULTRA BAD BUSINESS DECISIONS: (by CBM) > > 1. Making the 500 look like a C128 (no comments necessary) That was a _great_ decision in my opinion. It is a very low-cost design, further at the time, this gave the Amiga buyer an inexpensive method of getting into Amiga computing. Prior to the A500 you could only purchase the very expensive A1000. > > 2. Not putting a 68020 in the 2000 when it was introduced. (Might have stopped > companies from making incompatible software (with the accelerated proc.) from > the beginning. Giggle. How quick we forget our history. The 68020 was expensive in 1987. I doubt that you would have paid the price, nor would have most. The point of the A500 and the A2000 was to replace the A1000. The most common complaint about the A1000 had to do with it being too in-expensive for business use and too expensive for home use. The A500 answered the low-end and the A2000 answered the major question of the time which was expandability. > > 3. Not including a hard drive with the 2000, or producing a cheap A500 or A1000 > type computer with a hard drive. What kind of computer does NOT have a hard > drive? Sure, maybe a 500 might cost $800 instead of $500, but then, maybe > people would buy a 500HD instead of a Mac Classic. If they had included a hard disk with the A2000 we would not have Supra, GVP, IVS and other hardware developers. Do you really wish this? There is a reason things are designed the way they are. Sometimes hardware capability is traded for improving the marketplace. Improving the marketplace allows the improvement in hardware. It is a tight circle that Commodore seems to understand. > > 4. (When they do it), putting 2.0 on ROMs for the 3000. It takes about 1 second > to load in the operating system from the harddrive, PLUS, its automaticly > put in faster RAM. They are going to put 2.0 in ROM for all machines (a500/a2xxx/a3xxx). What is the beef? > > 5. Not developing at least 8 bit color options by now. Yes, I know how hard it > is since they painted themselves into a corner with the custom chips, but > why didn't they just make faster versions of all the custom chips on the 3000 > so they could handle higher resolutions & bitplanes from the start. I'd > be willing to pay another $1000 for such. > I believe you already have 8 bit graphics now. If you want more then may I suggest you look at any of the number of 18-24 bit solutions that are now available. > 6. Not advertising. I don't mean televison commercials (how many people go, gee > I think I'll buy a PS/1 because I saw a TV commercial ?!?!?!?) What about > nice advertisments in general computer magazines, or the mac strategy - put > ads in PC Magazine and other popular PC magazines. > They _are_ advertising! I see Amiga ads all of the time in print. TV is expensive. If I had a limited budget, I would opt for the most market coverage instead of a flash in the pan which TV is. You need a lot of flashes to maket TV effective. > 7. CDTV. I'd personally rather see better graphics capabilities, 68040 boards, > etc. Give me a break. You want a $4000 CDTV? Who the hell would they sell that too? The power CDTV user... give me a break. > > Now, it may sound like I'm biased against the low-end users. However, you don't > hear PC and XT owners dictating how the industries going, do you? > No, its the high end users with 386s and 486s who 'control' the direction. > Also, if 500s did come with hard drives, and more were sold, then they wouldn't > cost as much, would they? Actually it _was_ the XT and AT owners that did drive that market. Competition breeds improvement. Of course it is debatable as to whether there has been improvement in the PC community. :-) > > Of course, Commodore does do some things right. For example, making the > computer and WB/KS in the first place. Personally, I feel WB is the best > single user OS there is; why not have the best personal computer there is to > go with it? Commodore did not invent these things, Amiga Corp. did. Commodore marketed the machine and in my opinion have improved the hardware and the software consistantly this last six years. > > Maybe its just marketing and management. Something needs to change! I think the change is needed at the customer level. :-) There should be a test given to any C64 user who wants to buy an Amiga. This test should have three questions: 1. Do you believe that all software should be free? 2. Do you believe that Commodore 'owes' you for your previous purchase? 3. Do you believe that Commodore is a 'social-service' or should be? If the answer is "YES" to any of these questions, the dealership should _not_ sell an Amiga to this customer. The dealership should throw this bum out into the street with a map to ComputerLand, the land of plenty. In some ways I think the A500 is the worst thing that ever happened to the Amiga. I got rid of my c64 to escape the mentality that is expressed in this message. I know this guy just purchased an Amiga 3000 ... I'll bet his first machine was a c64 and then the A500. I am tired of the "cheap" New-Age Bash Commodore attitude that Amiga owners seem to be have that consists of: "Put a 68040, 24 bit graphics, 32 bit stereo sound, make it PC compatible and make sure none of my software breaks all for $50" and "Oh, I want a six year warranty and if I am not happy within 10 years I want my money back!" > > Anyway, here's what I feel needs to be done. > > 8 bit VGA quality graphics, with or without the custom chips support. Repeat after me: VGA sucks hind-tit...VGA sucks hind-tit... > Cheap Amiga with native hard drive - less than $1000 w/o monitor. Perhaps you can sign up for the new "give an Amiga" program that Commodore has. I call it the Power up program. Costs a bit more than a $1000 but it does give you a hard disk. > Dump CDTV and put some R&D where it belongs - with the amiga. CDTV is an Amiga! CDTV is going to (hopefully) be the new cash cow. It may be the solution to a big part of Commodores woes. Dump CDTV? Absolutely not! > Develope good relations with dealers and increase the number of dealers. We have a _good_ relationship with Commodore and really would not want to see a slew of new dealers in our area. :-) Our dealership pays its bills! Suggest that to your dealership. > Get Unix 2.0 out with a 68040 and have a cheap, fast unix box, that happens > to run AMIGADOS. (backdoor method of selling amigas) See "Power Up" deal. > Either make a 386 bridgeboard or forget it (Cheaper just to buy another clone) NO! Spend R&D on the Amiga. Revise the bridgeboards and make them cheaper, like $100-$200. That way you can't say "buy a clone ... its cheaper" > Decent advertising - maybe a full page add saying: > Sure, the mac is easy to learn, but is it easy to use? The Amiga is > infinitely more flexible, with GUI and CLI integrated, as well as > other features, such as AREXX and real multitasking - plus it cost > less than a mac and about the same as a clone. > PC Clone power/price ratio with a real operating system. Please stay out of advertising? Please? > > Or something to that effect. > > Enough complaints for now. Yes.. enough already! > > Dan Hartman ^^^^^^^^^^^ Another MB wannabe... -mark= manes@vger.nsu.edu "What this world needs is a good cheap $5 plasma weapon"
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) (06/29/91)
lmbailey@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Laurana Bailey) writes: >Gee Dan, that sounds a lot like what I was saying only I didn't offer >any suggestions in my post. I hope you wore your asbestos clothing >because judging from the number of flames I've gotten, Ron (From Life >In Hell BBS) and the others should be trying to toast you sometime >soon. If you'd listen to Ron and his likes you'd think there wasn't >anything at all wrong at Commodore. It's the perfect computer company. I never said they were perfect, you're just taking a company thats ranked 29th in this country(Commodore) that was actually bankrupt in 1986/1987 and compairing it to a company like Apple who is #5 and has never had self destructive management....Sure Apple made it up to #5, but it took 12 YEARS of good times! Commodore has never had excellent management, but you want miracels. Even an article in Computer Shopper on the Mac IIfx states the Commodore Amiga is a techinal tour de force...And this is a guy reviewing the best Mac at the time, and saying this about the Amiga..Commodore couldn't even pay for an good press like that...Oh, but it wasn't on Channel 7...Sorry...I forgot TV IS YOUR GOD... I live in the real world and realize that REAL HAND WRITTEN LETTERS to Commodore will work more wonders than frighting users away from them on UseNet with doom and gloom... Like I said, you gotta give Commodore another 3 years before you fry them in the electric chair...Don't expect them to turn around like Chrysler did, because Commodore wasn't loaned a billion dollars from Uncle Sam...Don't expect poor sales in the US scare them to rush out a 32 bit chip set, 24 bit color, or anything else like that. Poor sales in Germany can only do that! And I suspect that US sales will really surprise you once the figures are released, this last year wasn't all that bad even with the recession. Actually, the recession probably helped Commodore because when people go shopping they will be looking for more for the money... If Al wants to feed his kids, tell him to get cheap PC clones and sell sell sell...Man does not live on Amiga alone.... And, as I have recently pointed out, there are 97 BBS's in the 313 area code supporting the Amiga. 43 BBS's supporting the Mac, and 324 supporting IBM...When you have 1/3 the support publically as IBM does, and twice the support of the Mac, that means people are buying the products and using their modems...And not just playing games!! This shows interest in their computers as well...I would suggest there are more Amigas in the homes, being USED, locally than there are Macs and Atari STs combined, just from the BBS support. Seeing how there are more Amiga modemers than Mac modemers, why has fraudigy continued to ignore the Amiga? -- C-UseNet V0.42f Ronald Kushner Life in Hell BBS +1 (313) 939-6666 P.O. Box 353 14400 USR HST V.42 & V.42bis Sterling Heights, MI 48311-0353 Complete Amiga Support UUCP: uunet!umich!vela!sycom!rkushner (We are not satanic, just NUTS!)
don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) (06/29/91)
In article <1139.286b1bef@vger.nsu.edu> manes@vger.nsu.edu ((Mark D. Manes), Norfolk State University) writes: >If the answer is "YES" to any of these questions, the dealership should >_not_ sell an Amiga to this customer. The dealership should throw >this bum out into the street with a map to ComputerLand, the land of >plenty. :-) Only problem with the above is that around here ComputerLand _is_ the dealership. Pretty good one, too. -- Gibberish May the Publications Editor, AmigaNetwork is spoken fork() be Amiga Student On-Campus Consultant, U of D here. with you. DISCLAIMER: It's all YOUR fault.
peter@Sugar.NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) (06/29/91)
In article <1139.286b1bef@vger.nsu.edu> manes@vger.nsu.edu ((Mark D. Manes), Norfolk State University) writes: > Before I start when did it become fashionable to flame Commodore? It's not Politically Correct to make mistakes any more. Everyone, and every company, makes mistakes. It's the result of making decisions on limited information. But it's just not PC. I do think it's probably time for some more ads on MTV. Pushing the Amiga plus the Video Toaster. Get all those MTV video wannabes buying them. You know, the ones like Bill and Ted with rich parents and a *need* to make a most triumphant video... *Give* a couple of Toaster equipped Amigas to some of those Video Jockeys on the condition they use them on their shows for at least 6 months. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>. 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
farren@well.sf.ca.us (Mike Farren) (06/30/91)
danielh@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Daniel Hartman) writes: >Ok, I've been meaning to write a letter like this for a LONG time. Maybe you should have waited longer :-) >ULTRA BAD BUSINESS DECISIONS: (by CBM) >1. Making the 500 look like a C128 (no comments necessary) Oh, I don't know. They made the C128 look like an Amiga 1000, after all :-) >2. Not putting a 68020 in the 2000 when it was introduced. (Might have stopped > companies from making incompatible software (with the accelerated proc.) > from the beginning. Well, there were damn few 68020 options of any kind when the A2000 came out. Sure, it could have had one, but the price would have doubled. Remember - at that time, a 68020 add-on (or, for that matter, the chip itself) cost several kilobucks. >3. Not including a hard drive with the 2000, or producing a cheap A500 or A1000 > type computer with a hard drive. What kind of computer does NOT have a hard > drive? Macs, for one. A lot of computers are sold sans hard drive, and since C/A offers the A590 for the 500 and sells the 2000HD, your point is moot. If you're talking about the original A2000, way back when, there were no good hard drive systems available for ANY Amiga at that time. >4. (When they do it), putting 2.0 on ROMs for the 3000. It takes about 1 > second to load in the operating system from the harddrive, PLUS, its > automaticly put in faster RAM. "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." "So don't do that." You don't HAVE to run from ROM on an A3000. It's been pointed out many times in these groups that the ability to run out of RAM is always there, as long as you have an MMU. >5. Not developing at least 8 bit color options by now. Yes, I know how hard it > is since they painted themselves into a corner with the custom chips, but > why didn't they just make faster versions of all the custom chips on the > 3000 so they could handle higher resolutions & bitplanes from the start. It isn't nearly that simple. Developing custom chips of that complexity is a major task, as you would have learned if you'd been paying attention here. Note that even the third-party folks have only come out with viable display options in the last year or so. Commodore, with a LOT of other things to do, and with compatibility a major requirement, should be cut some major slack here, IMHO. >6. Not advertising. I don't mean televison commercials. What about > nice advertisments in general computer magazines, or the mac strategy - put > ads in PC Magazine and other popular PC magazines. Have you been hiding in Timbuktu or something? I've seen plenty of Amiga ads. Not as many as for IBM or Apple, to be sure, but there's considerably more than none. >7. CDTV. I'd personally rather see better graphics capabilities, 68040 boards, And Commodore would like to see money more than better graphics capability. If CDTV takes off, it will be a major revenue source, and could possibly produce the funds for all that other stuff - just like the A500 supports the higher-end machines now. >Also, if 500s did come with hard drives, and more were sold, then they wouldn't >cost as much, would they? No, they wouldn't. They'd cost more, because of the hard drives. >Of course, Commodore does do some things right. For example, making the >computer and WB/KS in the first place. Personally, I feel WB is the best >single user OS there is; why not have the best personal computer there is to >go with it? As far as I'm concerned, they already do. >8 bit VGA quality graphics, with or without the custom chips support. Already got it - A2410. >Cheap Amiga with native hard drive - less than $1000 w/o monitor. Already got it - A500 plus A590. >Dump CDTV and put some R&D where it belongs - with the amiga. Already got it. You think all of those guys at West Chester work on CDTV? (I will be, but that's the job I signed up for). >Develope good relations with dealers and increase the number of dealers. Maybe. Certainly the best point you make here, as well as the most defensible. >Get Unix 2.0 out with a 68040 and have a cheap, fast unix box, that happens > to run AMIGADOS. (backdoor method of selling amigas) Already got it, except with a 68030. It's called the A3000UX. -- Mike Farren farren@well.sf.ca.us
mmoore@ux.acs.umn.edu (Malcolm Diallo Moore) (07/01/91)
In article <7595@vela.acs.oakland.edu$ lmbailey@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Laurana Bailey) writes:
$Gee Dan, that sounds a lot like what I was saying only I didn't offer
$any suggestions in my post. I hope you wore your asbestos clothing
$because judging from the number of flames I've gotten, Ron (From Life
$In Hell BBS) and the others should be trying to toast you sometime
$soon. If you'd listen to Ron and his likes you'd think there wasn't
$anything at all wrong at Commodore. It's the perfect computer company.
$
$Good luck.
$
$Laurana
$
Let me say something in all this:
I've gotten much flamage about my "get wit the program" post, that's ob-
vious. Well it may have seemed tacky, but I felt that's the only way
anyone would pull their heads out of all this technical bullsh*t and sit up
and take notice. One time before I posted something about an IBM portable
moving animations and got nothing but flamage and snide little remarks.
So I figured I'd try this route and suddenly I'm Marc Barrett. Or I worship
him. Or something like that.
Well motherf*** that. I don't know exactly who he is, and how prominent he
is with commodore, or if he even is affiliated with C= (some people told
me he was designing a new Ami chipset), but there are some things that he
says that are extremely valid and pertinent. So let me just sum it up:
1) People need to get wit the program and think up some new ideas for the Ami
(I'm not bein specific. Anything will do)
2) If you flame enough you will burn your own house down.
3) People with glass houses (they will be if we keep going like this) shouldn't
throw stones.
4) And all that.
Seeyaz.
Malcolm "Get Wit the Program!!" Moore
mmoore@ux.acs.umn.edu
Whaddaya want, a biscuit?