hychejw@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff W. Hyche) (02/20/91)
The word Prodigy in the computer world is both a scourge
and a god send. You say Prodigy to one computer user and he will
have visions of tin plated tyrants who censor every word they
don't like (some people use the word censor and some people use
edit, I use censor). Others think that they have broken the yoke
of hourly service charges and freed them from that bondage (not
including the $.25 mail charge). Personally I don't agree with
their policy of censorship or only porting their software to the
IBM or MAC so I will never use their service. But apparently some
Amiga owners do and that creates a demand for their service. But
they refuse to port the software to the Amiga.
Now I have a question. Why do we have to use their
software? I know they use special software that will only work
with Prodigy. But why does it have to be that way. I can count
at least a dozen PD or Shareware programs for the Amiga. So why
can't someone write a PD front end for Prodigy for the Amiga?
I think of no legal Prodigy could stop us from using our
on program to access their service. Since we would have to buy
their start-up package to get a password and access information,
they would get their money and we would get the service of
Prodigy. So as I said I see no legal way to stop us from writing
and using such a program. A PD program could be even better than
their own software for the Mac and IBM. From what I have heard
from some Prodigy owners you can't capture text from the screen to
a file, you can only print certain articles.
Such a program might be difficult to write. First you
would have to figure out the special codes that Prodigy use to
command both the system and the software. Next a program would
have to be written to strip the password and other information
from the original program. Since I don't know that much about how
Prodigy really works, or even that much about programming on the
Amiga (or I would try to write such a program myself) any takers?
--
// Jeff Hyche
There can be only one! \\ // Usenet: hychejw@infonode.ingr.com
\X/ Freenet: ap255@po.CWRU.Edudtiberio@csserv2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (02/22/91)
In article <1991Feb20.034644.14053@infonode.ingr.com> hychejw@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff W. Hyche) writes: > > > The word Prodigy in the computer world is both a scourge >and a god send. You say Prodigy to one computer user and he will >have visions of tin plated tyrants who censor every word they >don't like (some people use the word censor and some people use >edit, I use censor). Others think that they have broken the yoke >of hourly service charges and freed them from that bondage (not >including the $.25 mail charge). Personally I don't agree with >their policy of censorship or only porting their software to the >IBM or MAC so I will never use their service. But apparently some >Amiga owners do and that creates a demand for their service. But >they refuse to port the software to the Amiga. > Now I have a question. Why do we have to use their >software? I know they use special software that will only work >with Prodigy. But why does it have to be that way. I can count >at least a dozen PD or Shareware programs for the Amiga. So why >can't someone write a PD front end for Prodigy for the Amiga? > I think of no legal Prodigy could stop us from using our >on program to access their service. Since we would have to buy >their start-up package to get a password and access information, >they would get their money and we would get the service of >Prodigy. So as I said I see no legal way to stop us from writing >and using such a program. A PD program could be even better than >their own software for the Mac and IBM. From what I have heard >from some Prodigy owners you can't capture text from the screen to >a file, you can only print certain articles. > Such a program might be difficult to write. First you >would have to figure out the special codes that Prodigy use to >command both the system and the software. Next a program would >have to be written to strip the password and other information >from the original program. Since I don't know that much about how >Prodigy really works, or even that much about programming on the >Amiga (or I would try to write such a program myself) any takers? >-- > // Jeff Hyche > There can be only one! \\ // Usenet: hychejw@infonode.ingr.com > \X/ Freenet: ap255@po.CWRU.Edu To do this testing you will need a copy of Prodigy on a Mac/IBM, and then hook it up to an Amiga (well, actually any computer will do). I would write a program that reads in all of the codes when transmitted by the other program, as menus or options are selected. Then, call up prodigy and enter the codes by hand to see what the Prodigy response codes are. Maybe this would be easier if an Amiga multitasked an IBM running Prodigy, and an Amiga program were written to intercept all data that is transmitted over the serial port. DavidTiberio SUNYStonyBrook2-3605 AMIGA TotoProductions DDDMEN
king@motcid.UUCP (Steven King) (02/22/91)
In article <1991Feb21.170825.5994@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@csserv2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes: |In article <1991Feb20.034644.14053@infonode.ingr.com> hychejw@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff W. Hyche) writes: |> Now I have a question. Why do we have to use their |>software? I know they use special software that will only work |>with Prodigy. But why does it have to be that way. I can count |>at least a dozen PD or Shareware programs for the Amiga. So why |>can't someone write a PD front end for Prodigy for the Amiga? | | To do this testing you will need a copy of Prodigy on a Mac/IBM, and then |hook it up to an Amiga (well, actually any computer will do). I would write |a program that reads in all of the codes when transmitted by the other program, |as menus or options are selected. Then, call up prodigy and enter the codes |by hand to see what the Prodigy response codes are. Maybe this would be easier |if an Amiga multitasked an IBM running Prodigy, and an Amiga program were |written to intercept all data that is transmitted over the serial port. A protocol analyzer would come in darned handy here, as would the specs for the Teletext protocol that Prodigy is based off of. (I could be misremembering the name, but Prodigy's protocol is derived from an earlier graphics/text protocol that was in limited use. They may have added some extensions, but it's not really a new and unique protocol.) I think the big problem we're up against is that most people with the resources and skill to pull this off haven't any desire to use Prodigy, and most people with the desire to use Prodigy haven't got the resources and skill to program a front end to it. I thought about trying it once, but I fall into the first category... -- ---------------------------------------------------+--------------------------- Space is big. Space is dark. | Steven King It's hard to find. A place to park. | Motorola Cellular Burma Shave. | ...uunet!motcid!king
hychejw@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff W. Hyche) (02/25/91)
thad@public.BTR.COM (Thaddeus P. Floryan) writes: >Do YOU really want to pay to use a "service" that usurps the bottom 33% of >YOUR screen for paid commercials? If you wrote your own program would it be leagal to screen out the bottom 33% of your screeen from these commercials? Would it be moral? >Or for a "service" that CENSORS its subscribers? Nope not I. I use my Amiga mainly to collect informantion. I have found no use for their service, I was just wondering if it would be possible to write such a program. Would it be leagal to use such a program for shareware? >Suggest you research the subject some more before clamoring for something >that no SANE person will use (especially on an Amiga (we can excuse the MS-DOS >weenies their transgressions :-)). I agree. >Thad Floryan [ thad@btr.com (OR) {decwrl, mips, fernwood}!btr!thad ] -- // Jeff Hyche There can be only one! \\ // Usenet: hychejw@infonode.ingr.com \X/ Freenet: ap255@po.CWRU.Edu
m0154@tnc.UUCP (GUY GARNETT) (02/26/91)
I used to have the prodigy software running on my wife's IBM PC-XT. One of the interesting problems a 'PD' prodigy program would have to do is address their auto-patch scheme. Ocassionally, the prodigy service downloads patches to the software (I presume they have some facility for determining which version you are executing, IBM or Mac). Hackers around here have hypothesized (from observing the software in action on a PC/XT, 286PC, and Macs) that it is written in compiled BASIC or some other threaded, interpreted language. Therefore, the MAC and IBM versions may actually be the same code, with a resident interpreter on each machine. Hacking a Prodigy-alike would require lots of work. If nothing else, determining the communications protocol would involve a serial data snooper, and lots and lots of time. The local hackers beleive that the thing operates by sending action tokens (probably 2 bytes) followed by one or more data tokens (probably also two bytes) for each screen object (polygon, circle, text, etc) to be drawn. The local software seems to transmit back data in some type of burst mode (as you fill up each text entry gadget, for example). Other than the diffuculty of determining the protocol, it sould be leagal to distribute such a thing, as long as each user has purchased a Prodigy kit. Wildstar
kurt@tc.fluke.COM (Kurt Guntheroth) (02/27/91)
I hear that Prodigy uses NAPLPS, an ANSI standard for videotext that
virtually no one else is using. If this is true, the standard can be had
cheaply from ANSI. There was also an extensive Byte magazine article about
it in 1983 (six parts).
1. Does anyone have a working NAPLPS interpreter?
2. Does Prodigy ALWAYS display the ads in the same part of the screen? It
would be sooooo easy to not update that part of the screen, based on my
cursory inspection of NAPLPS.
3. It would still be problematical to extract useful data from the NAPLPS
character stream for storage.
4. Do you sign an agreement not to reverse-engineer the byte stream when
you get Prodigy? (probably shouldn't say this too loud...)
5. It can't possibly be a crime to disable the commercials. Otherwise we'd
be a nation of jailbirds (what with remote controls, vcr's and all).
Could there be a revenge more ultimate than building an ad-free prodigy
display for the amiga and then making the sources available to PC and mac
users?dannie@coplex.uucp (Dannie Gregoire) (02/27/91)
I bitch to prodigy about once a month about when they are going to do a port to the Amiga. I call their 1-800 number and tell them I own an Amiga and want to know when they are going to port it. They put me on hold for several minutes to figure out what the hell I am asking for, then say "I don't know." One time I was feeling particularly irate and demanded to talk to someone about the port. Eventually, I got in touch with the head programmer at Prodigy (his name escapes me at the moment). His main contingency is that they "do not have the finances to do the Amiga port at the moment and that a port in the future is not out of the question" I have used prodigy and have found it to be not that bad of a service. It does however have a long way to go before it matures though. It needs some more productive activities word processors, etc to be useful for the long term. As it is right now, it gets to be VERY boring after you use it for a while. The ads are really not all that anoying and are quite nice if you enjoy junk mail like I do ;-). Most ads have a send me more info box that you can select. The company's brochures will automatically be sent to you via your address that prodigy has. A lot of the ads will send you free discount coupons etc. Most of the ads do have this junk mail feature or let you order the product online. The $.25 per letter charge is bull shit though. It hardly costs prodigy money to copy a file from one place on their computer to another! Prodigy will send you a FREE 30 account with their software. So if you are going to reverse engineer it you might as well get it for free. And if you dont like the service keep the disks and erase the software. Order several copies and you'll never have to buy a disk again ;-) Prodigy FREE 30 day trail -- 1-800-776-3552 Ext. 353 They will ask for some such number which appears on their mailer brochure but just tell them you heard about them from a friend. And while you're on the phone bitch about the Amiga port ;-) +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Dannie J. Gregoire \\\\//// dannie@coplex | | Copper Electronics Inc. ////\\\\ !uunet!coplex!dannie | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
aru@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Sriram Ramkrishna) (02/27/91)
In <10329@dog.ee.lbl.gov> jnmoyne@lbl.gov (Jean-Noel MOYNE) writes: > Sure, I can't see any trial going on on that charge !! There's no law >forcing you to watch commercials (yet (-:). But this for sure would piss >off prodigy !!! (hehe, great though: you don't port the software to the >Amiga ? Well, ok, we're gonna to our own version that skips commercials, >sure it would be funny!). Well, I have already done it. I have devised a comprehensive hardware unit that will block out all of the commericials on prodigy. It's very simple and cheap. In fact, any beginning programmer or non programmer can do it. You go to K-mart or your favorite convenience store and get a couple pieces of duct tape and then you block off the lower section of the screen. Voila! No commercials! No problems yet! ;-) Once again, the american consumer has triumphed against the joint corporate heads of Sears and IBM. Sri If you like, I can post this wonderous hardware patch to the net if you wish. :-)
aa377@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ken Kopin) (02/27/91)
I have the definitive answer on blocking the ad's in software!
Just have a toggle that puts up a black window/screen over the bottom
fourth of the screen. Viola! No Ad's! (Sorta Like The Hardware Hack
mentioned earlier, but not as sticky :-)
Or, better yet, put a little IFF file down there, like
"CENSORED"
Ken Kopin
--
Om Pappa Chucka Mucka Nommo Sing Gow, |Internet: AA377@Cleveland.Freenet.Edu
Ding Gabba Lonna Wannie Gummo Ching Pow.|Bitnet:
Hebby Gabba Lou-a Comma Gemma Sing Gee, | AA377%Cleveland.Freenet.Edu@cunyvm
Om Mamma Chucka Manna One Is Now Three. |Disclaimer: I didn't do it.hychejw@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff W. Hyche) (02/27/91)
kurt@tc.fluke.COM (Kurt Guntheroth) writes: >Could there be a revenge more ultimate than building an ad-free prodigy >display for the amiga and then making the sources available to PC and mac >users? I have tought of this. Make sure your can open a capture buffer to a file and you can print out anything you want. Have a block out feature for the ads and you have a prefect program. -- // Jeff Hyche There can be only one! \\ // Usenet: hychejw@infonode.ingr.com \X/ Freenet: ap255@po.CWRU.Edu
pwg8482@isc.rit.edu (P.W. Gousios ) (02/28/91)
>> 5. It can't possibly be a crime to disable the commercials.
They probably don't want to port to the amiga since If you made the program run
in a custom screen, you could always move the screen down so that
the lower portion was off the monitor. Why write a program to get rid of the
commercials when the OS/hardware handles it simply for you.
Pete G
pwg8482@ultb.isc.rit.edukurt@tc.fluke.COM (Kurt Guntheroth) (03/01/91)
> Why write a program to get rid of the > commercials when the OS/hardware handles it simply for you. Because it improves performance if you don't have to figure out how to render those areas of the display. Either it ups the effective baud rate (biggest win) or else it makes multitasking more friendly (smaller win).