ben@epmooch.UUCP (Rev. Ben A. Mesander) (04/14/91)
>In article <791.280868f6@zodiac.rutgers.edu> amatthews@zodiac.rutgers.edu writes: >I think Jr-Comm is the nicest term out there, but unfortunately I >find that I am unable to use it. The reason for this is that I >use a term program mostly to get on the nets, and whenever I want >to transfer something from the VAX that I have an account on to >my Amiga, I have to use kermit protocal. I know. I'm in a similar situation with my Prime mini. I tried JRComm 0.94 long ago. It had the *coolest* zmodem I had ever seen, but I use kermit too much for it to be useful. I *really* liked JRComm though, and as soon as he puts kermit in, I'll grab that version and give it a whirl. If I like it, he gets a little richer :-)... seriously, I don't even know if the latest jrcomm has XPR support. If it does, then you and I can run kermit. >There is an Xmodem transfer >system on the VAX, but it was last updated in 1984 and works at most >10% of the time. Any chance Jack R. will ever add kermit to Jr-Comm? >Are you reading this Jack? Oh by the way, why is kermit so slow? >It usually transfers binary files at half the speed of Xmodem. Well, if you are dealing with a mini that likes 7-bit protocols (my Prime does, I'm not sure about your VAX), kermit escapes every byte with the high bit set with a prefix byte. There's some other characters it likes to escape also (XON/XOFF, etc). Most kermits also use a smaller packet size than Xmodem as well. Kermit is slow because it seems to be an absolute lowest-common-denominator protocol. It's possible to write a kermit for almost any machine, no matter how brain-damaged. The same cannot be said of X/Y/Z modem protocols. Jack, if you add kermit support, do it right, like you did with Zmodem. I need support for manipulating a kermit server on the other end as well as the interactive commands (i.e. seperate "get" and "recieve" commands, and "bye" and "finish" commands). Pretty much those and "send" are the minimal kermit commands that I must have. VLT doesn't support all these, forcing me to use an ancient VT100 program to do terminal emulation. I'm gonna have to try a newer version of VLT as well, I'm sure... > --Alex -- | ben@epmooch.UUCP (Ben Mesander) | "Cash is more important than | | ben%servalan.UUCP@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu | your mother." - Al Shugart, | | !chinet!uokmax!servalan!epmooch!ben | CEO, Seagate Technologies |
amatthews@zodiac.rutgers.edu (04/14/91)
I think Jr-Comm is the nicest term out there, but unfortunately I
find that I am unable to use it. The reason for this is that I
use a term program mostly to get on the nets, and whenever I want
to transfer something from the VAX that I have an account on to
my Amiga, I have to use kermit protocal. There is an Xmodem transfer
system on the VAX, but it was last updated in 1984 and works at most
10% of the time. Any chance Jack R. will ever add kermit to Jr-Comm?
Are you reading this Jack? Oh by the way, why is kermit so slow?
It usually transfers binary files at half the speed of Xmodem.
--Alexjprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) (04/15/91)
amatthews@zodiac.rutgers.edu writes: >10% of the time. Any chance Jack R. will ever add kermit to Jr-Comm? >Are you reading this Jack? Oh by the way, why is kermit so slow? >It usually transfers binary files at half the speed of Xmodem. Yes, Kermit will be added once support for XPR is available. I'm not all that familiar with Kermit since the UNIX site I have an account on has ZMODEM implemented. Kermit's speed (or lack of) comes from it dealing to the lowest common denominator, which is 7 bits. All 8 bit data is escaped from what I understand. I'm not well enough acquainted with the protocol to know if it supports full 8 bit transfers, which would speed it up a good bit, I should think that it does though, if both ends can do it. Oh yeah, it uses a small block size too, smaller than XMODEM's 128 byte size. Maybe someone with more knowledge of Kermit can clear this up a bit. -jack-
ben@epmooch.UUCP (Rev. Ben A. Mesander) (04/15/91)
>In article <1991Apr16.032313.10991@rock.concert.net> barber@jazz.concert.net (Scott Barber) writes: > >The version of VLT that I have (5.034) supports long packet lengths >(I've been doing transfers with block sizes of c.1000) and also the >standard server commands (FINISH, BYE, GET and SEND). GET and RECIEVE? I need both... >Scott -- | ben@epmooch.UUCP (Ben Mesander) | "Cash is more important than | | ben%servalan.UUCP@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu | your mother." - Al Shugart, | | !chinet!uokmax!servalan!epmooch!ben | CEO, Seagate Technologies |
ben@epmooch.UUCP (Rev. Ben A. Mesander) (04/15/91)
>In article <91105.200811WGLP09@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> WGLP09@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: >Actually, Kermit uses all 8 bits when the connection is an 8-bit one. Yes, but if you have an 8-bit link, you ought to use Zmodem :-) Seriously, I only use kermit when I have 7-bit links to contend with. > Willy. -- | ben@epmooch.UUCP (Ben Mesander) | "Cash is more important than | | ben%servalan.UUCP@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu | your mother." - Al Shugart, | | !chinet!uokmax!servalan!epmooch!ben | CEO, Seagate Technologies |
barber@jazz.concert.net (Scott Barber) (04/16/91)
The version of VLT that I have (5.034) supports long packet lengths (I've been doing transfers with block sizes of c.1000) and also the standard server commands (FINISH, BYE, GET and SEND). Kermit isn't very elegant (never has been), but it is indeed a workhorse enabling transfers b/w almost anything and anything else (if you can ever get the @#$# parms set right! ;-) Scott
WGLP09@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (04/16/91)
VLT (actually xprkermit) *does* support all those commands, such as
GET from a remote in server mode. It certainly supports either BYE or
FINISH (there's some confusion about what these are exactly supposed to
do), and I believe the xprkermit that's currently in beta supports both.
Willy.
----------
Willy Langeveld - Bitnet: WGLP09 @ SLACVM - BIX: langeveldWGLP09@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (04/16/91)
Actually, Kermit uses all 8 bits when the connection is an 8-bit one.
And long-packet Kermit is quite fast. Windowing Kermit is even better,
of course, but I don't think we have that in the immediate future for
the Amiga (Steve?).
Willy.
----------
Willy Langeveld - Bitnet: WGLP09 @ SLACVM - BIX: langeveldsirotto@MAPLE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU (Michael Cerrato) (04/17/91)
In article <1991Apr16.032313.10991@rock.concert.net>, barber@jazz.concert.net (Scott Barber) writes: >standard server commands (FINISH, BYE, GET and SEND). Please someone, tell me how to use the FINISH command in VLT (I think I'm using 4.824 and Kermit 1.5 beta). I don't know what the offical defination of the BYE command is, but at our site, it quits the server and logges you out. ___ __ |\ |\ | / \ Internet: sirotto%maple.decnet@pine.circa.ufl.edu | \ | \ | / ...!uunet!uflorida!pine.circa.ufl.edu!sirotto%maple.decnet | \ | \ |--< Bitnet: "sirotto%maple.decnet%pine.circa.ufl.edu"@NERVM | \| \|___\____/ SirOtto -- Gallant Knight of a rather large, squarish | Michael E. Cerrato table someplace in the West Panhandle of Florida. | University of Florida
barber@jazz.concert.net (Scott Barber) (04/17/91)
In article <ben.6020@epmooch.UUCP> ben@epmooch.UUCP (Rev. Ben A. Mesander) writes: >>In article <1991Apr16.032313.10991@rock.concert.net> barber@jazz.concert.net (Scott Barber) writes: >> >>The version of VLT that I have (5.034) supports long packet lengths >>(I've been doing transfers with block sizes of c.1000) and also the >>standard server commands (FINISH, BYE, GET and SEND). > >GET and RECIEVE? I need both... > Well, you may know this, I'm not sure, but typically GET refers to server mode, and RECEIVE to non-server mode. In VLT, things are organized in such a way that once server (or non-server) mode is determined, the same menu command (Send File or Receive File) is used. What it boils down to is that, yes, VLT supports server mode uploads and downloads, and also non-server mode uploads and downloads. Regarding Willy's comment about confusion with BYE and FINISH, I've always understood FINISH to mean stopping the host's server mode and leaving you at the Kermit prompt, and BYE to mean exiting server mode and then logging you off. I know that FINISH works properly in VLT, and I haven't yet tested BYE, because I usually don't want it! Scott
bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce D. Becker) (04/18/91)
In article <791.280868f6@zodiac.rutgers.edu> amatthews@zodiac.rutgers.edu writes: |I think Jr-Comm is the nicest term out there, but unfortunately I |find that I am unable to use it. The reason for this is that I |use a term program mostly to get on the nets, and whenever I want |to transfer something from the VAX that I have an account on to |my Amiga, I have to use kermit protocal. There is an Xmodem transfer |system on the VAX, but it was last updated in 1984 and works at most |10% of the time. Any chance Jack R. will ever add kermit to Jr-Comm? |Are you reading this Jack? Oh by the way, why is kermit so slow? |It usually transfers binary files at half the speed of Xmodem. Actually Handshake is the nicest term out there 8^). It is a really excellent VT220 emulator. It supports Kermit just fine. Kermit has 2 forms - the default, small packets with no window, is pretty slow since it waits for verification that the last packet was OK b4 sending the next. Most Kermit clones don't implement the windowed version of the protocol as it is more complex to get right... Handshake is shareware - it's available from the author Eric Haberfellner, "eric@haberfellner.uucp"... Cheers, -- ,u, Bruce Becker Toronto, Ontario a /i/ Internet: bdb@becker.UUCP, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu `\o\-e UUCP: ...!utai!mnetor!becker!bdb _< /_ "Waking up is hard to do" - Neil Sedated
ben@epmooch.UUCP (Rev. Ben A. Mesander) (04/18/91)
>In article <1242@faatcrl.UUCP> jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes: >ben@epmooch.UUCP (Rev. Ben A. Mesander) writes: > >>Jack, if you add kermit support, do it right, like you did with Zmodem. > > Geez, you *had* to say that, didn't you! ;-) Well, I was being a bit arrogant, wasn't I? But kermit is the only reason I don't use JRComm. I tried 0.94 and loved it except for no VT100 or kermit support. I understand that it now has VT100. > Well, will XPR suffice until I can come up to speed with the protcol >and all its oddities? From what I've glanced at, it makes ZMODEM look >tame... I think XPR is a great idea regardless. You know, I may be one of the last people who has to use kermit, so perhaps it shouldn't be your top priority. I wouldn't need all the mondo windowing kermit mods and such. Do you have the kermit protocol docs from Columbia? I've programmed a simple kermit implementation in BASIC on an old HP desktop computer. > -jack- -- | ben@epmooch.UUCP (Ben Mesander) | "Cash is more important than | | ben%servalan.UUCP@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu | your mother." - Al Shugart, | | !chinet!uokmax!servalan!epmooch!ben | CEO, Seagate Technologies |
kendrix_j@mims.enet.dec.com (John R. Kendrix) (04/18/91)
In article <791.280868f6@zodiac.rutgers.edu>, amatthews@zodiac.rutgers.edu writes... >I think Jr-Comm is the nicest term out there, but unfortunately I >find that I am unable to use it. The reason for this is that I >use a term program mostly to get on the nets, and whenever I want >to transfer something from the VAX that I have an account on to >my Amiga, I have to use kermit protocal. There is an Xmodem transfer >system on the VAX, but it was last updated in 1984 and works at most >10% of the time. Any chance Jack R. will ever add kermit to Jr-Comm? >Are you reading this Jack? Oh by the way, why is kermit so slow? >It usually transfers binary files at half the speed of Xmodem. > > --Alex Alex, I would suggest that you upgrade your communications program on the Vax! There's a version of Zmodem which is available through anonymous FTP which runs just fine and dandy with VLT, JRcomm and other comm programs. Check the VAX FTP sites, I'm sure that one of them has it. Kermit is a real dog for transfering files. Reason being that it transmits it's packets in 128 byte blocks. Xmodem I believe uses a bit larger package, while Zmodem will use 1024 byte pages for transmitting data. Cheers, JK ******************************************************************************** * John R. Kendrix * Disclaimers: The opinions expressed here * * Digital Equipment Corporation * aren't likely to be claimed * * Customer Support Center * by me, much less my employer. * * Atlanta Georgia * * * Phone: 404-343-1739 * E-Mail: Kendrix_J@mims.enet.dec.com * ********************************************************************************
jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) (04/18/91)
ben@epmooch.UUCP (Rev. Ben A. Mesander) writes: >Jack, if you add kermit support, do it right, like you did with Zmodem. Geez, you *had* to say that, didn't you! ;-) Well, will XPR suffice until I can come up to speed with the protcol and all its oddities? From what I've glanced at, it makes ZMODEM look tame... -jack-
barber@jazz.concert.net (Scott Barber) (04/18/91)
In article <22147@shlump.nac.dec.com> kendrix_j@mims.enet.dec.com (John R. Kendrix) writes: >Kermit is a real dog for transfering files. Reason being that it transmits >it's packets in 128 byte blocks. Xmodem I believe uses a bit larger package, >while Zmodem will use 1024 byte pages for transmitting data. > Well, this WAS a problem until they came up with larger packet-size options. The first I was aware of it was a couple of years ago when I was using mostly IBM-type machines. Now, the external Kermit protocol available for Amigas supports longer packet-sizes. The problem is in being sure to set the packet size on both sending and receiving machines. Sometimes, the exact commands for doing this aren't immediately clear! Hope this helps, Scott
sirotto@MAPLE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU (Michael Cerrato) (04/19/91)
In article <28053@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU>, sirotto@MAPLE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU (Michael Cerrato) writes: >Please someone, tell me how to use the FINISH command in VLT (I think >I'm using 4.824 and Kermit 1.5 beta). I don't know what the offical >defination of the BYE command is, but at our site, it quits the >server and logges you out. Okay, I found the finish command. Next question: Has anyone been able to sucessfully use VLT and the external Kermit protocol through a TELNET connection to upload and download files? I've tried in the server mode and in the "regular" mode and can't seem to do anything. VLT just sits there . . . Maybe we just have a bum version of Kermit at our site . . . ___ __ |\ |\ | / \ Internet: sirotto%maple.decnet@pine.circa.ufl.edu | \ | \ | / ...!uunet!uflorida!pine.circa.ufl.edu!sirotto%maple.decnet | \ | \ |--< Bitnet: "sirotto%maple.decnet%pine.circa.ufl.edu"@NERVM | \| \|___\____/ SirOtto -- Gallant Knight of a rather large, squarish | Michael E. Cerrato table someplace in the West Panhandle of Florida. | University of Florida
ridder@elvira.enet.dec.com (Hans Ridder) (04/20/91)
In article <28053@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> SIROTTO%oak.decnet@pine.circa.ufl.edu writes: >I don't know what the offical defination of the BYE command is, but at >our site, it quits the server and logges you out. That's exactly the offical definition of the Kermit BYE command. BYE exits the server *and* logs you out, FINISH just exits the server. It seems that many communications programs get this wrong. >SirOtto -- Gallant Knight of a rather large, squarish | Michael E. Cerrato -hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hans-Gabriel Ridder Digital Equipment Corporation ridder@elvira.enet.dec.com Customer Support Center ...decwrl!elvira.enet!ridder Colorado Springs, CO
crazyrat@disk.uucp (@jap) (04/20/91)
In article <22147@shlump.nac.dec.com>, kendrix_j@mims.enet.dec.com (John R. Kendrix) writes: > > In article <791.280868f6@zodiac.rutgers.edu>, amatthews@zodiac.rutgers.edu writes... > >I think Jr-Comm is the nicest term out there, but unfortunately I > >find that I am unable to use it. The reason for this is that I > >use a term program mostly to get on the nets, and whenever I want > > Kermit is a real dog for transfering files. Reason being that it transmits > it's packets in 128 byte blocks. Xmodem I believe uses a bit larger package, > while Zmodem will use 1024 byte pages for transmitting data. > Unfortunately for a mass of us, Zmodem is not an option on our vax. It seems that more of the Vax installations these days are operating with an ISN network developed by AT&T. This ISN network does not conform to standards and thus does not do nice things to 'sliding packet' protocol programs (such as Z,X,Y modem). Kermit, btw, has had no problems in these aspects. Our version of Vax Kermit has no problem sending and receiving at 1k packets and there is a version on our IBM 3090 that supports 2k and 3k packets. I'm waiting patiently for these to be added (hopefully) to the vax. Otherwise, I sit and wait... @jap ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- /The waiting pickle/ -- Joel C. Justen Crazyrat Productions Ltd. CRAZYRAT@DISK.UUCP JCJUST01@ulkyvx.BITNET
amatthews@zodiac.rutgers.edu (04/23/91)
Some very nice person told me a while ago that all I had to do was get Zmodem for the ol' vax, and it was available via FTP. I've looked around quite a bit, and have been unable to find it. Could someone please tell me where I can find Zmodem for the vax? Thanx --Alex
goehring@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Scott Goehring) (04/24/91)
In article <1991Apr19.230557.6361@disk.uucp> crazyrat@disk.uucp (@jap) writes:
Unfortunately for a mass of us, Zmodem is not an option on our vax.
It seems that more of the Vax installations these days are
operating with an ISN network developed by AT&T. This ISN network
does not conform to standards and thus does not do nice things to
'sliding packet' protocol programs (such as Z,X,Y modem). Kermit,
btw, has had no problems in these aspects.
we have an ISN terminal switch at purdue. zmodem works perfectly fine
over it. true, x and y don't, but z will, assuming your z is
reasonably robust. i have downloaded many megabytes over the ISN,
both on dialups and over a DOV modem.
to be specific, the ISN is a 7-bit non-transparent (eats DC1 and DC3)
terminal switch. zmodem, however, knows how to deal with such systems
and does so quite nicely.
--
Help stamp out vi in our lifetime!
Scott Goehring goehring@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
goehring@gnu.ai.mit.edu
"Then go cast an astral spell on yourself, ok?"kendrix_j@mims.enet.dec.com (John R. Kendrix) (04/27/91)
In article <812.28144681@zodiac.rutgers.edu>, amatthews@zodiac.rutgers.edu writes... >Some very nice person told me a while ago that all I had to do was >get Zmodem for the ol' vax, and it was available via FTP. I've looked >around quite a bit, and have been unable to find it. Could someone >please tell me where I can find Zmodem for the vax? > > Thanx > --Alex In article <1991Apr21.071107.18710@ni.umd.edu>, mike@UC780.UMD.EDU (Mike Santangelo) writes: > Where can I find ZMODEM for VMS? This is available by ANON ftp from vms.huji.ac.il PUBLIC$:[COMMUNICATION] -- ________________________________________________________________________ -- Chuck Forsberg's rz/sz for VAX/VMS has been updated. The updated file was obtained directly from Chuck's BBS and is now available from WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL [26.2.0.74]. Directory: PD1:<MISC.VAXVMS> File name: RZSZ9104.TLB Function: X/Y/Zmodem for VAX/VMS File type: VMS Text LIBrary This is a binary file which should be stored as a 512 byte FIXED record file with carriage control NONE on VMS. To extract files from rzsz.tlb, issue the following DCL commands: $ LIB/EXTRACT=EXTRACT_TLB^COM/OUTPUT=EXTRACT_TLB.COM rzsz.tlb $ @EXTRACT_TLB rzsz/exit Keith -- Keith Petersen Maintainer of SIMTEL20's MSDOS, MISC & CP/M archives [IP address 26.2.0.74] Internet: w8sdz@WSMR-SIMTEL20.Army.Mil or w8sdz@vela.acs.oakland.edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND ********************************* Hope this helps! JK ******************************************************************************** * John R. Kendrix * Disclaimers: The opinions expressed here * * Digital Equipment Corporation * aren't likely to be claimed * * * by me, much less my employer. * * * * * Phone: 404-343-1739 * E-Mail: Kendrix_J@mims.enet.dec.com * ********************************************************************************
rick@tmiuv0.uucp (04/29/91)
In article <28053@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU>, sirotto@MAPLE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU (Michael Cerrato) writes: > In article <1991Apr16.032313.10991@rock.concert.net>, barber@jazz.concert.net (Scott Barber) writes: >>standard server commands (FINISH, BYE, GET and SEND). > > Please someone, tell me how to use the FINISH command in VLT (I think > I'm using 4.824 and Kermit 1.5 beta). I don't know what the offical > defination of the BYE command is, but at our site, it quits the > server and logges you out. > ___ __ > |\ |\ | / \ Internet: sirotto%maple.decnet@pine.circa.ufl.edu > | \ | \ | / ...!uunet!uflorida!pine.circa.ufl.edu!sirotto%maple.decnet > | \ | \ |--< Bitnet: "sirotto%maple.decnet%pine.circa.ufl.edu"@NERVM > | \| \|___\____/ > > SirOtto -- Gallant Knight of a rather large, squarish | Michael E. Cerrato > table someplace in the West Panhandle of Florida. | University of Florida Well, essentially, the "finish" command is supposed to stop the remote Kermit server and return you to its command prompt. The "bye" command is supposed to stop the remote Kermit server AND log you out. Sounds like your version is running correctly. The most common variant to this standard are Kermits for VAXen running VMS. There, either BYE or FINISH merely stops the kermit server. You have to manually QUIT the remote Kermit and manually logout. -- .--------------------------------------------------------------------------. |[- O] Rick Stevens | | ? EMail: uunet!zardoz!tmiuv0!rick -or- uunet!zardoz!xyclone!sysop | | V (rick@tmi.com) (sysop@ssssc.com) | | CIS: 75006,1355 (75006.1355@compuserve.com from Internet) | | | | "If it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid!" | `--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
rick@tmiuv0.uucp (04/29/91)
In article <22147@shlump.nac.dec.com>, kendrix_j@mims.enet.dec.com (John R. Kendrix) writes: [...] > Kermit is a real dog for transfering files. Reason being that it transmits > it's packets in 128 byte blocks. Xmodem I believe uses a bit larger package, > while Zmodem will use 1024 byte pages for transmitting data. Actually, Kermit normally defaults to 92-byte packets (user-selectable) and XModem (aka Christenson protocol) used 128-byte packets (and padded the last one out to 128 bytes if it was shorter). YModem is XModem with multiple file transfers. ZModem uses 1K packets, as you said. > > Cheers, > > JK > > ******************************************************************************** > * John R. Kendrix * Disclaimers: The opinions expressed here * > * Digital Equipment Corporation * aren't likely to be claimed * > * Customer Support Center * by me, much less my employer. * > * Atlanta Georgia * * > * Phone: 404-343-1739 * E-Mail: Kendrix_J@mims.enet.dec.com * > ******************************************************************************** -- .--------------------------------------------------------------------------. |[- O] Rick Stevens | | ? EMail: uunet!zardoz!tmiuv0!rick -or- uunet!zardoz!xyclone!sysop | | V (rick@tmi.com) (sysop@ssssc.com) | | CIS: 75006,1355 (75006.1355@compuserve.com from Internet) | | | | "If it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid!" | `--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
amatthews@zodiac.rutgers.edu (05/03/91)
As far as I could tell, the archive Vlt.zoo on FF451 (128.174.5.59) is corrupted. I ftp'd and downloaded it several different ways, but the last 56K of the file were always missing. Zoo did manage to extract everything except the VLT program itself however, so I had all the necessary libraries, fonts, etc. Then I just FTP'd the updated VLT and xprzmodem.library (zmodem) from a20.larc.nasa.gov, put it all on a disk, and it works great.