robert@madnix.UUCP (Robert Moldenhauer) (01/15/91)
Hi,
Could someone post real numbers of personal computer sales (Amiga, Apple,
Dos, Atari). We have had some rediculous debates on our club BBS with someone
even claiming the ST was the largest personal computer in Europe. How many
Amigae were sold last year? I want real numbers, nt Ataris "Billions and
Billions".
--
Robert Moldenhauer One People
U.S. Snail: 30 Lathrop St., One Planet
Madison, Wis 53705 USA Please!
BITNET: rmoldenhauer@WISCMACC INTERNET: rmoldenhauer@VMS.MACC.WISC.EDUes1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (01/17/91)
In article <1694@madnix.UUCP> robert@madnix.UUCP (Robert Moldenhauer) writes: >Hi, >Could someone post real numbers of personal computer sales (Amiga, Apple, >Dos, Atari). We have had some rediculous debates on our club BBS with someone >even claiming the ST was the largest personal computer in Europe. How many >Amigae were sold last year? I want real numbers, nt Ataris "Billions and >Billions". > Here's the best I can do. Commodore officially announced the sale of the 2 millionth Amiga in October. We have just passed the Christmas season. Over 7/1/89--6/30/90 there were 550,000 A500s sold, and sales are reportedly up 20%. I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that there are close to 2.5 million Amigas currently sold. As to Apple and IBM, I read a report that the Mac will surpass the 7 million mark in 1992 and that MS-DOS clones will be well over the 80 million mark in 1992. >-- >Robert Moldenhauer One People >U.S. Snail: 30 Lathrop St., One Planet > Madison, Wis 53705 USA Please! >BITNET: rmoldenhauer@WISCMACC INTERNET: rmoldenhauer@VMS.MACC.WISC.EDU -- Ethan "What a waste it is to lose one's mind, or not to have a mind... How true that is." -- Dan Quayle, of course. Our beloved Vice President. It's just too easy!
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (01/17/91)
In article <1694@madnix.UUCP> robert@madnix.UUCP (Robert Moldenhauer) writes: >Hi, >Could someone post real numbers of personal computer sales (Amiga, Apple, >Dos, Atari). We have had some rediculous debates on our club BBS with someone >even claiming the ST was the largest personal computer in Europe. How many >Amigae were sold last year? I want real numbers, nt Ataris "Billions and >Billions". Sorry that I can't serve with exactly these numbers. The TOTAL number of Amigas (all models, sales since 1985) has now passed the 2 million limit in November. How many of this was in 1990 I don't know. From what I heard here in Germany and from other European countries, Amiga might sell approximately double as many machines as Atari, but admitted, this is a rough guess. It is at least two years ago that Atari sold more machines than Amiga, as far as I heard. But back in those times that was true because of Atari's lower prices. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
estdwha@warwick.ac.uk (CrisP) (01/18/91)
In article <1694@madnix.UUCP> robert@madnix.UUCP (Robert Moldenhauer) writes: >Hi, >Could someone post real numbers of personal computer sales (Amiga, Apple, >Dos, Atari). We have had some rediculous debates on our club BBS with someone ^^^ What's a "Dos"? I've never heard of that kind of computer/manufacturer? >even claiming the ST was the largest personal computer in Europe. How many >Amigae were sold last year? I want real numbers, nt Ataris "Billions and >Billions". > >-- >Robert Moldenhauer One People >U.S. Snail: 30 Lathrop St., One Planet > Madison, Wis 53705 USA Please! >BITNET: rmoldenhauer@WISCMACC INTERNET: rmoldenhauer@VMS.MACC.WISC.EDU
MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (01/19/91)
Two million Amigas have been sold by Commodore. 1.5 million of them are in Europe and the other 500,000 in North America. I believe that the second million were sold in just this past year. As for the ST, its sales are dead in America and I believe Amiga is overtaking it in Europe. /Mark "Remixed for Common Household Appliances" Sachs - MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu\ |DISCLAIMER: These are all YOUR opinions, strangely enough. || // AMIGA || | "Can I speak to you privately, Doctor?" "All right..." || \X/ Power || \== "Have you got a DEATH WISH?!!" -- Romana & The Doctor, Warrior's Gate ==/
spence@cbmvax.commodore.com (Spencer Shanson) (01/19/91)
In article <1991Jan18.132404.17350@warwick.ac.uk> estdwha@warwick.ac.uk (CrisP) writes: >In article <1694@madnix.UUCP> robert@madnix.UUCP (Robert Moldenhauer) writes: >>Hi, >>Could someone post real numbers of personal computer sales (Amiga, Apple, >>Dos, Atari). We have had some rediculous debates on our club BBS with someone > ^^^ > >What's a "Dos"? I've never heard of that kind of computer/manufacturer? He means MS-Dos (IBM PC) compatible machines. For some reason, these machines tend to be quite popular. Dunno why :-) -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Spencer Shanson - Amiga Software Engineer | email: spence@commodore.COM | or uunet!cbmvax!spence All opinions expressed are my own, and do not | "A picture is worth 1000 (necessarily) represent those of Commodore. | words, or about 300,000 | bytes."
agnus@amylnd.stgt.sub.org (Matthias Zepf) (01/20/91)
In article <1694@madnix.UUCP>, Robert Moldenhauer writes: >Could someone post real numbers of personal computer sales (Amiga, Apple, >Dos, Atari). We have had some rediculous debates on our club BBS with >someone even claiming the ST was the largest personal computer in Europe. >How many Amigae were sold last year? I want real numbers, nt Ataris >"Billions and Billions". Of course, there are many ST sold in Europe, especially in Germany, but the Atari ST is far away from being "the largest personal computer in Europe". STs are mainly bought because of their 70-Hz monochrom display. But there are much more Amiga 500 sold in Germany simple for playing video games. Today nearly nobody buys an Atari ST and also noone buys an Atari TT. But there are many A3000 sold in Germany. Our local computer shop sold about 45 A3000 till today and really 0 (NULL, zero) TTs! Greets, Matthias -- Matthias Zepf * Riegelaeckerstrasse 27 * D-7250 Leonberg * Reunited Germany *PHONE* (+49) 7152 41917 *UUCP* agnus@amylnd.stgt.sub.org *FIDO* 2:241/7031.7633 -or- zepf@helg.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Anybody listening? - Queensr"yche
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (01/20/91)
In article <4797@skye.cs.ed.ac.uk> db@lfcs.ed.ac.uk (Dave Berry) writes: > 1. The ST has a flicker-free 640x400 mono screen. The Amiga has a flicker-free 1280x400 color screen, with the ECS. > 2. The ST has better "serious" software. A matter of opinion. Not my opinion. I've been in the ST world, and I got out as quickly as I could. > As a parting note, I ended up buying a 386SX PC-clone. *MUCH* smarther than getting an ST. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
db@cs.ed.ac.uk (Dave Berry) (01/22/91)
> The ECS will have a 640x480 with 4 color screen for >multisync monitor owners. That's what I said! If the Amiga is to compete with the new ST and with PC-clones for the "home office" market (as opposed to the video games market, where it is clearly dominant), there needs to be a cheap model with the ECS. There isn't such a beast yet, and Commodore haven't announced any plans for one. Most home users don't want to muck around putting new chips in their machines themselves (and voiding their warranty). I also suggested a cheap mono monitor + (existing) TV as an alternative to an expensive multisync. Finally I suggested putting some speakers in the box, so that people could use either of the above monitors and still get stereo sound. I also said that I didn't believe the comment on the quality of Amiga software. I apologise if the above points weren't clear in my previous article. I thought I was pretty clear. -- Dave Berry, LFCS, Edinburgh Uni. db%lfcs.ed.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk "The Berlin Wall; the border between East and West Germany. It's very narrow." "*Was* very narrow. Get your tenses right." -- Douglas Adams, THHGTTG.
ludde@nada.kth.se (Erik Lundevall) (01/22/91)
In article <1991Jan22.145423.467@cs.umu.se> dvljhg@cs.umu.se (J|rgen Holmberg) writes: >In article <73.279A91D9@ijcr.fidonet.org> Darin.Arrick@ijcr.fidonet.org (Darin Arrick) writes: >> In Europe, the PC doesn't have such a stronghold as in the States. The >>Europeans look at other alternatives, mainly the ST and Amiga. >> > >He is rather far from the truth. The PC, while not as dominant as in the US, >certainly has a firm grip on the market. The second best selling machine is >the Mac, with Amiga and ST bringing up the rear. There are no other brands >worth mentioning right now. The Amiga is outselling the ST everywhere and >I think it is gaining ground on the Mac as well. > >/Jorgen One has to remember that Europe is not just one single homogenous market, but a number of different ones. As Jorgen points out, PC-clones are quite strong, at least in some countries. I find more similarities between Sweden and the US than between Sweden and Germany regarding the market share. -- -Erik Lundevall "You never fail until you have stopped trying" email: ludde@nada.kth.se ludde@adder.bula.se uunet!cbmvax!cbmehq!cbmswe!adder!ludde
rjc@geech.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (01/23/91)
In article <4827@skye.cs.ed.ac.uk> db@lfcs.ed.ac.uk (Dave Berry) writes: >> The ECS will have a 640x480 with 4 color screen for >>multisync monitor owners. > >That's what I said! If the Amiga is to compete with the new ST and with >PC-clones for the "home office" market (as opposed to the video games market, >where it is clearly dominant), there needs to be a cheap model with the ECS. >There isn't such a beast yet, and Commodore haven't announced any plans for >one. Most home users don't want to muck around putting new chips in their >machines themselves (and voiding their warranty). Why release a new Amiga model? Once 2.0 is set in ROM, Commodore will probably start shipping all new Amigas (A2000/2500/500) with the ECS Denise and 2.0 preinstalled! Just as they have done with the Ecs Agnus. The only model which might not have 2.0/ECS Denise is the A500C which is both cheap, and mainly a game machine. (only 512k ram, comes with games) I'm just speculating, but there is no reason to create dozens of different models like Apple does. I think it confuses the Consumer , because it takes more knowledge of 'what model is the best for me.' P.S. The ST is no competition, the Amiga already blew it away. > >-- > Dave Berry, LFCS, Edinburgh Uni. db%lfcs.ed.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk > >"The Berlin Wall; the border between East and West Germany. It's very narrow." >"*Was* very narrow. Get your tenses right." -- Douglas Adams, THHGTTG.
cleland@sdbio2.ucsd.edu (Thomas Cleland) (01/23/91)
>For the professional/ed. markets, I think a cheap model in a >3000 case would sell (a 1500?). With a 68000, perhaps a 16MHZ >one, or 68020, whatever's most cost-effective. My reason is >that for large banks of student-accessible computers, or for >the office network, or laboratory WP, or secretary's desktop, >or point-of-sales, or really any public application, often >the A500 and A2000 don't cut it simply because of looks. >No university is going to buy 400 banks of A500s in lieu of >Macintosh Classics. Ditto the 2000. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Oops, better clarify this. The 2000 is in lots of universities, of course, but I haven't seen it out in the "mass access" areas of any university I've attended (a small fraction of those in the world). It also costs more than a Classic. It is, of course, just as sexy as most clones. I still think a basic machine in a 3000 case is a good idea; of course Commodore is better equipped to judge the actual market and saleability of such a machine. Enough. -- // / Thom Cleland / It is easier / // / tcleland@ucsd.edu / to get forgiveness / \X/ / ASOCC * Amiga Users' Group at UCSD / than permission... / \____________________________________\____________________/
cleland@sdbio2.ucsd.edu (Thomas Cleland) (01/23/91)
>[the IBM-PC] has a firm grip on the market. The second best selling machine is >>the Mac, with Amiga and ST bringing up the rear. There are no other brands >>worth mentioning right now. The Amiga is outselling the ST everywhere and >>I think it is gaining ground on the Mac as well. >> Ack. Not so, at least not according to the UK Amiga magazines and my European friends. IBM sales aside, the Amiga dominates the Mac in Germany, Britain, and Denmark, while the Mac dominates in Sweden. France has a reasonably strong Mac presence too. Don't know about the rest. >>/Jorgen -- // / Thom Cleland / It is easier / // / tcleland@ucsd.edu / to get forgiveness / \X/ / ASOCC * Amiga Users' Group at UCSD / than permission... / \____________________________________\____________________/
ddyer@hubcap.clemson.edu (Doug Dyer) (01/24/91)
For serious monochrome resolution, there is the grey scale (4) of 1008*800 with the new ECS (you need the A2040(?) monitor). Then there is the ULowel board... Lets get rid of these cryptic product numbers. Does anyone know anything about the ULowel board other than its res. and color? Id really like to know if it can be used with workbench, "legal" software, etc. Bye, Doug Dyer ddyer@hubcap.clemson.edu -- "I/O's revenge is at hand." - Hennessy & Patterson
ckp@grebyn.com (Checkpoint Technologies) (01/24/91)
In article <12764@hubcap.clemson.edu> ddyer@hubcap.clemson.edu (Doug Dyer) writes: >Does anyone know anything about the ULowel board other than its res. and color? ..which everyone knows: 1024 X 768, 256 colors plus 3 color "overlay". 24 bit palette, 16 million colors. A 34010 GSP does the drawing. A DMA interface, just like the fancy new "bus mastering" IBM XGA. TIGA software interface. Which leads me to: >Id really like to know if it can be used with workbench, "legal" software, >etc. The A2410 "ULowell" card will not work with Workbench, with Intuition, with any existing Amiga software which uses any of the existing software libraries for their graphics. The A2410 uses a TIGA interface, which is a software interface standard designed by Texas Instruments. Many things are different from the Amiga's custom chip graphics: images are in "chunky pixels" (all bits of a pixel are adjacent in the same memory word) rather than bit planes; the graphics memory is not directly addressable by the 68K CPU; there's no Copper, etc. In short, any program that uses this card must know exactly what it's dealing with. So what in the world is it good for? It's main purpose is to give the Unix Amiga a megapixel color display for X Windows. You can't be a workstation without one. This card may never serve any purpose for most AmigaDOS'ers. -- First comes the logo: C H E C K P O I N T T E C H N O L O G I E S / / \\ / / Then, the disclaimer: All expressed opinions are, indeed, opinions. \ / o Now for the witty part: I'm pink, therefore, I'm spam! \/
dewolfe@ug.cs.dal.ca (Colin DeWolfe) (01/25/91)
In article <24971@grebyn.com> ckp@grebyn.com (Checkpoint Technologies) writes: >In article <12764@hubcap.clemson.edu> ddyer@hubcap.clemson.edu (Doug Dyer) writes: >>Does anyone know anything about the ULowel board other than its res. and color? > >..which everyone knows: 1024 X 768, 256 colors plus 3 color "overlay". >24 bit palette, 16 million colors. A 34010 GSP does the drawing. A DMA >interface, just like the fancy new "bus mastering" IBM XGA. >TIGA software interface. Which leads me to: > >>Id really like to know if it can be used with workbench, "legal" software, >>etc. > >The A2410 "ULowell" card will not work with Workbench, with Intuition, >with any existing Amiga software which uses any of the existing software >libraries for their graphics. The A2410 uses a TIGA interface, which is >a software interface standard designed by Texas Instruments. Many >things are different from the Amiga's custom chip graphics: images are >in "chunky pixels" (all bits of a pixel are adjacent in the same memory >word) rather than bit planes; the graphics memory is not directly >addressable by the 68K CPU; there's no Copper, etc. In short, any >program that uses this card must know exactly what it's dealing with. > >So what in the world is it good for? It's main purpose is to give the >Unix Amiga a megapixel color display for X Windows. You can't be a >workstation without one. This card may never serve any purpose for >most AmigaDOS'ers. I can think of a use right now.... Cad programs could use this thing. Not only does it have high resolution, lots of colours and a great display, but it makes a great Display List Processor Just imagine how fast X-CAD would run on this sucker... >-- >First comes the logo: C H E C K P O I N T T E C H N O L O G I E S / / > \\ / / >Then, the disclaimer: All expressed opinions are, indeed, opinions. \ / o >Now for the witty part: I'm pink, therefore, I'm spam! \/ -- Colin DeWolfe dewolfe@ug.cs.dal.ca
guineau@wjg.enet.dec.com (W. John Guineau) (01/25/91)
In article <1991Jan24.234830.11110@cs.dal.ca>, dewolfe@ug.cs.dal.ca (Colin DeWolfe) writes: |> From: dewolfe@ug.cs.dal.ca (Colin DeWolfe) |> Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc |> Subject: Re: opean Personal Computer Sales? [Stuff on ulowell card deleted] |> > |> >So what in the world is it good for? It's main purpose is to give the |> >Unix Amiga a megapixel color display for X Windows. You can't be a |> >workstation without one. This card may never serve any purpose for |> >most AmigaDOS'ers. |> |> I can think of a use right now.... |> Cad programs could use this thing. Not only does it have high resolution, |> lots of colours and a great display, but it makes a great Display |> List Processor |> Just imagine how fast X-CAD would run on this sucker... Well, if a standard of access to these cards could be devised for the Amiga, then a framebuffer.library (.device?) could be written to access different ones - transparent to the application. Then new programs like DPAINT IV and DigiView 5.0 ( :-)) could open mega-color screens on them. Eventually, by the time the fun wore off, Commodore Amiga would have ported Intuition, gfx etc... |> |> >-- |> >First comes the logo: C H E C K P O I N T T E C H N O L O G I E S |> / / |> > |> \\ / / |> >Then, the disclaimer: All expressed opinions are, indeed, opinions. |> \ / o |> >Now for the witty part: I'm pink, therefore, I'm spam! |> \/ |> |> -- |> Colin DeWolfe |> dewolfe@ug.cs.dal.ca |> -- W. John Guineau grep meaning life | more Digital Equipment Corporation guineau@wjg.enet.dec.com or wjg@wpi.wpi.edu