tron1@tronsbox.xei.com (Kenneth Jamieson) (01/16/91)
Ok, well, with the A3000out in the world, all the specs now known. I think it is more than time to start talking about the A3500 (or would it be the A4000 ?) In the long tradition of c.s.a I will expect this to get very spirited and look forward to all the rumors and wish lists (1/2 ;-) Actually, I am not trying to stir up trouble here, but I was thinking the other day abou this topic. My development env here is bogging down, and my choice is to spend approx 1800$ now and get a '486 MB or wait and get a A3000/UX. But I just cant justify the expense of a A3000/UX for >UNIX< development over a '486 IN MY CASE because I would need a entire A3000/UX as opposed to just a '486 MB. So I started thinking, "Ok, get the '486 now and start saving for the NEXT generation Amiga, or a A3000/UX and a Toaster when they make it fit." .. but what WILL be the next generation Amiga ?? Ok... on to the rumors... I have heard that (from the rumors guy at our users group) (Actually, they are such logical changes that they should be true) 1) The A3500 will be a tower case with 6-8 slots. 2) The A3500 will be sized to fit a Toaster. These have been alternately mentioned for a "A3500" or "A4000" so I'll list em here... 3) A possible '040 at > 25 MHZ 4) New 256 or 4096 color modes (640x400 or better) 5) Standard ethernet ? (rumored workstation configuration) My WISH LIST would start as follows... 1) Commodore to embrace C++ as the new standard in the way they did with C. 2) The better video modes. 3) A standard >3< button mouse. Hehehe -- have fun! -- ========[ Xanadu Enterprises Inc. Amiga & Unix Software Development]======= = "I know how you feel, you don't know if you want to hit me or kiss me - = = --- I get a lot of that." Madonna as Breathless Mahoney (Dick Tracy) = =========== Ken Jamieson: uunet!tronsbox.xei.com!tron1 =================== = NONE of the opinions represented here are endorsed by anybody. = === The Romantic Encounters BBS 201-759-8450(PEP) / 201-759-8568(2400) ====
helz@ec.ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman) (01/17/91)
In article <665@tronsbox.xei.com> tron1@tronsbox.xei.com (Kenneth Jamieson) writes: > > Ok... on to the rumors... > > I have heard that (from the rumors guy at our users group) > (Actually, they are such logical changes that they should be > true) > > 1) The A3500 will be a tower case with 6-8 slots. > 2) The A3500 will be sized to fit a Toaster. I would be satisfied with a bigger desktop case with more slots and also a keyboard garage! > My WISH LIST would start as follows... > > 1) Commodore to embrace C++ as the new standard in the way > they did with C. Yes yes YES! C++ -- try it, you'll like it. Did you see the BYTE article about the object-oriented nature of the operating system? They are already halfway there, just go the extra mile. > 2) The better video modes. What about new hardware in the custom chips to support 3D graphics, shading, etc., like an Iris Workstation? > 3) A standard >3< button mouse. clap clap clap > > > Hehehe -- have fun! This is fun. I'd like to toss in a few of my extra goodies--digital sound sampled at 44khz and support for display postscript. (Yes, I like the NeXT computer too.)
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (01/17/91)
tron1@tronsbox.xei.com (Kenneth Jamieson) writes: > Ok, well, with the A3000out in the world, all the specs now known. I > think it is more than time to start talking about the A3500 (or would > it be the A4000 ?) Which is a topic specifically meant to be isolated to c.s.a.advocacy; please _start_ such discussions there, and save the rest of the groups the pain of moving them. > In the long tradition of c.s.a I will expect this to get very spirited > and look forward to all the rumors and wish lists (1/2 ;-) Which is why it should be in .advocacy, and not the groups you chose. Those of us interested in participating in such discussions are already running a permanent floating net.riot in .advocacy; do join the fun. > Actually, I am not trying to stir up trouble here, but I was thinking > the other day abou this topic. My development env here is bogging > down, and my choice is to spend approx 1800$ now and get a '486 MB or > wait and get a A3000/UX. A posting that both points to a future path for the Amiga and suggests that any other piece of trash has a hope of acting as a sop until you get an Amiga is an _excellent_ and 100% guaranteed way to stir up trouble; use some sense! > But I just cant justify the expense of a A3000/UX for >UNIX< > development over a '486 IN MY CASE because I would need a entire > A3000/UX as opposed to just a '486 MB. Tell someone who cares. I call that throwing good money after bad. > So I started thinking, "Ok, get the '486 now and start saving for the > NEXT generation Amiga, or a A3000/UX and a Toaster when they make it > fit." .. but what WILL be the next generation Amiga ?? "Next" is not a word we like to hear around here a lot, either. > Ok... on to the rumors... Heeeeere's Kenny.....: > I have heard that (from the rumors guy at our users group) (Actually, > they are such logical changes that they should be true) > 1) The A3500 will be a tower case with 6-8 slots. Probably. > 2) The A3500 will be sized to fit a Toaster. The _A3000_ was sized to fit a Toaster; it isn't Commodore's fault that Newtek didn't employ anyone competent to read an engineering drawing, and made a card that wouldn't fit the perfectly well delimited space allowed. Screw 'em; let Newtek fix their own engineering gaffes. > These have been alternately mentioned for a "A3500" or "A4000" so I'll > list em here... > 3) A possible '040 at > 25 MHZ Probably the best you can do. Yawn. Wake me up when you can do that at 100 MHz with memory fast enough to keep up. > 4) New 256 or 4096 color modes (640x400 or better) Far too little imagination; if CBM is going to keep a lock on the Video market in the face of the fast oncoming competition, without an adequate advertising budget, then there _must_ be a stock 24bit color system _from CBM_. If you can't suck them in with advertising bullshit, you have to actually blow the competition out of the water with technical merit. > 5) Standard ethernet ? (rumored workstation configuration) Depends a lot on your intended market; if you are still targeting the high end home market, then ethernet is a bull-nipple as a standard feature for 90% of your market, and should probably be left out to reduce the base price; if you only intend to sell into the workstation market, then you are going to have to jack the machine speed up to outcompete the R6000 class machines, and the cost of ethernet is going to disappear into the noise level compared to the cost of the whole unit, so you might as well toss it in to help you compete on techinical merit. If you're competing in this market, you'd better be striving for 1280x1024 resolution as well, or you'll keep being seen as a toy vendor. > My WISH LIST would start as follows... > 1) Commodore to embrace C++ as the new standard in the way they did > with C. Gag! Follow comp.std.c++. The C++ language is rapidly going the way of Ada -- too damned complicated and counterintuitive to be used for anyone of less than deific competence. Like Ada, C++ has incomprehensible identifier visibility rules, bizarre separate compilation interactions, and adds poor compromises between upward compatibility with C and object oriented programming support, baroque inheritance rules, et ad nauseum cetera. > 2) The better video modes. Keen plan; that's what CBM's been about. The hardware is in place, it is unclear to what extent software support/compatibility has been accomplished. I'm not the least bit thrilled with a monitor technology that seems to paint the screen in quadrants, though; that tremendously complicates the "draw after the scanline is passed" schemes to support BOB motion without double buffering overhead or screen trash from uncoordinated blits. > 3) A standard >3< button mouse. Looks like it will be crucial for AmigaUnix to be used smoothly with the existing software base; it would be nice to see it hacked in to become a standard part of AmigaOS, but that implies that the A3000 should ship with a three button mouse, and the user community will need to upgrade or to have a keypress that emulates the middle mouse button. > Hehehe -- have fun! Sure, but there's a playground for this kind of stuff; please use it. Deliberately starting a thread like this _away_ from .advocacy is just being hostile to the c.s.a.* community. /// It's Amiga /// for me: why Kent, the man from xanth. \\\/// settle for <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> \XX/ anything less? -- Convener, COMPLETED comp.sys.amiga grand reorganization.
phil@adam.adelaide.edu.au (Phil Kernick) (01/21/91)
tron1@tronsbox.xei.com (Kenneth Jamieson) writes: When the national C= reps demoed the A3000, they told us a little about the A3500, vis: > 1) The A3500 will be a tower case with 6-8 slots. Partly true. The A3500 will indeed be in a tower case but has an A3000 motherboard in it, so it has *exactly* the same number of slots as the A3000. > 2) The A3500 will be sized to fit a Toaster. Can the A3000 fit a toaster? If it can so can the A3500. > 3) A possible '040 at > 25 MHZ Will eventually fit in the co-processor interface on all A3x00 class machines. > 4) New 256 or 4096 color modes (640x400 or better) Not in the A3x00 set. Maybe the A4000, because it will require a new chipset. > 5) Standard ethernet ? (rumored workstation configuration) True. The A3500 was to be marketed as a standard unix server with ethernet an a 200MB SCSI harddrive with >8MB RAM. This means that there was not to be a standard AmigaDOS A3500, just the unix version (ie unix is not an option, it is standard). Of course, in standard C= fashion, they will neither confirm or deny any of the above because specs may change before final release. Phil. -- o| /// Phil Kernick EMail: phil@adam.adelaide.edu.au |o | /// Departmental Engineer Phone: +618 228 5914 | o| \\\/// Dept. of Psychology Fax: +618 224 0464 |o | \/// University of Adelaide Mail: GPO Box 498 Adelaide SA 5001 |
zerkle@iris.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle) (01/21/91)
In article <phil.664412985@adam.adelaide.edu.au> phil@adam.adelaide.edu.au (Phil Kernick) writes: >tron1@tronsbox.xei.com (Kenneth Jamieson) writes: > >When the national C= reps demoed the A3000, they told us a little about the >A3500, vis: > >> 1) The A3500 will be a tower case with 6-8 slots. > > Partly true. The A3500 will indeed be in a tower case but has > an A3000 motherboard in it, so it has *exactly* the same number > of slots as the A3000. Oh dear. You couldn't be more wrong. The slots are NOT on the motherboard in the 3000, but on an expansion backplane. The 3500 motherboard will certainly be different, anyway. You'll get 4 PC-AT slots and five Zorro ]I[ slots. >> 2) The A3500 will be sized to fit a Toaster. > > Can the A3000 fit a toaster? If it can so can the A3500. The current model of the toaster, due to the "clever" way all that stuff got jammed on the card, doesn't fit in the 3000, but only (in a very special way) in the 2000 series. If NewTek isn't working on a version for the 3000, they're very stupid, and I really don't think those folks are stupid. Followups redirected to comp.sys.amiga.hardware. >o| /// Phil Kernick EMail: phil@adam.adelaide.edu.au |o Dan Zerkle zerkle@iris.eecs.ucdavis.edu (916) 754-0240 Amiga... Because life is too short for boring computers. Dan Zerkle zerkle@iris.eecs.ucdavis.edu (916) 754-0240 Amiga... Because life is too short for boring computers.
jep@mtiame.mtia.oz (Jesper Peterson) (01/22/91)
In article <phil.664412985@adam.adelaide.edu.au> phil@adam.adelaide.edu.au (Phil Kernick) writes: >tron1@tronsbox.xei.com (Kenneth Jamieson) writes: >> 1) The A3500 will be a tower case with 6-8 slots. > > Partly true. The A3500 will indeed be in a tower case but has > an A3000 motherboard in it, so it has *exactly* the same number > of slots as the A3000. The A3000 slots are not on the motherboard so how did you reach this conclusion? The "A3500" will have as many slots as C= decide to put on the daughterboard. Jesper. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ USEnet: jep@mtiame.mtia.oz.au UUCP: ...!uunet!munnari!mtiame.oz!jep [...] I had to leave out reality to keep the post clean and to the point. - jeremy@milton.u.washington.edu (Jeremy York) in rec.music.misc
dah@zoot.avgrp.cr.rok.com (Dave Haverkamp) (01/25/91)
In article <1991Jan24.192933.11944@zoot.avgrp.cr.rok.com> dah@zoot.avgrp.cr.rok.com (Dave Haverkamp) writes: >In article <7100@crash.cts.com> seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) writes: [ Stuff deleted...] > >>...I'd also like to see C= publish a minimum styleguide for developers to >>follow. Not as strict as Apple's, but something that Ami developers could >>build on while maintaining some consistency across applications. >> > Very, good suggestion. C= needs to take an active role in establishing >standards for the Amiga. That way developers will be compatible with >each other to some degree. Users always benefit when there is a low learning >curve for some new software package. Plus, it would be nice to think you >can continue purchasing Brand-X software to run on Brand-Y hardware. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I was considering the current poliferation of 24 bit Video boards that also include Paint programs. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- David A. Haverkamp Collins Commercial Avionics Division Rockwell International MS 124-211 INTERNET: dah@zoot.avgrp.cr.rok.com Cedar Rapids, Iowa 52498
dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) (01/25/91)
In article <1991Jan24.192933.11944@zoot.avgrp.cr.rok.com> dah@zoot.avgrp.cr.rok.com (Dave Haverkamp) writes: |In article <7100@crash.cts.com| seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) writes: ||In-Reply-To: message from tron1@tronsbox.xei.com |[ Stuff deleted...] || ||Here's my wishlist for future Amigas: || [...] || 5.) Sound input, both line level stereo and microphone miniplug. || | I would rather see C= offer a sound digitizer as an add on. Or just |let things as they are. Once C= puts something on the motherboard, it |discourages developers from making same piece of hardware. Then everyone |is forced to wait on C= to upgrade system, and C= is forced to maintain |compatibility with previous chips. Hear, hear. Soon, someone will figure out how to transfer raw data between the Amiga and a DAT (Digital Audio Tape) drive. This is just too good of an idea for it not to happen. Then, not only will you have a wonderful device for hard-disk backups, all you need is an audio source to make it a sound digitizer as well. |David A. Haverkamp Collins Commercial Avionics Division | Rockwell International MS 124-211 |INTERNET: dah@zoot.avgrp.cr.rok.com Cedar Rapids, Iowa 52498 Dave Schaumann | And then -- what then? Then, future... dave@cs.arizona.edu | -Weather Report
rwm@atronx.OCUnix.On.Ca (Russell McOrmond) (01/25/91)
In a message posted on 20 Jan 91 23:09:45 GMT,
phil@adam.adelaide.edu.au (Phil Kernick) wrote:
PK>> 1) The A3500 will be a tower case with 6-8 slots.
PK>
PK> Partly true. The A3500 will indeed be in a tower case but has
PK> an A3000 motherboard in it, so it has *exactly* the same number
PK> of slots as the A3000.
It's the daughter board that defines the number of slots, not the motherboard. It
can indeed have a different number, and placements of slots (I know the Video
Port ends up different - Just read the Schematics at the back of your A3000 users
manual).
PK>> 2) The A3500 will be sized to fit a Toaster.
PK> Can the A3000 fit a toaster? If it can so can the A3500.
Actually, it can - You just have to make a few modifications. We've sold a few
set up this way.
---
Opinions expressed in this message are my Own. I represent nobody else.
Russell McOrmond rwm@Atronx.OCUnix.On.Ca {tigris,alzabo,...}!atronx!rwm
FidoNet 1:163/109 Net Support: (613) 230-2282
Amiga-Fidonet Support 1:1/109 Gateway for .Amiga.OCUnix.On.Caglmwc@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Matt Crowd) (01/27/91)
In article <1991Jan24.192933.11944@zoot.avgrp.cr.rok.com> dah@zoot.avgrp.cr.rok.com (Dave Haverkamp) writes: >In article <7100@crash.cts.com> seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) writes: >>...I'd also like to see C= publish a minimum styleguide for developers to >>follow. Not as strict as Apple's, but something that Ami developers could >>build on while maintaining some consistency across applications. >> > Very, good suggestion. C= needs to take an active role in establishing >standards for the Amiga. That way developers will be compatible with >each other to some degree. Users always benefit when there is a low learning >curve for some new software package. Plus, it would be nice to think you >can continue purchasing Brand-X software to run on Brand-Y hardware. >-- The 1.3 Libraries and devices manual has a smallish chapter on making your application fairly standard. If every developer following the guidelines in the RKMs, applications would be pretty standard. Hopefully the 2.0 RKMs will be even better than the excellent 1.3 manuals... >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >David A. Haverkamp Collins Commercial Avionics Division > Rockwell International MS 124-211 >INTERNET: dah@zoot.avgrp.cr.rok.com Cedar Rapids, Iowa 52498 Regards, Colin Adams
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (01/28/91)
In article <7100@crash.cts.com> seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) writes: >[ Stuff deleted...] > >...I'd also like to see C= publish a minimum styleguide for developers to >follow. Not as strict as Apple's, but something that Ami developers could >build on while maintaining some consistency across applications. Hm, obviously didn't get the original posting, so now: RTFM!!! Following pages: RKM Libraries & Devices (Blue): 1. Introduction (Before contents pages) 2. Chapter 11, Intuition Style -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
hill@evax.arl.utexas.edu (Adam Hill) (01/29/91)
I don't want a few CHAPTERS on style. How about a whole book? Ala
OPEN Look's Style Guide. It would NAIL down requester questions, gaudy
vs. non-gaudy gadgets (CanDo programs can give you HEADACHES) etc..
Several Amiga programs would GREATLY benefit from a style guide.
While CBM is at it how about figuring out a STANDARD set of keyboard
shortcuts?
--
adam hill
hill@evax.arl.utexas.edu Make Up Your Own Mind.. AMIGA!
Amiga... Multimedia NOW
Most Common Phrase at DevCon '90 - "Shhhhhhh.." es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (01/29/91)
In article <HILL.91Jan29035533@evax.arl.utexas.edu> hill@evax.arl.utexas.edu (Adam Hill) writes: > > > I don't want a few CHAPTERS on style. How about a whole book? Ala >OPEN Look's Style Guide. It would NAIL down requester questions, gaudy >vs. non-gaudy gadgets (CanDo programs can give you HEADACHES) etc.. > > Several Amiga programs would GREATLY benefit from a style guide. >While CBM is at it how about figuring out a STANDARD set of keyboard >shortcuts? Commodore HAS a standard set of keyboard shortcuts. RTFRKM! It is in there. Just because no one listens to Commodore's requests doesn't mean CBM hasn't proposed a standard. The style guide really shouldn't be necessary. Most programmers know when their program is doing things "unusually". They decide in advance whether to do things traditionally or differently, and no style guide will change that. What is necessary are standards such as standard requestors and gadgets, and CBM is adding support for that, although not fast enough for some (Mike 8-) >-- > adam hill > hill@evax.arl.utexas.edu Make Up Your Own Mind.. AMIGA! > Amiga... Multimedia NOW > Most Common Phrase at DevCon '90 - "Shhhhhhh.." -- Ethan How did the Computer Scientist die in the shower? He followed the instructions: 0) Lather 1) Rinse 2) Repeat He died of a heap-stack collision.