rick@tetrauk.UUCP (Rick Jones) (02/05/91)
I suspect this could be a religious issue for some people, but as an agnostic
on the subject I'm just looking for a bit of objective advice.
I'm planning to buy a system for home use, on a small budget, and the Amiga and
Atari systems look pretty much comparable to me. What I'd like to hear are any
more subtle insights into which (possibly neither!) is more likely to suit me
better, especially in the long run.
Just so you know what level to pitch at, I'm a professional software engineer
and systems programmer, working on Unix on anything from 386 top-end PC's
upwards. The home machine is going to be used mostly by my family (I like to
take a break from the things when I get home :-). If I had the budget I'd get
a nice 386 Compaq with plenty hard-disk or similar, but I haven't - sigh.
Likely uses:
Games playing, mostly by the children
WP, my wife and myself a bit (I'd probably be happier with a vi clone!)
Household accounts
By my wife (an accountant) to handle client accounts
this is fairly small-scale, and I'd anticipate adding hard disk, etc
(I'd probably want to write s/w, or adapt PD stuff for these last two)
By children to learn programming, and "real" computing
Datacomms - remote login to the office, etc. (even Usenet!)
Things I'd like to know about:
What you REALLY get for the price with the cheapest model - any "optional
extras" that you can't really live without.
Relative costs of upgrading RAM, adding disks (floppy and hard), printer and
comms interfaces.
Limits to such upgrades (max RAM, max MB disk, etc)
Video quality a) via TV modulator, b) using monitor.
Costs of monitors, including availability of 3rd party monitors.
What's the standard OS, and how useful (and easy to use) is it?
What alternatives are available (both commercial and PD)
Availability of software - games, packages, programming languages
(interpreters & compilers), teaching aids, etc.
General quality and relative prices of such.
Any significant performance comparisons.
Anything you think is significant that I haven't mentioned.
Why I shouldn't get either and get something else :-)
I'd like to be able to start small but have the option to expand if I feel it's
justified, so the point at which the cheapest machine becomes a dead-end is
important. I know the Amiga comes in various models, but I'm not clear what
upgrade there is, if any, between them.
I'd also appreciate any advice on low-cost letter-quality (even graphics)
printers that would be suitable. I have very little experience at this end of
the market.
Please bear in mind I live in England, so any super bargain deals available in
the US aren't going to help me much! And from anyone in the UK, comments on
the chances with either system of getting a good second-hand deal would be
welcome (from a quick scan of the newsgroups, I suspect the Atari has the edge
here - presumably as it's been around longer).
Please respond by e-mail, as I don't generally follow these newsgroups.
Thanks in advance
--
Rick Jones
Tetra Ltd. Maidenhead, Was it something important? Maybe not
Berks, UK What was it you wanted? Tell me again I forgot
rick@tetrauk.uucp -- Bob Dylangl8f@astsun.astro.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl) (02/07/91)
Please do NOT cross-post Amiga/ST comparisons to both newsgroups. Several years ago we had a huge flamewar because of this; I doubt anyone wants to see it again. If you want to decide which machine to buy, your best bet is to go to your local dealer and compare. Read magazine reviews. Don't start a flamewar.
carter@cat27.cs.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) (02/07/91)
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
Writes: ...
In my opinion, STs are nice, simple machines with a good monochrome
display and a nice, but limited OS; Amiga is a more complex machine
with a powerfull, state-of-the-art OS and far better colour capabilities.
And when regarding current sales figures, Amiga is the machine of
the future, I wouldn't too much on Ataris in this aspect.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notice the third word in the paragraph...OPINION. Obviously this man
never EVER owned an ST. I would contend, that after the equavalent ad ons
such as a color board/graphics card, in Europe which there are many,
the ST would look just as nice as an AMIGA machine.
As for sales, thats funny, a German friend on my floor says thats all there
are in Germany is Atari's with a few Amiga's sprinkled here and there???
Atari has very healthy markets abroad and just like commodore, Atari has
yet to take advantage of the USA market.
If you want to do word processing, I hardly think you would have time to
play a game at the same time. As for multi tasking, Atari multitasks
REALISTICALLY. That is, if you want to print something out, or download
something or do something else like play music that doesn't require
your constant interaction there are plenty of options available to help you
do these things in the background so you don't waste time so you can do
something else..like play games.
Really, multitasking is WAY overplayed by AMIGA people. They are not
the only people who have multi tasking machines, its just that workbench
supports this option automatically. While on the ST its an add on.
---Gregorykls30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Kent L Shephard) (02/07/91)
Well each machine has its merits. The way you should choose a machine is
to find the software you plan to run, look at what you might want to run
in the future and buy the machine that runs it.
No one machine does all tasks well. Find a machine that will do the task
you wish to do well.
So now that you have figured out what software you want to run; does it
run on a Mac, Atari, PC clone, Amiga, or NeXT.
I personally own an eight bit Atari 1200XL (haven't touched it in a long
time), 386sx PC clone (I happen to like it) running Win 3.0, and I'm
waiting for my NeXT to be delivered.
Once again one machine is not suited for every task. Find a machine that
runs the software you like and buy it.
Kent
--
/* -The opinions expressed are my own, not my employers. */
/* For I can only express my own opinions. */
/* */
/* Kent L. Shephard : email - kls30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com */es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (02/07/91)
In article <1991Feb6.205829.2142@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> carter@cat27.cs.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) writes: > >As for sales, thats funny, a German friend on my floor says thats all there >are in Germany is Atari's with a few Amiga's sprinkled here and there??? Well, your friend has an unusual floor. Commodore sells more personal computers in Europe than any other company except IBM, they have over 10% of the market. Commodore's sales are also over twice that of Atari's, in dollars. Your friend is simply incorrect. Atari is going downhill if you look at their statements. > >Atari has very healthy markets abroad and just like commodore, Atari has >yet to take advantage of the USA market. > Atari, IN EUROPE ONLY, has decent markets which are shrinking. >Really, multitasking is WAY overplayed by AMIGA people. They are not >the only people who have multi tasking machines, its just that workbench >supports this option automatically. While on the ST its an add on. > Multitasking is only REALLY useful with a powerful computer. On a standard Amiga, you can format on one disk drive and compress on another while word processing. But on a higher-end Amiga with hard-drive (the most important add-on) as well as 1MB-2MB of memory, you can run many programs simultaneously. Interprocess Communications is a very powerful feature that is underused. To say multitasking is WAY overplayed is to have never used it to its fullest. Most people don't. And multitasking is an add-on to MS-DOS if you count their TSRs. >---Gregory -- Ethan Q: What's the definition of a Quayle? A: Two right wings and no backbone.
dlk0ms9s@umiami.ir.miami.edu (Mark Santora) (02/07/91)
In article <1991Feb6.205829.2142@daffy.cs.wisc.edu>, carter@cat27.cs.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) writes: > Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... > Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk > > Writes: ... > > In my opinion, STs are nice, simple machines with a good monochrome > display and a nice, but limited OS; Amiga is a more complex machine > with a powerfull, state-of-the-art OS and far better colour capabilities. > And when regarding current sales figures, Amiga is the machine of > the future, I wouldn't too much on Ataris in this aspect. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Notice the third word in the paragraph...OPINION. Obviously this man > never EVER owned an ST. I would contend, that after the equavalent ad ons > such as a color board/graphics card, in Europe which there are many, > the ST would look just as nice as an AMIGA machine. > > As for sales, thats funny, a German friend on my floor says thats all there > are in Germany is Atari's with a few Amiga's sprinkled here and there??? > > Atari has very healthy markets abroad and just like commodore, Atari has > yet to take advantage of the USA market. > > If you want to do word processing, I hardly think you would have time to > play a game at the same time. As for multi tasking, Atari multitasks > REALISTICALLY. That is, if you want to print something out, or download > something or do something else like play music that doesn't require > your constant interaction there are plenty of options available to help you > do these things in the background so you don't waste time so you can do > something else..like play games. > > Really, multitasking is WAY overplayed by AMIGA people. They are not > the only people who have multi tasking machines, its just that workbench > supports this option automatically. While on the ST its an add on. > > ---Gregory Ok people, here you go with the DEFINITIVE answer. I own BOTH a MEGA 2 and an Amiga 500. Now, I have personally come to like each machine for each of its strong points. The Amiga has the graphics. No Question. Don't get me wrong, the ST has the capbility, but I have better use for it. Now the ST is used for all of my MIDI tasks as well as modem uses(I am doing this off my MEGA) and Word Processing. My processor of choice is Word Up. I also DTP off the MEGA with Calamus. I also use the AMIGA for GenLocking. Now that Dpaint is out for the ST I must say that I find it easier than DPIII for the AMIGA. But this is not a HOLY WAR. DOn't start one, it isn't worth it. Just admit your personal findings about the machines and let it go, there is no reason to attack machine owners. And just for the sake of Argument, the multitaksing on the AMIGA is just too slow for me. Oh well. Mark Santora DLK0MS9S@UMIAMI.EDU
scoile@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Steve Coile) (02/07/91)
Ever notice how it's always the Amiga owners who feel the need to press
their Amiga-ST flame wars over to comp.sys.atari.st?? You'd think if
their system was sooooooo much better, they wouldn't be so insecure
about it. I notice most Atari voices on this group seem rather
confident and content with THE POWER OF THEIR MACHINE (not necessarily
with Atari itself...*SIGH*).
Of course, I just hope everyone realizes, that neither an Atari OR a
Commode-ore can come close to matching a DEC VAXstation...ahhh...bliss!
=)
Steve "Stevers!" Coile
{scoile|acs075}@gmuvax[{.BITNET|[2].gmu.edu}]|2211c1@gmuvax2.gmu.edu
"Maturity is knowing when and where to act immature"REEVES@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Terry Reeves) (02/07/91)
OK, guys. Isn't it about time we nipped this ST vs. Amiga flame war in the bud.
I personally don't mind if you throw verbal megatonnage at each other, but by
posting it to a group other than comp.sys.jihad where this stuff belongs, you
have started to waste my time.
And now I intend to pour what I hope is the first bucket of cold water on the
discussion. When I purchased my machine (and I'm not telling which one I have),
I based my decision upon the amount of money I had to spend, what software I
could run, what machines were available to me on the day I purchased, what I
thought I could eventually do with it, etc. In short, I bought the machine that
I thought would give me the most bang for my dollar. Like any normal computer
nerd, I would have liked to have been able to have bought a better machine, but
then everyone wants a CRAY-PC. The simple fact is that I knew what were the
available options for me and I made my decision. I am not dumb or stupid. I
don't have a history of insanity. I made a sound decision and I have not
regretted it at all. Not even once. My machine has done everything that I have
needed or expected. And quite frankly, I resent someone who knows absolutely
nothing about my choice or the constraints that I was working within telling me
that I made an incredibly stupid choice. I did not.
Now, I read certain news groups to keep up with developments related to the
computer that I bought. In this way, I hope to learn about new upgrade options,
new software, what works, what doesn't, etc. In short, I seek to continue to
be able to make thoughtful, informed choices. These flame wars usually result
in nothing more than heat and noise. Illumination is one of the last things
that is ever found in one. If I really want to learn more about some other
machine, then I will do the most logical thing. I will start reading the news
group for that machine. I don't have the money or the inclination to change
computers at this time. And when I do, I will read the appropriate news group.
So please take your little war somewhere else, and let me get on with learning
about what I have.
Terry W. Reeves
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed above are my own. They do not reflect the
policies of SLAC, Stanford University, or the U.S. government.hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Moriland) (02/07/91)
In article <1991Feb6.205829.2142@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> carter@cat27.cs.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) writes: }Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... }Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk } }Writes: ... } } In my opinion, STs are nice, simple machines with a good monochrome }display and a nice, but limited OS; Amiga is a more complex machine }with a powerfull, state-of-the-art OS and far better colour capabilities. }And when regarding current sales figures, Amiga is the machine of }the future, I wouldn't too much on Ataris in this aspect. } }------------------------------------------------------------------------------ } }Notice the third word in the paragraph...OPINION. Obviously this man }never EVER owned an ST. I would contend, that after the equavalent ad ons }such as a color board/graphics card, in Europe which there are many, }the ST would look just as nice as an AMIGA machine. } }As for sales, thats funny, a German friend on my floor says thats all there }are in Germany is Atari's with a few Amiga's sprinkled here and there??? } }Atari has very healthy markets abroad and just like commodore, Atari has }yet to take advantage of the USA market. } }If you want to do word processing, I hardly think you would have time to }play a game at the same time. As for multi tasking, Atari multitasks }REALISTICALLY. That is, if you want to print something out, or download }something or do something else like play music that doesn't require }your constant interaction there are plenty of options available to help you }do these things in the background so you don't waste time so you can do }something else..like play games. } }Really, multitasking is WAY overplayed by AMIGA people. They are not }the only people who have multi tasking machines, its just that workbench }supports this option automatically. While on the ST its an add on. } }---Gregory Who cares Greg, take it back to your own newsgroup.. --Moriland -- | hastoerm@vela.acs.oakland.edu | __ | | | __/// Viva Amiga! | | Founder Of: Evil Young | \XX/ | | Mutants For A Better Tomorrow | "Single Tasking: JUST SAY NO!" |
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (02/07/91)
In article <1991Feb6.205829.2142@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> carter@cat27.cs.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) writes: > [talking about me:] >Notice the third word in the paragraph...OPINION. Obviously this man >never EVER owned an ST. Yes, you're completely right. And to tell the truth: I only realized after posting that this would also go to c.s.atari.st. Oh boy, I'll rush right out and search for some flame-proof asbestos suit. So, in all public: I didn't intend to bash on Atari, I just uttered my personal, VERY biased, impressions and opinions. If I hurt someone, then I apologize. PEACE! But some items are indeed facts: >As for sales, thats funny, a German friend on my floor says thats all there >are in Germany is Atari's with a few Amiga's sprinkled here and there??? That was true until ca. 2 years ago, today it's like I said. >Atari has very healthy markets abroad and just like commodore, Atari has >yet to take advantage of the USA market. Yes. PEACE! PEACE! PAX! -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
dac@ukc.ac.uk (David Clear) (02/07/91)
In article <1991Feb6.163205.6683@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> gl8f@astsun.astro.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl) writes: >If you want to decide which machine to buy, your best bet is to go to >your local dealer and compare. Read magazine reviews. Don't start a >flamewar. Agreed. I mailed the original poster with some advice, quoting the good and bad points of both machines. In the end I didn't recommend he get one machine, but I game him points to think about for both machines. It's his money and just because you like your machine for your uses doesn't mean it's suitable for him. Saying "a is better than b" doesn't really help. No machine is better than another machine on all points. Owning one machine and never looking at the competition is a taking a very blinkered view on the industry. You end up being a die-hard owner of one machine, never even considering buying "the rival" systems. Please mail the original poster and not post to this newsgroup. Most of us have had years of "a is better than b" and are sick of it. It never gets us anywhere and it in fact projects a childish attitude from both camps. It also wastes bandwidth. Do not do this, it is wrong. David.
news@cs.Helsinki.FI (news) (02/07/91)
From: luoto@cs.Helsinki.FI (Markku Luoto) Path: kreeta!luoto - it's faster !! - better connections - better software (calamus SL is the only hard core DTP-prog. for pc:s) - more user support (pd librarys/ pd prog) but - amiga games use the hardware resouces better...and that's about it -----------------> of course I'm talking about TT030/8, st stands for... -------------------------------------------------->....Second To...TT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>> " I'm completely operational & all my cicuits are functioning <<<<<< >>>>>> correctly...correc...corr...co...-! " : HAl9000 <<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) (02/08/91)
In article <3389@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> scoile@gmuvax2.UUCP (Steve Coile) writes: >Ever notice how it's always the Amiga owners who feel the need to press >their Amiga-ST flame wars over to comp.sys.atari.st?? You'd think if [...] No, that's not true, although it might appear that way some times. What usually happens is the same thing that happened this time: Someone who doesn't know anything about either computer crossposts a request for comparisons, and the denisons of both groups respond in an escalating spiral of verbal hostilities. In each group it looks like the other group is doing all the attacks, and it takes a long time for everyone to calm down. I think that a brief show of respect for each other will make life more enjoyable for us all over the next week or two. If anyone wants to actually argue there is an amiga group set aside for that (note the followup). Otherwise let's try to be civil to one another while this crossposting nonsense wears off. -- _. --Steve ._||__ DISCLAIMER: All opinions are my own. Warren v\ *| ---------------------------------------------- V {uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.com
dsherif@csserv2.ic.sunysb.edu (Darin D Sheriff) (02/08/91)
In article <1991Feb6.205829.2142@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> carter@cat27.cs.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) writes: >Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... >Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk > >Writes: ... > > In my opinion, STs are nice, simple machines with a good monochrome >display and a nice, but limited OS; Amiga is a more complex machine >with a powerfull, state-of-the-art OS and far better colour capabilities. >And when regarding current sales figures, Amiga is the machine of >the future, I wouldn't too much on Ataris in this aspect. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Notice the third word in the paragraph...OPINION. Obviously this man >never EVER owned an ST. I would contend, that after the equavalent ad ons >such as a color board/graphics card, in Europe which there are many, >the ST would look just as nice as an AMIGA machine. This may be true but equivalent add ons cost money. > >As for sales, thats funny, a German friend on my floor says thats all there >are in Germany is Atari's with a few Amiga's sprinkled here and there??? The OPINIONS of one German friend does not mean that this is automatically true. I have heard MANY reports from others to the contrary. > >Atari has very healthy markets abroad and just like commodore, Atari has >yet to take advantage of the USA market. Atari had it's shot at the USA market and failed. (MY OPINION). I do not know the situation in Europe (except Germany :-)) so will not comment. (stuff deleted) > >Really, multitasking is WAY overplayed by AMIGA people. They are not This is obviously from someone who has never owned or used an Amiga for any apreciable length of time. >the only people who have multi tasking machines, its just that workbench >supports this option automatically. While on the ST its an add on. > >---Gregory Good for you. Have you added it on yet? I bet it costs extra. Please take this to comp.sys.amiga.advocacy. -- Darin Sheriff. One of the few, the proud, an Amiga 1000 owner. A computer: A machine that enables one to make twice as many mistakes in half the time. --unknown-- Disclaimer: It wasn't me. It was Chuck. (Yeah that's the ticket)
glmwc@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Matt Crowd) (02/08/91)
>}Really, multitasking is WAY overplayed by AMIGA people. They are not >}the only people who have multi tasking machines, its just that workbench >}supports this option automatically. While on the ST its an add on. >} >}---Gregory Workbench is NOT the heart of the multi-tasking system, the OS does the work SO don't call workbench the OS, AmigaDOS is the OS. matt crowd.
dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) (02/08/91)
In article <1991Feb7.222920.13058@santra.uucp> s37837k@saha.hut.fi (Jari Lehto) writes: > >AMIGA-USERS, GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS NEWSGROUP!!!! Gee, Wally. I thought this was an Amiga news group. Check out the Newsgroups line, bucko. This was cross-posted to comp.sys.amiga.misc, too. > [lots of personal opinions deleted] > *** Jari Lehto, jartsu@otax.hut.fi, s37837k@saha.hut.fi *** Followups to alt.flame, please. -- Dave Schaumann | DANGER: Access hole may tear easily. Use of the access | holes for lifting or carrying may result in damage to the dave@cs.arizona.edu | carton and subsequent injury to the user.
rjc@geech.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (02/08/91)
In article <1991Feb7.222920.13058@santra.uucp> s37837k@saha.hut.fi (Jari Lehto) writes: > >AMIGA-USERS, GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS NEWSGROUP!!!! > >or I will definitely come and mess up yours with hundreds of articles >filled with the same kind of shit you've written here... Take a look at the header. You've already done that. These articles were CROSS-POSTED meaning both groups get this crap. The Amiga gets it by far the most with the Mac vs Amiga, ST vs Amiga, NeXT vs Amiga flames that pop up constantly. >Buy an Atari. There are few big advantage above others: > > ST/TT-users are definitely not like those fanatic maniacs that > would defend a jar filled with shit, if there is the word Amiga > printed on it... You mean like you? > ST/TT-users don't attack people who dare to use a computer that > is something else than ST/TT. They are a one big happy family > that gives advice to everyone without asking what computer they > use, or if they are using any... Yeah right. Dream on. On local bbses in my area, there are ST users that call AMIGA boards to start wars. Every computer has its example of fanatics, and your a fine example. > ST/TT users don't deal people to groups according to their skills > in computing. In Amigaworld, those mystical expert-user groups with > mostly under-aged users in charge hide behind funny names and > keep their organizations up by buying other people's souls using > pirate-software as a currency. Hahhaha! The ST has more rampant piracy than any computer in existence! In Europe there are hundreds of ST pirate groups. >So, I think there is nothing wrong in the machine itself, it is just ment for >a bit different kind of use that ST. But there are users that make Amiga >look dirty. (there are such ST users also, but we wont let them loose...) Oh sure, I bet all those ST pirates/fanatic obey you fully. How do you propose to keep st users from 'letting lose'? People will do as they please. >I don't care which machine you buy, Amiga is an expensive toy and Atari, >especially with latest releases, is rather a cheap tool. Hahah...The ST has an even bigger game image then the Amiga! Get real. >Do you know any serious, famous musician using Amiga? I don't. >Do you know any serious, famous musician using Atari? I do, in fact too many > to count... B.B. King! Lets rephase this question: Do you know any serious, famous video/movie company using the Atari for Video? Do you know any serious, famous video/movie company using the Amiga for Video? Tons. Whats the biggest rage in the Video world? The Video Toaster! Th Amiga has better sound than the ST. The only thing the ST has is MIDI. Granted there is not much MIDI software on the Amiga's market,however the few packages that are availible are powerful. You can multitask Sequencers, Arrangers, Composers, and Video all at the same time, and synchronize Music to Video. The Amiga could be used to produce a music video, the ST could not. I used to use an ST everyday (at a friends house, to play games) He tried to get me to buy an ST. When I bought my Amiga, within a week his ST was up for sale, now he owns an A2000. > > Jartsu > Was I obnoxious? Yes..But I am SICK and TIRED of these constant XXX vs Amiga flames (except when they are in .advocacy!) If ST users wish to continue this, please join comp.sys.amiga.advocacy, and remove c.s.atari.st and c.s.amiga.misc from the newsgroups line.
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (02/08/91)
In article <1991Feb8.001307.14535@santra.uucp> s37837k@saha.hut.fi (Jari Lehto) writes: >Here is the kind of opinion I like to read. >Of course ST is second to TT, but the difference becomes very small, >after I have made business with Mr. Small: >My ST will RUN with the high speed of 33MHz offered by 68030 and using >all of it's 12Mb of RAM... >Wait until it is 50MHz and 36Mb RAM.... >A-3000, why so pale? > As long as you are cross-posting misleading information (if you didn't realize, look at the Newsgroups: line of your message, you sent into to both ST and Amiga groups), let me `clarify' things. True, the A3000 is only 25MHz, although you can go to 18MB on the motherboard and more on cards. However the 33MHz on your ST is NOT from Atari, but rather with 3rd party equipment. Therefore it is fair to consider what can be done on the Amiga with 3rd party equipment, and for appr. 8 months GVP has been shipping a 50MHz 030 card for the Amiga 2000, so you don't have to wait. Besides, once the 040 starts getting more widespread 50MHz 030s will be a dead issue. The 040 will be the hot issue and the Amiga (and I assume the Atari too) will be getting addon boards probably within 3 months. > Jartsu > > TT, the emperor of comp-world, and the high council of STs and STEs > supporting its every opinion! > > > *** Jari Lehto, jartsu@otax.hut.fi, s37837k@saha.hut.fi *** Hehe, nah, I won't say it. 8-) -- Ethan Q: What's the definition of a Quayle? A: Two right wings and no backbone.
carter@cat27.cs.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) (02/08/91)
glmwc@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Matt Crowd) writes: >}Really, multitasking is WAY overplayed by AMIGA people. They are not >}the only people who have multi tasking machines, its just that workbench >}supports this option automatically. While on the ST its an add on. >} >}---Gregory Ok, I am sorry, I am a dorkus, I will stop wasting your time with a machine nobody even cares about on this group. matt crowd. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok Matt, glad to see you came to your senses! --Gregory PS: I make no judgements on what I just did only that its funnier than all hell! :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
rjc@geech.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (02/08/91)
In article <1991Feb8.001307.14535@santra.uucp> s37837k@saha.hut.fi (Jari Lehto) writes: >In article <11431@hydra.Helsinki.FI> news@cs.Helsinki.FI (news) writes: >>From: luoto@cs.Helsinki.FI (Markku Luoto) >>Path: kreeta!luoto >> >>- it's faster !! >>- better connections >>- better software (calamus SL is the only hard core DTP-prog. for pc:s) >>- more user support (pd librarys/ pd prog) >>but >>- amiga games use the hardware resouces better...and that's about it >> >>-----------------> of course I'm talking about TT030/8, st stands for... >>-------------------------------------------------->....Second To...TT >Here is the kind of opinion I like to read. >Of course ST is second to TT, but the difference becomes very small, >after I have made business with Mr. Small: >My ST will RUN with the high speed of 33MHz offered by 68030 and using >all of it's 12Mb of RAM... >Wait until it is 50MHz and 36Mb RAM.... >A-3000, why so pale? Your ignorance of the Amiga is shown by the complete bullsh*t you continually post! The Amiga has PLENTY of 33mhz and even 50mhz 68030 cards availible. They have been availible for a long time! and unlike the ST, the Amiga's OS doesn't crash 68030s! (TOS won't run on 68030's without a patch because of the privileges instructions it uses). The Amiga 3000 can hold 18mb of ram on the motherboard and is expandible to 1.7 gigs! > > TT, the emperor of comp-world, and the high council of STs and STEs > supporting its every opinion! Are you an idiot or did someone steal your account? This is complete childish drivel! I bet the TT hasn't sold 1000 units yet. Not to mention that lots of software won't run on it. > > *** Jari Lehto, jartsu@otax.hut.fi, s37837k@saha.hut.fi ***
greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Harp) (02/08/91)
[Sorry for the followup, net.public, but this guy bugs me.] In article <1991Feb7.222920.13058@santra.uucp> s37837k@saha.hut.fi (Jari Lehto) writes: >AMIGA-USERS, GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS NEWSGROUP!!!! Er, did you bother to check the Newsgroups line? BTW, here in c.s.amiga.* we have a newsgroup for this kind of stuff, so please honor the Followup-To line. >or I will definitely come and mess up yours with hundreds of articles >filled with the same kind of shit you've written here... ...which is a great way to get your USENET access revoked. >Buy an Atari. There are few big advantage above others: The Atari _does_ have some advantages, but I Jari fails to mention any of them. > ST/TT-users are definitely not like those fanatic maniacs that > would defend a jar filled with shit, if there is the word Amiga > printed on it... Well, so far this guy's making good on his threat -- and then some... > ST/TT-users don't attack people who dare to use a computer that > is something else than ST/TT. They are a one big happy family > that gives advice to everyone without asking what computer they > use, or if they are using any... That may be true of most ST/TT owners, but I bet the net.public can name _one_ ST/TT owner who attacks owners of other computers. [ :-) ] I think you'll find the general c.s.amiga.* readers to be pretty decent, helpful people, too. > ST/TT users don't deal people to groups according to their skills > in computing. In Amigaworld, those mystical expert-user groups with > mostly under-aged users in charge hide behind funny names and > keep their organizations up by buying other people's souls using > pirate-software as a currency. [This is the part that made me laugh, BTW.] I don't see where this guy comes off saying something like this. There are no "mystical expert-user groups" in existance. The users groups I've seen and been a member of were all _very_ good about helping out new users. The group at my university has a small number of so-called "expert users" who are happy to help out the novice users. No exchange of pirated software occurs at these meetings. Such things are not only against the law, but they are against the rules at the university and they are against the bylaws of the club. Frankly, (and to be truthful this is only hearsay) I have been told that the about of piracy going on in the Atari market is much higher per capita. It's certianly nothing to brag about. >So, I think there is nothing wrong in the machine itself, it is just ment for >a bit different kind of use that ST. But there are users that make Amiga >look dirty. (there are such ST users also, but we wont let them loose...) > >I don't care which machine you buy, Amiga is an expensive toy and Atari, >especially with latest releases, is rather a cheap tool. Correct. The Amiga and the Atari are designed to do some things better than other machines. The BANG/BUCK ratio is about equal, IMHO. If all I was interested in was MIDI, I would have bought an Atari. Since I'm interested in music (usu. _not_ MIDI), video, real-time graphics applications, etc., I bought an Amiga. I paid more, and I feel that I made the right choice. BUT THAT WAS MY CHOICE! DON'T THINK THAT I AM TRYING TO DICTATE TO YOU WHAT MACHINE IS BEST! >Do you know any serious, famous musician using Amiga? I don't. I'd have to check back in a few recent c.s.amiga.* posts, but I believe I heard something about Robert Plant and someone else using the Amiga for MIDI. I also heard something about a musician who dropped his Mac system and bought into the Amiga in order to produce his music video. [Someone who remembers this better than I please help me out here.] >Do you know any serious, famous musician using Atari? I do, in fact too many > to count... I know of a few musicians using Ataris. I know of a whole helluva lot of them using the Mac. Why, you say, would someone use a Mac for MIDI? Well, there _is_ a lot of _very_ decent MIDI software available for it. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that the Mac could do MIDI as well or better than the ST or Amiga, simply because the software developer makes more money from the Mac market and decides to work harder on updates, etc. The advantage to using an Amiga or ST is the low price. BTW, replace the words "famous musician" in your questions with the following and ask them again. These may make you realize that the Amiga and the Atari are not competitors simply because they do _different_ things. 1) cable company 2) video effects engineer 3) home video fanatic 4) movie effects crew 5) world-wide news network 6) virtual reality designer For the Amiga, I can provide some answers... 1) Too many to name. For one, Austin Cablevision here in Austin, TX. 2) Again, too many to name. 3) Ditto for #3. 4) The infamous Robocop 2 scenes that apparently got cut, for one. 5) CNN. [Yes, the familiar "Cleared by U.S./British/Israeli/Iraqi Military," along with the rest of the genlocked graphics, are done by an Amiga.] 6) Quite a few. Post anything about VR and see what percentage of people interested are using Amigas. I'll be on the list... Anyway, my point is that both machines have their good points. Please don't post saying that the ST/TT is "so much better" and proceed to list a lot of BS points that are supposedly bad about the Amiga. I've been carrying on a nice, rather educational conversation with an Atari owner for quite some time. I have learned quite a bit about the Atari, and I know its good points. I also hope I've supplied some useful/educational info on the Amiga to this person. All in all, I don't think either one of us feels "superior" or "envious" about the other's machine. Outrageous flaming is not a way to deal with the differences between machines. Please stop using this tactic. Greg -- -------Greg-Harp-------greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu-------s609@cs.utexas.edu------- "Confutatis maledictus "When the accursed have been counfounded Flammis acribus addictis, == And given over to the bitter flames, Voca me cum benedictis." -- Mozart Call me with the blessed."
gaudreau@juggler.East.Sun.COM (Joe Gaudreau - Sun BOS Software) (02/08/91)
Ahhemmm, Attention Please! Cut It Out. Please. "Thank you for you support" (tm) :-) Joe -=- PS - Besides, tech info should go to c.s.a.st.t... :-)
koleman@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Kurt "Koleman" Koller) (02/09/91)
Who was the geeeeen that stated that there were only a few Amigas in Germany,
while the ST is rampant. I lived in Germany (Bonn) up until last year, and
even then there was a VERY BIG Amiga scene. Far bigger than in the states.
Amiga is actually able to compete with IBM in MANY of the European countries.
The ST and Amiga have very similar presence in Germany. And since I've left,
the ST market share has dropped considerably.
Also, if we talk about other countries I visited in the area:
France: Lot's o Amigas.
Denmark: Lots o' Amigas.
Sweden: Very lots o' Amigas.
I would have to say that in these 3 countries, the ST was far outnumbered. I
went to big "pirate parties" in France, one of which was busted by the "French
Software Police." It was a gas. The ST has groups with similar parties, but
the piracy is much HIGHER among the ST community. This comes from 3 different
dealers in Germany, and 1 in Denmark, all of which have had to compete with
outfits that SELL pirated software over the counter. Like B.Dalton's Software
Etc.... But the laws are a changing. One of my friends from Germany just
informed me a few months ago that Germany now has Software Laws as well. The
people were upset that it also restricted people copying in a party-like way,
not just the selling. Amazingly different attitude over there...
Kurt "Koleman" Koller
UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!koleman
INET: koleman@pnet51.orb.mn.orgcolas@lemur.inria.fr (Colas Nahaboo) (02/11/91)
Facts About European sales figures: For France, where I live, ST sold better than Amigas till the end of 89, and now the figures have been reversed (amiga sold better than STs). Since mid-90, the amiga sales have raised tremendoulsy since the amiga 500 price went down to exactly the price of an ST. Prices of add-ons (memory, drives, etc..) were ridiculously high for the ami till last year when they drop to ST level, and even lower now. I have read too that now in the UK that the amiga is the most installed (and the most sold I think) of ALL micros (including C64, etc...). As for flame wars, I owned an ST and an amiga, and I would advise people to determine themselves by the software they want to run. The only "business" application I use is a videotex emulator, and no good ones exist on the ami, but very nice ones (ZZ-COMM) exist on the ST, I am planning to buy a ST-emulator on my ami to run it. There are also very nice unix terminal emulators (term83) unavailable on the amiga, due to the nice mono screen of the ST. But since now I mostly play games, the amiga is way ahead in this aera... so it all boils down to what you want to do with your computer. -- Colas Nahaboo, colas@sa.inria.fr, Bull Research, Koala Project, GWM X11 WM Phone:(33) 93.65.77.70(.66 Fax), INRIA, B.P.109 - 06561 Valbonne Cedex, FRANCE.
jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders) (02/12/91)
In article <BY%-29_@irie.ais.org> jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) writes: > From: jph@ais.org (Joseph Hillenburg) > Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.atari.st ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I redirected this thread to the .advocacy group. This rocket scientist redirected it back to .atari again. Perhaps one of you amiga owners could explain to him why .advocacy was created. Or maybe he just wants to continue this stupid flame war. > > -- > // Joseph Hillenburg, Secretary, Bloomington Amiga Users Group > \X/ joseph@valnet.UUCP jph@irie.ais.org jph@ai.mit.edu > "Only Apple could slow down a 68030 chip" --Computer Shopper -- John Henders jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca Vancouver,B.C. or jhenders@wimsey.bc.ca or ubc.cs!van-bc!jonh!jhenders