m937290@usna.navy.mil (Midn. Norman R. Solis (937290) <m937290@usna.navy.mil>) (02/21/91)
I've been monitoring this newsgroup and a few others that are related to the Amiga. I'm currently computer-less (sold the last one) but I will buy a new machine in the near future. I'm deciding between three types of machines: IBM compat (386), Amiga, Mac. My main reason for considering the PC line is that the Academy has nothing but PC's here. Every incoming class is issued a PC so the installed base is pretty large. Not only that, but if you need something for your PC, there are a dozen places you can get it. I can build my own PC compat and not use one IBM part. I can mix and match from a hundred different manufacturers to get the system I want. I can even make it look the way I want it to (tower, slimline, etc). My main reason for looking at the Amiga is the fact that it's fast and well-integrated. It's a great hackers machine, so I'd love it. I don't need the graphics processing so much or the great sound but both are welcome. I REALLY like the fact that UNIX will be available for it soon. I also like the fact that I can become a developer with little trouble. My main reason for thinking about a Mac is the friendliness(sp?) of the user interface and the well-integrated hardware available for it. What I don't like are the prices that they charge (high profit margins) and their company policy of sueing anyone and anything that comes close to their product. They are sacrificing the state of the art for their corporate dollar. I'm a computer science major but I'm really interested in operating systems, multiprocessor hardware, and communications networks. Any suggestions? -Rich Solis -- | Richard Solis 937290@n1.usna.navy.mil Class of 1993 | | USNA 33rd Company m937290@csvax2.scs.usna.navy.mil | | Annapolis, MD 21412 WA3YIJ | | (301) 267-5001 GO NAVY, BEAT ARMY!!! Standard disclaimers apply! |
6600prao@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Parik Rao) (02/21/91)
Here are some factors to consider. I own a Apple (IIgs), IBM (286/12 and 386/33), and amigas (500 & 2000) and have had them all for a while and can program (ineptly :-) on them too... 1] IBM programs are more common than dirt. They turn up everywhere, they do everything. THey don't do it well, they don't do it fast, they don't do it easily, but they do it. A turbocharged vw-bug, if you will. 2] If you buy an amiga, be prepared to open up your creative side. You may run into a few walls, you may have to write some of your own programs, you may have to go to some crazy places to get info/progs. I've found however that if you want something done, and you want it done in the "whizbangest" fashion (ie, heavy on graphics & sound) the amiga will blow you away. But its not always at arms length... 3] A macintosh is for those of us who hate to look at computer moniters and want to get something done *FAST*. You get in, you get out. Personally, I like to spend more time with a project so I don't like using macs. Anyways, look at what you wanna do. If you wish to write a game, work with graphics/sound/animation, or just hack around get an amiga. If you want to run things OTHER people wrote, I think a IBM will work well. If you loathe computers get a macintosh. BUT, as you're a CS major, I'd recommend nothing LESS than a 386/33 (IBM), a amiga 2000, or a Mac IIsi (Mac). Of course you can get a 486, a 3000, or a IIfx/cx, but i don't know your budget. Anything less than the above can be frustrating. -- Parik Rao, University of California Santa Barbara 6600prao@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu
amhartma@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Andy Hartman - AmigaMan) (02/21/91)
Don't forget, you can get an Amiga 2000, a bridgeboard, and AmaxII+ and have all 3 computers in 1 for far less than having all 3 computers. I'd go for the amiga (but that's me and my bias...) AMH -- * Andy Hartman | I'd deny half of this crap anyway!| Support the troops * Indiana University | amhartma@silver.ucs.indiana.edu | in Saudi Arabia! * Computer Science | AMHARTMA@rose.ucs.indiana.edu | // Amiga Man *Professional Student| or just "Hey putz!" | \X/ At Large!
lou@vaxsc (02/21/91)
In article <9279@hub.ucsb.edu>, Parik Rao <6600prao@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu> writes: >3] A macintosh is for those of us who hate to look >at computer moniters and want to get something done >*FAST*. You get in, you get out. Personally, I >like to spend more time with a project so I don't >like using macs. > >Anyways, look at what you wanna do. If you wish to I'd like to add that Compuserve recently did a study of Mac Users vs PC users doing word processing and found some interesting results. I don't remember all the numbers, but essentially the study found that students using Mac's for all their word processing generally wrote on an 8th grade level, and had a large number of grammatical errors. Comparable students using PC's for the same tasks wrote on an 11th grade level with less grammatical errors. The people doing the study did confess that the Mac users work was laid out better, and was more "polished". IMHO this says that Mac's are great if all you care about is "flash and glitz". It sounds like illiteracy is spreading into the computer world also, Not only do you not have to know anything about a computer to operate one, you don't even have to be able to read and/or write. Remember, this is IMHO, based on the study cited above. I don't even know how accurate that study was, but it seems plausible. I wish they would've included the Amiga in the study. But I digress. I explicitly concur with Parik, it depends on what you want to Do! Spend some time with each machine (at dealers or whatever). If ease of access to materials is important, perhaps a PC is a good choice. If you wish to explore your own creativity perhaps the Amiga is your best choice. And if you like flashy, glitzy, no content (oops, IMHO) albeit professional looking reports, perhaps a Mac is worth the extra cost. But make sure you buy the machine because it does what you want it to do! ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Lou Williams Via Bitnet : william8@niehs.bitnet Via Internet: lou@vaxsc.niehs.nih.gov Computer Sciences Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Sometimes in order to feel better about yourself, you have to make others feel bad, and I'm tired of making others feel good about themselves. -Homer Simpson. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please send flames to alt.rec.alt.rec...., recall I said this is IMHO.
David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) (02/22/91)
Well, let me put it this way: I have two machines, an Amiga 500 with 5MB RAM and 150MB HD, and a Philips 486 with 4MB ram and 320MB HD. Using Windows (mainly Excel and Word for Windows) the 386 is a very nice setup... I was tempted to switch to MS-DOS advocacy (at least Windows advocacy) until I realized that the 386 setup cost about 10,000 and the Amiga setup cost about 3000 (ram and HD included in both prices). So, if money is no object, you have a tough choice ahead of you. If, however, you have some form of budget to adhere to, the choice is a little more obvious. On an 8MHz Amiga, Intuition is nice. At 25MHz, its wonderful. At 25MHz, Windows is nice. -- David Plummer - via FidoNet node 1:140/22 UUCP: ...!herald!weyr!70!David.Plummer Domain: David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG Standard Disclaimers Apply...
pwg8482@isc.rit.edu (P.W. Gousios ) (02/22/91)
In article <45378@nigel.ee.udel.edu> lou@vaxsc writes: > >In article <9279@hub.ucsb.edu>, Parik Rao <6600prao@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu> writes: >>Anyways, look at what you wanna do. >Spend some time with each machine. Decide what you want to do with the computer. Often people I know ask me what computer to buy. They seem to have this notion that they want a computer. but no idea why. Most of my reasons for settling on an A3000 are the following I wanted a 32bit machine. I wanted to avoid Intel segmented architecture/small/medium/huge/tiny/ memory model and other wierd processor considerations. I wanted future path to UNIX. I wanted a "fast" machine, and could afford the educational price. I wanted some color abilities (I am not ready to shell out for current 24 bit color) though, would enjoy having it. I wanted a multitasking operating system that: does not require special programming considerations for basic programs. was always a multitasking operating system (instead of an afterthough) I wanted integrated sound/ Not an add on board. I wanted expandability (read slots) I found the CLI/icon duality an excellent feature. I can use the mouse for when I am lazy, and the cli when I have something specific in mind. I liked the speed advantage of the SCSI disk interface/hard disk. For me a Mac with similar processor performance/expansion ability was not worth the extra cost. I have used enough MS/PC-DOS to realize I would want/need xenix before getting a real multitasking system. Obviously the amiga has other advantages as well as the list I had, and for other situations the other computers have advantages over the amiga. If you find that some of the characteristics/tradeoffs I listed are important to you, then you may find that the Amiga will satisfy your needs at the best price. Pete G. pwg8482@ultb.isc.rit.edu peteg@ritcsh.csh.rit.edu
saffe@lut.fi (Petri Savolainen) (02/22/91)
Hmmm. A dream-machine: A3000UX with a '386 emulator (is there? build one if not ;)) With: Lots of memory (shareable) and a BIG HD (also shareable) and SVGA-card. -Saffe- *dreaming*
DEB110@psuvm.psu.edu (Doug Bischoff) (02/27/91)
It's really nice to see some people being serious about why to buy an Amiga rather than just "Well, obviously it's the best machine there is! Get a clue, man." They're all right... find out which of the computers fits your needs best and go from there. Ya can't lose. /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | -Doug Bischoff- | *** *** ====--\ | "I'm not God... | | -DEB110 @ PSUVM- | * *** * ==|<>\___ | I was just | | -The Black Ring- | *** *** |______\ | misquoted!"| | --- "Wheels" --- | *** O O | -Dave Lister | | Corwyn Blakwolfe | T.R.I. ------------- | RED DWARF | \---- DEB110@PSUVM.PSU.EDU D.BISCHOFF on GEnie THIRDMAN on PAN -----/
mikeg@amiganet.chi.il.us (Mike Glass) (03/06/91)
Advice:
DON'T BUY A MAC.
lemme repeat that in case you missed it.
DON'T BUY A MAC.
once more.
DON'T BUY A MAC. DON'T EVER EVEN CONSIDER PURCHASING SUCH A
PITIFULLY HORRIBLE
COMPUTER (I USE THE TERM LOOSELY).
You will spend a mint on a computer that has no flexibility what-so-ever, and
if you are majoring in computers, why would you need a 'USER FRIENDLY'
computer? Yes, the Ami is User Friendly, but not to the point, where the
power of the computer is limited. IBMs, well, I won't tell you no cuz it
seems to be popular at your college, but I have heard that IBM really stands
for Incredibly Bad Machines. AMI IS THE WAY TO GO!!!
Amiga is the one & only.
Amiga is THE one & only.
AMIGA is the one & only.
Amiga IS the one & only.
Amiga is the ONE & only.
Amiga is the one & ONLY.
Get the point?
Mike Glass | Friends don't let |
Highland Park, IL | friends use |
| MACS (or MS-DOS) |
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
whos@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Ben Feen) (03/07/91)
I know this really isn't nice, but... I like IBM's because they break down more cleanly. Ibm's don't GURU - They "Run-time error at ..." and drop to dos. -- whos@ddsw1.MCS.COM | I don't know, who's at DDSW1? | whos@ddsw1.MCS.COM! I asked YOU who's at DDSW1! Ok, there's a guy at DDSW1, right? | Right! Who? | Exactly! | What? | No, he's at lll-winken. | Where? | No, What! | I don't know! | He's at gargoyle. | Who? | No, he's at DDSW1.MCS.COM!
rjc@geech.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (03/07/91)
In article <1991Mar07.004452.1738@ddsw1.MCS.COM> whos@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Ben Feen) writes: >I know this really isn't nice, but... I like IBM's because they break down >more cleanly. Ibm's don't GURU - They "Run-time error at ..." and drop to >dos. That's weird. In the majority of situations I've encountered, they just _lock_ up and do nothing. I remember a situation at a doctor's office once when a secretary was entering some of my info into their billing database. The machine froze up. She spent 30 minutes on the phone with a consultant (I had to wait in the meantime) when they came up with the brilliant idea to hit CTRL-ALT-DEL. >-- >whos@ddsw1.MCS.COM | I don't know, who's at DDSW1? | whos@ddsw1.MCS.COM! >I asked YOU who's at DDSW1! Ok, there's a guy at DDSW1, right? | Right! >Who? | Exactly! | What? | No, he's at lll-winken. | Where? | No, What! | I >don't know! | He's at gargoyle. | Who? | No, he's at DDSW1.MCS.COM!
greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Harp) (03/07/91)
[Please respect the Followup-To: line. After all, this stuff has a proper home, not that I don't enjoy a good chance to flame a MessyDOS box.] In article <1991Mar07.004452.1738@ddsw1.MCS.COM> whos@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Ben Feen) writes: >I know this really isn't nice, but... I like IBM's because they break down >more cleanly. Ibm's don't GURU - They "Run-time error at ..." and drop to >dos. Uh, I hate to tell you, but any when you have errors like the type that cause Guru's on an Amiga on a MessyDOS machine, it just dies. I don't call a trashed screen, a locked up keyboard, and sometimes the need to power down the machine a "clean" break down. I've experienced too many of these to count (Why? I develop for them -- hey, it pays the bills). The types of recoverable errors that occur under MessyDOS are about as equally recoverable under AmigaDOS. You sometimes get more crashes because some poor sap doesn't understand that more than one program might want some resource at the same time, but that's a liability under a multitasking OS. AmigaDOS 2.0 is much more stable than even 1.3, so I don't think it's going too far to say it's several times as stable as MessyDOS 3.3. As for 4.01 and up, I don't really have to say it, do I? :) Greg -- Greg Harp |"How I wish, how I wish you were here. We're just two |lost souls swimming in a fishbowl, year after year, greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu|running over the same ground. What have we found? s609@cs.utexas.edu |The same old fears. Wish you were here." - Pink Floyd
GHGAQZ4@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (03/07/91)
>I know this really isn't nice, but... I like IBM's because they break down >more cleanly. Ibm's don't GURU - They "Run-time error at ..." and drop to >dos. This is not really true. The run-time errors you are referring to are something specific to programs made with the borland turbo languages. Maybe some other languages support them too. I've programmed a lot on IBM PC's and I know they do crash a lot without telling you anything at all. My programs were even written in Turbo Pascal. The errors trapped by Turbo Pascal are only some easy detectable errors. Jorrit Tyberghein
lou@vaxsc (03/08/91)
Sorry, this isnt amiga related, but it had to be said... In article <1991Mar07.004452.1738@ddsw1.MCS.COM>, Ben Feen <whos@ddsw1.mcs.com> writes: >I know this really isn't nice, but... I like IBM's because they break down >more cleanly. Ibm's don't GURU - They "Run-time error at ..." and drop to >dos. Hello? You haven't used dos for very long have you? Have you never had the infamous STACK OVERFLOW, SYSTEM HALTED error? Or even better yet SYSTEM ERROR, SYSTEM HALTED Gee thanks MicroSoft. No offending address, no stack dump, nothing. Try debugging this garbage! ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Lou Williams Via Bitnet : william8@niehs.bitnet Via Internet: lou@vaxsc.niehs.nih.gov Computer Sciences Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Sometimes in order to feel better about yourself, you have to make others feel bad, and I'm tired of making others feel good about themselves. -Homer Simpson. ---------------------------------------------------------------- All opinions are mine, all mine.
v125lqbx@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Brian T McColpin) (03/08/91)
In article <1991Mar07.004452.1738@ddsw1.MCS.COM>, whos@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Ben Feen) writes... >I know this really isn't nice, but... I like IBM's because they break down >more cleanly. Ibm's don't GURU - They "Run-time error at ..." and drop to >dos. I've had them, plenty of times, lock up so thoroughly that CTR-ALT-DEL won't do a reboot. My Amiga has never needed a hardboot (so far :-).
reher@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Jay R. Reher) (03/09/91)
In article <1991Mar07.004452.1738@ddsw1.MCS.COM> whos@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Ben Feen) writes: >I know this really isn't nice, but... I like IBM's because they break down >more cleanly. Ibm's don't GURU - They "Run-time error at ..." and drop to >dos. > This simply proves your inadequate knowledge of an amiga and exactly what a GURU implies. I have plenty of experience on MS-DOS machines and beleive me, They rarely just run time at .... then drop to dos. Haven't you ever had to ctrl-alt-delete to get out of a buggy program ??? I have had to plenty of times (yes on MS-DOS machines). Amigas, instead of just sitting there like an oversized paperweight, determine that the program has errored and tell you what has happened.. such guru errors as not enough memory and things similar to segmentation faults on Unix systems are common. So don't tell me that your IBM crashes better. I have noticed that most of the insulters of AMIGA actually have very little knowledge of the machine and all of its capabilities. This shows me the impressive quality of amiga users themselves, only a few amiga users have trashed the mac or ibm on egotistical matters, while the mac and ibm users have to resort to that sort of bashing to feel better about their machines, Thank you amiga users for showing your fortitude... Jay Reher ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /\ //\\ When you enough care to //__\\ use the very BEST ! \\// \\ \/ \\ MIGA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) (03/11/91)
*In a message dated 07 Mar 91 00:05:06 Mike Glass writes:
MG> From: mikeg@amiganet.chi.il.us (Mike Glass)
MG> Date: 6 Mar 91 01:01:46 GMT
MG> Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems
MG> Message-ID: <mikeg.7688@amiganet.chi.il.us>
MG> Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
MG>
MG> Advice:
MG> DON'T BUY A MAC.
MG> lemme repeat that in case you missed it.
MG> DON'T BUY A MAC.
MG> once more.
MG> DON'T BUY A MAC. DON'T EVER EVEN CONSIDER PURCHASING SUCH A
MG> PITIFULLY HORRIBLE
MG> COMPUTER (I USE THE TERM LOOSELY).
MG> You will spend a mint on a computer that has no flexibility
MG> what-so-ever, and
MG> if you are majoring in computers, why would you need a 'USER
MG> FRIENDLY'
MG> computer? Yes, the Ami is User Friendly, but not to the point,
MG> where the
MG> power of the computer is limited. IBMs, well, I won't tell you no
MG> cuz it
MG> seems to be popular at your college, but I have heard that IBM
MG> really stands
MG> for Incredibly Bad Machines. AMI IS THE WAY TO GO!!!
MG> Amiga is the one & only.
MG> Amiga is THE one & only.
MG> AMIGA is the one & only.
MG> Amiga IS the one & only.
MG> Amiga is the ONE & only.
MG> Amiga is the one & ONLY.
MG> Get the point?
MG>
MG> Mike Glass | Friends don't let |
MG> Highland Park, IL | friends use |
MG> | MACS (or MS-DOS) |
MG> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MG>
And besides, Amiga owners are a far more intellectual and mature
group of owners.
--
David Plummer - via FidoNet node 1:140/22
UUCP: ...!herald!weyr!70!David.Plummer
Domain: David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Standard Disclaimers Apply...
cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) (03/12/91)
In article <112.27DC6FA6@weyr.FIDONET.ORG> David.Plummer@f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) writes: > MG> Advice: > MG> DON'T BUY A MAC. > MG> lemme repeat that in case you missed it. > MG> DON'T BUY A MAC. > MG> once more. > MG> DON'T BUY A MAC. DON'T EVER EVEN CONSIDER PURCHASING SUCH A > MG> PITIFULLY HORRIBLE > MG> COMPUTER (I USE THE TERM LOOSELY). > MG> You will spend a mint on a computer that has no flexibility > MG> what-so-ever, and > MG> if you are majoring in computers, why would you need a 'USER > MG> FRIENDLY' > MG> computer? Yes, the Ami is User Friendly, but not to the point, > MG> where the > MG> power of the computer is limited. IBMs, well, I won't tell you no > MG> cuz it > MG> seems to be popular at your college, but I have heard that IBM > MG> really stands > MG> for Incredibly Bad Machines. AMI IS THE WAY TO GO!!! > MG> Amiga is the one & only. > MG> Amiga is THE one & only. > MG> AMIGA is the one & only. > MG> Amiga IS the one & only. > MG> Amiga is the ONE & only. > MG> Amiga is the one & ONLY. > MG> Get the point? > MG> > MG> Mike Glass | Friends don't let | > MG> Highland Park, IL | friends use | > MG> | MACS (or MS-DOS) | > MG> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > MG> > >And besides, Amiga owners are a far more intellectual and mature >group of owners. > >David Plummer - via FidoNet node 1:140/22 You forgot to mention all the wonderful Amiga business and CAD software, the quality spreadsheets, ease-of-use, user support... etc. The Amiga has plenty of good points but you can tell somebody who hasn't spent time using quality software on other machines. -- Colin Adams Shadowplay James Cook University Amiga Developers Computer Science Department Internet : cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au
lou@vaxsc (03/13/91)
In article <1991Mar12.101855.28437@marlin.jcu.edu.au>, Colin Adams <cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au> writes: >The Amiga has plenty of good points but you can tell somebody who >hasn't spent time using quality software on other machines. > >-- >Colin Adams Shadowplay >James Cook University Amiga Developers >Computer Science Department >Internet : cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au You also can't tell somebody something when they already "know-it-all". And I haven't met a Mac user yet who wasn't a know-it-all. But I'm still hoping someday I will... Oh yea, this is just opinion, mine, and basically worthless commentary. flames to /dev/null please. ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Lou Williams Via Bitnet : william8@niehs.bitnet Via Internet : lou@vaxsc.niehs.nih.gov Computer Sciences Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Sometimes in order to feel better about yourself, you have to make others feel bad, and I'm tired of making others feel good about themselves. -Homer Simpson. ----------------------------------------------------------------
erk@americ.UUCP (Erick Parsons) (03/17/91)
>In article <1991Mar9.040733.26395@ucunix.san.uc.edu> reher@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Jay R. Reher) writes: >In article <1991Mar07.004452.1738@ddsw1.MCS.COM> whos@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Ben Feen) writes: >>I know this really isn't nice, but... I like IBM's because they break down >>more cleanly. Ibm's don't GURU - They "Run-time error at ..." and drop to >>dos. >> > > This simply proves your inadequate knowledge of an amiga and exactly >what a GURU implies. I have plenty of experience on MS-DOS machines and >beleive me, They rarely just run time at .... then drop to dos. Haven't you >ever had to ctrl-alt-delete to get out of a buggy program ??? I have had to >plenty of times (yes on MS-DOS machines). Amigas, instead of just sitting there >like an oversized paperweight, determine that the program has errored and tell >you what has happened.. such guru errors as not enough memory and things But that is not the end, if you are lucky enough to have a terminal hooked to your serial port, the Amiga will allow you use of the Debugger, IN ROM ! while the machine is GURU'd. Its a simple monitor program that allows full access to all memory locations for inspection and a readout of the registers at crash time ! Viva la Amiga ! -- Erick Parsons, Sacramento erick@sactoh0.sac.ca.us <-- Right off the freeway -- {ames att sun }!pacbell!sactoh0!pacengr!americ!erk <-- At the end of the road --