jimb@amiglynx.UUCP (Jim Bednar) (03/09/91)
The mac classic costs nowhere around the price of a amiga.. A classic lists for $999.00 and the Amiga 500 lists for $850.00.. Get your facts straight.. And why buy a Classic when an AMIGA can emulate it, hell it can emulate just about every computer on the market.. Ok. Lets move on.. How much is a decent frame buffer for the Mac? about 4000-5000 bux.. For the Amiga? you have many choises like DCTV $400.00 Firecracker24 $1400.00 Toaster $1500.00.. FOR ALL YOU PEOPLE THINKING OF BUYING MAC'S GO TO YOUR NEAREST AMIGA DEALER AND PICK YOURSELF UP A REAL COMPUTER... Jim
lord_zar@ucrmath.ucr.edu (wayne wallace) (03/11/91)
jimb@amiglynx.UUCP (Jim Bednar) writes: > The mac classic costs nowhere around the price of a amiga.. A classic lists >for $999.00 and the Amiga 500 lists for $850.00.. Get your facts straight.. >Jim. I will. The Amiga 500 is $500 at Software Etc. :) Macs, suck off! Wayne
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (03/11/91)
In article <jimb.3408@amiglynx.UUCP> jimb@amiglynx.UUCP (Jim Bednar) writes: > > The mac classic costs nowhere around the price of a amiga.. A classic lists >for $999.00 and the Amiga 500 lists for $850.00.. Get your facts straight.. >And why buy a Classic when an AMIGA can emulate it, hell it can emulate just >about every computer on the market.. Ok. Lets move on.. How much is a decent >frame buffer for the Mac? about 4000-5000 bux.. For the Amiga? you have many >choises like DCTV $400.00 Firecracker24 $1400.00 Toaster $1500.00.. > > FOR ALL YOU PEOPLE THINKING OF BUYING MAC'S GO TO YOUR NEAREST AMIGA DEALER >AND PICK YOURSELF UP A REAL COMPUTER... > >Jim Time to put some realism back into this discussion. No matter how much I like my Amiga, the Mac is not so far behind that we can dismiss it so easily as Jim Bednar did. The Mac Classic sells for about $750 on educational pricing. You can get it with 2MB of RAM and a 40MB HD for $1,200 or so on educational pricing. The A500 doesn't even compare to that price. If you get an A500 with A590, for the same price you get 1MB of RAM and a 20MB HD. As to frame-buffers, first, DCTV is not a frame buffer. Second, FireCracker and the Toaster may be color frame-buffers, but they require a 2000, so it isn't fair to compare with the 500/Classic. Finally, for that price range, i.e. $1,500, you can get 24-bit frame-buffers, and using 32-bit quickdraw which allows the whole operating system including the finder and all applications to transparently work in the 24-bit mode. That is impossible to do today on the Amiga no matter how much you spend. $4K-5K is just not the case. And I'm glad you only posted that to comp.sys.amiga, cause if you'd cross-posted the flames would never end. -- Ethan Upon leaving office, Ronald Reagan began renting an office in the penthouse of the Fox Plaza, the Los Angeles high-rise used as the location for the terrorist movie "Die Hard".
rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (03/11/91)
In article <1991Mar10.192823.30103@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >In article <jimb.3408@amiglynx.UUCP> jimb@amiglynx.UUCP (Jim Bednar) writes: >> >> The mac classic costs nowhere around the price of a amiga.. A classic lists >>for $999.00 and the Amiga 500 lists for $850.00.. Get your facts straight.. >>And why buy a Classic when an AMIGA can emulate it, hell it can emulate just >>about every computer on the market.. Ok. Lets move on.. How much is a decent >>frame buffer for the Mac? about 4000-5000 bux.. For the Amiga? you have many >>choises like DCTV $400.00 Firecracker24 $1400.00 Toaster $1500.00.. >> >> FOR ALL YOU PEOPLE THINKING OF BUYING MAC'S GO TO YOUR NEAREST AMIGA DEALER >>AND PICK YOURSELF UP A REAL COMPUTER... >> >>Jim > > Time to put some realism back into this discussion. No >matter how much I like my Amiga, the Mac is not so far behind >that we can dismiss it so easily as Jim Bednar did. The Mac >Classic sells for about $750 on educational pricing. You can get ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The A500 sells for $500 street price. Do you get Color with the Classic? A keyboard? >it with 2MB of RAM and a 40MB HD for $1,200 or so on educational >pricing. The A500 doesn't even compare to that price. If you get >an A500 with A590, for the same price you get 1MB of RAM and a >20MB HD. Why get an A590? There are plenty of other controllers out there, albeit not asfast as the 590/2091, but the SLOWEST DMA controller you can find for the Amiga will still beat the pants off a Mac Classic with its 6502 CPU controller. The A500 can't be compared with the classic, because the classic is just too slow. The Amiga's custom chips, and color would have to be removed. > As to frame-buffers, first, DCTV is not a frame buffer. >Second, FireCracker and the Toaster may be color frame-buffers, >but they require a 2000, so it isn't fair to compare with the >500/Classic. Finally, for that price range, i.e. $1,500, you can >get 24-bit frame-buffers, and using 32-bit quickdraw which allows ^^^^^ Which costs $$$ and can't animate worth sh*t like DCTV, HAM-E and ColorBurst can. I don't care how much people whine about HAM-E and other such things not being 'full 24-bit palette mapped'. They are an acceptable midway, for cheap animation. Most people can't afford the amount of memory it would take to animate 24bit in real time. The differences between DCTV and HAM-E and REAL 24-bit will be slight. Hardly noticable when animating. Colorburst can display up to 48-bits of information in its frame-buffer. Yep, 24 bits of palette map, plus 24 bits of overlay. And it only costs $400. Yes it will be some time before the DIG/RTG problem is resolved, but for now, Patches to intuition/graphics is acceptable(HAM-E works perfectly with the OS). 256 color icons are pretty, but a waste of time and storage space. Face it, the only real need for 24 bits is graphics work like painting, rendering, animating, and digitizing. This can all be done with powerful packages like ADpro, Image Professional, etc. >the whole operating system including the finder and all >applications to transparently work in the 24-bit mode. That is >impossible to do today on the Amiga no matter how much you spend. Not impossible, just harder. If the graphic card has a fast enough data transfer rate, the OS can be patched in the vital areas to update the display in real time. I'm not saying it's a solution, but it's a short term fix to a problem that should have been solved in 1985. Beating a dead horse isn't going to fix it either, and you and I both know Commodore is working on it, we justhave to be patient. >$4K-5K is just not the case. > And I'm glad you only posted that to comp.sys.amiga, >cause if you'd cross-posted the flames would never end. > -- Ethan > > > Upon leaving office, Ronald Reagan began renting an >office in the penthouse of the Fox Plaza, the Los Angeles >high-rise used as the location for the terrorist movie "Die >Hard". Cheers... Ray() -- replies to rjc@albert.ai.mit.edu
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (03/11/91)
In article <lord_zar.668632887@ucrmath> lord_zar@ucrmath.ucr.edu (wayne wallace) writes: >jimb@amiglynx.UUCP (Jim Bednar) writes: > > >> The mac classic costs nowhere around the price of a amiga.. A classic lists >>for $999.00 and the Amiga 500 lists for $850.00.. Get your facts straight.. > >>Jim. > >I will. The Amiga 500 is $500 at Software Etc. :) >Macs, suck off! > >Wayne That Amiga has only 512K of RAM. The list prices mentioned above for Macs and Amigas include 1MB of RAM. -- Ethan Upon leaving office, Ronald Reagan began renting an office in the penthouse of the Fox Plaza, the Los Angeles high-rise used as the location for the terrorist movie "Die Hard".
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (03/11/91)
In article <1991Mar10.204119.22113@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: >> Time to put some realism back into this discussion. No >>matter how much I like my Amiga, the Mac is not so far behind >>that we can dismiss it so easily as Jim Bednar did. The Mac >>Classic sells for about $750 on educational pricing. You can get > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > The A500 sells for $500 street price. Do you get Color with the Classic? >A keyboard? > As I said in a previous post, that only includes 512K of RAM. And the classic includes a keyboard. The prices are close enough that the Mac can't simply be dismissed. For those who can use the compatibility it can make the difference. >>it with 2MB of RAM and a 40MB HD for $1,200 or so on educational >>pricing. The A500 doesn't even compare to that price. If you get >>an A500 with A590, for the same price you get 1MB of RAM and a >>20MB HD. > > Why get an A590? There are plenty of other controllers out there, albeit >not asfast as the 590/2091, but the SLOWEST DMA controller you can >find for the Amiga will still beat the pants off a Mac Classic with >its 6502 CPU controller. The A590 is Commodore's product, so it has some official nature to it. It also has an educational price which still doesn't come close to a Classic 2/40. > > The A500 can't be compared with the classic, because the classic is >just too slow. The Amiga's custom chips, and color would have to be >removed. Color is nice, and it has its values, but a lot of people buy a Mac simply to get school-work done on. A LOT of people. Microsoft Word and MacDraw get most of the attention. As to speed, although the Amiga's interface is faster, for the hardcore work, i.e. CPU work, they have an 8MHz 68000. Essentially the speed there is the same. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't sell my Amiga, but with Apple's new pricing they have brought themselves much closer to the mainstream. > >> As to frame-buffers, first, DCTV is not a frame buffer. >>Second, FireCracker and the Toaster may be color frame-buffers, >>but they require a 2000, so it isn't fair to compare with the >>500/Classic. Finally, for that price range, i.e. $1,500, you can >>get 24-bit frame-buffers, and using 32-bit quickdraw which allows > ^^^^^ > Which costs $$$ and can't animate worth sh*t like DCTV, HAM-E and >ColorBurst can. I don't care how much people whine about HAM-E and >other such things not being 'full 24-bit palette mapped'. They are >an acceptable midway, for cheap animation. Most people can't afford >the amount of memory it would take to animate 24bit in real time. >The differences between DCTV and HAM-E and REAL 24-bit will be slight. >Hardly noticable when animating. Colorburst can display up to 48-bits >of information in its frame-buffer. Yep, 24 bits of palette map, plus >24 bits of overlay. And it only costs $400. With that paragraph I was just clearing up some fallacies made by the poster, not drawing conclusions, except that 32 bit quickdraw is something we don't have. >>the whole operating system including the finder and all >>applications to transparently work in the 24-bit mode. That is >>impossible to do today on the Amiga no matter how much you spend. >Not impossible, just harder. If the graphic card has a fast enough >data transfer rate, the OS can be patched in the vital areas to update the >display in real time. I'm not saying it's a solution, but it's a >short term fix to a problem that should have been solved in 1985. >Beating a dead horse isn't going to fix it either, and you and I both >know Commodore is working on it, we justhave to be patient. > It may be possible to patch the OS, but no one has done it yet. I can only assume that MAST, BBS and DC haven't done it because it would be too difficult, or they are still working on it. The Toaster and Firecracker can't. And yes, Commodore is working on it. And that satisfies me. But it is a valid point nonetheless. The poster made a very one-sided post which ignored many facts of reality, which is why my first sentence was to bring reality back to the discussion. -- Ethan Upon leaving office, Ronald Reagan began renting an office in the penthouse of the Fox Plaza, the Los Angeles high-rise used as the location for the terrorist movie "Die Hard".
rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) (03/12/91)
In article <jimb.3408@amiglynx.UUCP>, jimb@amiglynx.UUCP (Jim Bednar) writes: > The mac classic costs nowhere around the price of a amiga.. A classic lists > for $999.00 and the Amiga 500 lists for $850.00.. Get your facts straight.. > And why buy a Classic when an AMIGA can emulate it, hell it can emulate just > about every computer on the market.. Ok. Lets move on.. How much is a decent > frame buffer for the Mac? about 4000-5000 bux.. For the Amiga? you have many > choises like DCTV $400.00 Firecracker24 $1400.00 Toaster $1500.00.. Well, it would be nice to have a monitor for your Amiga, which would easily cast the $150 dollars difference. Plus you get access to a lot of professional software, more than the Amiga market could dream about. All I hear about is how great the toaster is, but nobody discusses the price required for a complete set-up, which was discussed in the latest Byte issue to be around $25,000 including an Amiga. This seems far out of reach for your home user. > FOR ALL YOU PEOPLE THINKING OF BUYING MAC'S GO TO YOUR NEAREST AMIGA DEALER > AND PICK YOURSELF UP A REAL COMPUTER... > > Jim Really, for most people, they should figure out what they want to use a computer for before making any decisions. Really, to a majority of people who ask me what computer they should buy, I couldn't recommend an Amiga or Atari over a Mac or IBM clone. Any computer with a 680X0 in it is a real computer!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ryan 'Gozar' Collins Question for IBM Users: rlcollins@miavx1.BITNET |||| Power Without How DO you move/copy a rc1dsanu@miamiu.BITNET / || \ The Price!! Subdirectory? R.COLLINS1 on GEnie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) (03/12/91)
In article <1991Mar10.204119.22113@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>, rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: > In article <1991Mar10.192823.30103@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >>In article <jimb.3408@amiglynx.UUCP> jimb@amiglynx.UUCP (Jim Bednar) writes: >>> >>> The mac classic costs nowhere around the price of a amiga.. A classic lists >>>for $999.00 and the Amiga 500 lists for $850.00.. Get your facts straight.. >>>And why buy a Classic when an AMIGA can emulate it, hell it can emulate just >>> >>that we can dismiss it so easily as Jim Bednar did. The Mac >>Classic sells for about $750 on educational pricing. You can get > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > The A500 sells for $500 street price. Do you get Color with the Classic? > A keyboard? > >>it with 2MB of RAM and a 40MB HD for $1,200 or so on educational >>pricing. The A500 doesn't even compare to that price. If you get >>an A500 with A590, for the same price you get 1MB of RAM and a >>20MB HD. > > Why get an A590? There are plenty of other controllers out there, albeit > not asfast as the 590/2091, but the SLOWEST DMA controller you can > find for the Amiga will still beat the pants off a Mac Classic with > its 6502 CPU controller. Its only the IIfx that has a 6502 controller in it. (Two as a matter of fact) But these are not utilized except with System 7 or AUX > The A500 can't be compared with the classic, because the classic is > just too slow. The Amiga's custom chips, and color would have to be > removed. To the market the A500 and classic is geared to, speed is not an issue, only ease of use and marketbility. The Classic is ideal for education due to the fact that it is compact and very easy to network. Logically, to the new computer user, could you really recommend an Amiga 500 over a Mac Classic? (especially a computer neophyte?) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ryan 'Gozar' Collins Question for IBM Users: rlcollins@miavx1.BITNET |||| Power Without How DO you move/copy a rc1dsanu@miamiu.BITNET / || \ The Price!! Subdirectory? R.COLLINS1 on GEnie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
zerkle@iris.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle) (03/12/91)
Aaaargh! Enough already! If your post compares the Amiga to any
other computer (and especially the Mac):
TAKE IT TO .ADVOCACY!!!
Why do you think we created the group, already?
Dan Zerkle zerkle@iris.eecs.ucdavis.edu (916) 754-0240
Amiga... Because life is too short for boring computers.rjc@geech.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (03/12/91)
In article <4209.27db9885@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) writes: >In article <jimb.3408@amiglynx.UUCP>, jimb@amiglynx.UUCP (Jim Bednar) writes: >> The mac classic costs nowhere around the price of a amiga.. A classic lists >> for $999.00 and the Amiga 500 lists for $850.00.. Get your facts straight.. >> And why buy a Classic when an AMIGA can emulate it, hell it can emulate just >> about every computer on the market.. Ok. Lets move on.. How much is a decent >> frame buffer for the Mac? about 4000-5000 bux.. For the Amiga? you have many >> choises like DCTV $400.00 Firecracker24 $1400.00 Toaster $1500.00.. > >Well, it would be nice to have a monitor for your Amiga, which would easily >cast the $150 dollars difference. Plus you get access to a lot of >professional software, more than the Amiga market could dream about. Yea but that $150 monitor would be COLOR, not B&W like the Mac. With the Amiga, you get access to animation and entertainment software. More than the Mac market could either dream about, or even duplicate on its bloated, expensive hardware. >All I hear about is how great the toaster is, but nobody discusses the >price required for a complete set-up, which was discussed in the latest >Byte issue to be around $25,000 including an Amiga. This seems far out of >reach for your home user. What ever gave you the idea that the toaster was for the home user? The Toaster is a high quality professional device. How many people at home run broadcast quality TV studios? You don't need a complete toaster set up to get work done out of the Toaster. LightWave3d renderer is worth the $1500 price alone.(LightWave comes with the Toaster for free). The complete Toaster set-up can be had for a cheaper price when more Amiga products like the Video Blender are released that eliminate the need for a Time Base corrector. Regardless of this, it's still possible to buy high quality video and animation products much cheaper(and better) on the Amiga than the Mac. At this Friday's AmigaEXPO in New york, MAST is going to release ColorBurst. A True 24bit graphics board that runs on all Amiga's and provides Targa quality graphics. The Colorburst can use up to 48bits per pixel for rendering (24bit palette map, 24bits of overlay). It can also do animation in 24bits, comes with 1.5 mb of onboard memory and a custom VLSI co-processor. All this for only $499. HAM-E is a device which provides a 24bit palette, 8 bit color (256 colors simultaneously) or 18bits(262,000 simultaneously) and works on all amigas. HAM-E can animate in real time just like standard AMiga graphics. Price $300 (I think) DCTV is a device which provides NTSC composite images (approx 4 million colors, 65000 or so simultaneously) and a built in digitizer. It can also animate in real-time, and contains hardware NTSC compression. Price $495 All of these IMHO are better than Mac's STATIC 8bit color display. Any Mac TRUE 24-bit(or 48bit) display board that can do animation will cost a fortune. >> FOR ALL YOU PEOPLE THINKING OF BUYING MAC'S GO TO YOUR NEAREST AMIGA DEALER >> AND PICK YOURSELF UP A REAL COMPUTER... >> >> Jim > >Really, for most people, they should figure out what they want to use a >computer for before making any decisions. Really, to a majority of people >who ask me what computer they should buy, I couldn't recommend an Amiga or >Atari over a Mac or IBM clone. I would. Especially if the personal wants to do multimedia, desktop video, use entertainment software, get Unix, get a fast system, or use Mac software. For a small amount of $$$(compared to what you'd pay for the Mac equivelent) they can choose to emulate a Mac, IBM, or Atari ST. > >Any computer with a 680X0 in it is a real computer!! But not all of them are real Amigas. ;-) >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Ryan 'Gozar' Collins Question for IBM Users: rlcollins@miavx1.BITNET > |||| Power Without How DO you move/copy a rc1dsanu@miamiu.BITNET > / || \ The Price!! Subdirectory? R.COLLINS1 on GEnie >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ There are some programs on the IBM that deal with the FAT directly and allow subdirectories to be moved. Question: Does the Mac even have directories at all or does it simply fake them on a flat 1 dimensional file system?
dinn@ug.cs.dal.ca (Michael "Moose" Dinn) (03/12/91)
In article <4209.27db9885@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) writes: >All I hear about is how great the toaster is, but nobody discusses the >price required for a complete set-up, which was discussed in the latest >Byte issue to be around $25,000 including an Amiga. This seems far out of >reach for your home user. That's an overestimate. A local dealer has the Toaster set up, they told me that they'd sell me the whole setup (A2500/20, 8 M ram, Toaster, 3 monitors, and laserdisk player) for under $5000. Add a time base corrector and a video camera, and that's probably under $10000 still. (I don't know what a TBC costs, nor do I really care, I just like the Toaster :-) -- Michael Dinn, Sysop of the Moose's Swamp - Nova Scotia's largest Amiga BBS +1 (902) 463-0483, 3/12/24/48/96/14,400 baud * 170 Megabytes online School: mdinn@ac.dal.ca, dinn@ug.cs.dal.ca | These are my opinions and Work: 01Moose@ac.dal.ca, 01Moose@dalac.bitnet| noone else's. (blame me :-)
rjc@geech.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (03/12/91)
In article <4210.27db9aac@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) writes: >In article <1991Mar10.204119.22113@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>, rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: >> In article <1991Mar10.192823.30103@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >>>In article <jimb.3408@amiglynx.UUCP> jimb@amiglynx.UUCP (Jim Bednar) writes: >>>> >>>> The mac classic costs nowhere around the price of a amiga.. A classic lists >>>>for $999.00 and the Amiga 500 lists for $850.00.. Get your facts straight.. >>>>And why buy a Classic when an AMIGA can emulate it, hell it can emulate just >>>> >>>that we can dismiss it so easily as Jim Bednar did. The Mac >>>Classic sells for about $750 on educational pricing. You can get >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> The A500 sells for $500 street price. Do you get Color with the Classic? >> A keyboard? >> >>>it with 2MB of RAM and a 40MB HD for $1,200 or so on educational >>>pricing. The A500 doesn't even compare to that price. If you get >>>an A500 with A590, for the same price you get 1MB of RAM and a >>>20MB HD. >> >> Why get an A590? There are plenty of other controllers out there, albeit >> not asfast as the 590/2091, but the SLOWEST DMA controller you can >> find for the Amiga will still beat the pants off a Mac Classic with >> its 6502 CPU controller. > >Its only the IIfx that has a 6502 controller in it. (Two as a matter of >fact) But these are not utilized except with System 7 or AUX Haha. So the Mac has no harddrive DMA whatsoever and all I/O is 100% CPU parasitic. >> The A500 can't be compared with the classic, because the classic is >> just too slow. The Amiga's custom chips, and color would have to be >> removed. > >To the market the A500 and classic is geared to, speed is not an issue, >only ease of use and marketbility. The Classic is ideal for education due >to the fact that it is compact and very easy to network. Speed is not an issue? Speed is always an issue. When I was in 8th grade the computer lab was 20 C64's networked together to 2 disk drives and 2 printers. It took 15 minutes to load a program so all the programs had to be preloaded by the lab assistant 15 minutes before the class begun. It took 20 minutes to get a print out. In education, where you teach computer programming, speed is an issue. If compiles take too long, the student won't be able to debug/finish his program in time. In Word processing, screen updates at such a slow speed will become tiresome. >Logically, to the new computer user, could you really recommend an Amiga >500 over a Mac Classic? (especially a computer neophyte?) I would, knowing that it would benefit him better in the long run. 2.0 roms will be out soon, they make finder look like a toy. Word processing isn't the only computer use ya know. Computers should also be fun, and pleasant to watch. The Amiga's grapics, sound and games look much better than the Classic's static 9" B&W monitor and boring interface. I have already recommended Amiga's to my friends, and personally converted 2 Mac users, 2 IBM users, and 1 Atari ST owner to Amigas. NONE of them regret their purchase. The Amiga 500 isn't the only Amiga computer, it's the cheapest model, however more and more Amiga owners are buying Amiga 2000s, accelerator boards and harddrives. IMHO, once you add a harddrive and memory to an Amiga, the Mac's performance falls way behind (power for price). >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Ryan 'Gozar' Collins Question for IBM Users: rlcollins@miavx1.BITNET > |||| Power Without How DO you move/copy a rc1dsanu@miamiu.BITNET > / || \ The Price!! Subdirectory? R.COLLINS1 on GEnie >------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) (03/12/91)
In article <4210.27db9aac@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) writes: >To the market the A500 and classic is geared to, speed is not an issue, Bull. Speed is *always* an issue. Period. That is why reseach money is constantly being spent on hardware and algorithm development. Motorola could probably sell the 68040 for an order of magnatude (or more!) less if anyone wanted a 1Mhz 68040. If someone tells you the speed of his computer is not an issue, he is either such a neophyte user that he has yet to tax the CPU of his computer, or he is lying. The wonderful thing about computers is that they give you the ability to do amazing things. The other side of the coin is thatthey also reveal to you the things you could do if you had just a few more megs of ram, or a slightly faster CPU. >only ease of use and marketbility. The Classic is ideal for education due >to the fact that it is compact and very easy to network. > >Logically, to the new computer user, could you really recommend an Amiga >500 over a Mac Classic? (especially a computer neophyte?) Certainly. Workbench on the Amiga is every bit as easy(*) to use as the Maciintosh. (*) Easier, really, since when you get to the point where you really need some *power*, you can click that icon that says "Shell". :-) -- Dave Schaumann | dave@cs.arizona.edu | Short .sig's rule!
whitcomb@aurs01.UUCP (Jonathan Whitcomb) (03/13/91)
Let us digress from this happy discussion to think about the basic roots of the conflict. 1. My dad can lick your dad. 2. Spiderman can lick Batman. 3. Led Zepelin rules. 4. My Z can beat your Trans-Am. 5. The Celtics can lick the Lakers. 6. Mine is bigger. Hey, guys! Why don't you all meet out in the parking lot at high noon, drop trou, and settle this thing for good? And now, back to our regularly scheduled flame war... ********************************************************************** Jonathan Whitcomb UUCP: <...!mcnc!aurgate!whitcomb> (919) 850-6231 I'm not a software engineer, Raleigh, NC but I play one on TV.
walter@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Walter Lawlor) (03/13/91)
A Summary: Expires: References: <jimb.3408@amiglynx.UUCP> <4209.27db9885@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: CS Dept, Memorial University of Newfoundland Keywords: nother test, sorry guys...
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (03/13/91)
In article <4210.27db9aac@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) writes: > Logically, to the new computer user, could you really recommend an Amiga > 500 over a Mac Classic? (especially a computer neophyte?) Sure. I used to recommend Macs for neophytes, even over Amigas, but (a) the Amiga has become much nicer, and (b) I can't in good conscience promote Apple products any more. ( and now I'm gonna have to consider dumping my AT&T long distance :-< ) -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch) (03/14/91)
dinn@ug.cs.dal.ca (Michael "Moose" Dinn) writes: >In article <4209.27db9885@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) writes: >>All I hear about is how great the toaster is, but nobody discusses the >>price required for a complete set-up, which was discussed in the latest >>Byte issue to be around $25,000 including an Amiga. This seems far out of >>reach for your home user. The average home user won't have need of the expensive top-of-the-line equipment quoted in Byte either. he won't NEED a time base corrector, sure he'll get some jitter and noise bars, but this is a home production right? he won't NEED high quality 1/4 inch tape or super vhs. he'll be just fine on his normal vhs. >That's an overestimate. A local dealer has the Toaster set up, they told me >that they'd sell me the whole setup (A2500/20, 8 M ram, Toaster, 3 monitors, >and laserdisk player) for under $5000. Add a time base corrector and a >video camera, and that's probably under $10000 still. (I don't know what >a TBC costs, nor do I really care, I just like the Toaster :-) > Yes, that article WAS an overstatement, with the MOST expensive equipment money could buy. >-- > Michael Dinn, Sysop of the Moose's Swamp - Nova Scotia's largest Amiga BBS > +1 (902) 463-0483, 3/12/24/48/96/14,400 baud * 170 Megabytes online > School: mdinn@ac.dal.ca, dinn@ug.cs.dal.ca | These are my opinions and > Work: 01Moose@ac.dal.ca, 01Moose@dalac.bitnet| noone else's. (blame me :-) UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org
jwwalden@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Darc Tangent) (03/14/91)
In article <4209.27db9885@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>, rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) writes: > In article <jimb.3408@amiglynx.UUCP>, jimb@amiglynx.UUCP (Jim Bednar) writes: >> The mac classic costs nowhere around the price of a amiga.. A classic lists >> for $999.00 and the Amiga 500 lists for $850.00.. Get your facts straight.. >> And why buy a Classic when an AMIGA can emulate it, hell it can emulate just >> about every computer on the market.. Ok. Lets move on.. How much is a decent >> frame buffer for the Mac? about 4000-5000 bux.. For the Amiga? you have many >> choises like DCTV $400.00 Firecracker24 $1400.00 Toaster $1500.00.. > > Well, it would be nice to have a monitor for your Amiga, which would easily > cast the $150 dollars difference. Plus you get access to a lot of > professional software, more than the Amiga market could dream about. That price includes a monitor... How much professional software do you need? Do you really need twenty word processors or do you need one that will do the job? I admit that you have a greater selection of software for the Macintosh, but take a look at the Amiga software and you'll probably find a piece of software that will do what you want (especially at the Mac Classic/A500 user's level). If you can't find one, then you have a legitimate problem with the machine, but simple numbers do not tell the complete story by any means. > All I hear about is how great the toaster is, but nobody discusses the > price required for a complete set-up, which was discussed in the latest > Byte issue to be around $25,000 including an Amiga. This seems far out of > reach for your home user. Byte seems to be simply wrong on that point. I'm not sure what they're adding to get that that $25,000 cost, but you simply don't need that much equipment. You might look in on comp.sys.amiga.graphics where Toaster setups were discussed recently, saying what you really need to run one. No one had spent anywhere near $25,000 on a setup or could see why you would want or need to. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Darc Tangent "Quick to judge, quick to anger, jwwalden@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu Slow to understand" - RUSH
850117m@aucs.AcadiaU.ca (Scott Marshall) (03/15/91)
In article <1991Mar10.192823.30103@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > > Time to put some realism back into this discussion. No >matter how much I like my Amiga, the Mac is not so far behind >that we can dismiss it so easily as Jim Bednar did. True, but at least (1) any Amiga will let you work in colour from the word go, (2) any Amiga will let you mutitask (I have a 2MB A-2000, so that may not be so easy for 500 owners...), (3) Amigas do not have the annoying habit of announcing "SORRY! A SYSTEM ERROR OCCURRED!" and shutting down without giving one a chance to find out what is wrong. Incidentally, does the Mac Classic have one or two drives? Nothing pisses me off more than switching disks on a single-drive Mac. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |"The Universe Is One Big Padded Cell; I'm Just Trying To Bounce Off The Wall."||Scott Marshall/850117m@aucs.ca/Box 6241/ASU/Wolfville/NS/Canada/B0P 1Z1/ |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dtiberio@csserv2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (03/19/91)
In article <1991Mar10.192823.30103@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >In article <jimb.3408@amiglynx.UUCP> jimb@amiglynx.UUCP (Jim Bednar) writes: >> >> The mac classic costs nowhere around the price of a amiga.. A classic lists >>for $999.00 and the Amiga 500 lists for $850.00.. Get your facts straight.. >>And why buy a Classic when an AMIGA can emulate it, hell it can emulate just >>about every computer on the market.. Ok. Lets move on.. How much is a decent >>frame buffer for the Mac? about 4000-5000 bux.. For the Amiga? you have many >>choises like DCTV $400.00 Firecracker24 $1400.00 Toaster $1500.00.. >> >> FOR ALL YOU PEOPLE THINKING OF BUYING MAC'S GO TO YOUR NEAREST AMIGA DEALER >>AND PICK YOURSELF UP A REAL COMPUTER... >> >>Jim > > Time to put some realism back into this discussion. No >matter how much I like my Amiga, the Mac is not so far behind >that we can dismiss it so easily as Jim Bednar did. The Mac >Classic sells for about $750 on educational pricing. You can get >it with 2MB of RAM and a 40MB HD for $1,200 or so on educational >pricing. The A500 doesn't even compare to that price. If you get >an A500 with A590, for the same price you get 1MB of RAM and a >20MB HD. I have an A500, 40 mb hard drive, and a 6 meg expansion board, with NO educational discounts, which cost me $500 + $420 + $400 ... not bad. > -- Ethan > > > Upon leaving office, Ronald Reagan began renting an >office in the penthouse of the Fox Plaza, the Los Angeles >high-rise used as the location for the terrorist movie "Die >Hard".
dtiberio@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (03/21/91)
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