cosell@bbn.com (Bernie Cosell) (03/31/91)
ferry@chorus.fr (F. de Jong) writes: }As you have all seen there are very often postings in these two groups with }offers to sell hardware and software. May I remind everybody that these }are not the right groups to post these kind of things in. There is a }special group called comp.sys.amiga.marketplace. That's all nice and tidy, but this is a place where theory fails us and (anarchic) practice serves MUCH better. I can think of no better place to post a game-for-sale than to comp.sys.amiga.games, nor a hard disk to .hardware, etc. If the right thing is being hawked in the right group [selling ATalkIII on csa.games is clearly a nuisance to everyone], I think people should just be left alone. Do you have some specific complaint about such postings, or do you just not like seeing 'rules' flouted? Recall that the big Amiga-newsgroups reorganization was a bit of an experiment, and I think that overall it has been a pretty big success [although I confess I was pretty skeptical]. I don't have a problem deciding that csa.marketplace didn't work out so well in the face of virtually everything else to do with the reorganization being OK. /Bernie\
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (04/09/91)
[Note followup; we have a newsgroup for ranting; please use it early and
often when conversation turns to argument. No matter how great your urge
to express your deeply felt anger at another poster's idiotic inability
to understand your crystal clear logic, the rest of the group just wish
both you bozos would go away; help make the other groups nicer places to
read by restricting acrimony to the proper forum.]
Just a couple of comments on the issues from the guy who created the current
situation.
1) When I ran the vote changing comp.sys.amiga.games from a bogus, 60%
distribution newsgroup to the current legitimate, much better distributed
newsgroup, sale and swapping and general market access news about games
were explicitly _in_ the group charter, following the existing practice.
2) When I ran the grand reorganization, c.s.a.* was rife with
crossposted, frequently _reposted_, forsale articles; the sellers were
frustrated enough to repost often because their ads were being ignored
in the existing, very high traffic groups, and the group readers were
furious and frequently flaming, because the ads were bulking up to as
much as 20% of the articles in groups already tedious in the extreme to
traverse. The reason most ads were ignored, I suspect, is that most
folks with competent news software had "/sale/a:j" in their kill files
for all of c.s.a.*.
3) Over fairly strenuous objections that misc.forsale.computers already
existed, I managed to get c.s.a.marketplace voted in as a newsgroup, so
that there would be an _Amiga specific_ place for _Amiga specific_ ads,
to keep them from being scattershot across all of c.s.a.*.
Those thinking that c.s.a.marketplace is "unsuccessful" haven't bothered
to go and look at the traffic level there.
The clueless few still crossposting to other c.s.a.* groups with their
ads are active nuisances and should be flamed to toast IN EMAIL by
everyone; but even now the immense burden of misplaced ads has been
greatly lightened in the other groups, and of necessity, no one reading
c.s.a.marketplace is going in there killing all articles with "for sale"
in them.
The clueless, whose crosspostings get their articles junked by the
competent news software kill files so that their postings are the only
ones _not_ seen by those reading c.s.a.marketplace, we will always have
with us; USENet attracts the clueless like a dust magnet.
[
Fairly major clue for those lacking even one; you know who you are:
Folks with itchy wallets are just naturally cruising c.s.a.marketplace.
Putting your ad anywhere else is just irritating folks who will
subsequently decide _not_ to buy from such a drip; net sales
transactions depend on a lot of trust and respect on both sides; why
blow your chances with a misplaced ad?
Why not instead do the world and yourself a favor and stick to the
program?
You're not going to miss a single potential customer by putting your ad
_only_ in c.s.a.marketplace; all the potential customers are already
there, circling ads for bargains like sharks on a feeding frenzy.
You have in addition the joyful opportunity to be a decent human being
and a better net citizen, a dramatic change in your usual brain dead
slime mold lifestyle.
]
4) Despite all the above, the existing practice for c.s.a.games at the
time of the reorganization, and the general character of the group as a
place to talk about games including their availability, made it make
sense to leave open the chance for used game ads to occur in c.s.a.games
_as_ _well_ _as_ c.s.a.marketplace, and the reorganization proposal
_explicitly_ mentioned that _several_ times; it is still the case that
game ads are part of the charter of c.s.a.games; this was not changed.
5) No other groups but c.s.a.marketplace and c.s.a.games should have ads
in them; putting your ad crossposted in a group as busy as c.s.a.misc or
c.s.a.hardware is a near guarantee that it will be nailed by anyone
using killfiles, and so never seen even in c.s.a.marketplace. The ads in
c.s.a.games should be game ads _only_, and really, as at least one
poster has mentioned, you're better off putting them instead in
c.s.a.marketplace; that's where the folks with more money than
sense [;-)] are cruising for a bargain; might as well put your ad where
they are most likely to trip over it.
6) I'm glad Ferry posted his original complaints about misplaced ads; it
helps him work through this strong fascist tendency he has, and actually
serves on occassion to remind the c.s.a.* group when things have gone a
little awry. I wish, though, he'd paid better attention to the
reorganization and left c.s.a.games out of his rant.
7) There are smileys everyplace there should be in the above.
/// It's Amiga
/// for me: why
Kent, the man from xanth. \\\/// settle for
<xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> \XX/ anything less?
--
Convener, COMPLETED comp.sys.amiga grand reorganization.