rolee@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Profess'nal Agitator) (04/27/91)
This is addressed primarily to the Commodore people:
I purchased an A3000 25/50 through our math department about two weeks ago.
When it arrived two Tuesdays ago (16th), I spent the better part of last
weekend retrieving the necessary cables from the local dealer, and trying to
mount a Plus 105Q drive that I had cannibalized from my now-sold A2000.
After posting to this newsgroup for some help, and despite following the
instructions that the manual claims will work, I finally gave up Monday
morning and took it in to a service center to be done, thinking it would
take, at most, an afternoon to complete. I was told that my main problem
was controller incompatibility (the drive had been mounted to an ICD
Advantage 2000 controller, which was sold with the A2000) and it should be
ready by 2:00 pm that afternoon.
Now, it is Thursday, and the serviceman wants to charge me $45/hr x 20 hrs =
$900, just to get a drive mounted! He says that since I am a student, he'll
knock off 50%, but this is after he previously told me that he wouldn't go
over $100.
These are my main questions:
1. Is this problem covered under warranty?
I think it should be because Commodore made a claim (in the manual) that I
would be able to attach 7 SCSI devices to the built-in controller, and yet
the system failed when I attempted to install one. Each of the drives
worked fine individually, but they refused to daisy chain. The problem did
not lie in either the terminator resistor packs or the SCSI id. Remember, I
did spend a whole weekend over this, so don't flame me for overlooking these
possibilities.
2. Is there any specific name I can call at Commodore, either West Chester
or their West Coast distributor?
3. What can I do about getting my computer back?
It is past 5pm here right now. But, tomorrow morning, I will be making
calls to the local Better Business Bureau, and talking to school
administration officials about this. The serviceman claims that he had to
do something about ``resetting the matrix'' and all sorts of other things to
the motherboard, and that these adjustments are not covered by the
warranty. That sounds like a load of bull to me. I have owned the computer
for less than a month. Hell, it's been on for less than a day. I am not
about to spend $450 just to get a lousy drive installed, much less the
original $900.
I have also been told that the $100 limit he quoted me earlier is a verbal
agreement, and that the serviceman is bound to it. Furthermore, any attempt
to change that agreement, required that I be notified, which, of course, I
was not. I will gladly pay $100, maybe even $150. That seems reasonable to
me even if it did seem as if the serviceman didn't seem to know completely
what he was doing. He told me that he has been talking with Commodore
service all week, which doesn't inspire a great bit of confidence on my
part, in his abilities. This also worries me that unkosher things may have
been done to my CPU because of possible serviceman incompetence.
Any help from a Commodore employee would be deeply appreciated.
And for any Claremont College net.readers, be wary of Technical Services on
Padua (in Upland).
Thanx in advance,
Agitator
#->
"Caltech -- A Division of rolee@hmcvax.bitnet // BITNET
Harvey Mudd" rolee@jarthur.claremont.edu // InterNet
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IBM PC - Who wants a politically correct computer? \X/ Only AMIGA!
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Roderick Lee "The Professional Agitator" Harvey Mudd Collegerolee@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Profess'nal Agitator) (04/28/91)
Thanx to everyone for all their support and advice for my earlier posting.
To all those technician and service-oriented types, I thought I'd post a
rundown of the invoice, so I wouldn't have to mail each of you individually.
System Diagnostic
Problem Tracing
Configure Dual SCSI Drives
Hard Disk Configuration
Hard Disk Prep
Low-Level Format Drive #1 under KS 2.0
Low-Level Format Drive #2 under KS 2.0
Configure Terminal Resistors
Prepare Correct Matrix Tables
Add/Update File System under KS 2.0
Partition All Drives under KS 2.0
Set Drive Reselect #1 to "Off"
Set Drive Reselect #2 to "On"
With the exception of "Problem Tracing," which he claims to have taken up
the main brunt of the twenty hours, the rest of the work sounds as if it
could be done in under two hours.
Several of you have said that the "Matrix Tables" are a red herring. He
claims that these tables need to be reset on each SCSI device whenever a new
one is added to a chain, which sounds like a load of bull to me also.
Incidentally, he says he used to work for Aegis Development, and was the
co-developor of Sonix. (He disclosed this information to us after he felt we
were questioning his experience with Amigas.) I did not get his name, but
his initials are PB. I'm sure someone on this net could glean the name from
that info and possibly tell me more about his background.
Thanx again for all your support,
Agitator
#->
"Caltech -- A Division of rolee@hmcvax.bitnet // BITNET
Harvey Mudd" rolee@jarthur.claremont.edu // InterNet
-------------- R E M E M B E R B E I J I N G ------------\\-//------------
IBM PC - Who wants a politically correct computer? \X/ Only AMIGA!
============================================================================
Roderick Lee "The Professional Agitator" Harvey Mudd Collegejesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup) (04/28/91)
In article <11926@jarthur.Claremont.EDU> rolee@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Profess'nal Agitator) writes: >System Diagnostic >Problem Tracing >Configure Dual SCSI Drives What does this mean? setting them to different addresses? >Hard Disk Configuration >Hard Disk Prep Those two (I assume) simply means he ran hdtoolbox. >Low-Level Format Drive #1 under KS 2.0 >Low-Level Format Drive #2 under KS 2.0 Wow, he can click on buttons in hdtoolbox (BTW, I can't think what would require that this be done, unless you've been using a bulk-eraser on your drives - low level formats are rarely needed). How much does two mouse clicks cost? (And if these were Qauntum drives, quantums totally ignore low-level format requests, though he might not know this.) >Configure Terminal Resistors If you didn't do this, it does need to be done, which means unmounting the HD from the 2091, yanking 3 removable RP's, and putting it back (say 15 minutes if he's slow and the machine is all buttoned up). Note: I've only rarely seen small 2-drive setups have problems with over-termination, though it should be set up correctly for peace of mind (and over-termination may theoretically slightly shorten the life of the bus drivers on the drives). >Prepare Correct Matrix Tables What is a "matrix table"? I wrote HDToolbox, and _I_ never heard of one. >Add/Update File System under KS 2.0 >Partition All Drives under KS 2.0 >Set Drive Reselect #1 to "Off" >Set Drive Reselect #2 to "On" All fairly simple, all part of hdtoolbox (and explained in the manual), with the exception of turning reselection off, which is simple if you know to do it. Since you didn't explain your original problems, I don't know if this was the problem, but if you were experiencing random lockups (i.e. they were usable, but locked up occasionally when both drives were in use at the same time) then it was reselection, and that was the _only_ thing that needed to be done. (See extensive discussions in the past here on how to do it properly.) Max 1/2 hour with coffee break. >With the exception of "Problem Tracing," which he claims to have taken up >the main brunt of the twenty hours, the rest of the work sounds as if it >could be done in under two hours. I'm told service centers were notified quite a while ago of how to handle reselection problems with 2091's (i.e. turn it off). How far did you get before bringing it to him? >Several of you have said that the "Matrix Tables" are a red herring. He >claims that these tables need to be reset on each SCSI device whenever a new >one is added to a chain, which sounds like a load of bull to me also. The only thing I can even think of is that when you add a new drive, as it says in the manual, you may have to run hdtoolbox and click on the "save changes to drive" for your original drive (it will come up as changed - hdtoolbox figures out that a drive was added and adjusts the "last in chain" flags, but won't save them unless you tell it to). Sorry if I was a bit sarcastic, but a bill of that size to add a HD that costs less than the bill brand new is pretty bizarre. Personally, I would expect a repairman who exceeded the initial estimate to call and get authorization before going beyond it (or at most a little beyond, not several hundred percent beyond). Please note (as usual): these are my _private_ opinions, and are NOT in any way a statement of Commodore or anyone else but myself. Please be circumspect in how you describe them to any others, and do not represent them as anything but personal opinions. -- Randell Jesup, Keeper of AmigaDos, Commodore Engineering. {uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com BIX: rjesup Disclaimer: Nothing I say is anything other than my personal opinion. Thus spake the Master Ninjei: "To program a million-line operating system is easy, to change a man's temperament is more difficult." (From "The Zen of Programming") ;-)
valentin@public.BTR.COM (Valentin Pepelea) (04/28/91)
In article <11926@jarthur.Claremont.EDU> rolee@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Profess'nal Agitator) writes: > >System Diagnostic >Problem Tracing Fine. >Configure Dual SCSI Drives >Hard Disk Configuration >Hard Disk Prep >Low-Level Format Drive #1 under KS 2.0 >Low-Level Format Drive #2 under KS 2.0 >Configure Terminal Resistors >Prepare Correct Matrix Tables >Add/Update File System under KS 2.0 >Partition All Drives under KS 2.0 This is total nonesense. He had no business reformatting your hard drives in order to fix your problem. If the "problem tracking" step above had been done correctly, he would have know quite quickly that simply setting one of the drives' reselect bit to off would have done the trick. >Set Drive Reselect #1 to "Off" >Set Drive Reselect #2 to "On" This is fine too. But it appears that he made a long list of tasks accomplished merely to justify his extravagant bill. >With the exception of "Problem Tracing," which he claims to have taken up >the main brunt of the twenty hours, the rest of the work sounds as if it >could be done in under two hours. More like half an hour. And the installation software does all that for him. >Several of you have said that the "Matrix Tables" are a red herring. He >claims that these tables need to be reset on each SCSI device whenever a new >one is added to a chain, which sounds like a load of bull to me also. You can use this as proof of his incompetence. I suggest that you take the following steps in order to recuperate your A3000: 1. Offer him in person, $100 for his services. If he refuses, 2. Write him (or the manager) a letter, describing what happened, and what your offer is, as well as your rationale behind it. Be brief and concise. Do not go over one page. Include a photocopy of the service bill in the appendix. Do not make any threats, particularly not of a suit. You do not want to appear too eager to drag the %$#@! in court. Allow 2 weeks for a response. If the response is unfavorable, 3. Write a letter reminding him of your first letter. Just mention the subject and dates of the previous letter. Add that if you do not receive an adequate response, you will have to take further action. Again, do not mention legal action. You do not want to give the impression that all you are interested in is grag the %$#@! into court. (Sorry for the re-emphasizing) If still no satisfactory response after two weeks 4. Take him to court. Ask for the A3000 back, in working order, plus a compensation for loss of useage of your computer, minus the $100 for the repair bill. I'm no a lawyer, so don't take the above as legal advice. The guy has no chance of winning, since he promised not to go over $100. Besides, with the cost of an HD controller at $150-200, his bill is so outragous, that the judge migh just leap over the bench to slap him. Valentin -- "An operating system without virtual memory Name: Valentin Pepelea is an operating system without virtue." Phone: (408) 985-1700 Usenet: mips!btr!valentin - Ancient Inca Proverb Internet: valentin@btr.com
collins@Alliant.COM (Phil Collins) (04/30/91)
This does not make sense. If the drive was a pro drive it should not make a difference, if it was an AT drive it would make a difference. This really is not a warranty problem that Commodore would pay for.But a 900 dollar charge!!! Unless we are not getting the whole story you were over charged.