David.Plummer@p0.f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) (04/16/91)
Has anyone had the chance to see the ICD flicker fixer up and running?
I'm considering this unit, as long as it works with standard VGA, and
would like some input from someone who has actually SEEN on running.
Any other info would be handy as well.
Thanks,
Dave (as above or PLUMMERD@MAX.CC.UREGINA.CA)
--
David Plummer - via FidoNet node 1:140/22
UUCP: ...!herald!weyr!70.0!David.Plummer
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Standard Disclaimers Apply...troia@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Paolo V. Troia) (04/17/91)
In article <178.280BE812@weyr.FIDONET.ORG> David.Plummer@p0.f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) writes: >Has anyone had the chance to see the ICD flicker fixer up and running? Yup. I bought one for my A500 a couple of weeks ago and have it running on a PGS Ultrasync (multisync) monitor. It seems to work as advertized by ICD. I have had no problems with it up to this moment. > I'm considering this unit, as long as it works with standard VGA, and >would like some input from someone who has actually SEEN on running. According to the manual, it should also work with a standard VGA monitor for NTSC modes (I'm not sure if it will also support PAL modes). -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paolo V. Troia | Universidad de Puerto Rico | // Amiga p_troia@upr2.clu.net | Recinto Universitario de Mayaguez | \X/ o nada! --------------------------------------------------------------------------
khl@swan.doc.ic.ac.uk (Kang Ho Lee) (04/19/91)
In article <178.280BE812@weyr.FIDONET.ORG> David.Plummer@p0.f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) writes: >Has anyone had the chance to see the ICD flicker fixer up and running? > I'm considering this unit, as long as it works with standard VGA, and >would like some input from someone who has actually SEEN on running. > Hi, I recently bought one and have had to send it back because the damn board was overheating pretty badly. It works for about 5 minutes with the lid on in my A500 and 15 mins with the lid off. The UK agent said they have told ICD about the problem and were still waiting for a fix from them. Basically, after 5 minutes the image becomes very blur, on close inspection, I found that it was the even and odd fields not aligning correctly. > >Any other info would be handy as well. When it does work ( first boot up ), the image is very good, very stable. In its manual, it says that it is compatible with the ECS denise chip, autodetect PAL/NTSC, and will overscan. Not too sure about overscanning, may be it's the monitor I used (a normal VGA monitor), I always have a black border. > >Thanks, >Dave (as above or PLUMMERD@MAX.CC.UREGINA.CA) > > > >-- >David Plummer - via FidoNet node 1:140/22 >UUCP: ...!herald!weyr!70.0!David.Plummer >Domain: David.Plummer@p0.f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG >Standard Disclaimers Apply... -- Kang Ho LEE email : khl@doc.ic.ac.uk Department of Computing address: 180 Queens Gate Imperial College London SW7 2BZ, UK
dbscoop2@bwdlh417.BNR.CA (Alun Fryer) (04/19/91)
In article <178.280BE812@weyr.FIDONET.ORG>, David.Plummer@p0.f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) writes: |>Has anyone had the chance to see the ICD flicker fixer up and running? |> I'm considering this unit, as long as it works with standard VGA, and |>would like some input from someone who has actually SEEN on running. Well, I haven't actually *SEEN* one running BUT, I can tell you a few things: Using a "standard" VGA monitor is not a good idea because it is a single-frequency monitor, which means you cannot use PAL mode (with the one meg Agnus). If you get a "Super" VGA (SVGA) monitor, you will be able to use PAL (since SVGA monitors will adjust to different frequency within a limited range). Also, most VGA and SVGA do not seem to have horizontal size adjust, and from what I have been told about ICD's FFV, and the same is true for C='s A2320 (which is what I have), you really need this feature. What you get on a (S)VGA monitor is FULL overscan, with about a 1/2" strip down the left & right sides of the image, which really is a waste of monitor space. Its not a big deal, but it is annoying. I compensate for this by using a 700-pixel wide WB screen :^). Another thing is that you will not be able to use some of the new ECS modes (specificly Super-Hi-res) on a VGA monitor. My A2320 docs say to put the card into "bypass" mode to use Super Hires. And since this is a 15KHz signal, my monitor doesn't take too kindly to that. My recommendation: Go with a SVGA monitor if you can't afford a multi-sync. (that's what I did). If you can find a SVGA with Horizontal size adjust, all the better. Word of warning: Lo-res (i.e. non-interlaced) looks really lousy since you can see every pixel in perfect clarity... there are no visible scan lines to hide the lack of resolution (like on a 108[0|4|4S|4D|4DS] monitor). Oh well, you will have to suffer with a Hires workbench screen ;^). As I said before, I haven't seen FFV in action, but I have seen the DOCs for it, and have been told about it by a friend who used it. I have also used C='s A2320, and these are the conclusions I came to. I still wish I spent the extra $250 for that NEC 3-D monitor! But my SVGA is more than adequate. - Alun Fryer "Make it so...." - Jean-Luc Picard, ST TNG
itch@cbnews.cb.att.com (richard.m.brack) (04/20/91)
In article <178.280BE812@weyr.FIDONET.ORG>, David.Plummer@p0.f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) writes: |>Has anyone had the chance to see the ICD flicker fixer up and running? |> I'm considering this unit, as long as it works with standard VGA, and |>would like some input from someone who has actually SEEN on running. Well, I saw the Flicker Free Video running on a 2000 at store. I didn't spend a lot of time with it, but it certianly didn't flicker in interlace mode. I think they had an IBM PS/2 monitor hooked up. One thing I DID notice is, when you move the mouse...Bing, two mouse pointers. I've heard that the Flicker Fixer has this motion artifact also. What about the 2320, does it do this???? RichBrack -- { the itchman cometh /-/ _ i don't want to be your angel } { itch@cbnews.att.com /-/ _|_|_ i want to be your witch! } { att!cbnews!itch \-\/-/ ( * )tch -yello } { \/\/ /^\ }
crafton@psych.toronto.edu (Brad Crafton) (04/20/91)
In article <1991Apr19.172421.15923@cbnews.cb.att.com> itch@cbnews.cb.att.com (richard.m.brack) writes: > >One thing I DID notice is, when you move the mouse...Bing, two mouse pointers. >I've heard that the Flicker Fixer has this motion artifact also. What about >the 2320, does it do this???? Yes, but only when viewing an Interlaced screen. (i.e. There is no motion artifact when the board is just filling in the extra scan-lines of a 200 line screen.) >RichBrack Brad crafton@psych.utoronto.ca
hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) (04/20/91)
In article <1991Apr19.172421.15923@cbnews.cb.att.com> itch@cbnews.cb.att.com (richard.m.brack) writes: >In article <178.280BE812@weyr.FIDONET.ORG>, >David.Plummer@p0.f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) writes: >|>Has anyone had the chance to see the ICD flicker fixer up and running? >|> I'm considering this unit, as long as it works with standard VGA, and >|>would like some input from someone who has actually SEEN on running. > >Well, I saw the Flicker Free Video running on a 2000 at store. I didn't >spend a lot of time with it, but it certianly didn't flicker in interlace >mode. I think they had an IBM PS/2 monitor hooked up. > >One thing I DID notice is, when you move the mouse...Bing, two mouse pointers. >I've heard that the Flicker Fixer has this motion artifact also. What about >the 2320, does it do this???? > >RichBrack >-- >{ the itchman cometh /-/ _ i don't want to be your angel } >{ itch@cbnews.att.com /-/ _|_|_ i want to be your witch! } >{ att!cbnews!itch \-\/-/ ( * )tch -yello } >{ \/\/ /^\ } The FlickerFixer(TM) does this in ALL Amiga video display modes, such as non-interlaced and interlaced. The Commodore A2320 does not do this in non-interlaced mode (which is the most common mode for games and therefore NOT a good idea to induce video motion artifacts like the other non-Commodore products do) but does have these motion artifacts in interlaced display modes. I also do not believe that the ICD's FFV board supports the ECS productivity modes as the A2320 does support it. -- -- Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew), Commodore-Amiga, Inc. {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!"
DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu (04/20/91)
In article <6515@bwdls58.bnr.ca>, dbscoop2@bwdlh417.BNR.CA (Alun Fryer) says: >Well, I haven't actually *SEEN* one running BUT, I can tell you a few things: >Using a "standard" VGA monitor is not a good idea because it is a >single-frequency monitor, which means you cannot use PAL mode (with the >one meg Agnus). If you get a "Super" VGA (SVGA) monitor, you will be >able to use PAL (since SVGA monitors will adjust to different frequency Is this really true? I thought VGA monitors were supposed to handle 50Hz - 70Hz refresh rates (all with a 31Khz horiz. scan rate of course). A friend of mine uses his Seiko VGA monitor in PAL (and NTSC) with no problems. (on a 2320/A3000) I recently aquired a 2320 so I'm quite interested in all views.... -- Dan Babcock
dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (04/20/91)
In article <178.280BE812@weyr.FIDONET.ORG> David.Plummer@p0.f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) writes: >Has anyone had the chance to see the ICD flicker fixer up and running? > I'm considering this unit, as long as it works with standard VGA, and >would like some input from someone who has actually SEEN on running. I have seen one. They placed it beside another monitor with heavy flicker, and the brightness/contrast all the way up. It looked good. It is a nice piece of hardware, too. It plugs in at the top left corner of the a500, before the video ports, and does not interfere with accelerators or anything. > >Any other info would be handy as well. > >Thanks, >Dave (as above or PLUMMERD@MAX.CC.UREGINA.CA) > > > >-- >David Plummer - via FidoNet node 1:140/22 >UUCP: ...!herald!weyr!70.0!David.Plummer >Domain: David.Plummer@p0.f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG >Standard Disclaimers Apply... -- David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3481 AMIGA DDD-MEN Tomas Arce Any students from SUNY Oswego? Please let me know! :) Un ragazzo di Casalbordino, Italia.
kuch@reed.edu (04/20/91)
Question on flicker boards...the thread, with a bunch of quotes, and re-quotes has been hard to follow. The motion artifact problem, when a quickly moving object like the mouse pointer leaves "ghosts" of itself in its wake occurs on which of the following (please post for the record): A3000 built-in deinterlacer (I never noticed it if it does). A2320 (same circuitry as A3000 almost) ? ICD Flicker Free Video ? MicroWay FlickerFlixer ? Please post.
jsibley@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu (James Sibley) (04/21/91)
In article <20796@cbmvax.commodore.com> hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) writes: >In article <1991Apr19.172421.15923@cbnews.cb.att.com> itch@cbnews.cb.att.com (richard.m.brack) writes: >>In article <178.280BE812@weyr.FIDONET.ORG>, >>David.Plummer@p0.f70.n140.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Plummer) writes: >>|>Has anyone had the chance to see the ICD flicker fixer up and running? >>|> I'm considering this unit, as long as it works with standard VGA, and >>|>would like some input from someone who has actually SEEN on running. >> >>Well, I saw the Flicker Free Video running on a 2000 at store. I didn't >>spend a lot of time with it, but it certianly didn't flicker in interlace >>mode. I think they had an IBM PS/2 monitor hooked up. >> >>One thing I DID notice is, when you move the mouse...Bing, two mouse pointers >The FlickerFixer(TM) does this in ALL Amiga video display modes, such as >non-interlaced and interlaced. The Commodore A2320 does not do this in >non-interlaced mode (which is the most common mode for games and >therefore NOT a good idea to induce video motion artifacts like the >other non-Commodore products do) but does have these motion artifacts in >interlaced display modes. I also do not believe that the ICD's FFV >board supports the ECS productivity modes as the A2320 does support it. > > >-- >-- >Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew), Commodore-Amiga, Inc. > {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com > "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!" Yes, but probably the most important "pro" for the FFV is that it leaves the video slot free for toasters and other goodies... :^} -- James Sibley Nous Sommes Du Soleil Seeking the truth about lemon curry. We Are Of The Sun jsibley@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu We Can See Amiga: the only true computer. -YES-
dbscoop2@bwdlh417.BNR.CA (Alun Fryer) (04/23/91)
In article <m0jUAnZ-000CrzC@reed.edu>, kuch@reed.edu writes: |>Question on flicker boards...the thread, with a bunch of quotes, and re-quotes |>has been hard to follow. The motion artifact problem, when a quickly moving |>object like the mouse pointer leaves "ghosts" of itself in its wake occurs |>on which of the following (please post for the record): |> |> A3000 built-in deinterlacer (I never noticed it if it does). |> |> A2320 (same circuitry as A3000 almost) ? |> These both have a "Ghost Image" of any fast moving graphics due simply to the method they use to de-interlace. Since Denise only updates each scan line 30 times per second, (once every 2nd frame), each scan line is displayed for 2 frames. It works something like this: On a standard 1084 (no display enhancer): Frame 1: Write line 1,3,5.... Frame 2: Write line 2,4,6..... Frame 3: Write new line 1,3,5.... Frame 4: Write new line 2,4,6.... etc.. With the display enhancer: 1: Write line 1,2,3,4,5.... 2: Write new line 1,3,5... and rewrite old line 2,4,6.... 3: Write new line 2,4,6.... and rewrite previous line 1,3,5... etc.. Anyways, what happens is when you move something quickly, every second scan line is one frame behind the alternate lines so you get a "Ghost image". Its a bit annoying, but I can live with it (It's not as bad as flicker!). This problem does not occur in non-interlaced mode, since each scan line is displayed on every frame. |> ICD Flicker Free Video ? Don't know, but I have been told it behaves similarly to the A2320 & A3000 |> MicroWay FlickerFlixer ? Don't know... never seen one. |>Please post. Posted. - Alun Fryer
pk@wet.UUCP (Philip King) (04/24/91)
In article <20796@cbmvax.commodore.com> hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) writes: >> >The FlickerFixer(TM) does this in ALL Amiga video display modes, such as >non-interlaced and interlaced. The Commodore A2320 does not do this in >non-interlaced mode (which is the most common mode for games and >therefore NOT a good idea to induce video motion artifacts like the >other non-Commodore products do) but does have these motion artifacts in ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >interlaced display modes. I also do not believe that the ICD's FFV >board supports the ECS productivity modes as the A2320 does support it. > Well, that's very interesting, since the picture I have of the ICD FFV, has this nice, big, juicy, COMMODORE de-interlacing chip sitting on it. There must be a lot of similarities, no? What say Scott? >-- >Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew), Commodore-Amiga, Inc. > {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com > "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!" Philip pk@wet.uucp {cca.ucsf.edu,hoptoad,claris}!wet!pk BTW Scott, do you know whether the A2088 will refuse to work with certain VGA boards, if it's got the old (....4) rather than new (....6) rom on it? I'm having trouble with an Orchid Prodesigner, and Randall suggested it might be the ROM.. I'd like to have a more concrete idea before I go through the special-order process..thanks.
drysdale@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Drysdale) (04/27/91)
In article <2343@wet.UUCP> pk@wet.UUCP (Philip King) writes: >In article <20796@cbmvax.commodore.com> hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) writes: >>> >>The FlickerFixer(TM) does this in ALL Amiga video display modes, such as >>non-interlaced and interlaced. The Commodore A2320 does not do this in >>non-interlaced mode (which is the most common mode for games and >>therefore NOT a good idea to induce video motion artifacts like the >>other non-Commodore products do) but does have these motion artifacts in > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>interlaced display modes. I also do not believe that the ICD's FFV >>board supports the ECS productivity modes as the A2320 does support it. >> > > >Well, that's very interesting, since the picture I have of the ICD FFV, >has this nice, big, juicy, COMMODORE de-interlacing chip sitting on it. >There must be a lot of similarities, no? What say Scott? i'm not scott hood, but i'm a scott.... the commodore chip you see on the ICD FFV is the denise chip which you remove from the A500's motherboard and plug into the FFV, which then plugs into the old denise socket. >BTW Scott, do you know whether the A2088 will refuse to work with certain >VGA boards, if it's got the old (....4) rather than new (....6) rom on >it? I'm having trouble with an Orchid Prodesigner, and Randall suggested >it might be the ROM.. I'd like to have a more concrete idea before I >go through the special-order process..thanks. the latest 2088 roms are version 3.6.1 (displayed in the box you get after rebooting the pc). what kind of "trouble" are you having with it? does it get recognized and used by the BIOS? --Scotty -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Scott Drysdale Software Engineer Commodore Amiga Inc. UUCP {allegra|burdvax|rutgers|ihnp4}!cbmvax!drysdale PHONE - yes. "Have you hugged your hog today?" =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) (05/03/91)
In article <2343@wet.UUCP> pk@wet.UUCP (Philip King) writes: >In article <20796@cbmvax.commodore.com> hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) writes: >>> >>The FlickerFixer(TM) does this in ALL Amiga video display modes, such as >>non-interlaced and interlaced. The Commodore A2320 does not do this in >>non-interlaced mode (which is the most common mode for games and >>therefore NOT a good idea to induce video motion artifacts like the >>other non-Commodore products do) but does have these motion artifacts in > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>interlaced display modes. I also do not believe that the ICD's FFV >>board supports the ECS productivity modes as the A2320 does support it. >> > > >Well, that's very interesting, since the picture I have of the ICD FFV, >has this nice, big, juicy, COMMODORE de-interlacing chip sitting on it. >There must be a lot of similarities, no? What say Scott? > This sounds very interesting since Commodore does not sell the AMBER chip to ICD!!! I have also seen a picture of the FFV and it did NOT have any Commodore chips on it. Please look at your picture again! > >>-- >>Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew), Commodore-Amiga, Inc. >> {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com >> "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!" > > > > > Philip > pk@wet.uucp > {cca.ucsf.edu,hoptoad,claris}!wet!pk > > >BTW Scott, do you know whether the A2088 will refuse to work with certain >VGA boards, if it's got the old (....4) rather than new (....6) rom on >it? I'm having trouble with an Orchid Prodesigner, and Randall suggested >it might be the ROM.. I'd like to have a more concrete idea before I >go through the special-order process..thanks. -- -- Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew), Commodore-Amiga, Inc. {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!"
pk@wet.UUCP (Philip King) (05/06/91)
In article <21175@cbmvax.commodore.com> hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) writes: >In article <2343@wet.UUCP> pk@wet.UUCP (Philip King) writes: >>In article <20796@cbmvax.commodore.com> hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) writes: >>>> >>>interlaced display modes. I also do not believe that the ICD's FFV >>>board supports the ECS productivity modes as the A2320 does support it. >>> >> >>Well, that's very interesting, since the picture I have of the ICD FFV, >>has this nice, big, juicy, COMMODORE de-interlacing chip sitting on it. >>There must be a lot of similarities, no? What say Scott? >This sounds very interesting since Commodore does not sell the AMBER >chip to ICD!!! I have also seen a picture of the FFV and it did NOT >have any Commodore chips on it. Please look at your picture again! OK...and I did! Here is what the chip is I'm talking about: 48-pin DIP First line: C= CSG Second : 8362R8 Third : 3789 28 It is the biggest chip on the board. I therefore assumed it was the de-interlacer. What is it?? I also noticed they use the 'intech' RGB DAC- think it's the same one that Microway uses on the flicker-fixer. Philip pk@wet.uucp {cca.ucsf.edu,hoptoad,claris}!wet!pk >-- >Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew), Commodore-Amiga, Inc. > {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com > "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!"
waibel@platon.fmi.uni-passau.de (Klaus Burkert) (05/10/91)
In article <2412@wet.UUCP> pk@wet.UUCP (Philip King) writes: >In article <21175@cbmvax.commodore.com> hood@cbmvax.commodore.com (Scott Hood) writes: [ stuff deleted] > >>This sounds very interesting since Commodore does not sell the AMBER >>chip to ICD!!! I have also seen a picture of the FFV and it did NOT >>have any Commodore chips on it. Please look at your picture again! > >OK...and I did! Here is what the chip is I'm talking about: > >48-pin DIP > >First line: C= CSG >Second : 8362R8 >Third : 3789 28 > >It is the biggest chip on the board. I therefore assumed it was >the de-interlacer. What is it?? It's the old (say non-ECS) Denise-Chip. As far as I know the ICD-FFV plugs in between the Denise and its socket. So it's obvious that the Denise is seen on the ICD board. Remember, DENISE and AMBER are totally different chips, as amber is only processing denise's output! I hope this clears things up... > >I also noticed they use the 'intech' RGB DAC- think it's the same >one that Microway uses on the flicker-fixer. > > Philip > pk@wet.uucp > {cca.ucsf.edu,hoptoad,claris}!wet!pk > > >>-- >>Scott Hood, Hardware Design Engineer (A3000 Crew), Commodore-Amiga, Inc. >> {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!hood hood@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com >> "The views expressed here are not necessarily those of my employer!" ------------------------------------------------------------- Klaus Burkert email: waibel@platon.fmi.uni-passau.de Brandweg 11 voice: +49-851/83993 D-W-8390 Passau / Federal Republic of Germany
dtiberio@eeserv1.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (05/13/91)
If a Commodore chip is found on the ICD Flicker Fixer, I am willing to
bet that it is a socketed chip that is placed onto the ICD daughterboard,
and the daughterboard plugs into the A500 empty socket where the chip was
removed from.
--
David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 2-3481 AMIGA DDD-MEN
"If you think that we're here for the money, we could live without it.
But the world isn't too good here, and it wasn't always like that."
Un ragazzo di Casalbordino, Italia.hankie@lysator.liu.se (Henrik Olsson) (05/13/91)
Does the ICD Flicker Free Video work with the new ECS Denise Chip? Can it prevent flicker in any of the new modes (VGA 640*960, Super-HiRes 1280*512)? /fn