aelric@aix01.aix.rpi.edu (John S Schroder) (05/28/91)
Hello All! Recently I was introduced to a Commmodore Dynamic Total Vision, CDTV for short. The only reason I actually knew that this machine was available at my local Amiga dealers was because of recent usenet posts about people encountering them on their trip to amiga stores. After a quick tally of who wanted to go a, few friends and I jumped into the car and headed to the store. When we arrived, there was nothing announcing that the store even had CDTV (no posters or stickers on windows). Well maybe they havn't put any up we thought. As we walked in we looked about but could see nothing. When asked if they had a CDTV the guy said yup but when we asked for a demonstration for some reason this caused the dealer to laugh and say that he couldn't do that. A little bewildered we asked why? It turns out that when they received their CDTV unit they were told by Commodore that in NO sense were they to advertise or promote the product (typical CBM marketing strategy) or they risk loosing their license to sell Amigas. After some bewildered looks they said we could play with it anyway. When we finally got over to the machine it looked like, well a CD player with a Nintendo remote controller. The machine as billed has a stereo component look to it. To the average person it looks to be nothing more than a CD player. As we all know it's not just that but also contains a 68000 Amiga inside with 1 meg of chip ram. Most of the CDTV GFX output seems to be in low color - low resolution which makes sense as the output would most liklely be going to TV's only. Even with low res some fairly impressive GFX can be produced as seen by the screen when a regular music CD is inserted (look for a mag. pic of this). CDTV will allow users to view CD+G GFX but the fact is that VERY few CD's have this encoded and the GFX are of very low resolution. It also takes about 10 seconds for a full picture to fade/wipe into view. The few examples of software they had were of questionable quality. They were just adventure games to speak of (like Cinemaware games but by another company). The GFX were ok and sound was excellent, not to surprising as it was reading sound data from the CD. We didn't see any arcade games where the true test would lie. What I defintily did NOT like was the way you inserted a CD into the CDTV unit. First you must insert the CD into a small plastic case that looks alot like a normal CD case. You have to then insert that case into the player. Now at the rate I change CD and tapes this would never do for a serious music listener. Meaning it's really a weird way of doing it. Why not just your typical eject box system that most CD's have? As I am also looking for a CD player I would not buy CDTV currently because of this 'feature'. All in all it is a revolutionary concept but to what extent people will buy it questionable. In my humble opinion it would not do well as a CD player. Yes it can do more than that but will Commodore let people know or keep stifling it's dealers??? -- /John S. Schroder + SCA: East Kingdom, Shire of Anglespur \ /Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute + Underachiever, And Proud of It Man! \ /aelric@rpi.edu + Amiga 3000 - THE ONLY Computer \ /=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\
mhuang@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU ( Hunter*** ) (05/29/91)
Once again, aelric@aix01.aix.rpi.edu (John S Schroder) declares... % % What I defintily did NOT like was the way you inserted a CD into the CDTV % unit. First you must insert the CD into a small plastic case that looks % alot like a normal CD case. You have to then insert that case into the % player. Now at the rate I change CD and tapes this would never do for a % serious music listener. Meaning it's really a weird way of doing it. Why % not just your typical eject box system that most CD's have? Well, to answer you quesiton, you have to realize that the CDTV is also designed to use CD-ROM's. The main thing to keep in mind is that CD-ROM's are quite delicate, more so than regular CD's. A small scratch that would be overlooked on a CD would be disastrous to a CD-ROM. Hence, when inserting a CD into a player, the CD is more prone to damage my the player itself, as well as damage from dust, etc. that enters the player. Th CD-mechanism found on the CDTV is deisgned for CD-ROM's and is able to ptovide this protection, necessary to the operation of a CD-ROM. If you look at most, if not all CD-ROM's, they have this "feature." Unfortunately, this also is a bit of a pain, when it comes to CD's. % As I am % also looking for a CD player I would not buy CDTV currently because of this % 'feature'. I really doubt that Commodore would have a 5-disc changer out anytime soon. :-) Hunter---> -- mhuang@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU and now at............mhuang@blackbird.CalPoly.EDU mhuang@nike.CalPoly.EDU // ...mhuang@data.ACS.CalPoly.EDU mhuang@FubarSys.com \X/ ...and mshuang@ames.arc.nasa.gov mhuang@caticsuf.cati.CSUFresno.EDU=="This project is so secret...Or is it?"==#
kevin@cbmvax.commodore.com (Kevin Klop) (05/29/91)
[ Recount/review of CDTV deleted ] > What I defintily did NOT like was the way you inserted a CD into the CDTV > unit. First you must insert the CD into a small plastic case that looks > alot like a normal CD case. You have to then insert that case into the > player. Now at the rate I change CD and tapes this would never do for a > serious music listener. Meaning it's really a weird way of doing it. Why > not just your typical eject box system that most CD's have? As I am > also looking for a CD player I would not buy CDTV currently because of this > 'feature'. While I understand the hassle involved with the CD Carrier, it really is a necessity for computer CD-ROM applications. If, on an Audio CD, the alignment is not perfect, and you lose a few bits of data (or read them with errors), then there's no big deal. It's doubtful that your ear will hear that error. On the other hand, if your program is loading, and one of the instructions has a few bits changed, all sorts of bad things can happen. The carrier (i.e. the small plastic case) helps provide a closer tolerance for the CD by minimizing the motion the CD can make. [ Marketing question deleted - I'm an engineer ;^) ] > > -- > /John S. Schroder + SCA: East Kingdom, Shire of Anglespur \ > /Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute+ Underachiever, And Proud of It Man! \ > /aelric@rpi.edu + Amiga 3000 - THE ONLY Computer \ > /=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ Kevin Klop {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!kevin Commodore-Amiga, Inc. Ever feel like a lemming that's afraid of the water? Disclaimer: _I_ don't know what I said, much less my employer. (BTW, Eastern Kingdom, Crown Province of Ostgardr)
simon@ivem1.uucp (Simon) (05/29/91)
In article <xplh51n@rpi.edu> aelric@aix01.aix.rpi.edu (John S Schroder) writes: > > A little bewildered we asked why? It turns out that when they received >their CDTV unit they were told by Commodore that in NO sense were they to >advertise or promote the product (typical CBM marketing strategy) or they >risk loosing their license to sell Amigas. After some bewildered looks they >said we could play with it anyway. > Well, if you were following up on the CDTV stuff, CBM doesn't want people to look at the thing as a "Computer". So if you have one on display in a computer store, it will make people who walk into a "Computer" store to think it is a new computer. I think that's why CBM is being strict on this. > What I defintily did NOT like was the way you inserted a CD into the CDTV >unit. First you must insert the CD into a small plastic case that looks >alot like a normal CD case. You have to then insert that case into the >player. Now at the rate I change CD and tapes this would never do for a >serious music listener. Meaning it's really a weird way of doing it. Why >not just your typical eject box system that most CD's have? As I am >also looking for a CD player I would not buy CDTV currently because of this >'feature'. Well, I for one wouldn't fork out $999+ for a CD player. Besides, who would buy this just to use it as a CD player. True, the way the CD's are handled is a bit clumsy, but that's how some of the CD-ROM drives do things. I don't know why they didn't use a slide tray, but I think it has something to do with space inside, and keeping it low cost. > >/John S. Schroder + SCA: East Kingdom, Shire of Anglespur \ >/Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute + Underachiever, And Proud of It Man! \ >/aelric@rpi.edu + Amiga 3000 - THE ONLY Computer \ >/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ I thought it was a need thing, but I'd need a keyboard and mouse to do something. The "Nintendo" controller is great for games, expecially the two buttons (Attack/Jump :), but I couldn't afford to put more money into it to make it a "Computer". -- * Simon Lee * Southwestern Regional Resource for * * simon@ivem1.ucsd.edu * Intermediate Voltage * * sulee@ucsd.edu * Electron Microscopy, UC San Diego *
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (05/29/91)
In <2842a61b.2a48@petunia.CalPoly.EDU> mhuang@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU ( Hunter*** ) writes: >Once again, aelric@aix01.aix.rpi.edu (John S Schroder) declares... >% >% What I definitely did NOT like was the way you inserted a CD into the CDTV > > The main thing to keep in mind is that CD-ROM's > are quite delicate, more so than regular CD's. A small scratch that would > be overlooked on a CD would be disastrous to a CD-ROM. > [...] > If you look at most, if not all CD-ROM's, they have this "feature." Yes they do, altho I believe that CD drives also have the head set up to simply focus past most (many? all?) scratches. I'm no expert on this tho. In any event, I was told this is why (consumer) CD-I players won't require those plastic caddies: because they're a royal pain. One would assume that they tested this method, and had no troubles. We'll see, eh? :-) OTOH, aren't caddies cheap enough that a person could just buy one for each CDTV disc? That would seem like an easy solution. - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
fletcher@netcom.COM (F. Sullivan Segal) (05/29/91)
In article <21976@cbmvax.commodore.com> kevin@cbmvax.UUCP (Kevin Klop) writes: > > [ Recount/review of CDTV deleted ] > >> What I defintily did NOT like was the way you inserted a CD into the CDTV >> unit. First you must insert the CD into a small plastic case that looks >> alot like a normal CD case. You have to then insert that case into the >> player. Now at the rate I change CD and tapes this would never do for a >> serious music listener. Meaning it's really a weird way of doing it. Why >> not just your typical eject box system that most CD's have? As I am >> also looking for a CD player I would not buy CDTV currently because of this >> 'feature'. > >While I understand the hassle involved with the CD Carrier, it really is a >necessity for computer CD-ROM applications. If, on an Audio CD, the alignment >is not perfect, and you lose a few bits of data (or read them with errors), >then there's no big deal. It's doubtful that your ear will hear that error. >On the other hand, if your program is loading, and one of the instructions >has a few bits changed, all sorts of bad things can happen. The carrier >(i.e. the small plastic case) helps provide a closer tolerance for the CD >by minimizing the motion the CD can make. > > > There really are CDROM drives that don't require disk-caddies though. Hopefully the CDTV will be retrofitted when the prices come down a bit. -- -F. Sullivan Segall _______________________________________________________________ _ /V\ E-Credibility: (n -- ME) The unguaranteed likelyhood that ' the electronic mail you are reading is genuine rather than someone's made up crap. _______________________________________________________________ Mail to: ...sun!portal!cup.portal.com!fletcher or fletcher@cup.portal.com fletcher@netcom.com
darrell@comspec.uucp (Darrell Grainger) (05/30/91)
In article <xplh51n@rpi.edu> aelric@aix01.aix.rpi.edu (John S Schroder) writes: > What I defintily did NOT like was the way you inserted a CD into the CDTV >unit. First you must insert the CD into a small plastic case that looks >alot like a normal CD case. You have to then insert that case into the >player. Now at the rate I change CD and tapes this would never do for a >serious music listener. Meaning it's really a weird way of doing it. Why >not just your typical eject box system that most CD's have? As I am >also looking for a CD player I would not buy CDTV currently because of this >'feature'. The reasoning behind the 'caddy' for holding your CD on the CDTV is quite sensible. With an audio CD you can allow for a bit or two being dropped. Most CD players will fill in the gaps and the human ear will never be able to tell that a bit or two was lost. With CD-ROMs the computer WILL notice a lost bit or two. It will not be able to average things out as easily. Commodore recommends that you buy a caddy for each of your CD-ROMs. Some of the CD-ROMs are being shipped with a caddy. Once you put a CD-ROM in the caddy you should leave it in there... the less handling of the actual CD the less chance of damaging it. >-- >/John S. Schroder + SCA: East Kingdom, Shire of Anglespur \ >/Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute + Underachiever, And Proud of It Man! \ >/aelric@rpi.edu + Amiga 3000 - THE ONLY Computer \ >/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Darrell Grainger (darrell@comspec) |Comspec Communications Inc. | | Toronto, Ontario, Canada |Disclaimer: My opinions do not | | (416)617-1475 (416)633-5605 |reflect those of my employer. | |------------------------------------+-------------------------------| | Motorcycle: Honda PC800 | Computer:Amiga 2000 | ----------------------------------------------------------------------