[net.followup] Computers \\& Society

70:rogerh (09/23/82)

The problem with the libertarian view (free competition) is that businesses
don't like competition.  They like to make money.  Therefore you need an
arbitrator (read government) to ensure that you get anything like competition
happening.  
As to the central issue, computers and society: I agree with Seymour Papert
that computers can be used two ways: to empower people (a *good thing*) and
to control people (a *bad thing*).  This corrrelates highly with the tools
vs packages approaches.  I use the computer in an improvisational manner,
sticking programs together as the whim arises.  Poor Shmuck, who bought a big
accounting package from Foobar & Son, enters data exactly as the package
demands and then chooses operation "a" or operation "b", or else gets bitten.
The computer increases my freedom, decreases Shmuck's.  Even worse: the 
computer convinces me that I have control over my world.  It tells Shmuck that
the world controls her.
Solutions?  Well, I think the spread of micros is hopeful.  People won't (I
hope) buy something that belittles them.  Now if only there wasn't so much
mediocrity for them to choose from...
		Roger Hayes
		University of Arizona

pcmcgeer (09/28/82)

	Hmm.  I'm not sure you even NEED a new court system, though I'll admit
that the current court system hasn't done a whole bunch to convince us of it's
worth.
	All legal questions have some technical aspects to them.   I suspect
that the major question in the pollution argument is less technical than
political and social:  the problem in metering the damage done to the environ-
ment due to someone's activities is fundamentally the problem of defining
every individual's property rights to common property - in this case, the air.
Put more bluntly, I should be able to take a civil action in court against
a polluter for fouling my property - that property being the air I breathe.
Philosophically, there is no difference between polluting the air and smashing
my car.  In either case, you have damaged something that belongs to me - and
under the law, I get compensation.
	There are two difficulties:  first, placing a dollar value on my
property, and, second, ensuring that I have a convenient way to collect for
damage.  The former is undefined;  the second does not exist.
					Rick.