ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) (05/31/91)
I seem to remember somebody on here stating that it took the Amiga less
time to reach a sales mark (2 million?) than it did the Mac. I'm in need of
a reprint on that for the benefit of some Mac "friends". If you know the
figures please post them.
Tom
--
Why purchase a MAC when an Amiga with the same CPU will run 99% of all
__ MAC software..and FASTER at that?! The same can be said of the IBM and
__/// Atari computers, and I can run those in a window. IBM's greatest sales
\XX/ tool is ignorance on the consumer's part. Only the Amiga! DEVO Anyone?taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (06/01/91)
In article <27494@know.pws.bull.com>, ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) writes: > > I seem to remember somebody on here stating that it took the Amiga less >time to reach a sales mark (2 million?) than it did the Mac. I'm in need of >a reprint on that for the benefit of some Mac "friends". If you know the >figures please post them. There is currently an installed base of roughly 5 million MACs and 2 million Amigas world-wide. However, these figures are very misleading because most of the Amigas are in Europe and most of the MACs are in the U.S. If you wish to compare the systems more directly, there is currently an installed base of about 4 million MACs and 0.4 million Amigas in the U.S. These figures are more directly relevent, since the majority of readers of Usenet are in the U.S. This is also where I got my figure of "10 MACs for every Amiga" in a previous message. > > Tom > >-- > Why purchase a MAC when an Amiga with the same CPU will run 99% of all > __ MAC software..and FASTER at that?! The same can be said of the IBM and > __/// Atari computers, and I can run those in a window. IBM's greatest sales > \XX/ tool is ignorance on the consumer's part. Only the Amiga! DEVO Anyone? I've been wanting to answer this one for some time. By your signature, you are assuming that all MACs are monochrome. This could not be further from the truth. The Amiga runs about 80% of MAC software, and all of it in monochrome. The reason to get a MAC would be to run all of this software in true color. ------------------------------------------------------------- / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / / ISU COM S Student | Internet: XGR39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU / ------------------------------------------------------------ \ ISU : The Home of the Goon / \ Who wants to Blow Up the Moon / -------------------------------------------------------
don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) (06/01/91)
In article <1991Jun1.022249.22182@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: >In article <27494@know.pws.bull.com>, ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) writes: >> >> I seem to remember somebody on here stating that it took the Amiga less >>time to reach a sales mark (2 million?) than it did the Mac. I'm in need of >>a reprint on that for the benefit of some Mac "friends". If you know the >>figures please post them. > > There is currently an installed base of roughly 5 million MACs and >2 million Amigas world-wide. However, these figures are very misleading >because most of the Amigas are in Europe and most of the MACs are in >the U.S. > That estimate of 5 million Macs was made before the new 'low cost' machines hit the streets. The sales of these have probably boosted that number, especially with the demand for (yech!) Classics. Your Amiga numbers are also off, by a more significant margin :-). At the World of Amiga show this past (April?), James Dionne said that they'd officially hit the 3 million mark. He said it had reached the 2 million mark in ~6 months less time than it took the Mac, and the 3 million over 1 year more quickly. (Disclaimer - these times might not be the exact ones he quoted... but I think they're fairly close :-) > If you wish to compare the systems more directly, there is currently >an installed base of about 4 million MACs and 0.4 million Amigas in the >U.S. These figures are more directly relevent, since the majority of >readers of Usenet are in the U.S. This is also where I got my figure >of "10 MACs for every Amiga" in a previous message. > I don't know the percentage of Amigas in the US, but I know that as of the last annual stockholder's report, 75% of them were in Europe. Yes, a lot needs to be done in the U.S. market. Don't blame it all on CBM, though. The company's got its faults, to be sure, but overall I've seen a steady improvement over the last few years. The people I've been talking with since becoming an ASOCC have all seemed like dedicated, competent people who are trying to promote a product in a near-hostile environment ('The Industry') with limited funds and manpower. I've also noticed that they can be difficult to get in touch with... they always seem to be away at trade shows, etc... -- Gibberish May the Publications Editor, AmigaNetwork is spoken fork() be Amiga Student On-Campus Consultant, U of D here. with you. DISCLAIMER: It's all YOUR fault.
nwickham@triton.unm.edu (Neal C. Wickham) (06/01/91)
In article <1991Jun1.022249.22182@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: > > There is currently an installed base of roughly 5 million MACs and >2 million Amigas world-wide. However, these figures are very misleading >because most of the Amigas are in Europe and most of the MACs are in >the U.S. There are three million Amigas world wide and it took less time than the Macs. > I've been wanting to answer this one for some time. By your signature, >you are assuming that all MACs are monochrome. This could not be further >from the truth. The Amiga runs about 80% of MAC software, and all of it >in monochrome. The reason to get a MAC would be to run all of this >software in true color. I've 'heard' from a reliable source that AmaxIII will support color. NCW
taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (06/01/91)
In article <1991Jun01.041824.18372@ariel.unm.edu>, nwickham@triton.unm.edu (Neal C. Wickham) writes: >In article <1991Jun1.022249.22182@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: >> >> There is currently an installed base of roughly 5 million MACs and >>2 million Amigas world-wide. However, these figures are very misleading >>because most of the Amigas are in Europe and most of the MACs are in >>the U.S. > > >There are three million Amigas world wide and it took less time than the >Macs. That is very misleading. I will say again that all of these increased Amiga sales are in Europe. All of North America now accounts for less than 8% of Commodore's world-wide sales, and the U.S. about 2/3 of this. This means that Amiga sales in the U.S. are at a near standstill, especially compared to Apple which has been reporting record sales in the U.S. > > >> I've been wanting to answer this one for some time. By your signature, >>you are assuming that all MACs are monochrome. This could not be further >>from the truth. The Amiga runs about 80% of MAC software, and all of it >>in monochrome. The reason to get a MAC would be to run all of this >>software in true color. > > >I've 'heard' from a reliable source that AmaxIII will support color. Rumors are bullshit -- I want FACTS. If A-Max III takes half as long to reach the market as A-Max II+, it never will reach the market. Besides, what kind of color capabilities are you talking about? ReadySoft cannot use any of the third-party graphics boards, because they all lack the resolution and flicker like all hell. They also cannot use the Amiga's built-in color capabilities, because they are next to non-existant compared to the 8/24-bit color of the LC. The point is, if A-Max III does support color, it will very likely either support very limited color (16 colors out of a small palette), require a third-party graphics board like the HAM-E that flickers like hell, or require a very expensive graphics board like the A2410. All of this would make a genuine color MAC very desirable in price and quality of display. > > > NCW ------------------------------------------------------------- / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / / ISU COM S Student | Internet: XGR39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU / ------------------------------------------------------------ \ ISU : The Home of the Goon / \ Who wants to Blow Up the Moon / -------------------------------------------------------
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/01/91)
In article <1991Jun1.022249.22182@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: > > There is currently an installed base of roughly 5 million MACs and >2 million Amigas world-wide. However, these figures are very misleading >because most of the Amigas are in Europe and most of the MACs are in >the U.S. > > If you wish to compare the systems more directly, there is currently >an installed base of about 4 million MACs and 0.4 million Amigas in the >U.S. These figures are more directly relevent, since the majority of >readers of Usenet are in the U.S. This is also where I got my figure >of "10 MACs for every Amiga" in a previous message. > Marc, where do you get your numbers from? 7 month old posts? Here's rather up-to-date information: As of last April's World of Amiga in NYC, 3 million Amigas have been shipped according to (if I remember right) Jim Dionne. According to the Alex, Brown & Sons report (they are stock analysts specializing in computer companies), at the point in time when there were 2.5 million Amigas world wide, there were 600,000 in the U.S. Same rate of growth (which of course isn't guaranteed, but should be approximate) puts the US at 720,000. I've stated my sources. What are yours? -- Ethan Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
6600dmx@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Richard A. Boyd) (06/02/91)
The current estimated number of Macs worldwide (including thier low cost models) is 4.5 million. I don't know about Amiga sales, but the latest number I heard was 3 million.
chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch) (06/02/91)
taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > That is very misleading. I will say again that all of these >increased Amiga sales are in Europe. All of North America now accounts >for less than 8% of Commodore's world-wide sales, and the U.S. about >2/3 of this. This means that Amiga sales in the U.S. are at a near >standstill, especially compared to Apple which has been reporting >record sales in the U.S. Really 2/3 of 8% is 5.28% and 5.28% of 3 million is 158,400 Amiga computers. just a few articles ago, you said there were about .4 million in the us.. so which is it? those numbers don't match up as well, since sales of A3000's are so brisk in the US that CBM can't keep up with the demand.this makes no sense if you look at your numbers. CBM concentrated it's sales efforts LAST YEAR on europe. and they reaped the rewards. this year the US is the target and they are selling tons of Amiga's here. CBM estimates 4 million Amiga's by the end of the year. > > Rumors are bullshit -- I want FACTS. If A-Max III takes half as >long to reach the market as A-Max II+, it never will reach the market. >Besides, what kind of color capabilities are you talking about? >ReadySoft cannot use any of the third-party graphics boards, because >they all lack the resolution and flicker like all hell. They also >cannot use the Amiga's built-in color capabilities, because they >are next to non-existant compared to the 8/24-bit color of the LC. 16 bit color is better than no color, and besides that, there are other boards besides Ham-E. like Firecracker which is a true 24 bit card.. I would imagine they would build in a driver system like they did for the hard drives. where each manufacturer can write a driver. this will work quite well, since the mac doesn't depend on a certain type of device. > > The point is, if A-Max III does support color, it will very likely >either support very limited color (16 colors out of a small palette), >require a third-party graphics board like the HAM-E that flickers >like hell, or require a very expensive graphics board like the A2410. >All of this would make a genuine color MAC very desirable in price >and quality of display. Some of that might be true, but as i said, the majority of mac color applications will support a 16 color display quite well. > .--------------------------------------------------------------------------. | UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back | | ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do | | INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's | |-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" | | Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in | | welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". | `--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) (06/02/91)
In article <1991Jun1.160826.8738@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >In article <1991Jun1.022249.22182@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: >> >> There is currently an installed base of roughly 5 million MACs and >>2 million Amigas world-wide. However, these figures are very misleading >>because most of the Amigas are in Europe and most of the MACs are in >>the U.S. >> >> If you wish to compare the systems more directly, there is currently >>an installed base of about 4 million MACs and 0.4 million Amigas in the >>U.S. These figures are more directly relevent, since the majority of >>readers of Usenet are in the U.S. This is also where I got my figure >>of "10 MACs for every Amiga" in a previous message. >> > Marc, where do you get your numbers from? 7 month old >posts? Here's rather up-to-date information: > >As of last April's World of Amiga in NYC, 3 million Amigas have >been shipped according to (if I remember right) Jim Dionne. > >According to the Alex, Brown & Sons report (they are stock >analysts specializing in computer companies), at the point in >time when there were 2.5 million Amigas world wide, there were >600,000 in the U.S. Same rate of growth (which of course isn't >guaranteed, but should be approximate) puts the US at 720,000. > > I've stated my sources. What are yours? I got my numbers from AmigaWorld and BusinessWeek. OK, I may have been a bit off on the Amiga numbers, but even 720,000 sucks badly. With an installed base *IN THE U.S.* of over 4 million Macintoshes, this means that Apple has 5 MACs for every Amiga in the U.S. This is in spite of the fact that the MACs carry a much higher price, and are in a marketing segment where volume sales are more difficult than the Amiga's market segment. In other words, Commodore stresses mass-marketing, and still does not sell as many Amigas as Apple sells Macintoshes. So much for mass- marketing. > > -- Ethan > >Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, >Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, >I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, >How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin ------------------------------------------------------------- / Marc Barrett -MB- | BITNET: XGR39@ISUVAX.BITNET / / ISU COM S Student | Internet: XGR39@CCVAX.IASTATE.EDU / ------------------------------------------------------------ \ ISU : The Home of the Goon / \ Who wants to Blow Up the Moon / -------------------------------------------------------
dvljhg@cs.umu.se (J|rgen Holmberg) (06/02/91)
In article <1991Jun1.091600.28806@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: >In article <1991Jun01.041824.18372@ariel.unm.edu>, nwickham@triton.unm.edu (Neal C. Wickham) writes: >>In article <1991Jun1.022249.22182@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: >>> > > Rumors are bullshit -- I want FACTS. Bruhahahahahaha... ha... wait a minute, I get it! This is a joke post. Right? right...??? No? No!?! NO! Marc Barrett wants facts... Lo and behold, the time of revelation and miracles is upon us! The lame shall pick up their wheelchairs and walk among us... ooops, sorry <blush> Guess I got a bit carried away but... he wants FACTS Bruhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha... <the echo fades away in the empty halls> /Jorgen -- email dvljhg@cs.umu.se | DUMII: 130.239.103.5 2001 Sentinel of the scales Everything I say is always true, just apply it to the right reality. "Credo, quia absurdum est." Credo (dei) in absurdum est?
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/02/91)
In article <1991Jun2.011552.12676@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: > > I got my numbers from AmigaWorld and BusinessWeek. OK, I may have been >a bit off on the Amiga numbers, but even 720,000 sucks badly. With an >installed base *IN THE U.S.* of over 4 million Macintoshes, this means >that Apple has 5 MACs for every Amiga in the U.S. This is in spite of >the fact that the MACs carry a much higher price, and are in a marketing >segment where volume sales are more difficult than the Amiga's market >segment. > > In other words, Commodore stresses mass-marketing, and still does not >sell as many Amigas as Apple sells Macintoshes. So much for mass- >marketing. > No one here has ever denied the problems Commodore has had penetrating the American market. There are many different reasons, some blame Commodore, some blame people, most blame both. Very few blame the programmers and techs at Commodore. To quote the other statistics from the report from Alex, Brown & Sons, at the time when 2.5 million Amigas were sold, they estimated: US: 600,000 UK: 500,000 BRD: 1,100,000 The other 300,000, accounting for 12% of total sales, are spread throughout the rest of the world. It seems likely that CBM UK will outsell US, at least that's my opinion. They've been having record sales and the A500 is the best selling computer in Britain. -- Ethan Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) (06/02/91)
In article <1991Jun2.011552.12676@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: >In article <1991Jun1.160826.8738@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >>In article <1991Jun1.022249.22182@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: >>> >>> There is currently an installed base of roughly 5 million MACs and >>>2 million Amigas world-wide. However, these figures are very misleading >>>because most of the Amigas are in Europe and most of the MACs are in >>>the U.S. >>> >> Marc, where do you get your numbers from? 7 month old >>posts? Here's rather up-to-date information: >> > I got my numbers from AmigaWorld and BusinessWeek. OK, I may have been >a bit off on the Amiga numbers, but even 720,000 sucks badly. With an >installed base *IN THE U.S.* of over 4 million Macintoshes, this means >that Apple has 5 MACs for every Amiga in the U.S. This is in spite of >the fact that the MACs carry a much higher price, and are in a marketing >segment where volume sales are more difficult than the Amiga's market >segment. > > In other words, Commodore stresses mass-marketing, and still does not >sell as many Amigas as Apple sells Macintoshes. So much for mass- >marketing. > I don't see ANY Amigas in CompUSA, so they are NOT mass-marketing the high end machines. IF they did, they would sell more. My dad would have bought an Amiga 3000 if CompUSA carried them, he's allready told me that. Would have been 1 more Amiga in the US. That place gotta ring up $25,000 an hour on the registers... -- Ronald Kushner Life In Hell BBS +1 (313) 939-6666 P.O. Box 353 14400 USR HST V.42 & V.42bis Sterling Heights, MI 48311-0353 Complete Amiga Support UUCP: uunet!umich!vela!sycom!rkushner (We are not satanic, just NUTS!)
barrett@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Dan Barrett) (06/03/91)
Could you folks please take this discussion to .advocacy where it belongs? Thanks.
wright@etsuv2.etsu.edu (BRIAN WRIGHT) (06/03/91)
In article <5055@orbit.cts.com>, chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch) writes... >taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: >> Rumors are bullshit -- I want FACTS. If A-Max III takes half as >>long to reach the market as A-Max II+, it never will reach the market. >>Besides, what kind of color capabilities are you talking about? >>ReadySoft cannot use any of the third-party graphics boards, because >>they all lack the resolution and flicker like all hell. They also >>cannot use the Amiga's built-in color capabilities, because they >>are next to non-existant compared to the 8/24-bit color of the LC. And look at how much you PAY for that 8/24-bit color. Even so, the only time you get 256 colors is on the SMALLEST RGB screen. You only get 16 colors on the largest. IF you buy the expansion VRAM THEN you can get 256 on the LARGE RGB screen. Of course, if you still use the SMALL RGB screen with the VRAM you get 32,000 colors. I just wonder how slow the LC really IS with its 020, though? With 32,000 it has be be VERY slow. If I know Apple, that expansion VRAM has to be VERY EXPENSIVE. >16 bit color is better than no color, and besides that, there are other boards >besides Ham-E. like Firecracker which is a true 24 bit card.. I would imagine >they would build in a driver system like they did for the hard drives. where >each manufacturer can write a driver. this will work quite well, since the >mac doesn't depend on a certain type of device. The Digital Micronics boards will be QUITE nice and QUITE expensive. They will produce a FLICKER-FREE 8 bit AND 24 bit output for the Amiga. They will have resolutions of 1280x1024 at either 8 or 24 bit/pixel (out of a palette of 16.7 million for both). They will require a Megapixel multisync and WILL have FLICKER-FREE imagery. The price for the 8 bit board will be $1095 and for the 24 bit board will be $1995 you can add between $200-$600 if you want double-buffering. Currently they are planning Zorro II versions although they said that Zorro III versions are in the works also. These board work out of a standard Zorro II slot and not out of the Video slot. >> The point is, if A-Max III does support color, it will very likely >>either support very limited color (16 colors out of a small palette), >>require a third-party graphics board like the HAM-E that flickers >>like hell, or require a very expensive graphics board like the A2410. >>All of this would make a genuine color MAC very desirable in price >>and quality of display. From all that I have heard about the A2410, it will be quite a BIT less than the cost of an LC. An LC is what? ~$3000? An A2410 should only be right around $1000 or so. If it's more than that, go for the Digital Micronics board. >Some of that might be true, but as i said, the majority of mac color >applications will support a 16 color display quite well. Yes, and even with something like Colorburst (flickering and all) it would STILL do quite nicely for Mac color. Of course, the thing that has been completely overlooked here is that ReadySoft may be working with someone who MIGHT produce a custom graphics card for Amax II+ (Amax III?). Of course, what price you're paying for your Mac could ALSO buy you the DM Board for the Amiga. The Digital Micronics 8 bit board is quite a bit less than an LC. Of course, once you add the MegaPixel monitor, then you have added a lot more. But then you also have a VERY nice graphics system. If you add double-buffering you have also quite surpassed the Mac's color system as you then have real-time animation. Of course, if you add the DM 8 bit board and monitor than you have also surpassed that of the LC. The LC will NEVER be capable of what the DM 24 bit board equiped Amiga will provide (graphics-wise). If you want no flicker 8 or 24 bit color, go buy a Digital Micronics board. >..--------------------------------------------------------------------------. >| UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back | >| ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do | >| INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's | >|-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" | >| Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in | >| welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". | >`--------------------------------------------------------------------------' (dislaimer: I talked to a person at Digital Micronics on the phone and this is what I was told about their boards. If the person I was talking to was lieing, I cannot be held resposible.) -------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Wright wright%etsuvax2@ricevm1.rice.edu or wright@etsuvax2.bitnet -------------------------------------------------------------- Standard Disclaimer... not my words and all that jazz.
nwickham@triton.unm.edu (Neal C. Wickham) (06/03/91)
In article <1991Jun1.091600.28806@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: > Rumors are bullshit -- I want FACTS. If A-Max III takes half as >long to reach the market as A-Max II+, it never will reach the market. The person I heard it from was a dealer who heard it directly from ReadySoft on the phone. But I hear ya..... >Besides, what kind of color capabilities are you talking about? >ReadySoft cannot use any of the third-party graphics boards, because >they all lack the resolution and flicker like all hell. They also >cannot use the Amiga's built-in color capabilities, because they >are next to non-existant compared to the 8/24-bit color of the LC. Well, I'm not the kind of person who would know. I heard (again) however that you would be able to buy a board for color. How many colors or at what resolutions I don't know. If you're interested, I could probably find out. > The point is, if A-Max III does support color, it will very likely >either support very limited color (16 colors out of a small palette), >require a third-party graphics board like the HAM-E that flickers >like hell, or require a very expensive graphics board like the A2410. >All of this would make a genuine color MAC very desirable in price >and quality of display. It may be expensive, but there is also an issue of desk space. You could have an Amiga, IBM, Mac, and a Unix workstation all on one desk. You could use anyone and everyone's software. A Mac LC is very sloooow under system 7.0. Also, I'm pretty sure that 2/3 of Mac sales are either Classics or LCs. Its not like Amax needs to emulate like an si or fx. Its just nice that if you need to run some rare or available software that you can probably do it one way or another on an Amiga. NCW
nwickham@triton.unm.edu (Neal C. Wickham) (06/03/91)
I get the idea that C= is waiting for 2.0 and is now concetrating their
marketing resources on CDTV. I also get the idea that C= is going to make
A LOT of money off CDTV. We were talking to a dealer in Santa Fe the other
day and she said the schools up there were bugging her to get some CDTV's
in.
And won't the 500 with the ECS and 2.0 support a VGA monior. A 500 with
a VGA display for less than eight or nine hundred dollars will be killer.
People will look at there Mac Classics and turn green.
NCWnfs1675@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil (Michael S Figg) (06/03/91)
In article <1991Jun2.015147.20888@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > In article <1991Jun2.011552.12676@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu writes: > > > > In other words, Commodore stresses mass-marketing, and still does not > >sell as many Amigas as Apple sells Macintoshes. So much for mass- > >marketing. > > > No one here has ever denied the problems Commodore has > had penetrating the American market. There are many different > reasons, some blame Commodore, some blame people, most blame > both. Very few blame the programmers and techs at Commodore. > > -- Ethan It seems like it has been pretty much agreed here lately that Commodore has NOT been taking a mass-marketing approach but a niche marketing position, hence the ads (not 'adds') appearing mostly in video type magazines. I don't totally agree with this approach but that seems to be the way it is. Personally I think the Amigas' sales have been incredible considering the marketing that has been done. The 500 has been pushed somewhat as a mass- market type of machine but could be pushed more. ---Mike, -- | Michael Figg DSAC-FSD My Karma ran over your Dogma! | DLA Systems Automation Center | Cols, Ohio mfigg@dsac.dla.mil | CIS: 73777,360
sss10@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gun Control is a firm grip) (06/04/91)
In article <1991Jun03.051159.27197@ariel.unm.edu> nwickham@triton.unm.edu (Neal C. Wickham) writes: >I get the idea that C= is waiting for 2.0 and is now concetrating their >marketing resources on CDTV. I also get the idea that C= is going to make >A LOT of money off CDTV. We were talking to a dealer in Santa Fe the other >day and she said the schools up there were bugging her to get some CDTV's >in. According to 2 dealers in NY, <Leighs and Amaginations> they sold a total of 7 CDTVS... out of the 7 they have received. I dont know how long it took them to do so but i get the impression they were gone pretty quickly. Is an Encyclopedia <not almanac, Encyclopedia> available or going to be available? Just a qucik question. >And won't the 500 with the ECS and 2.0 support a VGA monior. A 500 with >a VGA display for less than eight or nine hundred dollars will be killer. >People will look at there Mac Classics and turn green. Actually ICD makes a flicker fixer for the 500 but you gotta take it apart to connect it and I think that voids the warranty. The only "negative" to this would mean the inevitable death of the 1084S. I mean that monitor costs ~$300 in most stores while I figure a decent VGA monitor can be had for less. This has been my main complaint with the pricing of the 500. If you used a cheaper monitor, you could easily get a 1 meg 500 for less that a classic but not so with the 1084S. Wouldnt it make sence for C= to include a flickerfixer thing in the 500 considering the problem with possible warranty invalidations and all? more ideas... > > NCW PiRho- Because its Co-Ed . "tsroes rm `nsti ihst""enlgood rakm si amen ym"// "Brave Sir Robin ran away. Bravely ran away away." //A Macintoshes should be accelerated at 32ft/sec^2 \\ //mig Gun Control means using both hands \X/ A
dingebre@imp.sim.es.com (David Ingebretsen) (06/04/91)
In article <1991Jun3.204015.25689@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, sss10@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gun Control is a firm grip) writes: > In article <1991Jun03.051159.27197@ariel.unm.edu> nwickham@triton.unm.edu (Neal C. Wickham) writes: > >I get the idea that C= is waiting for 2.0 and is now concetrating their > >marketing resources on CDTV. I also get the idea that C= is going to make > >A LOT of money off CDTV. We were talking to a dealer in Santa Fe the other > >day and she said the schools up there were bugging her to get some CDTV's > >in. > > According to 2 dealers in NY, <Leighs and Amaginations> they sold a total of 7 > CDTVS... out of the 7 they have received. I dont know how long it took them to > do so but i get the impression they were gone pretty quickly. Is an > Encyclopedia <not almanac, Encyclopedia> available or going to be available? > Just a qucik question. > The June 1991 issue of Amiga World has a long article on CDTV and lists many titles that are available. I counted 30 that are out. One of them was the American Heritage Illustrated Enccyclopedic Dictonary. You have to tell me if this is an "almanac" or "Encyclopedia" Stuff deleted > > > > > NCW > > > PiRho- Because its Co-Ed . "tsroes rm `nsti ihst""enlgood rakm si amen ym"// > "Brave Sir Robin ran away. Bravely ran away away." //A > Macintoshes should be accelerated at 32ft/sec^2 \\ //mig > Gun Control means using both hands \X/ A David David Ingebretsen Evans and Sutherland Computer Corporation 600 Komas Drive Salt Lake City, UT 84108 (801) 582-5847 x3758 dingebre@es.com
greg@pfloyd.lonestar.org (Greg Harp) (06/04/91)
In article <1991Jun2.011552.12676@news.iastate.edu> taab5@isuvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett) writes: > I got my numbers from AmigaWorld and BusinessWeek. OK, I may have been >a bit off on the Amiga numbers, but even 720,000 sucks badly. With an >installed base *IN THE U.S.* of over 4 million Macintoshes, this means >that Apple has 5 MACs for every Amiga in the U.S. This is in spite of >the fact that the MACs carry a much higher price, and are in a marketing >segment where volume sales are more difficult than the Amiga's market >segment. You have to realize that the majority of Macs are either in offices or school labs. No, I don't have specific numbers, but just check for yourself. In the business/school market all you need are some rather glib salespeople (something Apple has in abundance). You don't even need a good machine to sell to those people if you know how to sell it. Ask me sometime and I'll tell you what Apple _almost_ pulled on my old school district. Fortunately our CS teachers got together and stumped the salespeople. > In other words, Commodore stresses mass-marketing, and still does not >sell as many Amigas as Apple sells Macintoshes. So much for mass- >marketing. Are you trying to say that Apple isn't doing mass-marketing? Nearly all of their sales have shifted to the Mac Classic. They're pushing those machines from every direction, and it's hurting them. They're not making any money right now, and their machine is still not _incredibly_ low in price (although I admit it's not too expensive, either). You call a company that is getting ready to lay off 1500 employees successful? So much for Apple... -- greg@pfloyd.lonestar.org----greg@pfloyd.UUCP----convex!egsner!pfloyd!greg chemist: n. Someone who wastes computer time on number-crunching when you'd far rather the machine were doing something more productive, such as working out anagrams of your name or printing Snoopy calendars or running life patterns. May or may not refer to someone who actually studies chemistry.
don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) (06/04/91)
In article <1991Jun3.235515.17401@javelin.sim.es.com> dingebre@imp.sim.es.com (David Ingebretsen) writes: >The June 1991 issue of Amiga World has a long article on CDTV and lists >many titles that are available. I counted 30 that are out. One of them was >the American Heritage Illustrated Enccyclopedic Dictonary. You have to >tell me if this is an "almanac" or "Encyclopedia" It's a dictionary. What's interesting about it is that there's a pronunciation guide (in text and sound formats...) for every word. Also, every word in a word's definition is 'hot'... click on it and you'll be taken to that word's definition. Since it's 'illustrated', I imagine a lot of entries are accompanied by pictures, but I didn't find any during my ~10 minutes of playing with it. -- Gibberish May the Publications Editor, AmigaNetwork is spoken fork() be Amiga Student On-Campus Consultant, U of D here. with you. DISCLAIMER: It's all YOUR fault.
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/05/91)
In article <3266@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil> nfs1675@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil (Michael S Figg) writes: > >It seems like it has been pretty much agreed here lately that Commodore has >NOT been taking a mass-marketing approach but a niche marketing position, >hence the ads (not 'adds') appearing mostly in video type magazines. I >don't totally agree with this approach but that seems to be the way it is. >Personally I think the Amigas' sales have been incredible considering the >marketing that has been done. The 500 has been pushed somewhat as a mass- >market type of machine but could be pushed more. > > Not totally true. Over the past two Christmases there have been large campaigns for the A500. I think it is possible that the A500 will be marginally advertised this Christmas with the CDTV getting the emphasis. BTW, for those in the U.S. who didn't see the ads last Christmas, they were sent to a select 12 cities on TV. New York, for example, wasn't on the list. I don't know exactly why. They appeared to emphasize cities where there was a combination of a user base and a dealer base. >---Mike, > -- Ethan Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
consp03@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (Kriston J. Rehberg) (06/05/91)
I have received information from CATS on becoming an Amiga developer. From the impression I got of the literature, most of Commodore's selling points pertained to video applications, with a little bit of business thrown in. I could care less about video, and from using several micro platforms I believe that Commodore should be touting the speed, raw power, memory, graphics for the business world. The Amiga is clearly the best product for these applications. Maybe Commodore should get their act together with business software development. Sure, you can become a member of CATS. But they seem to be falling back on video as the Amiga's main big feature. That's a shame, because from using Macs and IBMs at school, I am not pleased with their performance compared to my Amiga. Kris +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Kriston J. Rehberg, Student Consultant, SUNY Binghamton Computer Services | |consp03@BINGSUNS.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU +---------------------------+ |consp03@BINGVAXU.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU |Opinions expressed here are| |CONSP03@BINGVAXA.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU |my own and do not represent| |CONSP03@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU |those of this organization | +-----> Only Amiga makes it possible! <-----------+--------------------- ;-b -+
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/05/91)
In article <1991Jun4.214557.1557@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> consp03@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (Kriston J. Rehberg) writes: >I have received information from CATS on becoming an Amiga developer. > >Maybe Commodore should get their act together with business software >development. Sure, you can become a member of CATS. But they seem to >be falling back on video as the Amiga's main big feature. That's a >shame, because from using Macs and IBMs at school, I am not pleased with >their performance compared to my Amiga. > In what way? I didn't notice a bias in what I got. I'm curious, not being insulting. The AmigaMail, which is their technical journal, has a generic Amiga programming stint to it. >Kris > -- Ethan Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
nfs1675@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil (Michael S Figg) (06/05/91)
In article <1991Jun4.200011.7510@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > In article <3266@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil> nfs1675@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil (Michael S Figg) writes: > > > >It seems like it has been pretty much agreed here lately that Commodore has > >NOT been taking a mass-marketing approach but a niche marketing position, > >hence the ads (not 'adds') appearing mostly in video type magazines. > > > > > Not totally true. Over the past two Christmases there > have been large campaigns for the A500. I think it is possible > that the A500 will be marginally advertised this Christmas with > the CDTV getting the emphasis. I'll agree that Commodore has had some 'large' mass market campaigns for the 500, but it seems that what CBM considers large and what IBM and Apple consider large are two entirely different things. > BTW, for those in the U.S. who didn't see the ads last > Christmas, they were sent to a select 12 cities on TV. New York, > for example, wasn't on the list. I don't know exactly why. They > appeared to emphasize cities where there was a combination of a > user base and a dealer base. > I also heard that CBM targeted just 12 markets but also heard that they were just hitting areas where there WASN'T a strong user and dealer base, which seems more realistic to me. Let the users and dealers spread the word. Here in Columbus, where I consistently criticize myself for watching too much TV ( 2-3 hours per night) instead of hacking on the Amiga, I have only seen Amiga TV ads once, and that was on tape at a user group meeting. The user and dealer base has usually been very strong here. > >---Mike, > -- Ethan > ---Mike, -- | Michael Figg DSAC-FSD My Karma ran over your Dogma! | DLA Systems Automation Center | Cols, Ohio mfigg@dsac.dla.mil | CIS: 73777,360
jdickson@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Jeff Dickson) (06/06/91)
In article <1991Jun4.214557.1557@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> consp03@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (Kriston J. Rehberg) writes: >I have received information from CATS on becoming an Amiga developer. >From the impression I got of the literature, most of Commodore's selling >points pertained to video applications, with a little bit of business >thrown in. I could care less about video, and from using several micro >platforms I believe that Commodore should be touting the speed, raw >power, memory, graphics for the business world. The Amiga is clearly >the best product for these applications. > >Maybe Commodore should get their act together with business software >development. Sure, you can become a member of CATS. But they seem to >be falling back on video as the Amiga's main big feature. That's a >shame, because from using Macs and IBMs at school, I am not pleased with >their performance compared to my Amiga. > >Kris > Your impression was my first impression as well. But the literature from CATS says that there are many areas in Amiga programming yet to be explored. Recently, Commodore sent out a request for proposal of an absolutely non video oriented product. I don't have your impression any longer. I just don't think many developers stop to think or think there is much of a market for some of the other areas the Amiga has to offer. The Amiga is not a strong contender in the business market, but it is in the video market. This includes both games (yuck) and production. Down the line, the Amiga could grow stronger in the markets the IBM PC and MAC dominate, but sadly - not today. >I could care less about video Well, I don't care to develop videa applications. Mainly, because there's too many chefs in the kitchen. -jeff
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/06/91)
In article <3269@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil> nfs1675@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil (Michael S Figg) writes: > >I'll agree that Commodore has had some 'large' mass market campaigns for the >500, but it seems that what CBM considers large and what IBM and Apple >consider large are two entirely different things. > Yes, but what Commodore considers a high-earnings quarter and what IBM and Apple consider a high-earning quarter are equally different things. 8-) >> BTW, for those in the U.S. who didn't see the ads last >> Christmas, they were sent to a select 12 cities on TV. New York, >> for example, wasn't on the list. I don't know exactly why. They >> appeared to emphasize cities where there was a combination of a >> user base and a dealer base. >> > >I also heard that CBM targeted just 12 markets but also heard that they were >just hitting areas where there WASN'T a strong user and dealer base, which >seems more realistic to me. Let the users and dealers spread the word. Here >in Columbus, where I consistently criticize myself for watching too much TV >( 2-3 hours per night) instead of hacking on the Amiga, I have only seen >Amiga TV ads once, and that was on tape at a user group meeting. The user and >dealer base has usually been very strong here. > Some examples of cities (off the top of my head) were Dallas/Ft. Worth, Denver, San Francisco, Sacramento, Los Angeles. Those are areas with a decent Amiga basis. BTW, I thought that Columbus was also on the list of cities, it might have been Cincinatti. But you have to consider that the ads might not have been aimed at the TV shows YOU watch. The target was A500s. >---Mike, > >-- -- Ethan Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin