jal@athena.cs.wayne.edu (Jason Leigh) (06/05/91)
I was at the Chicago CES yesterday and I spoke to Commodore about CDTV. The representative told me that if I bought a CDROM drive for my Amiga I still could not run CDTV software. CDTV is not just a 500 with a CD player. There is evidently additional hardware to improve its sound capabilities (of course). Also in terms of misleading the consumer, Commodore was advertising its A500 for about $500. For the $500 you don't get a monitor but instead you get the A520 video adapter that lets you plug your 500 to a TV set at home. I hate to be the consumer who is going to be disappointed at the grungy display on his/her TV at home. Magnavox came out with its CDI (CD Interactive) multimedia competitor for CDTV. Essentially the system is like the CDTV system but the software available for CDTV was far more interesting. CDTV has the advantage over CDI of being expandable to accomodate, a keyboard, printer, disk drive and in the future some other form of expansion. The representative at Magnavox told me that the CDI was not expandable in anyway, or at least Magnavox had no intentions of allowing for attachments. I was however quite impressed by the clarity of CDI's images over CDTV's. One other thing that was very interesting (which complemented CDTV and CDI very well) was the Air Mouse. This is an infra-red pointing device which is tracked by a receiver. The receiver would then send the signals to the CDTV or CDI and cause a movement in the cursor on the screen. It has great potential for graphical slide presentations, and it works very well with CDTV's kids paint program. The professional model ($500) works with the IBM, Mac, Amiga. The consumer version ($99) works only with CDTV and CDI. Jason Leigh jal@cs.wayne.edu -- :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) ;^) O^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: :^) Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. (^: :v) Which of the two has the grander view? - Victor Hugo (v: :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v( $v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v:
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/05/91)
In article <1991Jun4.204135.17497@cs.wayne.edu> jal@athena.cs.wayne.edu (Jason Leigh) writes: > >I was at the Chicago CES yesterday and I spoke to Commodore about CDTV. >The representative told me that if I bought a CDROM drive for my >Amiga I still could not run CDTV software. CDTV is not just a 500 with >a CD player. There is evidently additional hardware to improve its >sound capabilities (of course). > Most current CDTV programs do run on Amigas with a Xetec drive. However, that is more expensive than CDTV and will not likely work with all future software as more and more of it take advantage of whatever is taking up that extra 256K in the ROMs. >Also in terms of misleading the consumer, Commodore was advertising its >A500 for about $500. For the $500 you don't get a monitor but >instead you get the A520 video adapter that lets you plug your 500 to a >TV set at home. I hate to be the consumer who is going to be disappointed >at the grungy display on his/her TV at home. > It isn't misleading unless the dealer tells you you're getting a monitor. As I see it, there are three possibilities: You are a novice and didn't expect a monitor. You are a novice and the dealer tricked you. You are experienced and were stupid for not making sure a monitor is included. Since when have you EVER heard of a company including the monitor in the price of a computer. $500 is for the A500, plus you get $250 (or whatever the latest ads say) in free hardware and software. >Magnavox came out with its CDI (CD Interactive) multimedia competitor for >CDTV. Essentially the system is like the CDTV system but the software >available for CDTV was far more interesting. CDTV has the advantage >over CDI of being expandable to accomodate, a keyboard, printer, disk drive >and in the future some other form of expansion. The representative at >Magnavox told me that the CDI was not expandable in anyway, or at least >Magnavox had no intentions of allowing for attachments. I was however >quite impressed by the clarity of CDI's images over CDTV's. > Was that image on a monitor or a TV? BTW, it is also a good sign that non of the CD-I machines that are coming onto the market this Christmas are expandable. It'll be an image problem. >One other thing that was very interesting (which complemented CDTV and CDI >very well) was the Air Mouse. This is an infra-red pointing device which >is tracked by a receiver. The receiver would then send the signals to the >CDTV or CDI and cause a movement in the cursor on the screen. It has >great potential for graphical slide presentations, and it works very well >with CDTV's kids paint program. The professional model ($500) works with the >IBM, Mac, Amiga. The consumer version ($99) works only with CDTV and CDI. > Third party products already! Wow! >Jason Leigh >jal@cs.wayne.edu > > >-- >:^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) ;^) O^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: >:^) Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. (^: >:v) Which of the two has the grander view? - Victor Hugo (v: >:v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v( $v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
cg108fgj@ICOGSCI1.UCSD.EDU (Dennis Lou) (06/05/91)
In article <1991Jun5.002829.22492@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: |>In article <1991Jun4.204135.17497@cs.wayne.edu> jal@athena.cs.wayne.edu (Jason Leigh) writes: |>>I was at the Chicago CES yesterday and I spoke to Commodore about CDTV. |>>The representative told me that if I bought a CDROM drive for my |>>Amiga I still could not run CDTV software. CDTV is not just a 500 with |>>a CD player. There is evidently additional hardware to improve its |>>sound capabilities (of course). |>> |> Most current CDTV programs do run on Amigas with a Xetec |>drive. However, that is more expensive than CDTV and will not |>likely work with all future software as more and more of it take |>advantage of whatever is taking up that extra 256K in the ROMs. |> What about a Xetec controller with a third party CDROM drive? I already have a FastTrack and getting a cheap SCSI CDROM drive should be no problem which translates to a $250 upgrade to my existing system... Dennis Lou || "But Yossarian, what if everyone thought that way?" dlou@ucsd.edu || "Then I'd be crazy to think any other way!" [backbone]!ucsd!dlou |+==================================================== dlou@ucsd.BITNET |Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak went to my high school.
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/05/91)
In article <9106050419.AA02145@icogsci1.UCSD.EDU> cg108fgj@ICOGSCI1.UCSD.EDU (Dennis Lou) writes: > >What about a Xetec controller with a third party CDROM drive? > >I already have a FastTrack and getting a cheap SCSI CDROM drive >should be no problem which translates to a $250 upgrade to my >existing system... > Someone here in the past has mentioned a device driver for sale (appr. $80) for driving a generic SCSI CD drive via a SCSI controller. -- Ethan Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
thomas@capitol.capitol.com (Mark Thomas) (06/05/91)
> In article <1991Jun5.002829.22492@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> > es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes > > In article <1991Jun4.204135.17497@cs.wayne.edu> jal@athena.cs.wayne.edu > > (Jason Leigh) writes: [ stuff removed for brevity ...] > >Magnavox came out with its CDI (CD Interactive) multimedia competitor for > >CDTV. Essentially the system is like the CDTV system but the software > >available for CDTV was far more interesting. CDTV has the advantage > >over CDI of being expandable to accomodate, a keyboard, printer, disk drive > >and in the future some other form of expansion. The representative at > >Magnavox told me that the CDI was not expandable in anyway, or at least > >Magnavox had no intentions of allowing for attachments. I was however > >quite impressed by the clarity of CDI's images over CDTV's. Could you name the titles that were being shown? I'm curious what they had. > Was that image on a monitor or a TV? BTW, it is also a > good sign that non of the CD-I machines that are coming onto the > market this Christmas are expandable. It'll be an image problem. A couple of points about CD-I. 1. CD-I is expandable. There are provisions for keyboard, mouse, SCSI port, parallel and serial ports, floppy drives... Just because Magnavox is not using these capabilities doesn't mean they don't exist. There are at least three other manufacturers that are going to have players by Christmas. One of these is rumored to have a MIDI interface. 2. By Christmas CD-I will probably have 50 titles out. I think you'll find they will be of consistantly high quality both in content and image quality. Don't judge CD-I by what you see in the demo booths, there's a lot of discs that haven't been seen yet. 3. One advantage CD-I has over CDTV IMHO is that all CD-I titles are designed specifically for NTSC/PAL TV displays, a trait that seems to be missing from CDTV. The CDTV I've seen (admittedly limited) suffer from some poor design choices. If you see a CD-I title you'll notice most of the on screen buttons/controls are quite large and inside the SMPTE TV safe area. Some of the CDTV stuff I've seen has tiny buttons scattered all over the screen. This is fine on a monitor, but the average joe consumer that hooks up a CDTV player to his $299 TV is going to be hard pressed to use some titles. 4. Remember that CDTV vs CD-I is Commodore vs Philips, Sony, Masushita and others. Who do you think will win a pissing contest :-) Please note: I am somewhat biased in this. I do CD-I for a living. Also note that my views are my own, not my company's. -- Mark A. Thomas Capitol Disc Interactive 202-625-0187/202-965-7800 2121 Wisconsin Ave. NW I speak for myself only Washington, D.C. 20007 Best: thomas@capitol.com OK: uunet!capitol!thomas -- Mark A. Thomas Capitol Disc Interactive 202-625-0187/202-965-7800 2121 Wisconsin Ave. NW I speak for myself only Washington, D.C. 20007 Best: thomas@capitol.com OK: uunet!capitol!thomas
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/06/91)
In article <THOMAS.91Jun5081932@capitol.capitol.com> thomas@capitol.capitol.com (Mark Thomas) writes: > Note that all my following remarks are based on the assumption that the reports from CES made here were accurate and complete. > > 1. CD-I is expandable. There are provisions for keyboard, mouse, SCSI port, >parallel and serial ports, floppy drives... Just because Magnavox is not >using these capabilities doesn't mean they don't exist. There are at least >three other manufacturers that are going to have players by Christmas. One >of these is rumored to have a MIDI interface. > It is true that the CD-I specs allow for expansion. However, I'd doubt that you'll see three other CD-I players by Christmas, at least not in any quantity. If they weren't prepared to show up at CES, even with a prototype, I can't believe they'll finish in time. Also, if the intial CD-I aren't expandable, that will hurt them in the long run, even if it changes. Mangavox will be advertising this Christmas and they won't be able to claim any expandability. > 2. By Christmas CD-I will probably have 50 titles out. I think you'll find >they will be of consistantly high quality both in content and image quality. >Don't judge CD-I by what you see in the demo booths, there's a lot of discs >that haven't been seen yet. > Same point as above. If they haven't been seen yet, what's the likelihood that they'll be widespread by Christmas? > 3. One advantage CD-I has over CDTV IMHO is that all CD-I titles are >designed specifically for NTSC/PAL TV displays, a trait that seems to be >missing from CDTV. The CDTV I've seen (admittedly limited) suffer from some >poor design choices. If you see a CD-I title you'll notice most of the on >screen buttons/controls are quite large and inside the SMPTE TV safe area. >Some of the CDTV stuff I've seen has tiny buttons scattered all over the >screen. This is fine on a monitor, but the average joe consumer that hooks >up a CDTV player to his $299 TV is going to be hard pressed to use some >titles. > Two things. First, most of the titles I saw did use large boxes, so I think that what you saw was the exception, not the rule. What did you see that used tiny buttons? Also, it is worth pointing out that the CD-I and CDTV markets are NOT joe-consumer, but brad-consumer who has money to spare. He'll have a $500 TV, most likely. Or at least a 18" or so, my guesstimate. > 4. Remember that CDTV vs CD-I is Commodore vs Philips, Sony, Masushita and >others. Who do you think will win a pissing contest :-) > >Please note: I am somewhat biased in this. I do CD-I for a living. Also note >that my views are my own, not my company's. > No one will advertise a product that isn't shipping, so only those companies that have a shipping-in-quantity CD-I product by Christmas will advertise. Currently only Magnavox is promising that, and they were saying October I believe. If the others will be later than that they may be too late. And this Christmas will probably make or break one or the other. If this Christmas, CDTV sells 600,000 units between the US and Europe and CD-I (which Magnavox is pricing $400 more) sells 300,000, who will developers emphasize on? Software is the real game here. Just like with Nintendo/Sega/etc., people won't buy something without software. There is already SHIPPING a good deal of CDTV software. Basically, we'll have to wait and see what materializes before Christmas. I am pretty sure CD-I will dominate Japan and CDTV will dominate Europe. America is the question. So why not convince your company to develop for CDTV, or are they waiting for Christmas to decide? -- Ethan Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (06/06/91)
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >thomas@capitol.capitol.com (Mark Thomas) writes: > [partially out of order for readability] > >> 1. CD-I is expandable. There are provisions for keyboard, mouse, >> SCSI port, parallel and serial ports, floppy drives... > > [...] if the initial CD-I [players] aren't expandable, that will hurt > them in the long run, even if it changes. Magnavox will be advertising > this Christmas and they won't be able to claim any expandability. You're assuming that expandability is a main feature. For the single sourced one-model-only CDTV unit, that may be true. But with diversity comes choice, and CD-I consumers will have multiple model/price choice. Consumers understand and _expect_ this. That's why there are both expandable and non-expandable stereos, 35mm cameras, CD players, etc. >>There are at least three other manufacturers that are going to have >> players by Christmas. > > [...] I'd doubt that you'll see three other CD-I players by Christmas, > at least not in any quantity. If they weren't prepared to show up at > CES, even with a prototype, I can't believe they'll finish in time. Huh? Whether they show up or not for Christmas, and in quantity or not, has nothing to do with being shown at CES. How provincial of you :-). In any case, a dozen different CD-I players were already shown in Japan last fall, as you know if you've been keeping up. I would suspect that companies such as JVC, Magnavox, Matsushita, Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, RCA, Sanyo, Sharp, Sylvania, and Yamaha can pump out units whenever they're ready to. >> 2. By Christmas CD-I will probably have 50 titles out. I think you'll >> find they will be of consistantly high quality both in content and >> image quality. Don't judge CD-I by what you see in the demo booths, >> there's a lot of discs that haven't been seen yet. > > Same point as above. If they haven't been seen yet, > what's the likelihood that they'll be widespread by Christmas? Same _non-point_, you mean. "If it hasn't been seen, it must not exist". Ever heard of movies still in editing rooms? ;-) I think it's rather refreshing that discs aren't shown before they're completely ready! best - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
cjfst4@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Chad Freeman) (06/07/91)
You mention that software may be an important part in the CD-I/CDTV competition. I read an interesting article in the local paper saying that two CD-I companies had licensed Nintendo software and/or characters. If CD-I has a laserdisk version of Super Mario Bros 6.541, you can bet it'll have a jump in sales over CDTV, which, according to INFO anyway, has boring titles (I have no personal experience). Also, I think the fact that Commodore will be the only ones making a CDTV machine will hurt it. I hate to say 'look at beta', but _look at beta_!
mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) (06/07/91)
In article <1991Jun5.002829.22492@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >In article <1991Jun4.204135.17497@cs.wayne.edu> jal@athena.cs.wayne.edu (Jason Leigh) writes: >> >>I was at the Chicago CES yesterday and I spoke to Commodore about CDTV. >>The representative told me that if I bought a CDROM drive for my >>Amiga I still could not run CDTV software. CDTV is not just a 500 with >>a CD player. There is evidently additional hardware to improve its >>sound capabilities (of course). >> > Most current CDTV programs do run on Amigas with a Xetec >drive. However, that is more expensive than CDTV and will not >likely work with all future software as more and more of it take >advantage of whatever is taking up that extra 256K in the ROMs. > CDTV has a couple of capabilities that I'd not expect to find in the Xetec system. First of all, CDTV has a CDTV.Device in ROM, so if an application uses it, it won't work on the Xetec system (do they have a CDTV.device?). Second, CDTV is capable of playing music from the CD. I don't know if Xetec provides this capability as well... I'd suspect that the Fred Fish Disk CD-ROM would work fine for both. -- **************************************************** * I want games that look like Shadow of the Beast * * but play like Leisure Suit Larry. * ****************************************************
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/07/91)
In article <1991Jun6.081240.5858@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >>thomas@capitol.capitol.com (Mark Thomas) writes: >> [partially out of order for readability] >> >>> 1. CD-I is expandable. There are provisions for keyboard, mouse, >>> SCSI port, parallel and serial ports, floppy drives... >> >> [...] if the initial CD-I [players] aren't expandable, that will hurt >> them in the long run, even if it changes. Magnavox will be advertising >> this Christmas and they won't be able to claim any expandability. > >You're assuming that expandability is a main feature. For the single >sourced one-model-only CDTV unit, that may be true. But with diversity >comes choice, and CD-I consumers will have multiple model/price choice. > That's the point. Initially, at least, CD-I doesn't seem like it will have diversity. It seems like it will have Magnavox, which costs more and isn't expandable, and I think you mentioned Panasonic which is questionable as they weren't able to show anything at CES. BTW, I consider expandability to be A feature, not the main feature. > >>>There are at least three other manufacturers that are going to have >>> players by Christmas. >> >> [...] I'd doubt that you'll see three other CD-I players by Christmas, >> at least not in any quantity. If they weren't prepared to show up at >> CES, even with a prototype, I can't believe they'll finish in time. > >Huh? Whether they show up or not for Christmas, and in quantity or not, >has nothing to do with being shown at CES. How provincial of you :-). > >In any case, a dozen different CD-I players were already shown in Japan >last fall, as you know if you've been keeping up. I would suspect that >companies such as JVC, Magnavox, Matsushita, Sony, Panasonic, Philips, >Pioneer, RCA, Sanyo, Sharp, Sylvania, and Yamaha can pump out units >whenever they're ready to. > Then why wouldn't they show up at the major US trade show, CES? It seems to me that if they could they would. I'm sure they've been shipping in Japan, but so has 16-bit Nintendo for quite a while. < I do know that it'll be here by Christmas > >>> 2. By Christmas CD-I will probably have 50 titles out. I think you'll >>> find they will be of consistantly high quality both in content and >>> image quality. Don't judge CD-I by what you see in the demo booths, >>> there's a lot of discs that haven't been seen yet. >> >> Same point as above. If they haven't been seen yet, >> what's the likelihood that they'll be widespread by Christmas? > >Same _non-point_, you mean. "If it hasn't been seen, it must not exist". >Ever heard of movies still in editing rooms? ;-) I think it's rather >refreshing that discs aren't shown before they're completely ready! It would be rather refreshing if the reason we didn't see the CD-I programs was because they weren't totally finished. It is also rare that companies show such standards when it costs them free advertising. We'll have to wait and see what happens this Christmas. I don't want to sound like a total rah-rah CDTV lover, but I want to get rid of the opposite image as well. CDTV has hardly failed. My question is simply this: why would Panasonic, et al, not show up at CES if they had a product to demonstrate? > best - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> best, -- Ethan 8-) Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
thomas@capitol.capitol.com (Mark Thomas) (06/07/91)
[Note: edited for brevity] [Also my poster is stupid. My address is thomas@capitol.com, NOT thomas@capitol.capitol.com as its listed above] In article <1991Jun6.005113.7848@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > Note that all my following remarks are based on the > assumption that the reports from CES made here were accurate and > complete. Hmmmm. Would you really want to make that assumtion :-) I am surprised that CD-I doesn't have a larger presence at CES. Philips is *supposed* to be showing players/titles, etc. Perhaps they were missed by the poster(s) of the CES info? > It is true that the CD-I specs allow for expansion. > However, I'd doubt that you'll see three other CD-I players by > Christmas, at least not in any quantity. If they weren't prepared > to show up at CES, even with a prototype, I can't believe they'll > finish in time. > Also, if the intial CD-I aren't expandable, that will > hurt them in the long run, even if it changes. Mangavox will be > advertising this Christmas and they won't be able to claim any > expandability. I have a Philips player sitting on my desk (course I'm a developer so that doesn't really mean anything). Remember that Magnavox is a Philips subsidiary, so the Magnavox player implies at least 2 versions of the player out there (Philips, Magnavox). Sure they'll be the same, but the consumer doesn't need to know that... I've seen/heard reports about players from 2 other manufacturers which were around in Sept of 90. One of these was a portable. I agree that non-expandable players may hurt CD-I, but I guess the basic question is does the average consumer (or the not so average techie consumer) want a MIDI port, serial and parallel ports, etc... I don't think the net population is a good cross section of the techie consumer either, so what we want is not a valid test. I think C= is taking the stance that CDTV is "not a computer". I know Philips is. > Same point as above. If they haven't been seen yet, > what's the likelihood that they'll be widespread by Christmas? How many CDTV titles were shown 6 months ago? I never saw/read of any, though I didn't really look to hard. Most of the CD-I titles under development are undergoing final testing as I write :-). The second round titles that are starting now may or may not make Christmas launch, but I feel confident that there will be a wide selection of titles available by Xmas. There is a huge amount of pressure to get titles done for launch. Causes much sleep loss and stress. > Also, it is worth pointing out that the CD-I and CDTV > markets are NOT joe-consumer, but brad-consumer who has money to > spare. He'll have a $500 TV, most likely. Or at least a 18" or > so, my guesstimate. True to a certain extent, but its really scary just how bad even expensive TVs are when it comes to display area. I have an expensive 25" monitor on my desk, and it chops right down to SMPTE safe at top and bottom. TVs are extremely variable when it comes to active display area. Also who will brad consumer buy from, a computer company or Philips/Sony/other Japanese manufacturer? Remember this stuff is being sold as a piece of A/V equipment, not a computer. > No one will advertise a product that isn't shipping, so > only those companies that have a shipping-in-quantity CD-I > product by Christmas will advertise. Currently only Magnavox is > promising that, and they were saying October I believe. If the > others will be later than that they may be too late. As I said before, I think you'll see the adds starting soon. I also have faith that we'll make Xmas (I have to, it pays the bills :-). Since I don't want to degenerate into a yes it will/no it won't contest, I'll let it rest at that. Let's see what happens. One other note, so far as I know, the initial CD-I players are going to sell at about $1000, not $1499 as previously mentioned. > Software is the real game here. Just like with > Nintendo/Sega/etc., people won't buy something without software. I agree. Software always makes or breaks a computer. Until there is a real base to compare CDTV vs CD-I, its kind of pointless to compare the two. > There is already SHIPPING a good deal of CDTV software. But CDTV players are already out. Actually if you want to see CD-I in action, check out the Museo Amparo in Mexico, they have a kiosk system up and running off CD-I now. There are also several industrial discs in use in Europe. > Basically, we'll have to wait and see what materializes > before Christmas. I am pretty sure CD-I will dominate Japan and > CDTV will dominate Europe. America is the question. Not sure I agree with CDTV dominating Europe. Philips is big over there. Again, guess we'll have to see... > So why not convince your company to develop for CDTV, or > are they waiting for Christmas to decide? I have an A1000 at home (see I'm not completely biased :-). Since Philips owns a chunk of us, I doubt CDTV development would go over too well :-( Again: Please note: I am somewhat biased in this. I do CD-I for a living. Also note that my views are my own, not my company's. -- Mark A. Thomas Capitol Disc Interactive 202-625-0187/202-965-7800 2121 Wisconsin Ave. NW I speak for myself only Washington, D.C. 20007 Best: thomas@capitol.com OK: uunet!capitol!thomas -- Mark A. Thomas Capitol Disc Interactive 202-625-0187/202-965-7800 2121 Wisconsin Ave. NW I speak for myself only Washington, D.C. 20007 Best: thomas@capitol.com OK: uunet!capitol!thomas
jal@pandora.cs.wayne.edu (Jason Leigh) (06/07/91)
Speaking of Nintendo, the CES witnessed the typical Nintendo fortress this year with many of its 3rd party developers occupying a significant portion of the floor around it. The interesting thing I thought was many of the new video titles I saw this year were old games put in Nintendo format. In fact some games were almost 8 years old (M.U.L.E. for example)! I find it interesting that all those good-ol games that we started out playing on the Apple 2's and Atari's years ago are coming back to be resold to the next generation of kids who think these are the latest in computer games. Of course there were noticibly more 3D games now that everyone has gone to 16 bit. But for the most part side-view-jump-and-shoot-em-up games seem to be predominant. I wonder if anyone will ever bring back Star Raiders? Jason Leigh jal@cs.wayne.edu -- :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) ;^) O^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: :^) Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. (^: :v) Which of the two has the grander view? - Victor Hugo (v: :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v( $v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v:
peck@pluto.ral.rpi.edu (Joseph Peck) (06/07/91)
In article <1991Jun7.132103.27817@cs.wayne.edu> jal@pandora.cs.wayne.edu (Jason Leigh) writes: > >I wonder if anyone will ever bring back Star Raiders? > Hey, I hope so! :) I just set up my old Atari 800 two weeks ago, and I forgot how much fun Star Raiders was. So what if the graphics are a little, ummm, grainy. Nothing a little porting couldn't fix.... >Jason Leigh >jal@cs.wayne.edu Joe Peck peck@ral.rpi.edu
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/07/91)
In article <136800@unix.cis.pitt.edu> cjfst4@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Chad Freeman) writes: >You mention that software may be an important part in the CD-I/CDTV >competition. I read an interesting article in the local paper saying >that two CD-I companies had licensed Nintendo software and/or >characters. If CD-I has a laserdisk version of Super Mario Bros 6.541, >you can bet it'll have a jump in sales over CDTV, which, according to >INFO anyway, has boring titles (I have no personal experience). Also, I >think the fact that Commodore will be the only ones making a CDTV >machine will hurt it. I hate to say 'look at beta', but _look at beta_! > LaserDisc version? I assume that was just a typo, as this is all CD. Getting Nintendo characters would be useful, but then again most people already HAVE Nintendos. Why would they buy CD-I and spend $40 for their Nintendo games when they could just get it for their Nintendo? It would make a difference, but a lot depends on how long it takes to come out and how much of an improvement it is over the Nintendo original. -- Ethan Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/07/91)
In article <THOMAS.91Jun7074740@capitol.capitol.com> thomas@capitol.capitol.com (Mark Thomas) writes: > >[Note: edited for brevity] > >[Also my poster is stupid. My address is thomas@capitol.com, NOT >thomas@capitol.capitol.com as its listed above] > >In article <1991Jun6.005113.7848@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> >es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > >> Note that all my following remarks are based on the >> assumption that the reports from CES made here were accurate and >> complete. > >Hmmmm. Would you really want to make that assumtion :-) I am surprised that >CD-I doesn't have a larger presence at CES. Philips is *supposed* to be >showing players/titles, etc. Perhaps they were missed by the poster(s) of >the CES info? > Philips canceled on CES a while ago. > >One other note, so far as I know, the initial CD-I players are going to sell >at about $1000, not $1499 as previously mentioned. > The list price for the Magnavox CD-I (the only one shown at CES) was $1,400, versus a $1,000 list price on CDTV. They'll both be discounted, but I doubt the Magnavox will be discounted $400 more than CDTV. CDTV has been found for just over $700. Also, many of those mass-retailers are going to charge either list or almost list. > >> Basically, we'll have to wait and see what materializes >> before Christmas. I am pretty sure CD-I will dominate Japan and >> CDTV will dominate Europe. America is the question. > >Not sure I agree with CDTV dominating Europe. Philips is big over there. >Again, guess we'll have to see... > The A500 is the best selling computer in both Germany and England. I think Commodore has the image there to pull off CDTV. Also, the Magnavox was only listed as selling in the U.S. by October. Nothing mentioned about Europe. If CD-I misses this Christmas in Europe they've lost, IMHO. -- Ethan Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
jal@pandora.cs.wayne.edu (Jason Leigh) (06/08/91)
Question is: Do we want to bring back Star Raiders into the new hi-res graphics era? It almost feels like we're trying to colorize classic movies... Jason Leigh -- :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) ;^) O^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: :^) Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. (^: :v) Which of the two has the grander view? - Victor Hugo (v: :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v( $v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v:
jtravis@dworkin.Amber.mccc.edu (Jim, Sysop) (06/09/91)
I understand that besieds having CDTV.device in ROM and teh ability
to play audio CDs, CDTV has a burst mode for access. I remember a fellow
from CBM posting that that a few weeks back, and just yesterday (6/6) I read
in Prodigy's Dow Jones report that Commodore introduced 2 new fuctions to
CDTV that would dramitically increase it's speed, without extra hardware.
Does anyone in CBM know if what that refers to - as usual, Prodigy was
extremely vague.
Jim Trascapoulos, CSAccess BBS, Lawrenceville, NJ
jtravis@dworkin.amber.com.mccc.Edu
(no real long .sig today, I've got a headache..)farren@well.sf.ca.us (Mike Farren) (06/09/91)
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >Huh? Whether they show up or not for Christmas, and in quantity or not, >has nothing to do with being shown at CES. How provincial of you :-). No, it's you who are provincial, I'm afraid. You really don't understand how consumer electronics marketing works. If it doesn't show at CES, the distributors and buyers WILL NOT BUY IT. CES is THE place where they make the buying decisions for the next few months, and Christmas season buying is definitely one of those decisions. >In any case, a dozen different CD-I players were already shown in Japan >last fall, as you know if you've been keeping up. So when can I buy my FM-TOWNS? Availability in Japan has NOTHING to do with availability in the rest of the world, the U.S. included. >I would suspect that >companies such as JVC, Magnavox, Matsushita, Sony, Panasonic, Philips, >Pioneer, RCA, Sanyo, Sharp, Sylvania, and Yamaha can pump out units >whenever they're ready to. You would be wrong. Well, maybe you'd be right, but the chances are much greater that they will be able to pump out units a month or two after they've got a proven market. >Same _non-point_, you mean. "If it hasn't been seen, it must not exist". >Ever heard of movies still in editing rooms? ;-) Yep, and movies that are still in editing rooms are generally not seen for months unless they've already been announced. CD-I, except for Magnavox, does not fall into this category. -- Mike Farren farren@well.sf.ca.us
monty@sagpd1 (06/15/91)
In article <THOMAS.91Jun5081932@capitol.capitol.com> thomas@capitol.capitol.com (Mark Thomas) writes: > 3. One advantage CD-I has over CDTV IMHO is that all CD-I titles are >designed specifically for NTSC/PAL TV displays, a trait that seems to be >missing from CDTV. The CDTV I've seen (admittedly limited) suffer from some >poor design choices. If you see a CD-I title you'll notice most of the on >screen buttons/controls are quite large and inside the SMPTE TV safe area. >Some of the CDTV stuff I've seen has tiny buttons scattered all over the >screen. This is fine on a monitor, but the average joe consumer that hooks >up a CDTV player to his $299 TV is going to be hard pressed to use some >titles. > START SOAP BOX MODE If it matters to anyone, CBM gave very specific guidelines in the CDTV Developers package that they sent out many, many months ago about icon/button sizes and text point sizes and the like. If third party developers do not follow the published guidelines what can CBM do (short of removing there developer status). They covered this problem in what I felt was a clear fashion. We all cry on this net about how commodore does not support us but seem to overlook the fact that we (developers/users) have responsibilities also. CBM can publish specs until their blue in the face, but until we, the 3rd party developers and users, do our part, the Amiga will fall behind! CDTV was not and is not intended to be played through a monitor! It is designed to function with the every day TV, so, any of you developers that are ignoring this fact are just cutting everyones throat. To the people that still want CDTV to be a super A500, stop and look at the market the CDTV is aimed at... it ain't you joe!!!!! Now after they have these other types hooked on what CDTV can mean to their home, it's time to have the A500/A2000/A3000 support for the CD technology. Isn't this what has been hinted about on the net -- CD-ROM drive addons for the A500/A3000 tenativly announced ? END SOAP BOX MODE Monty Saine