es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (02/27/91)
LAS VEGAS, NEVADA was once again the scene for the Winter Consumer Electronics Show. But Commodore Business Machines, Inc. was impatient to announce CDTV (Commodore Dynamic Total Vision) to the international consumer press. CBM scheduled their big press conference for the evening before CES began. Irving Gould, Gail Wellington, Nolan Bushnell and a host of other Commodore executives rolled out their worldwide introduction of CDTV. CDTV is Commodore's latest edition to the expanding line of hardware products based on the Amiga. (Commodore's remarkable UNIX-based machine comes in next). CDTV combines the technology of the Amiga and the storage capabilities of compact disc to create a new consumer product for learning and entertainment. Irving Gould, Commodore International Limited's chairman and chief executive officer, called CDTV "a revolutionary new product category that transforms consumer electronics and computer technology into a powerful new media that will enrich and enhance everyday life." Mr. Gould was standing before a packed audience of press and industry notables. Gail Wellington, Directory of Special Projects for Commodore International, Ltd., noted the large assortment of software developers for CDTV and introduced the newest, Grolier. The Grolier Electronic Encyclopedia contains all 21 volumes of Grolier's Academic American Encyclopedia on a single CD-ROM. Nolan Bushnell, general manager of the Consumer Interactive Products division of Commodore International Limited, noted in a companion press release, "The search and retrieval capabilities provide immediate access to information. Parents and children will have fun doing homework assignments or simply 'thumbing through' the information." Some of the new features available in this latest release of CDTV include screens designed by Jim Sachs, one of the Amiga's most famous artists. His audio screen (used whenever a standard CD is placed in the unit) displays a CD image and a section to list the tracks. As the user chooses the tracks (or the CDTV performs a shuffle), the numbers are displayed in small blocks. Once the CD is activated, a play head hovers over the appropriate disc area and a "laser" beam is seen traveling from the head to the disc and reflected back to the head. If the disc is stopped and removed from the player, both the head and the disc slide off the screen. When playing audio CDs it might be important to check if they are CD+G. CD+G refers to hidden graphic tracks that are encoded on the compact disc. Several compact discs currently contain these hidden graphic files that play like a slow music video, but CDTV is one of the few consumer-priced units that will display these secret graphics. CD+MIDI is another special feature of CDTV. It appears that some artists have encoded their music with MIDI information that will allow the listener to play the music through MIDI keyboards and create entirely different sounds. This feature was being constantly demonstrated by Mike Lehman, author of UltraCard and a developer for CDTV. One of the other great features demonstrated for CDTV is its built-in capability to allow software to be written in a multitude of languages. Several developers are taking advantage of this feature at launch, however, once CDTV is available, every developer will be able to create a single piece of software that can be used on any CDTV around the world. There was good news for Amiga 500 owners. Commodore displayed the A690 (working title) Amiga 500 peripheral that will allow Amiga 500 owners to use CDTV. Unfortunately, no firm pricing has been set for this peripheral, scheduled for a June 1991 release. Amiga 2000 and Amiga 3000 owners will need to wait longer for their access to CDTV. Although Commodore executives say that a device is under development, no one would offer an expected delivery date. While Commodore is unwilling to quote expected sales figures, it is interesting to note the degree of support and the talent working on CDTV products. Walt Disney Computer Software and Grolier lead a large number of developers who have adopted the CDTV format. One of the longest-awaited products for CDTV has been Tiger Media's Airwave Adventure -- The Case of the Cautious Condor. Tiger Media President Laura Buddine stated that the product was ready and waiting for the final release of CBM's CDTV. Based on a 1930's-style murder mystery with vintage comic book characters and scenes, "'Condor'", stated Ms. Buddine, "is the first title to be developed specifically with the interactive capabilities of optical disc platforms in mind." Tiger Media is also the producer of the CATS CD Manager which was instrumental in developing CDs using Sun Microsystems' SPARCstations. Barney Bear Goes To School will be Free Spirit Software's first product for CDTV. Available CDTV's release, Barney Bear Goes to School ($34.95) is a very popular children's interactive game that teaches how to get ready for school, safety, and participation in learning activities. Merit Software will release two products for CDTV, their Classic Board Games and All Dogs Go To Heaven Talking Crayon. Classic Board Games contains the three favorites Chess, Checkers, and Backgammon, completely redesigned for CDTV with play updates available in six different languages (French, German, Japanese, Spanish, Italian, and English). All Dogs Go To Heaven Talking Crayon is based on the animated film by Don Bluth. Music and words from the movie are available in all 30 pictures and children can obtain audio instructions at the touch of a button. Merit is an old hand at developing electronic crayon software; this is their sixth package. With over 46 packages available by the release of CDTV and with hundreds now under development (Commodore has announced that there will be two hundred titles by Christmas 1991), CDTV has a vast assortment of products coming forward. -- Ethan Q: What's the definition of a Quayle? A: Two right wings and no backbone.
tsarver@uunet.uu.net (Tom Sarver) (04/10/91)
>From: Jonathan David Abbey <uunet!cs.utexas.edu!jonabbey> >Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc >Subject: Re: CDTV- Let's clear the air... >Message-Id: <296@atacama.cs.utexas.edu> >(Ethan Solomita) writes: >> This is also a good question. I can't believe that this >>can be produced at as good a price as CDTV. And if it comes down >>to a quality/price issue, we all remember Sony/Beta. >The reason that VHS blew the doors off of Betamax included the fact that >only Sony supported Betamax, whereas the rest of the industry were >making cheaper and better VHS machines. In this case, the Betamax lesson >points the wrong way at Commodore, unless the rumour of Commodore licensing >of the CDTV technology comes true in a serious way. >[...] >> Two years is unrealistic. Kevin is claiming September or >>so, but I don't know about that. I'll believe it when I see it. I >>HAVE seen CDTV and it is shipping. >Undeniably a point in our favor, but I would believe the projected release >date.. >[...] >> If CD-I ships doing everything that Kevin says without >>any catches or negatives and it sells for $1,000, then maybe it >>will dominate CDTV. Of course, the feeling I'm getting from >>Kevin's post (mainly because I've never heard anyone else say >>these things about CD-I) is that you are getting a dream system >>for a ridiculously cheap price. Reminds me of the NeXT, except I >>know that Panasonic, etc., are in this for the money. >I've not heard that CD-I came with a blitter, but everything else he's said >holds with what I've heard. The mere presence of a quality compression >scheme in hardware gives CD-I an immediate technological advantage. The >rest of the specs sound very good as well, and a large number of manufacturers >will be making it. >Commodore has the advantage of a large base of software that could be quickly >transferred onto CD's from existing floppies.. Shadow of the Beast et al. >They also have the advantage of first release and name brand recognition in >the home computer market as a good value. (Those durn C64 adds were potent.) >And, they've got the nice James Sachs artwork, a better name for their >device (although whether third party manufacturers would want to throw their >manufacturing support behind a standard called Commodore Dynamic Total Vision.. >8-), and a small horde of loyal Amigans that could give it a bit of a push >in the states and a whale of a push in Europe. >Still and all though, it grieves me that CD-I should be so far in advance of >the Amiga technologically speaking.. it does make sense, though. Intel and >company are not dull-witted, CD-I is from Phillips and Sony, DVI (Digital Video Interaction) is from Intel. CBM's saving grace is the fact that the makers of DVI and CD-I desparately want licensees. That means they will make it easy to put their technology on a board. When all the CDTV hubbub started, I'm sure I saw stuff C='s desire to be compatible with at least one of these standards AS SOON AS ONE IS COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE. >they have just been locked to a lackluster >standard in the PC world. I would trust them to do a bang-up job when given >a fresh page, and CD-I has been in development for years. >It'll be interesting to see if Commodore advertises this thing well... >> -- Ethan >> The "technology" is 1) a standard for encoding data onto a CD-ROM (or any other digital device, but the standard accounts for CD-ROM's 170K/s transfer rate). and 2) a set of chips which will de-compress this standard on the fly to create the animation. It's not hard to imagine a board which will do the decompression and throw it into an S-VHS output. (in this case the CDTV would be acting like an intelligent CD-ROM drive and I/O cabinet.) >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Jonathan David Abbey \"Take your place on the great Mandela" P,P&M >the university of texas at austin \ jonabbey@cs.utexas.edu "Love me, love >computer science/math?/psychology? \ (512) 472-2052 my Amiga" -Me --Tom Sarver
hamilton@intersil.uucp (04/11/91)
In some previous message Jonathan David Abbey said: >>The reason that VHS blew the doors off of Betamax included the fact that >>only Sony supported Betamax, whereas the rest of the industry were >>making cheaper and better VHS machines. In this case, the Betamax lesson >>points the wrong way at Commodore, unless the rumour of Commodore licensing >>of the CDTV technology comes true in a serious way. >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Jonathan David Abbey \"Take your place on the great Mandela" P,P&M >>the university of texas at austin \ jonabbey@cs.utexas.edu "Love me, love >>computer science/math?/psychology? \ (512) 472-2052 my Amiga" -Me Actually, there were plenty of other manufacturers making Beta machines besides Sony. And I still haven't seen a VHS machine that has a jog shuttle wheel for editing that is 1/10 as responsive as my 5 year old SLHF900. Something about VHS tape handlers is screwy, I don't know why they can't get it right after all this time. They definitely made cheaper, but now way did they make better. (OK, from now on I'll stay in alt.vcrformat.wars) -- Fred Hamilton "Unlike most of you, Harris Semiconductor I am not a nut..." Santa Clara, CA (Although I own and love two Beta VCRs) -Homer Simpson
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (05/29/91)
You might also want to keep in mind this: CDTV isnt popular. And if CDTV still has its "everybody shut up about it" marketing strategy, it WILL flop. Lets be serious, now.. $800 is a bit steep for the equivalent of a CD player, VCR and game machine. For that much money, I could just as easilly go get an Amiga, with a cheap VCR and CD to boot. From what I saw of CDTV, it didnt really "shock and impress" me... It has the feel of more or less just an amusing toy for the rich. One that I would do without, and would NOT recommend. (lets all bitch out Arc since he values his own opinion!) Arctangent, and remember. Theres ALWAYS room for Jell-O. Napervile (Yes, VILE.. VIle, disgusting, and chock-full-o-yuppies..) Illinoize
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (05/30/91)
In article <arctngnt.0638@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: > > >You might also want to keep in mind this: CDTV isnt popular. And if CDTV >still has its "everybody shut up about it" marketing strategy, it WILL flop. >Lets be serious, now.. I'm not going to flame you for the rest of your article. You are entitled to your opinion, and it isn't really far off base. What I will flame you for is your first sentence. There is NO way you could know that. Certainly if somehow you did have a reliable source, you wouldn't be able to tell us. Usenet is NOT the audience for CDTV. It is for consumers of high-tech appliances. VCRs weren't cheap when they first came out either. Also, CDTV is still in the process of being SHIPPED. CBM has already said that, once CDTV is available in quantity nationwide, there will be ads. Apparently Britain already has ads. Time will only tell. -- Ethan Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
simon@ivem1.uucp (Simon) (05/31/91)
In article <arctngnt.0638@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: > > >You might also want to keep in mind this: CDTV isnt popular. And if CDTV >still has its "everybody shut up about it" marketing strategy, it WILL flop. >Lets be serious, now.. How can a brand new product be "popular", especially since it's not even out in quantity for the public, YET. The Marketing Strategy is not to keep a hush hush about the CDTV, but rather, it's a timing strategy, where CBM is getting products out first, then advertising. > >$800 is a bit steep for the equivalent of a CD player, VCR and game machine. >For that much money, I could just as easilly go get an Amiga, with a cheap VCR >and CD to boot. The whole point of CDTV is "it's not a computer". Go ahead and buy the Amiga and VCR and CD drive. You know what you're doing. But the average computerphobe won't. Hence CDTV's introduction. > >From what I saw of CDTV, it didnt really "shock and impress" me... It has the >feel of more or less just an amusing toy for the rich. One that I would do >without, and would NOT recommend. > Me neither. I wouldn't call it a "toy" for $800+. I'd call it a "expensive peripheral". But I also have access to an Amiga, 386AT, Sun Sparcs, SGI Iris', and macs. I may not have much money, but I have fun :^} -- * Simon Lee * Southwestern Regional Resource for * * simon@ivem1.ucsd.edu * Intermediate Voltage * * sulee@ucsd.edu * Electron Microscopy, UC San Diego *
mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) (05/31/91)
In article <arctngnt.0638@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: > > >You might also want to keep in mind this: CDTV isnt popular. And if CDTV >still has its "everybody shut up about it" marketing strategy, it WILL flop. >Lets be serious, now.. > >$800 is a bit steep for the equivalent of a CD player, VCR and game machine. >For that much money, I could just as easilly go get an Amiga, with a cheap VCR >and CD to boot. > >From what I saw of CDTV, it didnt really "shock and impress" me... It has the >feel of more or less just an amusing toy for the rich. One that I would do >without, and would NOT recommend. > > > >(lets all bitch out Arc since he values his own opinion!) >Arctangent, and remember. Theres ALWAYS room for Jell-O. >Napervile (Yes, VILE.. VIle, disgusting, and chock-full-o-yuppies..) Illinoize CDTV will fly if the software written for it really takes advantage of it. If a game with 10,000 HAM pictures in it becomes attractive to consumers, CDTV will be the only platform (in the near future) to be able to do it. If you want to play CDs (music), CDTV is expensive and less impressive (only 4x oversampling) than cheaper models. It doesn't have the power of a VCR (full frame animation) nor does the VCR have the power of CDTV (interactivity). CDTV does have the power of a game machine... I agree, it's pricy right now, but I paid $2250 for an A1000 with 512K of RAM, two floppy drives, and a monitor back in 1985. Today, the same machine can be had for $300. The Amiga itself didn't sell (wasn't popular) for a long time after its introduction either. Based upon the past record, CDTV will cost $100 by 1997, and somewhere along the way it will be cheap enough to afford. I'm not saying that it will succeed, because (like everything else CBM has made for the Amiga line) 3rd party support is the key. -- **************************************************** * I want games that look like Shadow of the Beast * * but play like Leisure Suit Larry. * ****************************************************
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (05/31/91)
>In article <arctngnt.0638@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowi >e J Poag) writes: >> >> >>You might also want to keep in mind this: CDTV isnt popular. And if CDTV >>still has its "everybody shut up about it" marketing strategy, it WILL flop. >>Lets be serious, now.. > I'm not going to flame you for the rest of your article. >You are entitled to your opinion, and it isn't really far off >base. What I will flame you for is your first sentence. There is >NO way you could know that. Certainly if somehow you did have a >reliable source, you wouldn't be able to tell us. > Usenet is NOT the audience for CDTV. It is for consumers >of high-tech appliances. VCRs weren't cheap when they first came >out either. Also, CDTV is still in the process of being SHIPPED. >CBM has already said that, once CDTV is available in quantity >nationwide, there will be ads. Apparently Britain already has >ads. > Time will only tell. > -- Ethan > You flamed me anyways. Think about it, Ethan. No one is going to spend $800 on a CD player, a VCR and an Amiga in one box. I could run out and get a CD player, a VCR, AND an Amiga, and have a more impressive and capable array of hardware, then wouldI get with a CDTV.. And for LESS MONEY. And like I said, if everyone is going to remain hugh-hugh about it, CDTV will be a sure flop. Dont walk around lying to yourself. I dont give very good odd's for CDTV's survival. So again, flame me for my opinions. Or, read it over, and find the logic in it. And if you DO write back, remember to always make room for Jell-O. Arctangent (Naperville, IL. USA)
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/01/91)
In article <arctngnt.1438@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: >>In article <arctngnt.0638@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowi >>e J Poag) writes: >>> >>> >>>You might also want to keep in mind this: CDTV isnt popular. And if CDTV >>>still has its "everybody shut up about it" marketing strategy, it WILL flop. >>>Lets be serious, now.. >> I'm not going to flame you for the rest of your article. >>You are entitled to your opinion, and it isn't really far off >>base. What I will flame you for is your first sentence. There is >>NO way you could know that. Certainly if somehow you did have a >>reliable source, you wouldn't be able to tell us. > >You flamed me anyways. Think about it, Ethan. No one is going to spend $800 on >a CD player, a VCR and an Amiga in one box. > >I could run out and get a CD player, a VCR, AND an Amiga, and have a more >impressive and capable array of hardware, then wouldI get with a CDTV.. > >And for LESS MONEY. > >And like I said, if everyone is going to remain hugh-hugh about it, CDTV will >be a sure flop. Dont walk around lying to yourself. I dont give very good >odd's for CDTV's survival. > > >So again, flame me for my opinions. Or, read it over, and find the logic in >it. And if you DO write back, remember to always make room for Jell-O. 8-) >Arctangent (Naperville, IL. USA) You are not listening to me. You are entitled to your (reasonable) opinion on the fate of CDTV. However, you stated explicitly "CDTV isn't popular" when there is NO WAY that you have any information to back that up. You can't know. No one knows but Irving Gould and his Board of Directors. I agree that there is a chance that CDTV won't take off. That risk is always there when a new product comes to market. I am not flaming you for that opinion. However, one thing you are overlooking is that, for $800, you can get a cheap CD and VCR, as well as an A500. But they won't relate to each other. CDTV combines the CD and computer into an integrated unit. Also, as IBM and Apple prove every day, people are stupid and can be convinced to overlook price. -- Ethan Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) (06/01/91)
Somebody recently mentioned that CDTV will be a "flop" because you can
buy a CD player and an Amiga seperate for much less. First, my dealer sells
CDTV for $739 (or about that) at normal price. The Ed discount is even
lower. CDTV just came out and soon will be selling in places like Video
Concepts. Do you really think it will still be selling at $800 by this fall?
This is Commodore we are talking about. I'm willing to bet that you can get
it for $650 normal price by this fall. Secondly, buying seperate items means
nothing here. I can also buy an IBM computer and a 67 Mustang seperately,
but the IBM computer will still be a dog. :) Same goes for CDTV. This is
a consumer player for interactive multimedia, not an Amiga and a CD player
that can't be used for much.
My biggest bitch with CDTV being a success is advertising. When is Commodore
going to start the big push for this machine? I want the software out now
and the advertising out yesterday. Spin you wheels for too long on this one
and CD-I eats the market. Study old Nintendo ads, pay the Apple Ad Agency,
just do whatever it takes to sell this machine.
Tom
--
Why purchase a MAC when an Amiga with the same CPU will run 99% of all
__ MAC software..and FASTER at that?! The same can be said of the IBM and
__/// Atari computers, and I can run those in a window. IBM's greatest sales
\XX/ tool is ignorance on the consumer's part. Only the Amiga! DEVO Anyone?arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (06/02/91)
Simon Lee: You brought up how infact CDTV can be duplicated by an Amiga, VCR and CD player...For less than $800. But the public isnt as smart, so they get swindled? Hmm. Theres seems to be a clash of ethics here. If I was in charge of the whole CDTV project, I wouldnt like the fact that the consumer is being swindled. But as for now, ill give CDTV a thumbs down. Sorry, hate to be such a party pooper, but EVERYONE has to get their heads out of the clouds and look at the facts eventually. I do like one thing, however... CDTV can be hooked up to any Amiga and be used as a CD-ROM drive. Thats what the guy whos running my local dealership is doing.. Hes using DCTV (Digitial Creations 24-bit digitizer/framebuffer) to digitize stillframes from CDTV... So hes got megz upon megz of stuff at his disposal with it, since theyre all in standard file format. Neato. And might I add that both CDTV and DCTV both deliver nice output. :) Arctangent
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/02/91)
In article <arctngnt.2272@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: >Simon Lee: > >You brought up how infact CDTV can be duplicated by an Amiga, VCR and CD >player...For less than $800. > >But the public isnt as smart, so they get swindled? > >Hmm. Theres seems to be a clash of ethics here. If I was in charge of the >whole CDTV project, I wouldnt like the fact that the consumer is being >swindled. > > Let me give you a clue. "Swindle" is a relative term, everyone here is out to make a profit. Radio Shack has its new multimedia PCs which start at over two thousand dollars (well over, if I remember right) for a 286 based system with a CD-ROM drive attached. Where's the software? Beats me too. CDTV, although in its infancy, already has a substantial amount of software, and, as with any new system, has software that does not use it to its potential. I think that $750 (a reasonable street price for CDTV) is a great price for what you are getting, if it is something you want to get in the first place. If you don't want what CDTV is, then obviously you aren't going to like the price. CDTV is a plug-and-play system that hooks up to your TV and stereo right in your living room and gives you a nice neat new electronic toy to impress your neighbors with. Will CDTV take off? I don't know. But you've now made two rather harsh statements (i.e. swindle) that just aren't appropriate. If the price is too high, don't buy it. People buy overpriced things every day. BTW, another perspective is that the CDTV is $250 more than an A500, which seems VERY reasonable to me. And if all you want is a CD add-on to your current Amiga, I believe Xetec sells what you are looking for. -- Ethan Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
pab@po.CWRU.Edu (Pete Babic) (06/04/91)
In a previous article, arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) says: > >You flamed me anyways. Think about it, Ethan. No one is going to spend $800 on >a CD player, a VCR and an Amiga in one box. > >I could run out and get a CD player, a VCR, AND an Amiga, and have a more >impressive and capable array of hardware, then wouldI get with a CDTV.. > >And for LESS MONEY. Well, first of all the CDTV does not contain a VCR. $800 is not a bad price at all for a computer and CD-Player combo. An Amiga 500 costs around five or six hundred dollars and I think Xetek wants (not sure) around 500 or so for there CD-Rom player, so an Amiga and CD-Rom combo would cost around $1000. Also you don't have everything nicely integrated in one box that looks at home as part of an entertainment center and you don't get the remote control. CDTV is aimed at a different market than the Amiga 500. The audiophile/videophile is the market CDTV is aimed at, I know of more than a few people who have spent seven or eight hundred dollars on an audio CD-Player alone, not to mention things like the laser video disk players, high end audio cassette tape decks, DAT tape decks, and other high end audio equipment. -- Pete Babic - pab@po.cwru.edu /// I'd rather be BOATING!! | /// /\ Member of A.C.E. | \\\ /// /--\MIGA (American Coaster Enthusiasts) | \\\/// The future is here now!
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (06/05/91)
DUh, Pete.. I referred to CDTV as a CD Player, VCR and an Amiga in one box, meaning you can essentially simulate a CDTV with those three things. NOWHERE did I say a CDTV included a VCR. It plainly isnt worth it. I give CDTV the thumbs-down for now.. Lets be real here. Arc
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/05/91)
In article <arctngnt.2964@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: > >DUh, Pete.. I referred to CDTV as a CD Player, VCR and an Amiga in one box, >meaning you can essentially simulate a CDTV with those three things. NOWHERE >did I say a CDTV included a VCR. > You haven't described to me how you actually combine those three things to make a CDTV. For example, lets say you want the encyclopedia, or the CD+G, or one of the larger games. You can't do it with those things. None of them can talk to each other. The Amiga can't control the CD and it can't control the VCR. The closest you could come would be adding a genlock, but then you still can't tell a VCR (at your price) to skip to a certain frame and start playing. My point is, whether you think CDTV is a good product or not, you are attacking it in a nonsensical way. You can't get the same thing by buying a VCR, CD player and an Amiga. It is a new product. No matter how little or much you think the current generation of software utilizes the potential, if the thing takes off software quality will improve. So you can say, "What it gives you isn't worth $999." But saying, "I can get the same thing for less and get a separate CD, VCR, Amiga," just doesn't make any sense. -- Ethan Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
simon@ivem1.uucp (Simon) (06/06/91)
In article <arctngnt.2272@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: >Simon Lee: > >You brought up how infact CDTV can be duplicated by an Amiga, VCR and CD >player...For less than $800. Actually, as I recall, you did. >But the public isnt as smart, so they get swindled? The GENERAL public doesn't care. If I went into an Electronic Gadgets store with money to burn, I don't care how much something costs, as long as it interests me. That's consumerism. If you're talking about Computer Wizzes like yourself, then this would not be the most economical route to take for your interests. But for an average person who has no idea about computers and prices and such, besides the fact that they have nothing to compare prices with yet, $800 isn't something that's looked upon, IF the guy who's buying has enough money during our recession time :) >Hmm. Theres seems to be a clash of ethics here. If I was in charge of the >whole CDTV project, I wouldnt like the fact that the consumer is being >swindled. Well, you're the consumer, not the producer. Honestly, if you were running a multi-million dollar business, how much would you care if people were swindled or not. Not that CBM is swindling us. I believe they are the most generous of all the computer makers out there. >But as for now, ill give CDTV a thumbs down. Sorry, hate to be such a party >pooper, but EVERYONE has to get their heads out of the clouds and look at the >facts eventually. Well, when the hard facts about it's sales comes in, we'll get our heads out of the clouds and then look at the facts. You have NO facts now. >I do like one thing, however... CDTV can be hooked up to any Amiga and be used >as a CD-ROM drive. Thats what the guy whos running my local dealership is >doing.. Hes using DCTV (Digitial Creations 24-bit digitizer/framebuffer) to >digitize stillframes from CDTV... So hes got megz upon megz of stuff at his >disposal with it, since theyre all in standard file format. Neato. Sounds good to me :^) >And might I add that both CDTV and DCTV both deliver nice output. :) And I might add that CDTV and DCTV use the same letters :^) >Arctangent -- * Simon Lee * Southwestern Regional Resource for * * simon@ivem1.ucsd.edu * Intermediate Voltage * * sulee@ucsd.edu * Electron Microscopy, UC San Diego *
mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) (06/07/91)
In article <1991Jun5.152659.25120@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > You haven't described to me how you actually combine >those three things to make a CDTV. For example, lets say you want >the encyclopedia, or the CD+G, or one of the larger games. You >can't do it with those things. > None of them can talk to each other. The Amiga can't >control the CD and it can't control the VCR. The closest you >could come would be adding a genlock, but then you still can't >tell a VCR (at your price) to skip to a certain frame and start >playing. Point of information: The Amiga CAN control the CD and it CAN control a number of VCRs and LaserDisk players. -- **************************************************** * I want games that look like Shadow of the Beast * * but play like Leisure Suit Larry. * ****************************************************
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/07/91)
In article <mykes.3256@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes: >In article <1991Jun5.152659.25120@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >> You haven't described to me how you actually combine >>those three things to make a CDTV. For example, lets say you want >>the encyclopedia, or the CD+G, or one of the larger games. You >>can't do it with those things. >> None of them can talk to each other. The Amiga can't >>control the CD and it can't control the VCR. The closest you >>could come would be adding a genlock, but then you still can't >>tell a VCR (at your price) to skip to a certain frame and start >>playing. > >Point of information: The Amiga CAN control the CD and it CAN >control a number of VCRs and LaserDisk players. > Hah! You fell into the trap! 8-) The whole point was that you (generic you) could get a CD, VCR and Amiga for less than a CDTV. That would require the VCR and CD to cost under $300 for both. There ain't no VCRs or CD players that'll come in with computer control for that price. -- Ethan Now the world has gone to bed, Now I lay me down to sleep, Darkness won't engulf my head, Try to count electric sheep, I can see by infrared, Sweet dream wishes you can keep, How I hate the night. How I hate the night. -- Marvin
plummer@hercules (Dave Plummer) (06/08/91)
In article <arctngnt.2964@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: > >DUh, Pete.. I referred to CDTV as a CD Player, VCR and an Amiga in one box, >meaning you can essentially simulate a CDTV with those three things. NOWHERE >did I say a CDTV included a VCR. > >It plainly isnt worth it. I give CDTV the thumbs-down for now.. Lets be real >here. > >Arc So get a clue and don't buy one. I'm sure international economics will survive without your input or participation.
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (06/09/91)
>In article <arctngnt.2964@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowi >e J Poag) writes: >> >>DUh, Pete.. I referred to CDTV as a CD Player, VCR and an Amiga in one box, >>meaning you can essentially simulate a CDTV with those three things. NOWHERE >>did I say a CDTV included a VCR. >> >>It plainly isnt worth it. I give CDTV the thumbs-down for now.. Lets be real >>here. >> >>Arc > >So get a clue and don't buy one. I'm sure international economics will >survive without your input or participation. Aww, poooooor baby. Just because I think CDTV will flop bigtime because of CBM's extremely "lazy" and even nonexistant marketing strategy, you call me an ass? Call CBM an ass, and tell them why,and mabye CDTV will sell. Get your head out of the clouds. Its not going to work to any huge degree. The fault dosent lie in CDTV's hardware, it lies in CBM, and the 13 braincells that make up their marketing department.. "Start that >>>WORD OF MOUTH<<< campign early!" Duhh.. \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Flicker turns me on. -BJP | Get back into the SeX PiSToLs if you program in Arctangent, Naperville IL. | C. It helps. // ---------------------------- \X/ A M I G A ! \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) (06/09/91)
In article <1991Jun7.160034.3368@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >In article <mykes.3256@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes: >>In article <1991Jun5.152659.25120@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >>> You haven't described to me how you actually combine >>>those three things to make a CDTV. For example, lets say you want >>>the encyclopedia, or the CD+G, or one of the larger games. You >>>can't do it with those things. >>> None of them can talk to each other. The Amiga can't >>>control the CD and it can't control the VCR. The closest you >>>could come would be adding a genlock, but then you still can't >>>tell a VCR (at your price) to skip to a certain frame and start >>>playing. >> >>Point of information: The Amiga CAN control the CD and it CAN >>control a number of VCRs and LaserDisk players. >> > Hah! You fell into the trap! 8-) The whole point was that >you (generic you) could get a CD, VCR and Amiga for less than a >CDTV. That would require the VCR and CD to cost under $300 for >both. There ain't no VCRs or CD players that'll come in with >computer control for that price. > -- Ethan > > CDTV comes with 1Meg of RAM. How much does the A500P cost? Does that make your (generic "your" 7-) cost go up? There is NO trap. CDTV still can control the CD, VCRs and Laserdisks. And it is cheap enough to make any computer into an infrared remote controller. This argument is moot anyway, because CDTV has ZERO capabilities of a VCR and a VCR has ZERO capabilities of CDTV. With what you propose to buy with your money, you can watch movies, listen to music, and will have a small/slow computer. CDTV has the ability to store 15,000 HAM mode images (uncompressed) and call them up on demand under software control. You can't do anything like this with a separate VCR, CD Player and an A500. And this is only a single example of capabilities that CDTV has. But hey, I'm not saying that CDTV is worth it at all. All I'm saying is that what CDTV is capable of isn't well understood. CDTV WILL be successful if there is software that uses its capabilities well and is really worth using and no cheaper platform can do acceptably. -- **************************************************** * I want games that look like Shadow of the Beast * * but play like Leisure Suit Larry. * ****************************************************
orovner@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Oleg Rovner) (06/09/91)
In article <arctngnt.4650@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: >>DUh, Pete.. I referred to CDTV as a CD Player, VCR and an Amiga in one box, >>meaning you can essentially simulate a CDTV with those three things. NOWHERE >>did I say a CDTV included a VCR. >>> >>>It plainly isnt worth it. I give CDTV the thumbs-down for now.. Lets be real >>>here. >>> >>>Arc >> I'd like to point out that one can also simulate a RAM chip by winding wire arround a ferrite core. A lot of things can be "simulated" by a lot of other things, just not as conveniently, and convenience is the name of the game... (at least in consumer marketing) dumb news software at UCSD bites the big brass monkey > -- "One man's 'harsh and bitter truth' is another man's 'foolish and uninformed fiction'" -d.haynie
takeuch@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Travis L Takeuchi) (06/19/91)
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