ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) (06/12/91)
Is it just me or is Commodore doing things right in a big way this year?
Let's run down the list:
1) Introduction of a great new on-sight service agreement program that even
the big boys don't have.
2) Introduction of a great new trade-up program with huge discounts that makes
the 3000 reachable, even for lowly Vic-20 owners of years past.
3) Introduction of a great new leasing program, ideal for a company and even
some non-business customers.
4) Smart marketing methods which have given CDTV more free press than any
other product Commodore has produced. [Somebody mentioned that the lack of
CDTV ads was due to Commodore allowing the press to soak up the machine first,
and I think they are right.]
5) The great idea to give a free CDTV unit to each and every user group that
will demo the machine at retail outlets when the big ad push begins.
6) Did I miss anything else?
I know Commodore still has alot to prove when it comes to advertising the
Amiga but I'd have to give them credit for what they have done this year. My
ideal situation of where things go from here: CDTV advertising hits in force
by late August, CDTV sales blast off by Christmas, Commodore uses the huge
flow of cash to flood the TV and magazine ads with the Amiga 500 for Christmas
sales [and hits the video and workstation magazines with toaster and 3000UX
related ads]. Next spring the new 32 bit chip set with downward compatibility
to the old set comes out in a new machine- A 25Mhz 68040 based computer with
DMA ability to burn. The new version of the 500 hits by August- A 16Mhz 68030
based computer with three standard card slots and detached keyboard for around
$900 [to replace the 2000]. A version with no slots but an 86 pin expansion
port [to replace the regular 500] sells for around $580. Hey, a guy can dream
can't he? :)
Tom
Why purchase a MAC when an Amiga with the same CPU will run 99% of all
__ MAC software..and FASTER at that?! The same can be said of the IBM and
__/// Atari computers, and I can run those in a window. IBM's greatest sales
\XX/ tool is ignorance on the consumer's part. IBM=(I)'ve (B)een (M)islead.
A If you want to be popular then buy a MAC....If you want to be powerful
M then buy an Amiga..and use all that money you save to buy friends. :')
I Classic=B&W, no blitter, no DMA, almost no sound, almost no expansion,
G price tag of $1000. Amiga 500=4096 colors, DMA galore, great sound, an
A 86 pin expansion port, price tag of $500. Confused? Only the Amiga!!!! jal@pandora.cs.wayne.edu (Jason Leigh) (06/12/91)
While we're on this subject of marketing I've been thinking about Apple is doing with Macintosh. I teach an introductory course in computer science and my first assignment usually is to have all my students go to the lab and check out a Guided Tour to the Macintosh disk. This is an autobooting disk that slowly but surely teaches the user how to use the machine without having to read the manual. In addition I've noticed that System 7 has had some nice improvements to help users; in particular Thought Balloons. There are small windows in the shape of comic strip thought balloons that appear whenever your mouse comes into contact with something that has been programmed to include some help information. For example when you move the mouse over to the resize gadget a balloon appears explaining what the gadget does. That has great potential for novice users and especially users of any new piece of software. After a while these balloons start to get in the way, but fortunately there is a menu selection that will allow you to turn it off. Question: Wouldn't it help if Amiga also had a guided tour disk that would make the Amiga an easier machine to use; like the Mac? And, who would like to write a PD equivalent of thought balloons for the Amiga (perhaps using voice as well)? :^) Jason Leigh -- :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) ;^) O^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: :^) Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. (^: :v) Which of the two has the grander view? - Victor Hugo (v: :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v( $v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v:
bengeult@ssc-vax (Greg Bengeult) (06/12/91)
In article <1991Jun12.023209.19315@cs.wayne.edu> jal@pandora.cs.wayne.edu (Jason Leigh) writes: > >[...] >I teach an introductory course in computer science and my first assignment >usually is to have all my students go to the lab and check out a >Guided Tour to the Macintosh disk. This is an autobooting disk that >slowly but surely teaches the user how to use the machine without having >to read the manual. [..stuff about 'help balloons'..] > >Question: Wouldn't it help if Amiga also had a guided tour disk that >would make the Amiga an easier machine to use; like the Mac? > >Jason Leigh 'Way back in 1985, when I bought my A1000, it came with a bootable disk from MindScape that took the user on a guided tour of the Amiga, including a pretty good basic description of its innards. It had real nice graphics and animation, and walked the new user through disk manipulation, use of the mouse, windows, screens, menus, attaching new hardware, and more. If I get the chance, I will see if I can find the original and try it on my current A2000HD to see if it still works under 1.3 AmigaDOS. I have never seen 'Guided Tour to the Macintosh', but I would guess that the MindScape intro disk is a pretty close match to it. -- Greg Bengeult UUCP: ...!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!bengeult // //| MailStop 8Y-62 INTERNET: bengeult@ssc-vax.boeing.com // //|| P.O. Box 3999 FAX: (206) 773-8757 \\ // //-||- Seattle, WA 98124-2499 TEL: (206) 773-8515 \// // ||
chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch) (06/13/91)
[about commodore's Marketing...] Well, i don't know how true it is, but according to the Rags.. CBM fired their PR company. the one they've done business with for 4 years.. is it me, or does all this great marketing start when cbm pulled the plug on their pr firm? .--------------------------------------------------------------------------. | UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back | | ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do | | INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's | |-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" | | Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in | | welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". | `--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) (06/13/91)
In <1991Jun12.023209.19315@cs.wayne.edu> jal@pandora.cs.wayne.edu (Jason Leigh) writes: [description of Mac's autobooting 'tour guide disk' deleted] >Question: Wouldn't it help if Amiga also had a guided tour disk that >would make the Amiga an easier machine to use; like the Mac? It has: it's called First Steps or something (I've got the German version: Erste Schritte), it includes graphics, all mouse-driven (until you get to the shell stuff, but mouse is still supported) It's great and it's more than 3 years old :) (I got it with the 1.2 WB) >Jason Leigh -Thomas. This account expires on 01-Sep-91. No more VR, it's RL now! :) --------------------------------------------------------------- ____ Thomas Tavoly, Commercial Computer Science, HEAO Utrecht, NL. / / / ptavoly@praxis.cs.ruu.nl - Thomas speaking! .sig v3.3 AMIGA / --------------------------------------------------------------- ____ / / / ICE - brain-blasting zombie-making voodoo electronics. \ \ \/ / / --------------------------------------------------------------- \_\_\/_/
jal@rhea.cs.wayne.edu (Jason Leigh) (06/13/91)
>It has: it's called First Steps or something (I've got the German version: >Erste Schritte), it includes graphics, all mouse-driven (until you get >to the shell stuff, but mouse is still supported) > >It's great and it's more than 3 years old :) (I got it with the 1.2 WB) > >>Jason Leigh > > -Thomas. I don't think the American Amiga's have these disks. I bought a 500 4 years ago, and a 2000 and 2500 recently; no First Steps disk. Jason -- :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) ;^) O^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: (^: :^) Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. (^: :v) Which of the two has the grander view? - Victor Hugo (v: :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v) :v( $v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v: (v:
plav@cup.portal.com (Rick M Plavnicky) (06/14/91)
A recent article posted by bengeult@ssc-vax (Greg Bengeult) states: > 'Way back in 1985, when I bought my A1000, it came with a bootable disk > from MindScape that took the user on a guided tour of the Amiga, including [description of Amiga Tutor omitted] > I get the chance, I will see if I can find the original and try it on my > current A2000HD to see if it still works under 1.3 AmigaDOS. I have I hadn't even thought about that one in years! I just dug out the disk (it's on the 1.1 Extras disk, BTW) and gave it a shot. Works just fine under 1.3, and looks a good deal nicer on my A2320-enhanced display than it did on the `stock' display to boot. I always liked the multi-colored concentric circle fade in/out, and the little gray mouse that waved at you when you quit. Not too fancy by today's standards, I guess, but pretty slick for what, late '85 - early '86? Thanks for reminding me, Greg. > Greg Bengeult UUCP: ...!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!bengeult // //| /* Rick Plavnicky ...!sun!cup.portal.com!plav -or- plav@cup.portal.com */
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (06/14/91)
In article <1991Jun13.092203.23979@cs.ruu.nl> ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) writes: >In <1991Jun12.023209.19315@cs.wayne.edu> jal@pandora.cs.wayne.edu (Jason Leigh) writes: > >[description of Mac's autobooting 'tour guide disk' deleted] > >>Question: Wouldn't it help if Amiga also had a guided tour disk that >>would make the Amiga an easier machine to use; like the Mac? > >It has: it's called First Steps or something (I've got the German version: >Erste Schritte), it includes graphics, all mouse-driven (until you get >to the shell stuff, but mouse is still supported) > >It's great and it's more than 3 years old :) (I got it with the 1.2 WB) It's past. It was dropped for cost reasons. The success of such a thing is hard to estimate. When you count the telephone calls to our hotline, this thing didn't have any impact... -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) (06/17/91)
In <1360@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >In article <1991Jun13.092203.23979@cs.ruu.nl> ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) writes: >>In <1991Jun12.023209.19315@cs.wayne.edu> jal@pandora.cs.wayne.edu (Jason Leigh) writes: >> >>It has: it's called First Steps or something (I've got the German version: >>Erste Schritte), it includes graphics, all mouse-driven (until you get >>to the shell stuff, but mouse is still supported) >> >>It's great and it's more than 3 years old :) (I got it with the 1.2 WB) > >It's past. It was dropped for cost reasons. Cost reasons? One disk (~25 cents) + duplication costs (nearly nihil, since duplication companies frequently give discounts on disks themselves if you use their services). All in all, I would exaggerate if the whole package would be more than 5 bucks (including author's royalties!). Seems to me this is not much on ~$400 (for the cheapest models). >The success of such a thing is hard to estimate. When you count the >telephone calls to our hotline, this thing didn't have any impact... Hotlines are usually called with _gripes_. Seems to me the package was simply self-explanatory. I already was dreaming about an Amiga for a long time by then (just as I do now with the A3000 :), so I didn't need it, but it should really be a great help for novices. Hmm.. I rather think CBM had some copyright dispute with the author then... (Perhaps he got too greedy?) >Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... >Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk -Thomas. This account expires on 01-Sep-91. No more VR, it's RL now! :) --------------------------------------------------------------- ____ Thomas Tavoly, Commercial Computer Science, HEAO Utrecht, NL. / / / ptavoly@praxis.cs.ruu.nl - Thomas speaking! .sig v3.3 AMIGA / --------------------------------------------------------------- ____ / / / ICE - brain-blasting zombie-making voodoo electronics. \ \ \/ / / --------------------------------------------------------------- \_\_\/_/
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (06/18/91)
In article <1991Jun17.162549.18165@cs.ruu.nl> ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) writes: >In <1360@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: > >>>It has: it's called First Steps or something (I've got the German version: >>>Erste Schritte), it includes graphics, all mouse-driven (until you get >>>to the shell stuff, but mouse is still supported) >> >>It's past. It was dropped for cost reasons. > >Cost reasons? One disk (~25 cents) + duplication costs (nearly nihil, since >duplication companies frequently give discounts on disks themselves if >you use their services). All in all, I would exaggerate if the whole package >would be more than 5 bucks (including author's royalties!). Well, plus handling (put it into the box), packaging, author's royalties,... You have to roughly estimate that every dollar pure costs mean 3 dollars added to retail price (very rough estimate though). And then ca. 10 $ are already some price argument. >Seems to me this is not much on ~$400 (for the cheapest models). Sorry, it is. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) (06/20/91)
In <1380@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >In article <1991Jun17.162549.18165@cs.ruu.nl> ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) writes: >>In <1360@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >> >>>>It has: it's called First Steps or something (I've got the German version: >>>>Erste Schritte), it includes graphics, all mouse-driven (until you get >>>>to the shell stuff, but mouse is still supported) >>> >>>It's past. It was dropped for cost reasons. >> >>Cost reasons? One disk (~25 cents) + duplication costs (nearly nihil, since >>duplication companies frequently give discounts on disks themselves if >>you use their services). All in all, I would exaggerate if the whole package >>would be more than 5 bucks (including author's royalties!). > >Well, plus handling (put it into the box), packaging, author's royalties,... >You have to roughly estimate that every dollar pure costs mean 3 dollars >added to retail price (very rough estimate though). And then ca. >10 $ are already some price argument. Yes, there must be guy being paid for putting the disk in the box, one that checks whether the disk has been put in the box properly (QC) and a girl who brings them coffee... Anyway, what packging? A label of 3 cents??? I already mentioned the author's royalties, no need to restate it, but rather think about this: I would estimate a fee of 15 US$ if this package was shareware, but that is not the case, as shareware authors maybe get a few hundred cheques if their package is really successful (like JR-Comm), but this disk is (or should be) distributed with every Amiga, which means hundreds of thousands of copies. Now if the author would get 50 dollar cents per copy, he would be awarded most royally and be able to buy a Porsche at least. Since he and CBM would know this in advance, he would not get more than that! Not many people have sold that much copies, except maybe for D.Braben (Elite). David Braben now has two Ferraris... So: Author's royalties: 0.50 US$/copy Don't tell me that every buck is equal to three on the market, because sales tax is nowhere 300% !! Anyway your argument does not hold, since 'on the market' means the extra profit the dealers make by increasing the price, C='s manufacturing costs have nothing to do with this! There is absolutely no need to make extra costs apart from 1 extra disk, 1 label, 1 copy of the program on the disk (duplication), 1 royalty for the author. There is NO marketing involved, it is just an extra when you open the box. I stated before that I would be greatly exaggerating if I put a pricetag of 5 Dollars on it, but it seems to me that 1 or maybe 1.50 US$ is more appropriate. >>Seems to me this is not much on ~$400 (for the cheapest models). > >Sorry, it is. I just can't understand that 1 to 1.5 US$ is too much.. CBM can save that on telephone costs to users about questions they would have without the tutorial disk... (And the time/employees they use to answer questions) The point is, it should be continued since the returns are much higher than the expenditures. Now tell us the real reasons :^) >Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... >Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk -Thomas. This account expires on 01-Sep-91. No more VR, it's RL now! :) --------------------------------------------------------------- ____ Thomas Tavoly, Commercial Computer Science, HEAO Utrecht, NL. / / / ptavoly@praxis.cs.ruu.nl - Thomas speaking! .sig v3.3 AMIGA / --------------------------------------------------------------- ____ / / / ICE - brain-blasting zombie-making voodoo electronics. \ \ \/ / / --------------------------------------------------------------- \_\_\/_/
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (06/21/91)
In article <1991Jun20.124430.16546@cs.ruu.nl> ptavoly@cs.ruu.nl (Peter Tavoly) writes: >In <1380@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: > >>>All in all, I would exaggerate if the whole package >>>would be more than 5 bucks (including author's royalties!). >> >>Well, plus handling (put it into the box), packaging, author's royalties,... >>You have to roughly estimate that every dollar pure costs mean 3 dollars >>added to retail price (very rough estimate though). And then ca. >>10 $ are already some price argument. > >So: Author's royalties: 0.50 US$/copy It was more :-( >Don't tell me that every buck is equal to three on the market, because >sales tax is nowhere 300% !! No, it's not sales tax, it's side costs fro Commodore. In every piece shipped to a consumer, you must calculate all the current costs that are running (fees, the house, *everything*). All this leads to a tremendous overhead if calculating correctly. Please understand that I'm not able (or allowed :-) to tell details. I'm not in the finances department. >I just can't understand that 1 to 1.5 US$ is too much.. CBM can save that >on telephone costs to users about questions they would have without the >tutorial disk... (And the time/employees they use to answer questions) 1) It's really more. 2) With your second remark you're quite true, but this is a matter that is soo difficult to explain to management... -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk