arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (06/15/91)
Again, this is the reason why CD-I will beat out CDTV in the home-based multimedia race.. CD-I is supported, CDTV is not. Its as simple as that. Anywhere I look, I can find stuff on CD-based multimedia, and almost ALWAYS CD-I is mentioned, not CDTV. Because CD-I has been in the public eye longer. CDTV will die out not because of hardware reasons, but because Commodore has a cranial-rectal inversion in its advertising technique. "Start that word of mouth campaign early!" A CLASSIC quote of stupidity. CBM-Bashing is the only way youre going to get direct change. \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Flicker turns me on. -BJP | Get back into the SeX PiSToLs if you program in Arctangent, Naperville IL. | C. It helps. // ---------------------------- \X/ A M I G A ! \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
rjc@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (06/15/91)
In article <arctngnt.6816@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: > >Again, this is the reason why CD-I will beat out CDTV in the home-based >multimedia race.. CD-I is supported, CDTV is not. > >Its as simple as that. > >Anywhere I look, I can find stuff on CD-based multimedia, and almost ALWAYS >CD-I is mentioned, not CDTV. Because CD-I has been in the public eye longer. >CDTV will die out not because of hardware reasons, but because Commodore has a >cranial-rectal inversion in its advertising technique. I bet 80 out of 100 persons I ask on the street haven't heard of CD-I or CDTV. There are no TV or print ads for CD-I (well I haven't see any). > >"Start that word of mouth campaign early!" > >A CLASSIC quote of stupidity. > >CBM-Bashing is the only way youre going to get direct change. But not on the net, write in a letter if you want change. Bashing CBM on a bbs, or on usenet isn't going to change CBM's advertising policy. CBM engineers read these groups, but CBM marketing doesn't. I think many well written letters to CBM marketing will produce more of an effect than whining on the net. >\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ >Flicker turns me on. -BJP | Get back into the SeX PiSToLs if you program in >Arctangent, Naperville IL. | C. It helps. // >---------------------------- \X/ A M I G A ! >\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ -- / INET:rjc@gnu.ai.mit.edu * // The opinions expressed here do not \ | INET:r_cromwe@upr2.clu.net | \X/ in any way reflect the views of my self.| \ UUCP:uunet!tnc!m0023 * /
sss10@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gun Control is a firm grip) (06/15/91)
1 thing that commodore should do <assuming they arent already trying> is in the NYC area, getting 2 chains of stores selling their CDTV> "Nobody Beats the Wiz" and Newmark & Lewis would be 2 outlets they must get the machines into if commodore is really serious about making CDTV happen. Of course they probably already know this but just makin sure. PiRho- Because its Co-Ed! Macintoshes should be accelerated at 32ft/sec^2 Gun Control means using both hands "Maybe You should be accelerated at 32'/sec^2 off a cliff onto some jagged rocks. Elitist smeghead" ianj@ijpc.UUCP in [L76131w164w@ijpc.UUCP]
lmbailey@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Laurana Bailey) (06/16/91)
In article <arctngnt.6816@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: | | Again, this is the reason why CD-I will beat out CDTV in the home-based | multimedia race.. CD-I is supported, CDTV is not. It IS? Show me a CD-I machine and the software for it. I don't see any at my local Sears or Montgomery Wards. I have yet, in fact, seen ANY CD-I machine outside of prototypes at trade shows. Where do you think a lot of the early CDTV software has come from? It was from CD-I developers who have as of yet to make any money on their efforts. CDTV provided them a means to finally make some money on their work. Phillips has been promising CD-I for the last 6 years. SIX YEARS. Almost as long as the Amiga has been on the market. Show me a single CD-I unit I can go down to my store and buy and I'll take your point in stride. Otherwise it's quite obvious you don't know what the bloody hell you're talking about. Laurana -- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ |Just another lemming... | Yet another Amiga maniac set loose | | | on the world...and you thought things| |lmbailey@vela.acs.oakland.edu | couldn't get any worse. |
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (06/16/91)
lmbailey@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Laurana Bailey) writes: >In article <arctngnt.6816@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: >| >| Again, this is the reason why CD-I will beat out CDTV in the home-based >| multimedia race.. CD-I is supported, CDTV is not. > >It IS? Show me a CD-I machine and the software for it. I don't see any >at my local Sears or Montgomery Wards. I have yet, in fact, seen ANY >CD-I machine outside of prototypes at trade shows. Uh. Most people haven't seen CDTV units in THEIR local stores, either :-) National CDTV availability isn't scheduled until what? September? Might be happenstance, but that could be a clever way of catching the fallout from CD-I advertising and coverage around that time. >Where do you think a lot of the early CDTV software has come from? It >was from CD-I developers who have as of yet to make any money on their >efforts. Okay, I'll bite. Got some disc title names? They both have Groliers, I think. Anything else? Side issue: I noticed that most of the CDTV titles are $50 or more, retail. Anyone know what street prices are like? Thanks! > Phillips has been promising CD-I for the last 6 years. SIX >YEARS. Almost as long as the Amiga has been on the market. Not quite. CD-I consumer intro was originally scheduled for late 1988. However, yes, it's rather interesting that CD-I graphics modes are still incredibly nicer... all these years later. kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
lmbailey@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Laurana Bailey) (06/17/91)
In article <1991Jun16.054007.10198@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: | lmbailey@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Laurana Bailey) writes: | >In article <arctngnt.6816@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: | >| | >| Again, this is the reason why CD-I will beat out CDTV in the home-based | >| multimedia race.. CD-I is supported, CDTV is not. | > | >It IS? Show me a CD-I machine and the software for it. I don't see any | >at my local Sears or Montgomery Wards. I have yet, in fact, seen ANY | >CD-I machine outside of prototypes at trade shows. | | Uh. Most people haven't seen CDTV units in THEIR local stores, either :-) Here in the Detroit area we have some around. I've played with one at my local Amiga dealer and he's even sold a few. | | National CDTV availability isn't scheduled until what? September? | Might be happenstance, but that could be a clever way of catching the | fallout from CD-I advertising and coverage around that time. Perhaps. If it works and increases sales, then good for them. | | >Where do you think a lot of the early CDTV software has come from? It | >was from CD-I developers who have as of yet to make any money on their | >efforts. | | Okay, I'll bite. Got some disc title names? They both have Groliers, | I think. Anything else? Groliers is one that comes to mind. The issue being, it is OUT for CDTV and can be purchased, even if it is geographical availability is limited, it is still available in parts of the country which is more than CD-I can claim at this time. | | Side issue: I noticed that most of the CDTV titles are $50 or more, retail. | Anyone know what street prices are like? Thanks! Depends on the store. Pricing from some has been knocked down $10 or so around here. | | > Phillips has been promising CD-I for the last 6 years. SIX | >YEARS. Almost as long as the Amiga has been on the market. | | Not quite. CD-I consumer intro was originally scheduled for late 1988. Phillips has been at it for quite sometime and there were manufacturers promising CD-I "real soon now" way back when. | | However, yes, it's rather interesting that CD-I graphics modes are | still incredibly nicer... all these years later. | | kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> Perhaps thats due to the fact that they've probably only just started adding the graphics aspects in seeing as it's not even available anywhere yet. I am not saying it doesn't have it's advantages, but it's biggest disadvantage is that it isn't available now and CDTV is. Laurana -- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ |Just another lemming... | Yet another Amiga maniac set loose | | | on the world...and you thought things| |lmbailey@vela.acs.oakland.edu | couldn't get any worse. |
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) (06/18/91)
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >Uh. Most people haven't seen CDTV units in THEIR local stores, either :-) > >National CDTV availability isn't scheduled until what? September? >Might be happenstance, but that could be a clever way of catching the >fallout from CD-I advertising and coverage around that time. Interesting, I got a mailing from Slipped Disk, Madison Heights, MI, saying: CDTV HAS ARRIVED! Come in today for a free demostration. Hum, and I am number 2,800 or so on their mailing list, so there are at least 3000 people in Detroit that have been mailed this thing...Talking to someone associated with them, they said they never heard of the hush-hush crap people keep talking about on the net...They even got the CDTV box in the front window... But then again, the only time I I saw the CDTV there, it was playing some headbanging CD+G's...And the way they had it set up, the CD didn't sound to good on the 1084 monitor... Don't get me wrong, I don't have a bad impression of the CDTV, I plan on getting one as soon as the price dropps. It will the 3rd Commodore unit in use in this house...I have never been impressed with Maganivox's products, and when you think of games, I think of that Odyssey thingie...I need something that plays good games here, I have not bought many games for the A2000, but it seems that I have had problems with some games not working with one floppy drive and then haggling to get my money back(Necular War if your wondering which game)...A game machine would be the ultimate solution...Plus the A2000 is in the other room and mostly hogged by my sister. A CDTV and a floppy drive sounds like a good solution...I just got to get somemore information on it, like where it is assembled, content, etc... Too bad they have a green(blue?) floursent display, all my RCA equipment has orange, and I find it easier to sleep with the orange, its not as bright at night...I noticed the A3000 green LED is also VERY BRIGHT AT NIGHT...It is VERY VERY bothersome...WHO is responciable for what colors they decide to use??? I would have perfered Orange there as well...Its not as bright at night....Don't they have people at Commodore that do this kind of research? One half of the decision to buy an RCA VCR was the orange display...I never realized the A3000 was such a bright green until the first night... Now that there are finally game machines comming out with serial ports(CDTV), will there be online services JUST to play multi-player games on?? Anyone hear of anything like this? Or is it just too early to speculate? -- C-UseNet V0.42e Ronald Kushner Life in Hell BBS +1 (313) 939-6666 P.O. Box 353 14400 USR HST V.42 & V.42bis Sterling Heights, MI 48311-0353 Complete Amiga Support UUCP: uunet!umich!vela!sycom!rkushner (We are not satanic, just NUTS!) DISCLAIMER: I say what I mean, and mean what I say.
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (06/18/91)
>In article <arctngnt.6816@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowi >e J Poag) writes: >| >| Again, this is the reason why CD-I will beat out CDTV in the home-based >| multimedia race.. CD-I is supported, CDTV is not. > >It IS? Show me a CD-I machine and the software for it. I don't see any >at my local Sears or Montgomery Wards. I have yet, in fact, seen ANY >CD-I machine outside of prototypes at trade shows. > >Where do you think a lot of the early CDTV software has come from? It >was from CD-I developers who have as of yet to make any money on their >efforts. CDTV provided them a means to finally make some money on >their work. Phillips has been promising CD-I for the last 6 years. SIX >YEARS. Almost as long as the Amiga has been on the market. Show me a >single CD-I unit I can go down to my store and buy and I'll take your >point in stride. Otherwise it's quite obvious you don't know what the >bloody hell you're talking about. > >Laurana > >-- >/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ >|Just another lemming... | Yet another Amiga maniac set loose | >| | on the world...and you thought things| >|lmbailey@vela.acs.oakland.edu | couldn't get any worse. | Laurana: Im going to take your name down, and contact you in a year, then you can epxlain to ME why CDTV failed, why Commodore was completely sluggish in advertising it, why CD-I is supported by >4< companies, and CDTV, oh a whopping >1< company that even still is on the edge of going bankrupt if they continue to avoid marketing. You dont set up a lemonade stand, and expect business without putting up a few signs in the neighborhood. And for you, it seems, youre caught up in the hysteria. You think CDTV is impressive. So do I. BUT, the fact remains, that CD-I will come out ontop, because Commodore has tooooooo many flaws in their marketing strategy. It will die, and die quick. Id like to think in my mind that CDTV will be a huge success. Stop dreaming, it wont happen. Can also look at it this way...CD-I is getting MORE publicity of a product that dosent exist, meanwhile, dinky Commodore with their Dinky marketing campaign expects to kill off a giant like Phillips, Sony, ect. Think again. LOGIC, my friend.. LOGIC. It just WONT WORK. What makes you think that Commodore will push CDTV >>>MORE<<< than its pushing the Amiga? Hell, I havent seen an ad for the Amiga in over 6 months, and at that, it was some stupid Wally's Business Week newspaper. Explain to me why Commodore has had more PR companies come and go, much less PRESIDENTS OF THE COMPANY run through the famous "revolving door of Commodore Business Machines, Inc." as Forbes magazine so eloquently put it. Oh-boy, remember 2 years ago? Everyone was expecting some huge change in COmmdore when they announced a $15,000,000 advertising campaign to start on the night of the World Series, and stretch until Christmas. Well gee, what did we see... The night of the World Series, California about fell into the ocean. There goes the premier ad......So what did we see after that? Some sniveler named "Stevie" playing of all things, GAMES....REAFFIRMING THE PUBLICS BELIEF THAT THE AMIGA IS A GAME MACHINE...Gee, lucky us. That about pushed the progress of the Amiga back about 4 years. I expected something wonderful. Not a prepubescent weenie plucking a keyboard in the middle of a slight simulator. Duh. The advertising campaign of 2 years ago, in my eyes, did more harm than good. Its like jumping off a diving board, and landing face first.. you wont go near it, until you gather up enough courage to do it again.. You get back up Ln the board, and kill yourself on the next try. Youre not going to see advertising out of CBM anytime soon. Hell, I see more ads from car dealerships on TV >IN ONE DAY< than ive seen out of CBM in the past 4 years. Think on THAT.. Then tell me who has their head in the clouds. \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Flicker turns me on. -BJP | Get back into the SeX PiSToLs if you program in Arctangent, Naperville IL. | C. It helps. // ---------------------------- \X/ A M I G A ! \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
thomas@capitol.capitol.com (Mark Thomas) (06/18/91)
[ Hope I got the names right ] > | >In article <arctngnt.6816@amiganet.chi.il.us> > | >arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: > | >Where do you think a lot of the early CDTV software has come from? It > | >was from CD-I developers who have as of yet to make any money on their > | >efforts. > | > | In article <1991Jun16.054007.10198@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: > | > | Okay, I'll bite. Got some disc title names? They both have Groliers, > | I think. Anything else? Other than Groliers, almost no one doing CD-I is doing CDTV. We certainly aren't. Neither is AIM, Fathom Pictures, Spinnaker Software, or the the people in Florida whose names I can't remember. Some titles that will be out this fall for CD-I, there are more, but we're not doing them:-) Children's Musical Theater Sesame Street Numbers Sesame Street Letters Treasures of the Smithsonian Time/Life Photography Rand-McNally US Atlas Stamps: Windows on the World > | Side issue: I noticed that most of the CDTV titles are $50 or more, retail. > | Anyone know what street prices are like? Thanks! > > lmbailey@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Laurana Bailey) writes: > Depends on the store. Pricing from some has been knocked down $10 or > so around here. CD-I titles are supposed to retail in the $15-$50 range. > Phillips has been at it for quite sometime and there were > manufacturers promising CD-I "real soon now" way back when. If you really want an CD-I player we'll sell you one. Really. The industrial version has been in use for several months now. > I am not saying it doesn't have it's advantages, but it's biggest > disadvantage is that it isn't available now and CDTV is. As I have said before, only time will tell.... -- Mark A. Thomas Capitol Disc Interactive 202-625-0187/202-965-7800 2121 Wisconsin Ave. NW I speak for myself only Washington, D.C. 20007 Best: thomas@capitol.com OK: uunet!capitol!thomas -- Mark A. Thomas Capitol Disc Interactive 202-625-0187/202-965-7800 2121 Wisconsin Ave. NW I speak for myself only Washington, D.C. 20007 Best: thomas@capitol.com OK: uunet!capitol!thomas
ronald@ecl014.UUCP (Ronald van Eijck) (06/19/91)
In article <1991Jun16.054007.10198@ncsu.edu> kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >Not quite. CD-I consumer intro was originally scheduled for late 1988. > >However, yes, it's rather interesting that CD-I graphics modes are >still incredibly nicer... all these years later. > >kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> Thats the easy part. If I say I will ship a A7000 laptop, 4096x4096*32 8 playfields 4GIG of memory 4 68050's etc. etc. end 1991 you can say the same about this machine in 1994. So making the specs is easy shipping the thing for a nice price is the hard part. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Ronald van Eijck {eunet!}hp4nl!cbmnlux!ecl014!ronald | | | | We do the impossible at once for a miracle we need a little more time | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
rjc@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) (06/19/91)
In article <arctngnt.7786@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: [ranting and raving deleted] >Youre not going to see advertising out of CBM anytime soon. Hell, I see more >ads from car dealerships on TV >IN ONE DAY< than ive seen out of CBM in the >past 4 years. Think on THAT.. >Then tell me who has their head in the clouds. > >\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ >Flicker turns me on. -BJP | Get back into the SeX PiSToLs if you program in >Arctangent, Naperville IL. | C. It helps. // >---------------------------- \X/ A M I G A ! >\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Can it be? ArcTANGENT is actually worse than MB! My greatest fears have been realized, I will now go die a slow death. -- / INET:rjc@gnu.ai.mit.edu * // The opinions expressed here do not \ | INET:r_cromwe@upr2.clu.net | \X/ in any way reflect the views of my self.| \ UUCP:uunet!tnc!m0023 * /
leeg@mcrware.UUCP (Lee Glenn) (06/19/91)
In article <7284@vela.acs.oakland.edu> lmbailey@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Laurana Bailey) writes: > >It IS? Show me a CD-I machine and the software for it. I don't see any >at my local Sears or Montgomery Wards. I have yet, in fact, seen ANY >CD-I machine outside of prototypes at trade shows. > >[Lots of stuff deleted] > >Laurana > I was wondering what deals have been made with Commodore regarding CDTV. Has there been ANY major consumer electronics firm (Sony, Panasonic, Emerson, etc) expressing a "put your money where your mouth is" interest in CDTV? All I hear is "Time will tell". Lee Glenn - My opinions are better than a slap in the face with a dead cat. Microware Systems Corp. (515) 224-1929 1900 NW 114th St., Des Moines, IA 50325 (UUCP: ...!uunet!mcrware!leeg) (Internet: leeg@mcrware.com) -- Lee Glenn - My opinions are better than a slap in the face with a dead cat. Microware Systems Corp. (515) 224-1929 1900 NW 114th St., Des Moines, IA 50325 (UUCP: ...!uunet!mcrware!leeg) (Internet: leeg@mcrware.com)
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/19/91)
In article <arctngnt.7786@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: > >Laurana: Im going to take your name down, and contact you in a year, then you >can epxlain to ME why CDTV failed, why Commodore was completely sluggish in >advertising it, why CD-I is supported by >4< companies, and CDTV, oh a >whopping >1< company that even still is on the edge of going bankrupt if they >continue to avoid marketing. > Until now, I just put you in the category of people who find a problem at Commodore and overdramaticize it. There is Marc Barrett who overdramaticizes how bad the Amiga graphics and R&D situation is (I'm hardly saying they are ideal). Then there was you who was nailing CDTV cause of marketing. Fine. BUT. Commodore is NOT on the edge of going bankrupt. They are, in fact, doing quite well for themselves "Thank You Very Much (tm)". They are now profitable every quarter, not just two of them. Their sales last Christmas made that quarter the third best in their history (earnings were also high: tripled from the prior year). Commodore is in VERY sound fiscal shape. The A500 is the best selling computer in Britain and I believe also in Germany (perhaps the PS/2 55 is bigger, I seem to remember hearing). So please, let's not bring this to a "Commodore is close to bankruptcy" discussion. You are entitled to your opinions about Commodore's ability to market and sell CDTV. I think I'll just wait and see. I'm tired of trying to guess what CBM will do next. 8-) -- Ethan "...Know-Nothing-Bozo the Non-Wonder Dog, an animal so stupid that it had been sacked from one of Will's own commercials for being incapable of knowing which dog food it was supposed to prefer, despite the fact that the meat in all the other bowls had engine oil poured all over it."
leeg@mcrware.UUCP (Lee Glenn) (06/20/91)
In article <arctngnt.7786@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: > > >Laurana: Im going to take your name down, and contact you in a year, then you >can epxlain to ME why CDTV failed, why Commodore was completely sluggish in >advertising it, why CD-I is supported by >4< companies, and CDTV, oh a >whopping >1< company that even still is on the edge of going bankrupt if they >continue to avoid marketing. > > [lots of good stuff deleted] > >Then tell me who has their head in the clouds. > >Flicker turns me on. -BJP | Get back into the SeX PiSToLs if you program in >Arctangent, Naperville IL. | C. It helps. // >---------------------------- \X/ A M I G A ! I've got to agree with you. Although I may have a <slight> bias toward CD-I, (Microware developed CD-RTOS) I've been an Amigan for several years. Commodore took 11 months to send me AmigaVision which was supposed to have been shipped along with my 3000. I'm told that some customer database got screwed up or something. My point is: THIS is the kind of support that will compete with these consumer electronics giants? I hardly believe that things have changed since the introduction of CDTV. Comments? -- Lee Glenn - My opinions are better than a slap in the face with a dead cat. Microware Systems Corp. (515) 224-1929 1900 NW 114th St., Des Moines, IA 50325 (UUCP: ...!uunet!mcrware!leeg) (Internet: leeg@mcrware.com)
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) (06/20/91)
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: >>In article <arctngnt.6816@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bo >>e J Poag) writes: >>| >>| Again, this is the reason why CD-I will beat out CDTV in the home-based >>| multimedia race.. CD-I is supported, CDTV is not. >> >>It IS? Show me a CD-I machine and the software for it. I don't see any >>at my local Sears or Montgomery Wards. I have yet, in fact, seen ANY >>CD-I machine outside of prototypes at trade shows. >> >>Where do you think a lot of the early CDTV software has come from? It >>was from CD-I developers who have as of yet to make any money on their >>efforts. CDTV provided them a means to finally make some money on >>their work. Phillips has been promising CD-I for the last 6 years. SIX >>YEARS. Almost as long as the Amiga has been on the market. Show me a >>single CD-I unit I can go down to my store and buy and I'll take your >>point in stride. Otherwise it's quite obvious you don't know what the >>bloody hell you're talking about. >> >>Laurana >> > >Laurana: Im going to take your name down, and contact you in a year, then you >can epxlain to ME why CDTV failed, why Commodore was completely sluggish in >advertising it, why CD-I is supported by >4< companies, and CDTV, oh a >whopping >1< company that even still is on the edge of going bankrupt if they >continue to avoid marketing. > What COMMODORE NEEDS is to get ahold of DONER W B & Company and come up with some slick ads, with cool twists on them...I know DONER is responciable for alot of those really slick local ads that have made little shit companys like Highland Appliance that sells shit products become a very large shit company that sells shit products...It was all in the ads...Sure blew away the rest who were trying to give you $5 worth of coffie if they couldn't beat your best deal... We need to convince Commodore to find those guys who made those Nissan commericals, you know the ones, "BOB's HIGHWAY", "THE ROAD BELONGS TO ME", "IF I HAD A SPORTS CAR WITH SUPPER DUPPER STEERING" or whatever it goes, those are very well done commericals that really impress me... I mean, Nissan is a total shit company as well, seeing how many disgruntled owners they have in CU, but they got slick, cool ads... It might cost big bucks to get these guys, and $3 million a month in ads to get the word out, but they HAVE to do this for CDTV to be successful...Offer that Video Game tradeup deal ($100 off) they did in 1983 or so with the C64!! Blitz Blitz Blitz!! Get the sucker in Sears, right down Electric Avenue(Or is it brand central?) They also should have a crop of super slick ads for the Amigas done as well, I mean, not the ones where "Jr is going to be an ignorant ass because he plays niptendio all day and likes hot dogs..." Apple advertises BUSINESS MACHINES that are easy to use, MARKET THE AMIGA as a home PC that EASY and FUN to use...And keep that slim fast pig off out of the commericals!!! Its kinda late to get into business via a business route, how about a home route where the people talk about them, and miss 'em at work!? The it would be totally the opposite reason people buy IBM compatibles for home.. Now how would the CBTV be advertised? -- C-UseNet V0.42e Ronald Kushner Life in Hell BBS +1 (313) 939-6666 P.O. Box 353 14400 USR HST V.42 & V.42bis Sterling Heights, MI 48311-0353 Complete Amiga Support UUCP: uunet!umich!vela!sycom!rkushner (We are not satanic, just NUTS!) I KNOW, I LISTEN TO MARK SCOTT
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) (06/20/91)
thomas@capitol.capitol.com (Mark Thomas) writes: >Other than Groliers, almost no one doing CD-I is doing CDTV. We certainly >aren't. Neither is AIM, Fathom Pictures, Spinnaker Software, or the the >people in Florida whose names I can't remember. Some titles that will be out t >fall for CD-I, there are more, but we're not doing them:-) > >Children's Musical Theater >Sesame Street Numbers >Sesame Street Letters >Treasures of the Smithsonian >Time/Life Photography >Rand-McNally US Atlas >Stamps: Windows on the World Sounds like an onslaught on the kiddie/educational market...Not something I would want personally...This might make parents look towards a few good books than a $1000 machine...especially since it isn't being marketed as a computer... HUMMM...The plot thickens! -- C-UseNet V0.42e Ronald Kushner Life in Hell BBS +1 (313) 939-6666 P.O. Box 353 14400 USR HST V.42 & V.42bis Sterling Heights, MI 48311-0353 Complete Amiga Support UUCP: uunet!umich!vela!sycom!rkushner (We are not satanic, just NUTS!) I KNOW, I LISTEN TO MARK SCOTT
jtravis@dworkin.Amber.mccc.edu (Jim, Sysop) (06/20/91)
And I'm taking down your name to write you in a month or two after
the "good news" strikes. You may have a surprise on your hands...
I'm always amazed by the number of people who:
1. Know technology better than the hardware designer
2. Know software better that the programmer
3. Know marketing better than people in the business
And still manage to get a "C" in their major..how much
excellence, how little time...kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (06/20/91)
>>Not quite. CD-I consumer intro was originally scheduled for late 1988. >> >>However, yes, it's rather interesting that CD-I graphics modes are >>still incredibly nicer... all these years later. >> >Thats the easy part. > >If I say I will ship a A7000 laptop, 4096x4096*32 8 playfields 4GIG of memory >4 68050's etc. etc. end 1991 you can say the same about this machine in 1994. >So making the specs is easy shipping the thing for a nice price is the hard >part. A very good point... in general. However, not wholly applicable in this case. The first CD-I player was demonstrated in 1988. And a friend of mine built a cheap but nice gfx board in early 1989 which used the main CD-I video chip. (it's available off the shelf, btw... something like $15 to $25). Plus, CD-I players have been in use industrially for way over a year. Let me put it a different way: Even that long ago it was obvious to CD-I types (at least) that capabilities far beyond the best gfx cheaply available at the time, could and should be designed and used for a 1990's player. cheers - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/20/91)
In article <6981@mcrware.UUCP> leeg@mcrware.UUCP (Lee Glenn) writes: > >I've got to agree with you. Although I may have a <slight> bias toward >CD-I, (Microware developed CD-RTOS) I've been an Amigan for several years. >Commodore took 11 months to send me AmigaVision which was supposed to have >been shipped along with my 3000. I'm told that some customer database got >screwed up or something. >My point is: THIS is the kind of support that will compete with these >consumer electronics giants? > What kind of SUPPORT to companies like Panasonic and Matsushita give? The only thing I've ever gotten from one of those sort of companies is a number for my local repair center. Commodore does better. Commodore gives you the number which will get a FedEx guy over to your place. (BTW, I don't know that CDTV gets the FedEx service too) -- Ethan "...Know-Nothing-Bozo the Non-Wonder Dog, an animal so stupid that it had been sacked from one of Will's own commercials for being incapable of knowing which dog food it was supposed to prefer, despite the fact that the meat in all the other bowls had engine oil poured all over it."
jonabbey@cs.utexas.edu (Jonathan David Abbey) (06/21/91)
thomas@capitol.capitol.com (Mark Thomas) writes: | Other than Groliers, almost no one doing CD-I is doing CDTV. We certainly | aren't. Neither is AIM, Fathom Pictures, Spinnaker Software, or the the | people in Florida whose names I can't remember. Now, how many of those companies that are doing CD-I exclusively have recieved financial support from Phillips? How many are partially owned by Phillips? To be fair, I wouldn't expect a lot of companies who are doing their discs through CDTV publishing to be doing CD-I ports either.. Marketing will be key, you see.. CDTV is competent enough to do the job if the software and marketing is there. If people start associating 'CDTV' with those nifty computer-CD things that have all the really cool educational programs available, the fact that CD-I can show many more colors may not be as significant. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan David Abbey \ "Dudez! Gimme a quarter!" - Aldo Cella the university of texas at austin \ - Dedicated to the Cygnian in all of us. computer science/math?/psychology? \ jonabbey@cs.utexas.edu
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) (06/21/91)
leeg@mcrware.UUCP (Lee Glenn) writes: >I've got to agree with you. Although I may have a <slight> bias toward >CD-I, (Microware developed CD-RTOS) I've been an Amigan for several years. >Commodore took 11 months to send me AmigaVision which was supposed to have >been shipped along with my 3000. I'm told that some customer database got >screwed up or something. >My point is: THIS is the kind of support that will compete with these >consumer electronics giants? > >I hardly believe that things have changed since the introduction of CDTV. > >Comments? Didn't Commodore bring in Nolan Bushnell and set him up with an interactive-products division of the company?? Or am I putting things in between the lines? -- C-UseNet V0.42e Ronald Kushner Life in Hell BBS +1 (313) 939-6666 P.O. Box 353 14400 USR HST V.42 & V.42bis Sterling Heights, MI 48311-0353 Complete Amiga Support UUCP: uunet!umich!vela!sycom!rkushner (We are not satanic, just NUTS!) Hey Hey! Ho Ho! All the statist gotta go!!
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) (06/21/91)
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >In article <6981@mcrware.UUCP> leeg@mcrware.UUCP (Lee Glenn) writes: >> >>I've got to agree with you. Although I may have a <slight> bias toward >>CD-I, (Microware developed CD-RTOS) I've been an Amigan for several years. >>Commodore took 11 months to send me AmigaVision which was supposed to have >>been shipped along with my 3000. I'm told that some customer database got >>screwed up or something. >>My point is: THIS is the kind of support that will compete with these >>consumer electronics giants? >> > What kind of SUPPORT to companies like Panasonic and >Matsushita give? The only thing I've ever gotten from one of >those sort of companies is a number for my local repair center. >Commodore does better. Commodore gives you the number which will >get a FedEx guy over to your place. > (BTW, I don't know that CDTV gets the FedEx service too) > -- Ethan Yeah, the only think I can think of Matsushita doing is dumping the product in the United States. This IS the scary part..And CD-I developers will definatly not complain about it, because that means more cheap CD-I players in the stores...Does Commodore have the courage to file a dumping charge IF it ever happens? -- C-UseNet V0.42e Ronald Kushner Life in Hell BBS +1 (313) 939-6666 P.O. Box 353 14400 USR HST V.42 & V.42bis Sterling Heights, MI 48311-0353 Complete Amiga Support UUCP: uunet!umich!vela!sycom!rkushner (We are not satanic, just NUTS!) Hey Hey! Ho Ho! All the statist gotta go!!
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (06/21/91)
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) writes: >> [out this] fall for CD-I, there are more, but we're not doing them:-) >> >>Children's Musical Theater >>Sesame Street Numbers >>Sesame Street Letters >>Treasures of the Smithsonian >>Time/Life Photography >>Rand-McNally US Atlas >>Stamps: Windows on the World > >Sounds like an onslaught on the kiddie/educational market...Not something I >would want personally...This might make parents look towards a few good books >than a $1000 machine...especially since it isn't being marketed as a >computer... Those are titles from just one company... you would expect some emphasis on whatever they know/like best (if I'm not totally incorrect, this outfit's parent company is into video production... like Sesame Street and so on). However, you did bring up something not asked often enough: just what kind of titles are _you_ interested in? cheers - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (06/21/91)
thomas@capitol.capitol.com (Mark Thomas) writes: > Other than Groliers, almost no one doing CD-I is doing CDTV. We certainly > aren't. Neither is AIM, Fathom Pictures, Spinnaker Software, or the the > people in Florida whose names I can't remember. (?) Actually, I don't think Groliers was from a CD-I type either. At least he didn't seem to be. Groliers was already on Mac CDROM, I believe, which indicates that the CDTV port was more likely done by a Mac/PC CDROM house (like some of the other CDTV titles were). Correct me if wrong, of course. I've certainly not done an exhaustive survey, but I've not run across any CD-I developers who plan to do CDTV titles. On the other hand, I've found a half-dozen CDTV authors who say they plan to look into CD-I. In their own words: "It'll be where the money is at". > Some titles that will be out this fall for CD-I, there are more, > but we're not doing them:-) [are...] > [list deleted] You also left out future titles :-) For example, I just read this news item the other day: "Philips Consumer Electronics has announced College Search, a CD-I designed to help high school students choose a college or university. The title is being developed jointly by American College Testing and Capitol Disc Interactive. The disc will contain comprehensive multimedia information about 1,800 four-year colleges and universities." Capitol Disc - y'all, right? If so, _please_ be sure to include what the women are like on each campus! :-) :-) kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu> PS: which brings up another Q. Hot sex did more to sell VCRs at first than anything else. Anyone know of planned CDTV/CD-I interactive sex discs??
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) (06/21/91)
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes: >rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) writes: >>> [out this] fall for CD-I, there are more, but we're not doing them:-) >>> >>>Children's Musical Theater >>>Sesame Street Numbers >>>Sesame Street Letters >>>Treasures of the Smithsonian >>>Time/Life Photography >>>Rand-McNally US Atlas >>>Stamps: Windows on the World >> >>Sounds like an onslaught on the kiddie/educational market...Not something I >>would want personally...This might make parents look towards a few good books >>than a $1000 machine...especially since it isn't being marketed as a >>computer... > >Those are titles from just one company... you would expect some emphasis >on whatever they know/like best (if I'm not totally incorrect, this outfit's >parent company is into video production... like Sesame Street and so on). > >However, you did bring up something not asked often enough: just what >kind of titles are _you_ interested in? > Hum, how about a video magazine on disc?? Something like Popular Science or something...I know mastering times probably make this unrealistic, and advertising is a concern...Or maybe MANY monthly magazines on a single disk, which would be much more cost efficient for the user and the companies involved...but we won't see this for quite awhile, I am sure... Plus you need the blazemonger games...And the US Atlas sounds cool...And ANY kind of sports stats discs, I mean, going way back, where I could look up ANYTHING I wanted....Trivia type games would really be popular I would imagine with the capacity of these units!! How about baseball card type discs, where they got profiles of the years baseball players with the years rock music on it??? Or maybe a small audio blurb from each player?? And all their stats!! The best thing I can think of is stats disks, and where companies like Chrysler or Commodore could send out the stockholders reports on disc.... Wouldn't that be something! Not only can you show them pretty pictures, but put Bob Lutz or James Dionne's voices on the disc, talking and talking, about how they are in the tank or rolling over the market...Maybe that one isn't so good... A travel disc, where you can go and look up every major city in the world and see what they have to offer...I can see L.A. now, "Where the ground is brown, the air is brown, and the water is brown"...How about Detroit, "Where the weak are killed and eaten!"...Or Cleveland, "The mistake on the lake"... Junk Mail CD-ROM mailings!!!! it not only is an super duper clothes pin, it doubles as an door jam...How much would you pay now? Don't answer yet!! We'll throw in a free plastic gravemarker if you use the order code AFDDG! THE PHONE BOOK ON CD-ROM! Imagine all the TREE's they will save!!! ;-) Not only can you go alphabetically, but you can look up by phone number!! And of course, I would like to see educational disks, such as them "Do it yourself" books...Maybe I am thinking too big right now, but if this is marketed right by either Commodore or the CD-I gang, you may see some revolutionary products...I really think the baseball card type stuff put on disc would really be popular with adults...if done right... The wheels in my head keep turning and turning.... -- C-UseNet V0.42e Ronald Kushner Life in Hell BBS +1 (313) 939-6666 P.O. Box 353 14400 USR HST V.42 & V.42bis Sterling Heights, MI 48311-0353 Complete Amiga Support UUCP: uunet!umich!vela!sycom!rkushner (We are not satanic, just NUTS!) No blood for oil! Raising C.A.F.E. to 40MPG is just that!
leeg@mcrware.UUCP (Lee Glenn) (06/21/91)
In article <1991Jun20.104313.25193@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > > What kind of SUPPORT to companies like Panasonic and >Matsushita give? The only thing I've ever gotten from one of >those sort of companies is a number for my local repair center. >Commodore does better. Commodore gives you the number which will >get a FedEx guy over to your place. > (BTW, I don't know that CDTV gets the FedEx service too) > -- Ethan > Well, gee, I guess I'll stick my neck out and say that when you buy from Panasonic, you'll get EVERYTHING that you paid for at the time of purchase. And, if for some reason something was left out of the box, I don't think that you'll have to wait 11 months for it. My problem in getting AmigaVision is not an isolated case. There are people who STILL haven't gotten it. It really made me sick to go to my favorite Amiga store and see it sitting on the shelves, but Commodore kept insisting that I'll have it in 'two weeks'. I could have bought the damn thing with the money I spent in phone calls, faxes, etc. Did you buy a CDTV unit? Did you get everything you were supposed to get? -- Lee Glenn - My opinions are better than a slap in the face with a dead cat. Microware Systems Corp. (515) 224-1929 1900 NW 114th St., Des Moines, IA 50325 (UUCP: ...!uunet!mcrware!leeg) (Internet: leeg@mcrware.com)
kdarling@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) (06/22/91)
rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) writes: > Hum, how about a video magazine on disc?? Something like Popular Science or Agreed! I've said many times that something like PS or National Geographic would be great with a disc addendum. With more and more magazine authoring being done on computers, it may not be that hard to make a monthly disc soon. > Trivia type games would really be popular I would imagine > with the capacity of these units!! Terrific idea! > How about baseball card type discs, where they got profiles of the years > baseball players with the years rock music on it??? Or maybe a small audio > blurb from each player?? And all their stats!! Usually I hate the idea of stats on discs (especially ones which are to be accessed using only a joystick!)... but a baseball card disc sounds like the exception to prove the rule. Click on a team, timeline, etc. Love it! > Chrysler or Commodore could send out the stockholders reports on disc.... > Wouldn't that be something! Not only can you show them pretty pictures, but > put Bob Lutz or James Dionne's voices on the disc, talking and talking, about > how they are in the tank or rolling over the market...Maybe that one isn't so > good... GRIN. Yah, and think of the possibilities of a disgruntled programmer slipping in an "interesting" sideshow onto the disc. > A travel disc, where you can go and look up every major city in the world Yes. I think armchair traveling will be a big market. > THE PHONE BOOK ON CD-ROM! Imagine all the TREE's they will save!!! ;-) Mildy disagree here... a mini phone/terminal would be better. And again, remember the joystick controller might make a paper directory look easier :-). > And of course, I would like to see educational disks, such as them "Do it > yourself" books... That Time-Life Photography disc mentioned, is akin to that. It's supposed to let you set up your shot and settings, "snap" a picture and then right away view what the "developed" film would be like. BTW, the Army was working on a CD-I disc a few years back, with complete info on battlefield wounds... so that a MASH-type surgeon could immediately look up and view the correct procedures on his field player. All great ideas! But I still think someone is going to make a _killing_ by having monthly Playboy/girl interactive discs... <grin>. best - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/22/91)
In article <7006@mcrware.UUCP> leeg@mcrware.UUCP (Lee Glenn) writes: > >Well, gee, I guess I'll stick my neck out and say that when you buy from >Panasonic, you'll get EVERYTHING that you paid for at the time of purchase. >And, if for some reason something was left out of the box, I don't think >that you'll have to wait 11 months for it. > The point of my asking "What service does Panasonic" give you was that someone was predicting CDTV's doom based upon all these Japanese companies with their great service and then there is Commodore. My point was, simply, that they don't provide ANY service. If something is missing you'll have to deal with the place you bought it from, and as we all know dealers come in varying qualities. >My problem in getting AmigaVision is not an isolated case. There are >people who STILL haven't gotten it. It really made me sick to go to my >favorite Amiga store and see it sitting on the shelves, but Commodore >kept insisting that I'll have it in 'two weeks'. I could have bought >the damn thing with the money I spent in phone calls, faxes, etc. > First off, you now get AmigaVision BUNDLED with your Amiga. You no longer have to wait for Commodore to ship it to you. That idea was probably a mistake on their part. It obviously didn't work right. But it sounds like you got screwed worse than most. >Did you buy a CDTV unit? Did you get everything you were supposed to get? > Considering that Commodore is currently shipping on the order of 800K-900K Amigas every year, not to mention C=64s and PC clones, I would somehow doubt that Commodore regularly leaves things out. And no, I didn't buy CDTV. -- Ethan "...Know-Nothing-Bozo the Non-Wonder Dog, an animal so stupid that it had been sacked from one of Will's own commercials for being incapable of knowing which dog food it was supposed to prefer, despite the fact that the meat in all the other bowls had engine oil poured all over it."
leeg@mcrware.UUCP (Lee Glenn) (06/24/91)
In article <rkushner.0353@sycom.UUCP> rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) writes: > >Didn't Commodore bring in Nolan Bushnell and set him up with an >interactive-products division of the company?? > > Ronald Kushner Yes, they did. Now, let's see how long he lasts before Irving fires him. -- Lee Glenn - My opinions are better than a slap in the face with a dead cat. Microware Systems Corp. (515) 224-1929 1900 NW 114th St., Des Moines, IA 50325 (UUCP: ...!uunet!mcrware!leeg) (Internet: leeg@mcrware.com)
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/25/91)
In article <7038@mcrware.UUCP> leeg@mcrware.UUCP (Lee Glenn) writes: >In article <rkushner.0353@sycom.UUCP> rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) writes: >> >>Didn't Commodore bring in Nolan Bushnell and set him up with an >>interactive-products division of the company?? >> >> Ronald Kushner > >Yes, they did. Now, let's see how long he lasts before Irving fires him. > I must admit, I am very surprised. I expected Harry Copperman, with the move, to be fired come May, when his clause in the contract that gave him lots of money for being expired. However (unless I've missed it) he's still with Commodore. Pleasantly surprised. -- Ethan FF buckets of bits on the bus, FF buckets of bits. Take one down, Pass it to ground, FE buckets of bits on the bus.
zuckerma@aludra.usc.edu (David Zuckerman) (06/25/91)
In article <1991Jun24.231424.4423@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > I must admit, I am very surprised. I expected Harry >Copperman, with the move, to be fired come May, when his clause in >the contract that gave him lots of money for being expired. >However (unless I've missed it) he's still with Commodore. >Pleasantly surprised. Yes, he's still with Commodore. I believe he was bumped up to Commodore International, and is now somewhere in the multimedia department. This brings up an interesting point. Within recent history, is Copperman the only CBM head that actually STAYED with the company after leaving that post? Come to think of it, can anyone come up with a list of previous CBM chiefs within the last 10 years? I can't remember many of them... besides Dionne and Copperman, Max Toy comes to mind... > -- Ethan > >FF buckets of bits on the bus, FF buckets of bits. >Take one down, Pass it to ground, >FE buckets of bits on the bus. -Dave -- David Zuckerman | "There's nothing wrong with my sense | Exercise // zuckerma@aludra.usc.edu | of reality. I have it thoroughly | good \\ // Univ of Southern CA | serviced every fortnight." | taste...\X/ Floyd the Droid Fan Club | - Zaphod Beeblebrox | Go Amiga...
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (06/26/91)
Agreed.. I had always thought that this would be a good idea for an ad: 25 seconds of Amiga-generated simultaneous audio/visual, the last 5 seconds showing a screen saying "This entire commercial was produced and edited using a Commodore Amiga.", give them a simple 1-800 number. These ads would be incredibly easy to produce, and you could make a thousand different ones. It shows off the machine, and leaves the twitzy Mac and IBM text-junkies in the dust. But nooooooo, the combined IQ of Commodore's marking department is less than my shoe size. \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Flicker turns me on. -BJP | Get back into the SeX PiSToLs if you program in Arctangent, Naperville IL. | C. It helps. // ---------------------------- \X/ A M I G A ! \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) (06/26/91)
In article <7038@mcrware.UUCP> leeg@mcrware.UUCP (Lee Glenn) writes: >In article <rkushner.0353@sycom.UUCP> rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) writes: >> >>Didn't Commodore bring in Nolan Bushnell and set him up with an >>interactive-products division of the company?? >> >> Ronald Kushner > >Yes, they did. Now, let's see how long he lasts before Irving fires him. > If his past record is any indication, when Bushnell leaves, CDTV will be dead shortly thereafter. -- **************************************************** * I want games that look like Shadow of the Beast * * but play like Leisure Suit Larry. * ****************************************************
watters@favorite.cis.ohio-state.edu (david r watters) (06/27/91)
In article <arctngnt.0385@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: >I had always thought that this would be a good idea for an ad: > >25 seconds of Amiga-generated simultaneous audio/visual, the last 5 seconds >showing a screen saying "This entire commercial was produced and edited using >a Commodore Amiga.", give them a simple 1-800 number. >These ads would be incredibly easy to produce, and you could make a thousand >different ones. It shows off the machine, and leaves the twitzy Mac and IBM >text-junkies in the dust. > >But nooooooo, the combined IQ of Commodore's marking department is less than >my shoe size. Well, Mr. Wizard, they have already done this. The adds were fairly radical and appeared on MTV and VH-1 mostly. I guess that makes your IQ less than the gum stuck to the buttom of Commodore's marking department. :-) Try not to sound so much like Mark Barrett. ///\ _ '_/ \X//_/(/|//(/
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/27/91)
In article <arctngnt.0385@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: > >I had always thought that this would be a good idea for an ad: > >25 seconds of Amiga-generated simultaneous audio/visual, the last 5 seconds >showing a screen saying "This entire commercial was produced and edited using >a Commodore Amiga.", give them a simple 1-800 number. > > >These ads would be incredibly easy to produce, and you could make a thousand >different ones. It shows off the machine, and leaves the twitzy Mac and IBM >text-junkies in the dust. > As has been said here before, if you don't have a continuing campaign your money will be wasted. It seems pretty clear that Commodore doesn't have/want to spend the money to do that. It isn't a matter of CBM not knowing how to make an ad (that is the advertising agency's job anyway). It is a matter of spending $15 million to advertise to a HOSTILE business market or spending $15 million to advertise to a less hostile/more convincable home market. > >But nooooooo, the combined IQ of Commodore's marking department is less than >my shoe size. Oh please. Not even a smiley? You blame this all on the marketing department? You see, if you don't have any money to spend, you can't make a deal. Despite the fact that the US departments are underfunded, they've still managed to pull things such as Virginia Polytech off. -- Ethan FF buckets of bits on the bus, FF buckets of bits. Take one down, Short it to ground, FE buckets of bits on the bus.
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (06/29/91)
Oh, so they HAVE done this... But only on MTV and VH-1? What deh fuk! Screw that.. Get them on non-cable stations. No more of the wankings of Stevie Palmer, which im sure we all knew was a BIG waste of airtime. Advertise, advertise, advertise. Annoy the public. Make them think. Thats how it all works. I also noted you judged the ads as "fairly radical", which was also good. They were radical enough to remain in your head up until now. See what a good motive will go? (chuckle) Makes my IQ less than the gum stuck to the bottom of Commodore's Marketing Department? Hah.... WHAT Marketing Department? Ive seen restrooms with better advertising. "Think John Hinkley would be impressed if Reagan shot Jodie Foster?" - Me =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Nothin like a good single-tasking, single-processor based beep-box like an IBM to liven things up 'round the office! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Direct all bomb threats and assorted hate-mail to arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (06/29/91)
> As has been said here before, if you don't have a >continuing campaign your money will be wasted. It seems pretty >clear that Commodore doesn't have/want to spend the money to do >that. It isn't a matter of CBM not knowing how to make an ad >(that is the advertising agency's job anyway). It is a matter of >spending $15 million to advertise to a HOSTILE business market or >spending $15 million to advertise to a less hostile/more >convincable home market. > > Oh please. Not even a smiley? You blame this all on the >marketing department? You see, if you don't have any money to >spend, you can't make a deal. Despite the fact that the US >departments are underfunded, they've still managed to pull things >such as Virginia Polytech off. > -- Ethan > Oh come on, now. We cant keep chasing the endless "Its THEIR fault!" excuse. Find the problem at the core and kill it. i.e. the nonexistant marketing department at CBM. They had $15,000,000.00 to work with. THEY BLEW IT. Geez, I would be more than HAPPY to drag out the ol' VHS deck and whip up a commercial for them for free, geez, if its >ssssssoooooooo HARD< for them just to come up with one commercial. Divert cash. Everyone knows that CBM is making quite a bit of money in Europe...Wanna know something? The last ad from Commodore I saw was last week. Was watching a soccer game on some hispanic station, and there was a Commodore banner on the 50 yard line. THAT kind of advertising costs oh, $30 to make the banner, a little more to reserve a space on the feild. It would be a different argument completely IF Commodore was making a conscious effort to advertise. Then, I wouldnt get on their case. BUT. THEY ARENT ADVERTISING >>ANYTHING<<!! Again, lets bring up the idea of a lemonade stand. Lets say you have the most incredibly potent, great-tasting lemonade on the planet. You set up a leomade stand in your basement, behind a closed door, and you let NO ONE know youre down there. Now. You tell me. How much lemonade do you expect to sell? Little to none. Right now, 99% of Commodore's sales, I wouldnt doubt, is desrived from word-of-mouth advertising. That makes me sick. I put good money into my machine, which some of it in part SHOULD be diverted to marketing... Not only do I have to GIVE them their money, but im also expected to do their advertising? Come on, now. Someone shoot the president. Its time to wake up. Word-of-mouth campaign.. god, how low-budget can you be. Thats SAD..Here Commodore is, with CDTV, with a GREAT chance to jam a fist up CD-I's butt, and get the product out there before they do. Get the people buying. WHAT DO THEY DO? Send out flyers to dealers telling them that EVEN THOUGH THEY NOW POSSESS A CDTV, NOT TO LET THEIR CUSTOMERS SEE IT!... The flyer even said, as I saw somewhere on this net before (a copy of) "Start that word of mouth campaign early!".....God, its almost like theyre purposely plotting the demise of CDTV. Finding great humor in the fact that they produce incredible hardware, and then virtually destroying it by not even giving it a chance. Thats why im grim on CDTV, because there are idiots in control of its future. Think on it, aye? It all makes sense. There comes a point in everyones life, regardless of wether youre a programmer, businessman, or artist, where you just say "screw it", wipe out everything youve done, and start over from square 1. Thats what commodore needs to do, because CBM's marketing department is more harm than good. Its a damn cancer. Whats the use of keeping it around if it does damage? End of rebuttal (No intentions on flaming. I hate CBM's psuedo-marketing department.) "Think John Hinkley would be impressed if Reagan shot Jodie Foster?" - Me =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Nothin like a good single-tasking, single-processor based beep-box like an IBM to liven things up 'round the office! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Direct all bomb threats and assorted hate-mail to arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/29/91)
In article <arctngnt.1279@amiganet.chi.il.us> arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) writes: > >> >> Oh please. Not even a smiley? You blame this all on the >>marketing department? You see, if you don't have any money to >>spend, you can't make a deal. Despite the fact that the US >>departments are underfunded, they've still managed to pull things >>such as Virginia Polytech off. >> -- Ethan >> > >It would be a different argument completely IF Commodore was making a >conscious effort to advertise. Then, I wouldnt get on their case. BUT. THEY >ARENT ADVERTISING >>ANYTHING<<!! Again, lets bring up the idea of a lemonade >stand. Lets say you have the most incredibly potent, great-tasting lemonade on >the planet. > As has been repeated here several times, they are advertising on a regular basis in video, music and Unix magazines. That money is certainly a lot better spent than a TV advertising campaign to try to sell the Amiga to the "professional" market. The consumer market is more reachable via TV, and Commodore has said that they will have TV ads for CDTV this Christmas. I've been trying to make the point for a while that Commodore can't just break into the professional market by advertising on TV, cause no one will believe it. It is hard enough convincing people in person. They certainly won't believe what Commodore can tell them in 30 seconds or less. I will, with this message, take a several month hiatus from trying to defend Commodore, even though I think messages like this go way too far. Like Marc says, why should I do their work for them. 8-) BTW, a marketing department is only as good as the budget they receive. -- Ethan FF buckets of bits on the bus, FF buckets of bits. Take one down, Short it to ground, FE buckets of bits on the bus.
nygardm@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Michael T. Nygard) (06/30/91)
Take it to .advocacy!!! That's why it was created! -- +=======================================================================+ | | Mike Nygard | | (This space intentionally left blank) | nygardm@coil.cco.caltech.edu | +---------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (06/30/91)
In article <1991Jun30.102356.23688@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Barrett Marc N) writes: > For instance, did you know that Commodore U.S. is a bigger company >than the Gilette Razor company, and actually spends more on advertizing? >This is hard to believe, because it is very dificult to watch T.V. for >more than a couple of minutes without seeing at least one commercial >for Gilette's new razor. > The marketing figures you've seen for Commodore's spending probably refer to worldwide expenditures, as I don't believe Commodore breaks that information down, and if they do it is by continent, not country. -- Ethan FF buckets of bits on the bus, FF buckets of bits. Take one down, Short it to ground, FE buckets of bits on the bus.
arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bowie J Poag) (07/01/91)
Like I said many times before.. As long as Harry Schmerler, "The Singing Ford Dealer" can afford 4 or 5 30 second spots A DAY, covering the entire state of Illinois, im SURE a multimillion dollar organization like Commodore has a brick up its ass in the marketing department. "Think John Hinkley would be impressed if Reagan shot Jodie Foster?" - Me =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Nothin like a good single-tasking, single-processor based beep-box like an IBM to liven things up 'round the office! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Direct all bomb threats and assorted hate-mail to arctngnt@amiganet.chi.il.us