n8735053@unicorn.cc.wwu.edu (Iain Davidson) (01/10/91)
Is there an Emacs (or MicroEmacs) for the Amiga 1000 ? If so, where could I find such a beast? -iain thanks.... -- I.Davidson, A)BITS@wwu.edu B)uw-beaver!wwu.edu!IAIN C)n8735053@unicorn.wwu.edu "Gadzooks," he said lazily as he jumped into his convertible lemon and drove off with his egg-shaped wife. -- Author unknown ???
dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) (01/10/91)
In article <1991Jan10.010629.6752@unicorn.cc.wwu.edu> n8735053@unicorn.cc.wwu.edu (Iain Davidson) writes: |Is there an Emacs (or MicroEmacs) for the Amiga 1000 ? | |If so, where could I find such a beast? Have you looked at your 'Extras' disk? Release 1.3 has a version of Micro-Emacs on it... |-iain |thanks.... | |-- |I.Davidson, A)BITS@wwu.edu B)uw-beaver!wwu.edu!IAIN C)n8735053@unicorn.wwu.edu |"Gadzooks," he said lazily as he jumped into his convertible lemon | and drove off with his egg-shaped wife. -- Author unknown ??? Dave Schaumann | You are in a twisty maze of little dave@cs.arizona.edu | C statements, all different.
masaru@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Masaru Sugai) (01/10/91)
>In article <633@caslon.cs.arizona.edu> dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) writes: >>In article <1991Jan10.010629.6752@unicorn.cc.wwu.edu> n8735053@unicorn.cc.wwu.edu (Iain Davidson) writes: >>|Is there an Emacs (or MicroEmacs) for the Amiga 1000 ? >>| >>|If so, where could I find such a beast? >> >>Have you looked at your 'Extras' disk? Release 1.3 has a version of >>Micro-Emacs on it... > Please let me cut in this topic. I am dying for a good editor, and I tried out Micro-Emacs and Stevie (vi clone) to find out that they have little undo capability. I don't want full emacs ( I cannot make full use of it ...), but does anyone know a good editor with good undo function ? Thanks in advance. - Masaru Sugai masaru@media-lab.media.mit.edu
peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (01/10/91)
In article <1991Jan10.010629.6752@unicorn.cc.wwu.edu> n8735053@unicorn.cc.wwu.edu (Iain Davidson) writes: >Is there an Emacs (or MicroEmacs) for the Amiga 1000 ? > >If so, where could I find such a beast? On every Extras disk since 1.3! Are there still so many people out still using 1.2 or under? -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (01/10/91)
n8735053@unicorn.cc.wwu.edu (Iain Davidson)
in <1991Jan10.010629.6752@unicorn.cc.wwu.edu> writes:
Is there an Emacs (or MicroEmacs) for the Amiga 1000 ?
If so, where could I find such a beast?
AmigaLibDisk 147 (aka Fish Disk #147) has the ``mg'' executable ...ver 2a.
The latest sources of "mg" (micro GNU (sic) emacs) are on disk 131 (ver 1b).
There is supposed to be a beta version of mg3 "floating around" someplace.
The ``mg'' executable is less than 100K so should work fine on an unexpanded
A1000.
Also, on the EXTRAS disk for both 1.2 and 1.3 AmigaOS, there is CBM's port of
a MicroEMACS ... this is also usable on an A1000.
If you have an expanded system (i.e. mucho RAM), you may want to try the real
GNU Emacs. Check out some of the recent postings to comp.sys.amiga.misc for
the details.
Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]riley@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Daniel S. Riley) (01/10/91)
In article <37821@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >There is supposed to be a beta version of mg3 "floating around" someplace. >The ``mg'' executable is less than 100K so should work fine on an unexpanded >A1000. "Someplace" includes Fish disk 352: CONTENTS OF DISK 352 -------------------- MG Beta version of mg3, including ARexx support. This is probably the most stable beta for the next year, as many new features are going in after this. Amiga-only release. Sources compressed with lharc to fit on the disk. Update to mg2b on disk 147. Author: Mike Meyer, et al. The beta is really quite stable--it has one or two minor annoyances, but no big bugs, and it has never crashed on me. -Dan Riley (riley@theory.tn.cornell.edu, cornell!batcomputer!riley) -Wilson Lab, Cornell University
spence@cbmvax.commodore.com (Spencer Shanson) (01/11/91)
In article <4798@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU> masaru@media-lab.media.mit.edu (Masaru Sugai) writes: >I am dying for a good editor, and I tried out Micro-Emacs and Stevie (vi clone) >to find out that they have little undo capability. I don't want full emacs ( I >cannot make full use of it ...), but does anyone know a good editor with >good undo function ? > CygnusEd from ASDG has and undo facility. You can set the level of undo as low or as high as you like (memory permitting). >Thanks in advance. > >- Masaru Sugai masaru@media-lab.media.mit.edu -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Spencer Shanson - Amiga Software Engineer | email: spence@commodore.COM | or uunet!cbmvax!spence All opinions expressed are my own, and do not | "A picture is worth 1000 (necessarily) represent those of Commodore. | words, or about 300,000 | bytes."
davidm@uunet.UU.NET (David S. Masterson) (01/11/91)
>>>>> On 10 Jan 91 09:40:09 GMT, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) said:
Thad> AmigaLibDisk 147 (aka Fish Disk #147) has the ``mg'' executable ...ver
Thad> 2a. The latest sources of "mg" (micro GNU (sic) emacs) are on disk 131
Thad> (ver 1b). There is supposed to be a beta version of mg3 "floating
Thad> around" someplace. The ``mg'' executable is less than 100K so should
Thad> work fine on an unexpanded A1000.
The beta version of mg3 (mg3beta4) is on the Fish Disks as well (#352, I
think) with sources. It looks good and includes an Arexx interface (can you
say 'big macros' -- I knew you could).
--
====================================================================
David Masterson Consilium, Inc.
(415) 691-6311 640 Clyde Ct.
uunet!cimshop!davidm Mtn. View, CA 94043
====================================================================
"If someone thinks they know what I said, then I didn't say it!"a218@mindlink.UUCP (Charlie Gibbs) (01/11/91)
In article <1991Jan11.001849.9549@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) raves about CygnusEd. I've been a long-time CygnusEd user (in fact, I'm composing this message on it) and I thought I'd correct a few technical nits. It's actually even better than what you say. > supports a >90Kbyte undo buffer, which is far more mistakes than I'd be likely to >make in a row. One way you can overflow it is to cut too large a block of text from your file for undo to put back. That 90K can be changed, though, to any size you like (memory permitting). >It does multiple windows into multiple files Or can open multiple views on one file, or do any combination of the two. > it keeps all but >the current window shrunk down to a single line and a title bar Actually, that's just another option; you can make any window any size and have them stay that way if you prefer. Sizing windows is as easy as dragging the title bar up and down. > and it lets >you use a _66_ line screen, by using a 6 vertical pixel font on an >interlace screen. That font, by the way, is supplied. Although CygnusEd offers the option of opening a window on the Workbench screen, it's better to let it open its own screen. Then you can do things like switching into and out of interlace mode on the fly. For those of you without flickerFixers, you can choose any combination of the four Workbench colours; some of them really help reduce the effects of flicker. Another thing CygnusEd can do with its screen is to change to any of a number of overscanned widths and heights, again on the fly. Your choices can be saved for subsequent runs, of course. On my flickerFixed 2500/20, I can have it open a 704x472-pixel screen; that aforementioned 6-pixel font will then display _76_ lines. CygnusEd can display any fixed-pitch font; once you've shown off your 76-line screen to your friends, try switching to 24-point Courier (all with no loss of text, of course). >You move from window to window on the screen with a keystroke >(Right Amiga < or > as I remember), and it is just a delight to use. You can use right-Amiga-comma or -period too (it doesn't care whether you're holding the shift key down or not), assuming you don't just click into the desired window with the mouse. And you're right, it really is a delight to use. Here at work I have my 1000 connected to a Unix box; if I'm editing something of any size I bring it across and use CygnusEd rather than using vi. A few other things: It has an ARexx interface; it's really wild to run a little ARexx program and suddenly have the editor screen pop to the front and start doing all sorts of things automagically. The included demo will knock your socks off. The smooth scrolling is a wonder to behold - if you've moved a long way by dragging the scroll bar, the text jumps if the screen can't keep up; when you release the scroll bar the text decelerates and slides to a stop. Search and replace are lightning-fast. The contents of the cut-and-paste buffer can be saved to a file or sent to the printer. You can set execution priority so it gets along nicely with other jobs. If you like, you can have it automatically save your text as often as you wish, and of course it'll warn you if you try to exit without saving your latest version. You can create .info files if you like (of course, it's fully runnable from the Workbench). There's even nice little things like changing the case of the current letter or word, stripping carriage returns from files that you got from another system, and even a rot13 function. I haven't played much with word wrapping or cutting and pasting columns, but "it's in there." Most of these functions are available from the keyboard as well as the extensive menus. Wow, I did start raving, didn't I? >This is, of course, not a *free* editor, but I think I've been >paying a little too much of my time for the editor I use now. Worth every penny, as far as I'm concerned. Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.UUCP Anyone who thinks the government doesn't tax the very air we breathe has never had a SCUBA tank refilled.
vinsci@nic.funet.fi (Leonard Norrgard) (01/11/91)
In article <723@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: >Is there an Emacs (or MicroEmacs) for the Amiga 1000 ? > >If so, where could I find such a beast? On every Extras disk since 1.3! Are there still so many people out still using 1.2 or under? If your are using Emacs on other systems as well, then you will not want to use the CBM version on the extras disk. This is simply because someone made find-file (^X^F) exit the editor rather than the standard find-file. (I won't submit a bug report on this, if you read it, fix it!) On 1.3, use MG2a instead, the never MicroGNUEmacs, version 3beta4 has lots of new bugs, including a disturbing refresh bug. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk -- Leonard
vinsci@nic.funet.fi (Leonard Norrgard) (01/12/91)
In article <17399@cbmvax.commodore.com> andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes: In article <VINSCI.91Jan11104015@nic.nic.funet.fi> vinsci@nic.funet.fi (Leonard Norrgard) writes: >If your are using Emacs on other systems as well, then you will not >want to use the CBM version on the extras disk. This is simply because >someone made find-file (^X^F) exit the editor rather than the standard >find-file. (I won't submit a bug report on this, if you read it, fix >it!) There are several standards of key sequences for Emacs...one family is based on Gosling's Emacs. The other is based on GNU. The version on the 1.3 Extras disk is based on Gosling's style of commands. Of course. But one of them is more standard than the other is. It is not Gosling's Emacs, and you know that. Just because something is different than what you're use to does not indicate the presence of a bug. It is inconsistent with the GNU Emacs on your Unix release. That's a user interface bug to me. (And of course; who use Gosling's Emacs? :-) One of the main points with emacs [whether it is the full GNU Emacs or some subset] is that it looks and works the same way on all the machines for which it is available, is that too much to ask for? Be nice now, or I'll send you a bunch of OS bug reports. (OK, I'll send them anyway... ;-) andy "God was able to create the world in only seven days because there was no installed base to consider." Also, check the Isamov book ending in (paraphrased) "It is worse than that, he's going to rest on the seventh day". (That's the one on brain travelling -- recommended). -- Leonard
vinsci@nic.funet.fi (Leonard Norrgard) (01/12/91)
I wrote: >Also, check the Isamov book ending in (paraphrased) "It is worse than >that, he's going to rest on the seventh day". (That's the one on brain >travelling -- recommended). New abbrev there ;-) It should of course be Isaac Asimov... -- Leonard
dac@prolix.ccadfa.oz.au (Andrew Clayton) (01/12/91)
In article <17399@cbmvax.commodore.com>, Andy Finkel writes: > In article <VINSCI.91Jan11104015@nic.nic.funet.fi> vinsci@nic.funet.fi (Leonard Norrgard) writes: > >In article <723@cbmger.UUCP> peterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes: > >If your are using Emacs on other systems as well, then you will not > >want to use the CBM version on the extras disk. This is simply because > >someone made find-file (^X^F) exit the editor rather than the standard > >find-file. (I won't submit a bug report on this, if you read it, fix > >it!) > > There are several standards of key sequences for Emacs...one family > is based on Gosling's Emacs. The other is based on GNU. The > version on the 1.3 Extras disk is based on Gosling's style of > commands. > > Just because something is different than what you're use to > does not indicate the presence of a bug. > > (Especially since you could have just rebound the commands to > the set you are used to, ie > > bind-key Rename ^XF I can (vaguely) understand that people like to be able to use the same editor over multiple platforms, but really, why put up with the arcane arts, when you can use a MAGIC editor like Cygnus Ed? All this 'control key' and 'escape key' nonsense is for the birds! Arexx and any_key macros, with undo, split screens and intelligent handling of requestors and file names. It's just so much EASIER to use. (I class Amiga-key sequences to be more intuitive than escape or control key ones :-). I value my time, more than I value any supposed 'across architecture' editing rubbish. I have to put up with ISPF, EDNA, and Edlin. I don't need the hassle of 'compatibility' to bog me down on my home machine. Just my opinion. > andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy Dac -- _l _ _ // Andrew Clayton. Canberra, Australia. I Post . (_](_l(_ \X/ ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au!prolix!dac . . I am. -------- I cannot send or receive mail to or from sites outside of Australia.
andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) (01/13/91)
In article <VINSCI.91Jan12070716@nic.nic.funet.fi> vinsci@nic.funet.fi (Leonard Norrgard) writes: >In article <17399@cbmvax.commodore.com> andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes: >Of course. But one of them is more standard than the other is. It is >not Gosling's Emacs, and you know that. > > Just because something is different than what you're use to > does not indicate the presence of a bug. > >It is inconsistent with the GNU Emacs on your Unix release. That's a >user interface bug to me. (And of course; who use Gosling's Emacs? :-) That's a really, really weak point; Oddly enough, AmigaOS is *different* from Unix. As is its user interface. Its a different operating system. It comes with different features. By your logic GNU emacs has a bug because it doesn't have an insert mode like VI. Further, MicroEmacs has been around for quite awhile, longer than we've been shipping GNU emacs. >One of the main points with emacs [whether it is the full GNU >Emacs or some subset] is that it looks and works the same way on all >the machines for which it is available, is that too much to ask for? Actually, the main point of real emacs is that it is extensible. You seem to have deleted the line suggesting you just rebind the keys in microemacs ot match the command set you are use to, so I'll mention it again. >-- Leonard andy -- andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy Commodore-Amiga, Inc. "God was able to create the world in only seven days because there was no installed base to consider." Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share. I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) (01/13/91)
In article <18834327.ARN09723@prolix.ccadfa.oz.au> ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au!prolix!Dac writes: >In article <17399@cbmvax.commodore.com>, Andy Finkel writes: >I can (vaguely) understand that people like to be able to use the same editor >over multiple platforms, but really, why put up with the arcane arts, when you >can use a MAGIC editor like Cygnus Ed? All this 'control key' and 'escape key' >nonsense is for the birds! > >Arexx and any_key macros, with undo, split screens and intelligent handling of >requestors and file names. It's just so much EASIER to use. (I class Amiga-key >sequences to be more intuitive than escape or control key ones :-). > >I value my time, more than I value any supposed 'across architecture' editing >rubbish. I have to put up with ISPF, EDNA, and Edlin. I don't need the hassle >of 'compatibility' to bog me down on my home machine. > >Just my opinion. Editors tend to be a religious issue; there's never any point in arguing the merits of one vs the other. People have different needs and different wants; no editor is 'one size fits all'. The best editor is one that doesn't get in my way, works the way I want it to, and does what I want. I bet that matches your definition of the best editor as well. The only funny thing, is that we're not talking about the same editor. >Dac andy -- andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy Commodore-Amiga, Inc. "God was able to create the world in only seven days because there was no installed base to consider." Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share. I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
liberato@dri.com (Jimmy Liberato) (01/13/91)
andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes: >Just because something is different than what you're use to >does not indicate the presence of a bug. I just noticed today that I am unable to horizontally scroll with the 1.3 memacs. In other words, if the line is longer than the default line length I can't edit it. Is this a bug or is there a way to change the default? -- Jimmy Liberato liberato@dri.com ...uunet!drivax!liberato
a80@mindlink.UUCP (Greg Goss) (01/13/91)
> n8735053@unicorn.cc.wwu.edu writes: > > Msg-ID: <1991Jan10.010629.6752@unicorn.cc.wwu.edu> > Posted: 10 Jan 91 01:06:29 GMT > > Org. : Western Washington University, Bellingham WA. > Person: Iain Davidson > > Is there an Emacs (or MicroEmacs) for the Amiga 1000 ? > > If so, where could I find such a beast? > > -iain > thanks.... > > -- > I.Davidson, A)BITS@wwu.edu B)uw-beaver!wwu.edu!IAIN > C)n8735053@unicorn.wwu.edu > "Gadzooks," he said lazily as he jumped into his convertible lemon > and drove off with his egg-shaped wife. -- Author unknown ??? It's been on the "EXTRAS" disk shipped with every release of the OS since 1.1. You probably already have it. .../greg
FelineGrace@cup.portal.com (Dana B Bourgeois) (01/14/91)
According to the Enhancer 1.3 docs, you can't edit past the 80th char. (page 7-1). What you have to do is temporarily break the line by inserting a carriage return, edit it to your heart's content, then delete the carriage return. That's what I do and it works just fine. The other thing you can do is get one of the several PD versions of EMACS and modify it. I think the FF disks have at least three versions with source. Dana Bourgeois @ cup.portal.com
swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) (01/15/91)
In article <17493@cbmvax.commodore.com> andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes: >In article <18834327.ARN09723@prolix.ccadfa.oz.au> ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au!prolix!Dac writes: >>In article <17399@cbmvax.commodore.com>, Andy Finkel writes: >>I can (vaguely) understand that people like to be able to use the same editor >>over multiple platforms, but really, why put up with the arcane arts,when you >>can use a MAGIC editor like Cygnus Ed? All this 'control key' and escape key >>nonsense is for the birds! Actually, while my gnu exposure over the last 2 years has made me a confirmed gnu emacs user, I have to say that the editor I was the most productive with was, believe it or not, the VAX keypad editor. It didn't have a lot of the features I've come to take for granted. But the keypad command-mapping layout worked quite well. I was able to perform editting functions almost instantly with the keypad. I wouldn't want to do without the mouse-placed cursor of the X-windows interface of GNU Emacs. But in a frequently used application like an editor, menus actually slow you down (although they help immensely when you are coming up to speed, or if you are a casual user). Similarly, I remember when I worked for over a year on a commercial, dedicated CADAM system (not PC-based). The workstations had special function keypads on the side that you could rest one hand on (I controlled my puck with my right hand, so I used my left hand on the keypad). All the functions of the CAD software could be controlled either by menu selections on the screen or by directly selecting the function through the large dedicated keypad. Once you learned the system you tended to abandon the menus in favor of the keypad because your productivity increased dramatically when you used the keypad. Of course a special purpose keypad is not reasonable for an editor like GNU Emacs which is portable across all the current popular machines. The next best thing for a truly portable editor is to map all commands to the normal keyboard, which is a peripheral that is guaranteed to be found on all machines that GNU Emacs is ported to. ;^) And since GNU is what I use all day at work, and since I would prefer not to have to undergo a paradigm shift when I go home, I would prefer GNU at home, even if CED is superior in some ways. And GNU is not really arcane. Just portable. It is a pretty advanced editor in it's own rights, especially considering the fact that it is free. -- _. --Steve ._||__ DISCLAIMER: All opinions are my own. Warren v\ *| ---------------------------------------------- V {uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.com
mwm@raven.relay.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) (01/15/91)
In article <18834327.ARN09723@prolix.ccadfa.oz.au> dac@prolix.ccadfa.oz.au (Andrew Clayton) writes: I value my time, more than I value any supposed 'across architecture' editing rubbish. I have to put up with ISPF, EDNA, and Edlin. I don't need the hassle of 'compatibility' to bog me down on my home machine. I agree with that. My "home" machine (the one I spend the most time working on) is a DS3100. No cygnus ed here. Lot's of versions of emacs. Rather than have to relearn the keystroke sequences (or rebind the things to match what I want), I run an editor with the right set of keystrokes. That way, I can use muscle memory on both systems, and don't have to get bogged down thinking about which editor I'm using. In article <4407@mindlink.UUCP> a218@mindlink.UUCP (Charlie Gibbs) writes: A few other things: It [CED] has an ARexx interface; it's really wild to run a little ARexx program and suddenly have the editor screen pop to the front and start doing all sorts of things automagically. The included demo will knock your socks off. Actually, that sounds like a real waste of time. If I'm running an ARexx macro, I don't want the editor taking time to redraw the window - I want it running my macro! Ideally, it supports both modes, so you can build demos and such in the editor, but don't have to watch it walk through a couple of thousand lines of text checking for spelling errors (you do use an Arexx-driven spelling checker, don't you?). <mike --
xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (01/15/91)
vinsci@nic.funet.fi (Leonard Norrgard) writes: ----- | If your are using Emacs on other systems as well, then you will not want | to use the CBM version on the extras disk. This is simply because | someone made find-file (^X^F) exit the editor rather than the standard | find-file. (I won't submit a bug report on this, if you read it, fix | it!) ----- andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes: ----- | There are several standards of key sequences for Emacs...one family is | based on Gosling's Emacs. The other is based on GNU. The version on the | 1.3 Extras disk is based on Gosling's style of commands. ----- vinsci@nic.funet.fi (Leonard Norrgard) writes: ----- | Of course. But one of them is more standard than the other is. It is | not Gosling's Emacs, and you know that. ----- andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes: ----- | Just because something is different than what you're use to does not | indicate the presence of a bug. ----- vinsci@nic.funet.fi (Leonard Norrgard) writes: ----- | It is inconsistent with the GNU Emacs on your Unix release. That's a | user interface bug to me. (And of course; who use Gosling's Emacs? :-) | One of the main points with emacs [whether it is the full GNU Emacs or | some subset] is that it looks and works the same way on all the machines | for which it is available, is that too much to ask for? Be nice now, or | I'll send you a bunch of OS bug reports. (OK, I'll send them anyway... | ;-) ----- Well (he harumphed), so long as GNU emacs maintains a standard of binding the backspace key to the help command, effectively crippling half the keyboards in the world, and fails to document any way for a naive user to rebind that key simply and easily to the destructive backspace, I'll have to leave its key bindings as among the more brain-dead decisions in the known computing universe. Note that any attempt to rebind the key interactively is doomed to fail, because you can't even stop it from generating help messages when it's quoted. Frankly, as destructive as that binding is for a keyboard with the delete key away from the main keyset, rebinding it should be the subject of the first paragraph in the GNU emacs manual. I have no intention of _ever_ becoming so expert at the arcana of any editor that I have to reprogram the editor before I can use it. It is, as Humpty Dumpty once said, a matter of who is to be master. It is just too much to expect a touch typist to use the delete key for emacs, and the backspace key for everything else typed. Rotten human engineering counts for a lot, and that one takes the cake. I've sent that message to Stallman at least twice, and his total lack of a repair tells me all I want to know about the chances of "free" software ever being user friendly. The profit motive accomplishes a lot. With this miserable exception, you can rebind the keys to whatever you want, and Gosling's binding was in wide use for years before the GNU project's version became available, so deciding which is the true standard is a) pointless and b) meaningless, and c) a religious question anyway. Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us> -- Yes, I'm sure there's some simple way to do it, but in three years of using the editor, I never found the trick, never got over being mad about the stupidity of the binding long enough to want to try that hard.
dac@prolix.ccadfa.oz.au (Andrew Clayton) (01/15/91)
In article <MWM.91Jan14115414@raven.relay.pa.dec.com>, Mike (My Watch Has Windows writes: > In article <18834327.ARN09723@prolix.ccadfa.oz.au> dac@prolix.ccadfa.oz.au (Andrew Clayton) writes: > > I value my time, more than I value any supposed 'across architecture' > editing rubbish. I have to put up with ISPF, EDNA, and Edlin. I don't need > the hassle of 'compatibility' to bog me down on my home machine. > > I agree with that. My "home" machine (the one I spend the most time > working on) is a DS3100. No cygnus ed here. Lot's of versions of Hardly astute of you to point that out in an _Amiga_ area! :-) > of keystrokes. That way, I can use muscle memory on both systems, and > don't have to get bogged down thinking about which editor I'm using. Some people don't have a choice of editor. I do. I'm thankful that I have the nouce to be able to exercise my choice. Mentioning that CED was the best thing since bitblts is my way of saying 'look, there is this neat editor, you ought to try it.' There are other reasons, but they don't look as nice, since ego jumps in and spoils the view. > In article <4407@mindlink.UUCP> a218@mindlink.UUCP (Charlie Gibbs) writes: > > A few other things: It [CED] has an ARexx interface; it's really > wild to run a little ARexx program and suddenly have the editor > screen pop to the front and start doing all sorts of things > automagically. The included demo will knock your socks off. > > Actually, that sounds like a real waste of time. If I'm running an > ARexx macro, I don't want the editor taking time to redraw the window Gack. You don't have to have Arexx use CED to do things. What Charlie was saying is that you CAN do that. It's very nice to be able to control ALL of the editor from within an Arexx script. That way I can call the macro, and have it leave the editor in a state that I find useful - resize the window (I usually use split screen mode), and place the cursor back where it was, ready for me to go on reading. It is hard not to understate the value of Arexx ports. > errors (you do use an Arexx-driven spelling checker, don't you?). Now that's cruel. > <mike Dac --
burley@geech.ai.mit.edu (Craig Burley) (01/15/91)
In article <1991Jan15.091854.24428@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes:
Frankly, as destructive as that binding is for a keyboard with the
delete key away from the main keyset, rebinding it should be the
subject of the first paragraph in the GNU emacs manual. I have no
intention of _ever_ becoming so expert at the arcana of any editor
that I have to reprogram the editor before I can use it. It is, as
Humpty Dumpty once said, a matter of who is to be master.
EMACS key bindings were developed on terminals with huge keyboards and
lots of keys with names like META and such. It is frustrating to rebind
backspace to delete and such, but that's the EMACS history. I used
the Xwindows "xmodmap" to do the rebind, so I get it everywhere (EMACS
isn't the only environment I use that assumed DEL, not BS, meant delete
previous character).
It is just too much to expect a touch typist to use the delete key for
emacs, and the backspace key for everything else typed.
Rotten human engineering counts for a lot, and that one takes the cake.
I've sent that message to Stallman at least twice, and his total lack of
a repair tells me all I want to know about the chances of "free"
software ever being user friendly. The profit motive accomplishes a lot.
Unfortunately, the Free Software Foundation is still only at the stage
of doing programmer-oriented software, and for that audience, EMACS
is hardly "rotten engineering". Few programmers use EMACS without
modifying it their own way (I've never seen any programmer use it without
changing it). Even rms, who apparently decided to make all the GNU EMACS
defaults be whatever he wanted as his own environment, has some stuff
in his startup file (though the smallest amount I've ever seen in a
programmer's EMACS startup!). Note that DEL and BS have distinct meanings
in the ASCII standard, and given that all the other one-key strokes
have "standard" meanings under EMACS, providing a one-key "help" required
sacrificing either DEL or BS. Since BS almost never does what is
expected (backspace, allowing overstrike, as on a typewriter) but DEL does
(delete previous character), and since all pertinent keyboards allow
control-H but not all allow a control- sequence to produce DEL (and these
latter ones typically provide DEL as the canonical delete-previous key),
providing the critical help function on a key that is always available
probably made a perverse kind of sense. The problem is a combination
of problems -- no standard keyboard layout and meaning for other than
alphanumerics, and an overly crowded map of single-character keystrokes
in standard EMACS.
When the developer-oriented GNU environment is largely built, the FSF
presumably will turn its attention to user-friendly, ready-right-out-
of-the-box end-user applications like word processing, draw programs
(in X? sigh), personal financial programs, and the like. After making
the typical bunch of programmer-centric mistakes, I expect they'll get
it right -- after all, there will be so many people like you who'll just
hack the code to make it do the right thing if it doesn't already! The
FSF will need that kind of input and bug-fixing even more than it does
now.
(Which makes me wonder -- why don't you just make a version of GNU EMACS
available that has YOUR favorite key bindings as defaults? It really
isn't a bad idea -- you could essentially start from scratch and make
a much more sensible set of bindings for typical UNIX keyboards, or maybe
even for the Amiga itself. Or at least provide a canonical startup file
for free, for people who don't want to get into programming EMACS. A lot
of people might really appreciate that.)
With this miserable exception, you can rebind the keys to whatever you
want, and Gosling's binding was in wide use for years before the GNU
project's version became available, so deciding which is the true
standard is a) pointless and b) meaningless, and c) a religious question
anyway.
The true standard, if any, would be the original version of EMACS. I
don't remember whether BS was bound to a help function and DEL bound to
delete previous character, but as I used DEC and those aforementioned
huge-keyboard terminals back when EMACS was first written and did play
with EMACS then, my guess is that DEL indeed was the delete keystroke.
However, I'm quite sure that ^X-^F was always "find file", not "write
changes and exit" (which I think is what Gosling's EMACS does). And
obviously the original EMACS predated Gosling EMACS. And I believe
GNU EMACS is more faithful to original EMACS, which is to be
expected, of course! (Of course, the extension language is a "leeetle
deeeferent", but that goes for Gosling EMACS as well. :-)
In any case, the reason deciding which is the true standard is a) pointless
and b) meaningless is precisely BECAUSE everyone is expected to make their
own extensions and rebind some keys. It would be critical to decide which
is the true standard if we all had to live with the key bindings as
delivered -- but then if that were the case, we probably wouldn't all be
using EMACS (i.e. its audience would be much smaller), would we?
--
James Craig Burley, Software Craftsperson burley@ai.mit.edumwm@raven.relay.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) (01/16/91)
It is just too much to expect a touch typist to use the delete key for emacs, and the backspace key for everything else typed. Some environments (for example, anywhere inside of Digital) default to the delete key to delete characters. The only reason I haven't changed over to that is because getting an Amiga to consistently believe that the large key in the upper right of the keyboard is a delete key is difficult. If I could do that, I'd quit using the backspace key to delete characters. <mike -- The road is full of dangerous curves Mike Meyer And we don't want to go too fast mwm@relay.pa.dec.com We may not make it first decwrl!mwm But I know we're going to make it last.
swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) (01/16/91)
In article <1195@tekig7.MAP.TEK.COM> phils@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Philip E Staub) writes: [...] > > (global-set-key "\b" 'delete-backward-char) > (global-set-key "\C-x?" 'help-for-help) > >Does this do what you want? Here is how I do it: (global-set-key "\C-H" 'delete-backward-char) I guess if your keyboard doesn't generate ^h for backspace then this wouldn't work, but I think ^h is pretty standard for that key. It works for me. >Note that I haven't tried the above on the Amiga GNU release. (I'm anxiously >awaiting a fully functional GNU emacs on the Amiga.) Me neither. Me too. ;^) >What hurt me more was the use of ^S/^Q. When I dial in to work from home, I >have to access my machine via a terminal concentrator which swallows those >two characters. My answer: when I need to use Emacs from home, I use DNET. >If I can't use DNET, I use vi 8-(. Many terminals use these 2 characters to perform scroll lock/unlock. All the ones I have seen have a setup screen that allows you to change the mapping of these keys so that the terminal does not scarf them up. Look around in your emulator for a setup capability. -- _. --Steve ._||__ DISCLAIMER: All opinions are my own. Warren v\ *| ---------------------------------------------- V {uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.com
phils@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Philip E Staub) (01/16/91)
In article <1991Jan15.192334.19893@convex.com> swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: >>What hurt me more was the use of ^S/^Q. When I dial in to work from home, I >>have to access my machine via a terminal concentrator which swallows those >>two characters. My answer: when I need to use Emacs from home, I use DNET. >>If I can't use DNET, I use vi 8-(. > >Many terminals use these 2 characters to perform scroll lock/unlock. All >the ones I have seen have a setup screen that allows you to change the >mapping of these keys so that the terminal does not scarf them up. Look >around in your emulator for a setup capability. The problem is not in the emulator. My terminal emulator has no problem sending ^S/^Q. The problem is in the machine I have to go through to get to my workstation at work. I dial in to a modem connected at 1200/2400 baud to a box which has an ethernet connection to my workstation. It's this 1200/2400 baud box which swallows the ^S/^Q, and I have no control over that box. BTW, '\b' is a ^H on my keyboard, (and most other keyboards I know of). > >-- > _. >--Steve ._||__ DISCLAIMER: All opinions are my own. > Warren v\ *| ---------------------------------------------- > V {uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.com Phil -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Phil Staub, phils@mozart.PEN.TEK.COM Definition: BUG: A feature (present or absent) which is (at best) inconvenient.
jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) (01/16/91)
Quoted from <1991Jan11.001849.9549@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> by xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan): > getting UUCP going) and got to use Cygnus Ed on his 2000/30 box. This is > a true marvel of an editor, with what seemed to be all of emacs' I've been looking at Cygnus Ed recently, trying to get it to co-operate with a news reader program I wrote. My normal editor is MicroEMACS - 3.9e from Fish #119 on the Amiga, and 3.10i on the PS/2 at work. There are a number of areas in which I find it deficient. The biggest is the way it handles having multiple files open at the same time. It requires a window for each open file, which can be annoying. There are some other oddities, like the way moving the cursor a word at the time seems to be a two-hand operation, or the autosave being time-based instead of character based, and the autosave interrupting things with a prompt, or the requirement for a requester to set a repeat count for things, or... etc, lots of things that come down to taste. It _is_ very slick, and unlike MicroEMACS has an ARexx port, can stay resident in memory, etc. > Kent, the man from xanth. -- *** John Bickers, TAP, NZAmigaUG. jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz *** *** "Patterns multiplying, re-direct our view" - Devo. ***
jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) (01/16/91)
Quoted from <18834327.ARN09723@prolix.ccadfa.oz.au> by dac@prolix.ccadfa.oz.au (Andrew Clayton): > In article <17399@cbmvax.commodore.com>, Andy Finkel writes: > > bind-key Rename ^XF > I can (vaguely) understand that people like to be able to use the same editor > over multiple platforms, but really, why put up with the arcane arts, when you > can use a MAGIC editor like Cygnus Ed? All this 'control key' and 'escape key' Because the "arcane arts" are faster. Simple example, to set up a repeat count with CED you have to press <Amiga>-<Shift>-<'>, type your number, press <Return>, then hit the key you want repeated. Under MicroEMACS, it's just <Esc><number><key to repeat>. If you do much of this key-repeating stuff (execute a macro n times, add comment lines, etc), this can be annoying. > Dac -- *** John Bickers, TAP, NZAmigaUG. jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz *** *** "Patterns multiplying, re-direct our view" - Devo. ***
a218@mindlink.UUCP (Charlie Gibbs) (01/16/91)
In article <MWM.91Jan16123347@raven.relay.pa.dec.com> mwm@raven.relay.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) writes: >I did look at it once upon a time. I decided to stay with something >that 1) didn't require lots of arcania to configure, and 2) I had >source to. Actually, there's no arcania at all. For some time I ran with CED straight out of the box. After a while, I got tired of having that timed save requester pop up, especially since if it happened while I was typing really fast I might hit a Y and wind up writing a stripped-down file over the original instead of getting a chance to save it under a different name. :-( So I found the menu entry that turned it off, then found the one that said "Save environment". Presto - all done. (I did it once afterwards to make it remember to open an overscanned screen.) Of course, there's still the learning curve. Although it's a small one, smaller ones have kept busy people like me from trying something new. And, of course, you don't get source. :-) > > In article <4407@mindlink.UUCP> a218@mindlink.UUCP (Charlie Gibbs) writes: > > > > A few other things: It [CED] has an ARexx interface; it's really > > wild to run a little ARexx program and suddenly have the editor > > screen pop to the front and start doing all sorts of things > > automagically. The included demo will knock your socks off. > > > > Actually, that sounds like a real waste of time. If I'm running an > > ARexx macro, I don't want the editor taking time to redraw the window > > Gack. > > You don't have to have Arexx use CED to do things. What Charlie was saying > is that you CAN do that. > >You missed the point - I have ARexx do lots of things in my editor >(for instance, fetch the ARexx function around the point, find the >test cases in the introductory comment, run them, and put the results >in another buffer, flagging the ones that are wrong). I don't really >want to watch the editor do things while the macro is running - I just >want to see the results. The implied question was whether you can turn >this updating of the display off. I'm still interested in that. Since I started this thing in the first place, I guess I'd better clear up the misconceptions. The only reason the CED screen popped to the front is because the ARexx program had a "screentofront" directive at the beginning. Had I left it out, CED would have quietly done its business in the background. Sorry for not pointing that out. Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.UUCP "Don't you hate it when that happens?" -- Beetlejuice
mwm@raven.relay.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) (01/17/91)
In article <1887432a.ARN09843@prolix.ccadfa.oz.au> dac@prolix.ccadfa.oz.au (Andrew Clayton) writes: In article <MWM.91Jan14115414@raven.relay.pa.dec.com>, Mike (My Watch Has Windows writes: > I agree with that. My "home" machine (the one I spend the most time > working on) is a DS3100. No cygnus ed here. Lot's of versions of Hardly astute of you to point that out in an _Amiga_ area! :-) Well - if I could make enough to support my family IMTBAT, I'd quit using the DS3100. As it is, I work with it more than an Amiga... Some people don't have a choice of editor. I do. I'm thankful that I have the nouce to be able to exercise my choice. Mentioning that CED was the best thing since bitblts is my way of saying 'look, there is this neat editor, you ought to try it.' I did look at it once upon a time. I decided to stay with something that 1) didn't require lots of arcania to configure, and 2) I had source to. > In article <4407@mindlink.UUCP> a218@mindlink.UUCP (Charlie Gibbs) writes: > > A few other things: It [CED] has an ARexx interface; it's really > wild to run a little ARexx program and suddenly have the editor > screen pop to the front and start doing all sorts of things > automagically. The included demo will knock your socks off. > > Actually, that sounds like a real waste of time. If I'm running an > ARexx macro, I don't want the editor taking time to redraw the window Gack. You don't have to have Arexx use CED to do things. What Charlie was saying is that you CAN do that. You missed the point - I have ARexx do lots of things in my editor (for instance, fetch the ARexx function around the point, find the test cases in the introductory comment, run them, and put the results in another buffer, flagging the ones that are wrong). I don't really want to watch the editor do things while the macro is running - I just want to see the results. The implied question was whether you can turn this updating of the display off. I'm still interested in that. > errors (you do use an Arexx-driven spelling checker, don't you?). Now that's cruel. Why? Because it's handy to be able to interactively check the spelling of a word (or automatically, if you want it done that way), and get suggestions on correct spellings while in the editor, as opposed to running the spelling checker outside the editor after you're done? <mike -- Es brillig war. Die schlichte Toven Mike Meyer Wirrten und wimmelten in Waben; mwm@pa.dec.com Und aller-mumsige Burggoven decwrl!mwm Die mohmem Rath' ausgraben.
a218@mindlink.UUCP (Charlie Gibbs) (01/17/91)
In article <MWM.91Jan17111743@raven.relay.pa.dec.com> mwm@raven.relay.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) writes: >You mean it looks very much like GNU emacs out of the box? If not, >then there's arcania involved for me to configure it. Oops, my mistake. I thought you were referring to the amount of effort required to make it run at all, in a default configuration. Now that my fingers have learned CED, I'd probably want to configure any other editor to look like it. Sigh. >Much more reasonable. Does it try and update it's window while it's in >the background, or will the window stay frozen until the macro is >through? (There are lots of other things tied into this, like whether >the window accepts user commands at that time, etc.). After all, it's >not seeing it that's the problem - it's that it takes time out to >update the display with information that's of no interest to me. The >ability to do that update is a nice feature; the inabaility to turn it >off is a bug. This is getting a bit out of my depth. I haven't had time to do more than play with ARexx a bit. I made up a little test program last night that had CED do a few things, and it didn't flip to the front once I removed the "cedtofront" command. When I flipped to its screen everything was done, but I can't say whether it was updating the screen on the fly. As a guess I'd say it still was; it just feels like the kind of thing that, if I were programming it, I wouldn't think about taking the trouble to suppress - at least until someone complained. :-) It's probably time for me to shut up now. Does anyone out there have any hard facts? Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.UUCP For every vision there is an equal and opposite revision.
tadguy@abcfd01.larc.nasa.gov (Tad Guy) (01/17/91)
swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: > phils@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Philip E Staub) writes: > > > > (global-set-key "\b" 'delete-backward-char) > > (global-set-key "\C-x?" 'help-for-help) > > (global-set-key "\C-H" 'delete-backward-char) Well, while we're posting GNU Emacs hacks to a totally inappropriate group, this is the `snub of the nose' patch to correct the C-h behavior I use. These patches change the help-command and help-for-help bindings to C-\ instead of C-h. Even the documentation is updated... This is mostly Kyle Jone's work, when he and I were at ODU. It was applied to the emacs we placed on the machines we managed there, and it's now being used somewhat at LaRC. The patch is somewhat thorough... :-) ...tad *** /tmp/,RCSt1a25258 Mon Feb 26 15:17:36 1990 --- lisp/userlock.el Mon Feb 26 15:14:27 1990 *************** *** 84,90 **** (save-window-excursion (let (answer) (while (null answer) ! (message "File has changed on disk; really want to edit the buffer? (y, n or C-h) ") (let ((tem (downcase (let ((cursor-in-echo-area t)) (read-char))))) (setq answer --- 84,90 ---- (save-window-excursion (let (answer) (while (null answer) ! (message "File has changed on disk; really want to edit the buffer? (y, n or ?) ") (let ((tem (downcase (let ((cursor-in-echo-area t)) (read-char))))) (setq answer *** /tmp/,RCSt1a25357 Mon Feb 26 15:18:46 1990 --- lisp/help.el Mon Feb 26 15:14:18 1990 *************** *** 22,31 **** (defvar help-map (make-sparse-keymap) "Keymap for characters following the Help key.") ! (define-key global-map "\C-h" 'help-command) (fset 'help-command help-map) ! (define-key help-map "\C-h" 'help-for-help) (define-key help-map "?" 'help-for-help) (define-key help-map "\C-c" 'describe-copying) --- 22,33 ---- (defvar help-map (make-sparse-keymap) "Keymap for characters following the Help key.") ! (setq help-char ?\C-\\) ! ! (define-key global-map "\C-\\" 'help-command) (fset 'help-command help-map) ! (define-key help-map "\C-\\" 'help-for-help) (define-key help-map "?" 'help-for-help) (define-key help-map "\C-c" 'describe-copying) *************** *** 166,172 **** (print-help-return-message))) (defun help-for-help () ! "You have typed C-h, the help character. Type a Help option: A command-apropos. Give a substring, and see a list of commands (functions interactively callable) that contain --- 168,174 ---- (print-help-return-message))) (defun help-for-help () ! "You have typed \\[help-command], the help character. Type a Help option: A command-apropos. Give a substring, and see a list of commands (functions interactively callable) that contain *************** *** 194,208 **** C-w print information on absence of warranty for GNU Emacs." (interactive) (message ! "A B C F I K L M N S T V W C-c C-d C-n C-w. Type C-h again for more help: ") (let ((char (read-char))) ! (if (or (= char ?\C-h) (= char ??)) (save-window-excursion (switch-to-buffer "*Help*") (erase-buffer) (insert (documentation 'help-for-help)) (goto-char (point-min)) ! (while (memq char '(?\C-h ?? ?\C-v ?\ ?\177 ?\M-v)) (if (memq char '(?\C-v ?\ )) (scroll-up)) (if (memq char '(?\177 ?\M-v)) --- 196,211 ---- C-w print information on absence of warranty for GNU Emacs." (interactive) (message ! "A B C F I K L M N S T V W C-c C-d C-n C-w. Type C-\\ again for more help: ") (let ((char (read-char))) ! (if (or (= char help-char) (= char ??)) (save-window-excursion (switch-to-buffer "*Help*") (erase-buffer) (insert (documentation 'help-for-help)) (goto-char (point-min)) ! (while (or (eq char help-char) ! (memq char '(?? ?\C-v ?\ ?\177 ?\M-v))) (if (memq char '(?\C-v ?\ )) (scroll-up)) (if (memq char '(?\177 ?\M-v)) *** /tmp/,RCSt1a25505 Mon Feb 26 15:20:55 1990 --- lisp/startup.el Mon Feb 26 15:20:47 1990 *************** *** 75,80 **** --- 75,84 ---- (defconst initial-major-mode 'lisp-interaction-mode "Major mode command symbol to use for the initial *scratch* buffer.") + (defconst remind-me-of-emacs-help-key t + "*If this variable is non-nil you will be reminded about the help key at + the beginning of every Emacs session.") + (defun normal-top-level () (if command-line-processed (message "Back to top level.") *************** *** 87,93 **** (and term-setup-hook (funcall term-setup-hook)) (and window-setup-hook ! (funcall window-setup-hook))))) (defun command-line () (let ((args (cdr command-line-args)) --- 91,110 ---- (and term-setup-hook (funcall term-setup-hook)) (and window-setup-hook ! (funcall window-setup-hook)) ! (if remind-me-of-emacs-help-key ! ;; ! ;; go to great lengths to keep the reminder up for a few keystrokes. ! ;; ! (let ((message ! (if (eq (key-binding "\C-\\") 'help-command) ! "Type C-\\ (control-backslash) if you need help." ! (substitute-command-keys ! "Type \\[help-command] if you need help."))) ! char) ! (message message) ! (setq unread-command-char (read-char)) ! (message message)))))) (defun command-line () (let ((args (cdr command-line-args)) *************** *** 170,188 **** Copyright (C) 1988 Free Software Foundation, Inc.\n") ;; If keys have their default meanings, ;; use precomputed string to save lots of time. ! (if (and (eq (key-binding "\C-h") 'help-command) (eq (key-binding "\C-xu") 'advertised-undo) ! (eq (key-binding "\C-h\C-c") 'describe-copying) ! (eq (key-binding "\C-h\C-d") 'describe-distribution) ! (eq (key-binding "\C-h\C-w") 'describe-no-warranty) ! (eq (key-binding "\C-ht") 'help-with-tutorial)) (insert ! "Type C-h for help; C-x u to undo changes. (`C-' means use CTRL key.) ! GNU Emacs comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; type C-h C-w for full details. ! You may give out copies of Emacs; type C-h C-c to see the conditions. ! Type C-h C-d for information on getting the latest version. ! Type C-h t for a tutorial on using Emacs.") (insert (substitute-command-keys "Type \\[help-command] for help; \\[advertised-undo] to undo changes. (`C-' means use CTRL key.) --- 187,205 ---- Copyright (C) 1988 Free Software Foundation, Inc.\n") ;; If keys have their default meanings, ;; use precomputed string to save lots of time. ! (if (and (eq (key-binding "\C-\\") 'help-command) (eq (key-binding "\C-xu") 'advertised-undo) ! (eq (key-binding "\C-\\\C-c") 'describe-copying) ! (eq (key-binding "\C-\\\C-d") 'describe-distribution) ! (eq (key-binding "\C-\\\C-w") 'describe-no-warranty) ! (eq (key-binding "\C-\\t") 'help-with-tutorial)) (insert ! "Type C-\\ for help; C-x u to undo changes. (`C-' means use CTRL key.) ! GNU Emacs comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; type C-\\ C-w for full details. ! You may give out copies of Emacs; type C-\\ C-c to see the conditions. ! Type C-\\ C-d for information on getting the latest version. ! Type C-\\ t for a tutorial on using Emacs.") (insert (substitute-command-keys "Type \\[help-command] for help; \\[advertised-undo] to undo changes. (`C-' means use CTRL key.) *** /tmp/,RCSt1a25803 Mon Feb 26 15:25:22 1990 --- etc/emacs.1 Wed Jan 31 14:50:52 1990 *************** *** 24,38 **** but the facility assumes that you know how to manipulate .I Emacs windows and buffers. ! CTRL-h (backspace ! or CTRL-h) enters the Help facility. Help Tutorial (CTRL-h t) requests an interactive tutorial which can teach beginners the fundamentals of .I Emacs in a few minutes. ! Help Apropos (CTRL-h a) helps you ! find a command given its functionality, Help Character (CTRL-h c) ! describes a given character's effect, and Help Function (CTRL-h f) describes a given Lisp function specified by name. .PP .I Emacs's --- 24,38 ---- but the facility assumes that you know how to manipulate .I Emacs windows and buffers. ! CTRL-\\ (control backslash) ! enters the Help facility. Help Tutorial (CTRL-\\ t) requests an interactive tutorial which can teach beginners the fundamentals of .I Emacs in a few minutes. ! Help Apropos (CTRL-\\ a) helps you ! find a command given its functionality, Help Character (CTRL-\\ c) ! describes a given character's effect, and Help Function (CTRL-\\ f) describes a given Lisp function specified by name. .PP .I Emacs's
mwm@raven.relay.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) (01/18/91)
In article <4475@mindlink.UUCP> a218@mindlink.UUCP (Charlie Gibbs) writes: In article <MWM.91Jan16123347@raven.relay.pa.dec.com> mwm@raven.relay.pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) writes: >I did look at it once upon a time. I decided to stay with something >that 1) didn't require lots of arcania to configure, and 2) I had >source to. Actually, there's no arcania at all. For some time I ran with CED straight out of the box. You mean it looks very much like GNU emacs out of the box? If not, then there's arcania involved for me to configure it. Since I started this thing in the first place, I guess I'd better clear up the misconceptions. The only reason the CED screen popped to the front is because the ARexx program had a "screentofront" directive at the beginning. Had I left it out, CED would have quietly done its business in the background. Sorry for not pointing that out. Much more reasonable. Does it try and update it's window while it's in the background, or will the window stay frozen until the macro is through? (There are lots of other things tied into this, like whether the window accepts user commands at that time, etc.). After all, it's not seeing it that's the problem - it's that it takes time out to update the display with information that's of no interest to me. The ability to do that update is a nice feature; the inabaility to turn it off is a bug. <mike -- I went down to the hiring fair, Mike Meyer For to sell my labor. mwm@pa.dec.com I noticed a maid in the very next row, decwrl!mwm I hoped she'd be my neighbor.
limonce@pilot.njin.net (Tom Limoncelli) (01/18/91)
CED's default commands are all pull-down menus. Also in the defaults are Amiga-key + letter mappings for people that don't like pull-down menus. You can map any key to any function. This includes a key and any modifier (i.e. left-shift-right-alt-Q can be "save file" if you want). In fact, you can have multiple keys (^X^S can be "write to file"). Therefore, you can use all the CTRL keys to map Emacs functions. In fact, they have a sample file that you can load that gives you almost complete mg2 emulation. That's what I use. I can type Emacs commands all day and when I "accidentally" use a native CED key (like AMIGA-Q) it works also :-). Tom Disclaimer: I do not work for ASDG or CygnusSoft though I know Perry and have met much of the crew. -- tlimonce@drew.edu Tom Limoncelli "Flash! Flash! I love you! tlimonce@drew.bitnet +1 201 408 5389 ...but we only have fourteen tlimonce@drew.uucp limonce@pilot.njin.net hours to save the earth!"
dales@teksce.SCE.TEK.COM (Dale Snell) (01/22/91)
In article <1991Jan10.010629.6752@unicorn.cc.wwu.edu> n8735053@unicorn.cc.wwu.edu (Iain Davidson) writes: |Is there an Emacs (or MicroEmacs) for the Amiga 1000 ? | |If so, where could I find such a beast? | There are three MicroEMACSes that I know of for the Amiga. The first is the one that comes on your Extras disk. Another is Daniel Lawrence's, and the third is mg (formerly MicroGnuEmacs). Both C='s and Dan Lawrence's programs are based on Dave Conroy's work, if I'm not mistaken. mg is based on GNU EMACS. I'm not sure where you'd find 'em all now. ab20 would probably be a good place to start looking. Right now I'm using Dan Lawrence's (v3.10), since I have it compiled on my Amiga at home, and the Sun 3 at work. It's very nice being able to use the same editor both places. Hope this helps... --dds Big Whorls Have Little Whorls | Dale D. Snell BIX: ddsnell Which Feed On Their Velocity | Usenet: dales@teksce.SCE.TEK.COM And Little Whorls have Littler Whorls | CServe: 74756.666@compuserve.COM And So On To Viscosity. | Disclaimer: My opinions. Not Tek's.