ianr@felix.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Ian ROWLANDS) (01/31/91)
In article <1991Jan29.220936.21595@cbnewsk.att.com> paulb@cbnewsk.att.com (paul.l.bidwell) writes: >As a new Amiga user, I would welcome information about what programs are >recommended for backing up hard disks to floppies. > >If there are good PD programs, that would be good enough for me. I've personally used 3 programs, 2 are PD and 1 commercial. 1. MRBackup. This is PD, and is the only one of the three to give you the option of compression. It's a bit slow (especially when doing compression) and I've never had to restore from it. Just be careful of which version you get - I believe one or two of the older ones are time bombs! (although if you get the very latest one, it's sure to be ok). Available on one of the FIsh disks. 2. KwikBackup. This is shareware, and is quite good. Doesn't do compression, save file attributes or the dates of files. It does a good job for just saving the data, and I have restored from its backup disks. Available on a Fish disk. 3. Quarterback. This is a commercial product, and is highly recommended as the best commercial backup program. It is similar to KwikBackup, but it is faster, more poilshed and does most of the things that KwikBackup doesn't (except compression). It has a lot of nice options, and hasn't failed me when it counts (my hard disk has died once, and I also sold another hard disk). I believe it prices for $90US, but you may do better. I can't recommend it enough, if you're willing to buy a commercial product. Available from most dealers (it's a very popular program). Anyway, I hope this is useful to others. Also, I hope this is the type of thing that belongs in this group. Ian > >Paul Bidwell >email: p.l.bidwell@att.com Ian Rowlands | Uni : ianr@ee.mu.oz.au Dept. of Electrical Engineering, | OR ..!uunet!mullian.ee.mu.oz.au!ianr (including Computer Science) | Home : ianr@gpark.pub.uu.oz.au University of Melbourne | OR ..!uunet!gpark.pub.uu.oz.au!ianr
wak@hpfcbig.SDE.HP.COM (Bill Kwinn) (02/01/91)
> As a new Amiga user, I would welcome information about what programs are > recommended for backing up hard disks to floppies. I use Quarterback, from Central Coast Software. It has full and incremental backups, can use 2 floppy drives, claims to be able to use the newer high density ones (but both drives it uses must be same density). Data to the floppies is in its own format, and is not compressed. It painlessly restored my whole disc after a crash. Bill Kwinn
mwm@pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) (02/01/91)
In article <6572@munnari.oz.au> ianr@felix.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Ian ROWLANDS) writes:
3. Quarterback. This is a commercial product, and is highly recommended as
the best commercial backup program.
I have religious problems with QuarterBack. It creates it's own format
file system on floppies. This means I have to have to use QB to do
restores. This creates two problems: 1) I can't back up QB with QB; 2)
to recover a single file, I have to start QB.
For these reasons I chose ExpressCopy over QB. XCO creates either OFS
or FFS format on floppies. It's as fast as QB (give or take a few
percent), and has the nice intuition interface. It creates a list of
the disks, including modes, sizes & dates. A search (well, grep) on
that file turns up the floppy number it's on, and a copy command gets
it back.
Other advantages include saving links (under 2.0) as links, and the
ability to run backups from the CLI, which means it can be run from a
script.
Finally, XCO has an ARexx interface. It comes with a CanDo deck to
talk to that interface, giving a finer control over the backups than
the intuition interface (you don't need ARexx to use this). It also
allows saving a Rexx script to run this set of backups in the future.
The CanDo program comes with the deck so you can change it, or linked
with the deckbrowser so you can run it without having CanDo.
<mike
--
That time we slept together Mike Meyer
That's as far as it went mwm@pa.dec.com
Yet though we're not quite lovers decwrl!mwm
You're more than a friendpcooper@eecs.wsu.edu (Phil Cooper - CS495) (02/02/91)
In article <MWM.91Jan31121433@raven.pa.dec.com> mwm@pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) writes: >In article <6572@munnari.oz.au> ianr@felix.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Ian ROWLANDS) writes: > > 3. Quarterback. This is a commercial product, and is highly recommended as > the best commercial backup program. > >I have religious problems with QuarterBack. It creates it's own format >file system on floppies. This means I have to have to use QB to do >restores. This creates two problems: 1) I can't back up QB with QB; 2) >to recover a single file, I have to start QB. > >For these reasons I chose ExpressCopy over QB. XCO creates either OFS >or FFS format on floppies. It's as fast as QB (give or take a few >percent), and has the nice intuition interface. It creates a list of >the disks, including modes, sizes & dates. A search (well, grep) on >that file turns up the floppy number it's on, and a copy command gets >it back. > One word of caution in regards to ExpressCopy. It claims to allow you to use unformatted diskettes in the backup process (formatting on the fly), however I have found that it creates hard errors on floppies about 25% of the time. I mean, if a backup takes 20 disks to do, you can count on it destroying 5 disks. If the disks are pre-formatted, this problem does not occur. I use Expresscopy myself, and I like it very much, but be SURE to format your disks ahead of time! -Phil-
zerkle@iris.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle) (02/02/91)
In article <6572@munnari.oz.au> ianr@ee.mu.OZ.AU (Ian ROWLANDS) writes: > Anyway, I hope this is useful to others. Also, I hope this is the >type of thing that belongs in this group. That was EXACTLY the sort of thing that belongs in this group. In fact, it is one of the few posts that really do belong here. Good job! Dan Zerkle zerkle@iris.eecs.ucdavis.edu (916) 754-0240 Amiga... Because life is too short for boring computers.
Walt@orbit.Amiga.OCUnix.On.Ca (Walt Sullivan) (02/02/91)
>In article <MWM.91Jan31121433@raven.pa.dec.com> mwm@pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) writes: > >For these reasons I chose ExpressCopy over QB. XCO creates either OFS >or FFS format on floppies. It's as fast as QB (give or take a few >percent), and has the nice intuition interface. It creates a list of >the disks, including modes, sizes & dates. A search (well, grep) on >that file turns up the floppy number it's on, and a copy command gets >it back. > (List of other advantages, including ARexx interface deleted) Can ExpressCopy restore the 2nd version of a file that was protected -WD both times it was saved? If so, I'll glady buy one. I'm looking for a HD backup package that can handle the following test: echo >A.File "First version" protect A.File -wd (backup A.File (BACKUP 1)) protect A.File +wd echo >>A.File "Additional version" protect A.File -wd (backup A.File (BACKUP 2)) protect A.File +wd delete A.File (Restore BACKUP 1) (Restore BACKUP 2) (should not complain!) type A.File (Should have both lines) list A.File (should be protected -WD) Thanks, -- Walt Sullivan walt@orbit.Amiga.OCUnix.On.Ca Fido 1:163/109.4 None of what I say is what my employer says, ever! Am I still confused if I'm not, but only THINK I'm confused?
mwm@pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) (02/05/91)
In article <1991Feb02.090750.19009@eecs.wsu.edu> pcooper@eecs.wsu.edu (Phil Cooper - CS495) writes:
One word of caution in regards to ExpressCopy. It claims to allow
you to use unformatted diskettes in the backup process (formatting on the
fly), however I have found that it creates hard errors on floppies about
25% of the time.
I've never had any problem with it. And yes, I use that option and
feed it floppies fresh out of the box. I also only create OFS
floppies.
There was a problem with FFS floppies in XCO before version 1.5 or
thereabouts. Have you been using FFS? And do you have the latest
version (1.55, as of last weekend)?
<mike
--
I know the world is flat. Mike Meyer
Don't try tell me that it's round. mwm@pa.dec.com
I know the world stands still. decwrl!mwm
Don't try to make it turn around.mwm@pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) (02/06/91)
In article <Walt.2706@orbit.Amiga.OCUnix.On.Ca> Walt@orbit.Amiga.OCUnix.On.Ca (Walt Sullivan) writes:
(List of other advantages, including ARexx interface deleted)
Can ExpressCopy restore the 2nd version of a file that was protected -WD
both times it was saved? If so, I'll glady buy one.
No, it can't. I'll nudge the author about it tonight, though...
<mike
--
He was your reason for living Mike Meyer
So you once said mwm@pa.dec.com
Now your reason for living decwrl!mwm
Has left you half deadcseaman@sequent.UUCP (Chris "The Bartman" Seaman) (02/06/91)
mwm@pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) writes:
< I have religious problems with QuarterBack. It creates it's own format
< file system on floppies. This means I have to have to use QB to do
< restores. This creates two problems: 1) I can't back up QB with QB; 2)
< to recover a single file, I have to start QB.
Not to start a flame war (which would warrant moving this thread to
.advocacy), but as a Quarterback user, I have never experienced
problem #1, and feel problem #2 is a blessing, rather than a problem.
I regularly back up QB (it sits in the UTIL directory on my hard disk),
and have never had a complaint from it. Granted, You can't RESTORE
from the copy that was on your hard disk in the event of a crash,
but hey, who could? I just keep ONE working floppy with QB on
it for emergencies.
As to problem #2, when I want to restore a file, I simply fire up
QB (takes all of two seconds), and select the file I want, at which
point QB tells me which floppy disk(s) to insert, and I'm done.
Don't get me wrong. It sounds as though ExpressCopy has a lot going
for it, especially with the CLI and Arexx interfaces (for people lucky
enough to have a tape drive or removable disk cartridge for their
backups :-( ).
Question: Does CCS have a version of QB that is 2.0 compatible?
Regards,
Chris
--
Chris (Insert phrase here) Seaman | ___-/^\-___
cseaman@gateway.sequent.com <or> | //__--\O/--__\\ nI' yIyIn 'ej yIchep.
...!uunet!sequent!cseaman | // \\
The Home of the Killer Smiley | `\ /'mwm@pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) (02/07/91)
In article <52410@sequent.UUCP> cseaman@sequent.UUCP (Chris "The Bartman" Seaman) writes: mwm@pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) writes: < I have religious problems with QuarterBack. It creates it's own format < file system on floppies. This means I have to have to use QB to do < restores. This creates two problems: 1) I can't back up QB with QB; 2) < to recover a single file, I have to start QB. I regularly back up QB (it sits in the UTIL directory on my hard disk), and have never had a complaint from it. Granted, You can't RESTORE from the copy that was on your hard disk in the event of a crash, but hey, who could? I just keep ONE working floppy with QB on it for emergencies. That's exactly what I meant. A backup of QB via QB is worthless - you have to have a copy of QB somewhere else. That makes a working copy of QB as critical as a working workbench disk. With XCO, I can restore XCR (the restore half of XCO) from the copy that was backed up on my hard disk. So I only have one incredibly critical floppy - the workbench floppy. With QB, you need a QB floppy as well. As to problem #2, when I want to restore a file, I simply fire up QB (takes all of two seconds), and select the file I want, at which point QB tells me which floppy disk(s) to insert, and I'm done. I've heard a little about QB's intuitionized recovery system. It sounds nice, but as a CLI user, I find doing a quick "grep" on the list files to get disk numbers, then copying the files to where I want them (which may or may not be where it came from) to be quite simple. If I ever decide I want that inuitionized interface, I'll write a CanDo app to do it for XCO. In addition, I can grab an XCO backup of something to move it to someone else's machine; I don't need to worry about whether or not they've got XCO on the other end. Like I said - it's mostly a religious thing. I want backups in a format that is readable by standard utilities shipped with _all_ systems. If 2.0 ships with an HD backup utility, that format will (eventually) be acceptable to me. Until then, it's got to be OFS format floppies (FFS on floppies doesn't cut it yet - and may not afterwards, depending on how well they recover from errors). <mike -- Tell me how d'you get to be Mike Meyer As beautiful as that? mwm@pa.dec.com How did you get your mind decwrl!mwm To tilt like your hat?
pcooper@eecs.wsu.edu (Phil Cooper - CS495) (02/07/91)
In article <MWM.91Feb4104909@raven.pa.dec.com> mwm@pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) writes: >In article <1991Feb02.090750.19009@eecs.wsu.edu> pcooper@eecs.wsu.edu (Phil Cooper - CS495) writes: > One word of caution in regards to ExpressCopy. It claims to allow > you to use unformatted diskettes in the backup process (formatting on the > fly), however I have found that it creates hard errors on floppies about > 25% of the time. > >I've never had any problem with it. And yes, I use that option and >feed it floppies fresh out of the box. I also only create OFS >floppies. > >There was a problem with FFS floppies in XCO before version 1.5 or >thereabouts. Have you been using FFS? And do you have the latest >version (1.55, as of last weekend)? > > <mike Wow, am I out of date! I am using XCO V1.17 which seems pretty old compared to the newest version. However, I received XCO for free when I bought my Supra HD controller and Quantum HD. That was only about 4 months ago, so the version bundled must have been old when I got it. And, yes, I am only creating OFS disks. Any info on upgrades? Phil Cooper
mwm@pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) (02/07/91)
[I think it's past time this moved out of .introduction, so I've pointed it to .applications - mwm] Speak of the devil - there were no fewer than _three_ demo backup programs in the latest round of fish disks (all on #447). A quick summary: Back-Pac: the loser of the bunch. Doesn't support multi-drive backups at all. Doesn't rate well in the "looks" department, either. ami-back: second place. It does multi-drive backups, but throws away that advantage by not prompting you for the disk until it's ready to start writing. Might be actually let you swap disks before hand, but I want the prompt. Requires 2.0, and runs on the WB. FlashBack: the most professional of the bunch. Pretty graphics, does multi-disk backups mostly right (it checks them when it wants to write on them, not after you've inserted them!). All three write a proprietary format on the disks, so I won't use them for religious reasons. A note on the multi-drive writes. That's one of the features that (to me) separates an amateur backup program from a professional one. Done right, the backup program asks for a drive, gets it & otherwise prepares it for the backup while the actual backup is happening on the other drive(s). This means the backup can run continuously, without pausing for humans to do things. I think it's an important thing to get right. Final comment on XCO: the author promises me that restoring write/delete-protected files will work "correctly" in the next upgrade (as opposed to bug fix). <mike -- Don't tell me how to live my life Mike Meyer Don't tell me what to do mwm@pa.dec.com Repression is always brought about decwrl!mwm by people with politics and attitudes like you.
bjornmu@idt.unit.no (Bj|rn P. Munch) (02/08/91)
In article <MWM.91Feb6104939@raven.pa.dec.com>, mwm@pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) writes: |> |> [.......] |> |> That's exactly what I meant. A backup of QB via QB is worthless - you |> have to have a copy of QB somewhere else. That makes a working copy of |> QB as critical as a working workbench disk. With XCO, I can restore |> XCR (the restore half of XCO) from the copy that was backed up on my |> hard disk. So I only have one incredibly critical floppy - the |> workbench floppy. With QB, you need a QB floppy as well. |> All you need is a copy of QB on your WB disk. I have made myself an "emergency" WB floppy which contains the most essential things for surviving a HD crash (or reformatting). Those include Prep, format, an editor and (you guessed it) QB. Should *that* also fail, I still have the original QB disk. It shouldn't have to be any problem, really. --- Bj|rn P. Munch | Div. of Comp. Science & Telematics, bjornmu@idt.unit.no | Norwegian Institute of Technology (NTH), PhD Student | Trondheim, Norway (some filler words here) | You can finger me @jod.idt.unit.no
mwm@pa.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) (02/08/91)
[Note followups are being sent to .applications.]
In article <1991Feb06.222839.4617@eecs.wsu.edu> pcooper@eecs.wsu.edu (Phil Cooper - CS495) writes:
Wow, am I out of date! I am using XCO V1.17 which seems pretty old
compared to the newest version. However, I received XCO for free when I
bought my Supra HD controller and Quantum HD. That was only about 4 months
ago, so the version bundled must have been old when I got it. And, yes,
I am only creating OFS disks.
Any info on upgrades?
I'm answering this on the net, because ExpressWay has provided me with
_excellent_ support, and that's an imporant part of a commercial
product.
Anyway, I upgraded from the old version from Supra by calling
ExpressWay and asking about it. They required me to send the original
disk and a $12 upgrade fee. A new disk & manual came back in the mail.
There was a minor bug when running under 2.0, caused by changes in the
OS between 1.3 & 2.0. After verifying that it was not fixed in the new
release, and that it wasn't intentional, and ExpressWay verifying that
the 2.0 change was intentional, I downloaded a new version from the
ExpressWay BBS.
I'd recommend calling them. The number is (314) 474 2984. After hours,
that's a BBS number. You can reach them as 75115,444 on CompuServe,
or as expressway on either PeopleLink or BIX.
<mike
--
He was your reason for living Mike Meyer
So you once said mwm@pa.dec.com
Now your reason for living decwrl!mwm
Has left you half deadnikolai@guru.pub.uu.oz.au (nikolai kingsley) (02/13/91)
> > 1. MRBackup. This is PD, and is the only one of the three to give you the > > 2. KwikBackup. This is shareware, and is quite good. Doesn't do compression, > > 3. Quarterback. This is a commercial product, and is highly recommended as th > > Anyway, I hope this is useful to others. Also, I hope this is the > type of thing that belongs in this group. > > Ian you left out two: the amigados COPY command (slow, but you can be sure that you won't have any trouble uncompressing them unlike MRbackup! SDbackup, by steve drew. this is PD, but i can't remember where i got it. it runs from the CLI or Shell, though... WIMPS need not apply. kolya