halvard@solan.unit.no (Halvard Halvorsen) (02/15/91)
Does anyone know the reason why C= went for OpenWindows ? I mean - this is the Sun supported GUI - while Motif are supported by IBM,DEC,HP etc. Why did C= settle for OpenWindows - or maybe they didn't ?? Does anybody know ?? Halvard =8-)
jac@gandalf.llnl.gov (James A. Crotinger) (02/15/91)
halvard@solan.unit.no (Halvard Halvorsen) writes: > Does anyone know the reason why C= went for OpenWindows ? > I mean - this is the Sun supported GUI - while Motif You are correct that OpenWindows IS a Sun product, but that is not, I believe, what the A3000UX comes with. I believe it comes with AT&T's implementation of the OPEN LOOK GUI, which was jointly developed by AT&T and Sun, and is a part of SVR4. I don't know what all this includes, and I would very much like to see a posting describing it in more detail; e.g., is there a filemgr, which is specified as part of the OPEN LOOK GUI standard? Sun's OpenWindows product supplies this as well as many other "deskset tools". Also, are there any plans to port Sun's xnews? XView? All of the screen shots I've see show the "2D" version of OPEN LOOK, not the 3D version which most people with color (at least most Sun users around here) prefer. Hasn't AT&T gotten 3D support into OLIT yet? > are supported by IBM,DEC,HP etc. > Why did C= settle for OpenWindows - or maybe they didn't ?? ^^^^^^ Is there an implication here that Motif would, in some way, be better? I'll guarantee you'll get a lot of of disagreement on that one. (Serious religious war material here, kind of like the Mac vs. Amiga Intuition vs. Windows debate.) As for IBM, ...., using Motif, we might as all switch back to MS-DOS as it is the clear winner in number of installed sites. (Ack!). Just because it is most popular don't mean it's best (as all Amigans know!). > Does anybody know ?? No, but I'm glad they did. I hope they'll port xnews and XView too. > Halvard =8-) Jim -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- James A. Crotinger Lawrence Livermore Nat'l Lab // The above views jac@gandalf.llnl.gov P.O. Box 808; L-630 \\ // are mine and are not (415) 422-0259 Livermore CA 94550 \\/ necessarily those of LLNL.
cpetterb@es.com (Cary Petterborg) (02/16/91)
In article <jac.666602287@sundance> jac@gandalf.llnl.gov (James A. Crotinger) writes: > halvard@solan.unit.no (Halvard Halvorsen) writes: > > > Does anyone know the reason why C= went for OpenWindows ? > > I mean - this is the Sun supported GUI - while Motif > > You are correct that OpenWindows IS a Sun product, but that is not, > I believe, what the A3000UX comes with. I believe it comes with AT&T's > implementation of the OPEN LOOK GUI, which was jointly developed by > AT&T and Sun, and is a part of SVR4. I don't know what all this > includes, and I would very much like to see a posting describing it in > more detail; e.g., is there a filemgr, which is specified as part of > the OPEN LOOK GUI standard? Sun's OpenWindows product supplies this as > well as many other "deskset tools". Also, are there any plans to port > Sun's xnews? XView? All of the screen shots I've see show the "2D" > version of OPEN LOOK, not the 3D version which most people with color > (at least most Sun users around here) prefer. Hasn't AT&T gotten 3D > support into OLIT yet? > > > are supported by IBM,DEC,HP etc. > > Why did C= settle for OpenWindows - or maybe they didn't ?? > ^^^^^^ > Is there an implication here that Motif would, in some > way, be better? I'll guarantee you'll get a lot of of disagreement on > that one. (Serious religious war material here, kind of like the Mac > vs. Amiga Intuition vs. Windows debate.) As for IBM, ...., using > Motif, we might as all switch back to MS-DOS as it is the clear winner > in number of installed sites. (Ack!). Just because it is most popular > don't mean it's best (as all Amigans know!). DITTO! I prefer OpenLook to Motif (and I use Motif all day everyday on my workstation at work, so I do know what I am talking about). I just wish people understood that Motif being supported by vendors doesn't mean it's better. On the contrary, being supported by most vendors just means that somebody big (like IBM, OSF, etc) settled for something (often for political reasons) and all the sheep lined up behind them because they worship the dung littered ground they walk on. Oops, I forgot to :-|. Note no :-). > > > Does anybody know ?? > > No, but I'm glad they did. I hope they'll port xnews and XView too. Ditto, again. MANY applications are being ported from Sunview to the XView toolkit. It's then a short hop to porting it to Amiga UNIX (68000 based ABI for SVR4 anyway). I'd like to have access to all the Sunview applications! > > > Halvard =8-) > > Jim > Just One Man's Warped Opionion of Things!! :-) Cary -- _______________ Cary Petterborg (801)582-5847 x6446 Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp. Simulation Division SLC, UT 84108 USENET: utah-cs!esunix!cpetterb INTERNET: cpetterb@esunix.es.com
aspgpas@cidsv01.cid.aes.doe.CA (Peter Silva) (02/16/91)
I don't know about Commodore specifically. But For those of you who are unitiated in the UNIX standards wars... There are two camps OSF -- Open Software Foundation Big Blue, HP, Apollo, etc... love this. Kernel based on Mach (from CMU), Motif GUI. They call their unix OSF-x (starting at 1) Unix International AT&T, Sun, and other hangers on. Kernel is SVR4, GUI is Open Look. they call they unix UNIX System V Release x (starting at 4) OSF-1 has only been available to developers for a couple of months, while SVR4 has been around for a good 2 years. It is more stable, etc... Commodore is just following the "standards" of the Unix International group. It seems to be the appropriate thing to do. -- Peter Silva OS Support psilva@cid.aes.doe.ca Dorval Computing Centre (514) 421-4692 Atmospheric Environment Service
jet@karazm.math.uh.edu ("J. Eric Townsend") (02/17/91)
In article <1991Feb14.211546.21222@ugle.unit.no> halvard@solan.unit.no (Halvard Halvorsen) writes: >Does anyone know the reason why C= went for OpenWindows ? >I mean - this is the Sun supported GUI - while Motif >are supported by IBM,DEC,HP etc. >Why did C= settle for OpenWindows - or maybe they didn't ?? It's simple: because Motif sucks big time. We have Sun-2s running OpenLook and RS/6000s running Motif. With the exception of one of the people who paid for an RS/6000, our entire department likes OL *much* better. So there, nyah. (Follow-ups to alt.religion.computers...) -- J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2120 Skate UNIX or bleed, boyo... (UNIX is a trademark of Bell Laboratories).
gerry@dialogic.com (Gerry Lachac) (02/17/91)
In article <1991Feb15.235403.12606@cid.aes.doe.CA> aspgpas@cidsv01.cid.aes.doe.CA (Peter Silva) writes: >I don't know about Commodore specifically. But For those of you >who are unitiated in the UNIX standards wars... There are two camps > >OSF -- Open Software Foundation The Motif Camp >Unix International The OpenLook/Windows Camp But unfortunately, the GUI crosses over this boundary. For instance, Interactive, SCO, ESIX and the other 386-box UNIX SysV3 vendors supply the Motif widgets and toolkits for their System V Release 3 products. I see no reason why they won't do that for their Release 4 versions (I haven't seen their Rel 4 offerings yet). I believe OpenLook/Windows is provided by AT&T as part of the standard Release 4 package to their licensees (ie CBM, SCO, Sun, etc), and it up to the licensee to provide it. As a side note, most of the commercial products I've seen at trade shows seem to use the Motif widgets rather than the OpenLook widgets.
lars@iclswe.icl.se (Lars Tunkrans) (02/17/91)
halvard@solan.unit.no (Halvard Halvorsen) writes: >Does anyone know the reason why C= went for OpenWindows ? >I mean - this is the Sun supported GUI - while Motif >are supported by IBM,DEC,HP etc. >Why did C= settle for OpenWindows - or maybe they didn't ?? >Does anybody know ?? Open Look is the GUI in the SVR4 package. This is because of the AT&T - SUN connections. Last I heard there were about 100 English language applications available for Open Look, ( dont ask me for the names of these apps. ask SUN ) and only a dozenful available for Motif. This was now some months ago. As far as I know Motif has not yet been ported to SVR4. Lars. --
mls@cbnewsm.att.com (mike.siemon) (02/18/91)
In article <1991Feb17.130425.27667@iclswe.icl.se>, lars@iclswe.icl.se (Lars Tunkrans) writes: > As far as I know Motif has not yet been ported to SVR4. Well, I don't know if anyone is selling binaries for Motif on SVR4, but it is not a big deal to "port" the source -- there are minor makefile and compile glitches that are not hard to work out. However, Motif is (a) bigger (b) slower and (c) less functional[*] than the equivalent (i.e. OLIT, based on Xt) OPEN LOOK toolkit. (I have no idea how it would compare to XView on the same hardware.) ------ [*] this is partly a matter of definition -- Motif *does* have more convenience functions and more ready-to-use widget pieces than OLIT; however, there is no component corresponding to the OPEN LOOK workspace and file managers (plus a few other utility kinds of functions that tend to come with any OPEN LOOK implementation. -- Michael L. Siemon "O stand, stand at the window, m.siemon@ATT.COM As the tears scald and start; ...!att!attunix!mls You shall love your crooked neighbor standard disclaimer With your crooked heart."
jet@karazm.math.uh.edu ("J. Eric Townsend") (02/18/91)
In article <1991Feb17.224556.26157@cbnewsm.att.com> mls@cbnewsm.att.com (mike.siemon) writes: >However, Motif is (a) bigger (b) slower and (c) less functional[*] than the I thought the biggest reason to spurn Motif was the "licensing fee" that you're supposed to pay for each machine/terminal using Motif as its UI. OpenLook is free, of course... (I still like Intuition more than either one, but that's another battle... :-) -- J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2120 Skate UNIX or bleed, boyo... (UNIX is a trademark of Bell Laboratories).
guy@auspex.auspex.com (Guy Harris) (02/20/91)
>I thought the biggest reason to spurn Motif was the "licensing fee" that >you're supposed to pay for each machine/terminal using Motif as its >UI. OpenLook is free, of course... Well, one *implementation* of OPEN LOOK, namely the XView toolkit and the Crucible/Sun "olwm" window manager, is free. I know of no free implementation of the OL "file manager" functionality, and as far as I know AT&T's window manager and OLIT tookit aren't free; somebody may, for whatever reason, want an Xt-based toolkit, and XView isn't one.