jtanner@jack.sns.com (Jason Tanner) (03/10/91)
A friend told me it is possible to run UNIX (Sys V) On an Amiga 500 since it uses a 68000 processor like an AT&t Unix-PC. This is an exciting prospect! Is this true? If so what company manufactures it? -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- | I'M THE LIZARD KING! | I CAN DO ANYTHING! | jtanner@jack.sns.com | |---------------------------|--------------------|---------------------------| | I was bourne to use UNIX! | Coke IS it! | Ask me, I don't work here|
tbissett@nstar.rn.com (Travis Bissett) (03/11/91)
jtanner@jack.sns.com (Jason Tanner) writes: > A friend told me it is possible to run UNIX (Sys V) On an Amiga 500 since > it uses a 68000 processor like an AT&t Unix-PC. This is an exciting prospect > Is this true? If so what company manufactures it? > -- The way I hear it, SVr4 requires and Amiga with a 68020 and enough ram -- the 68000 will not support SVr4. There are probably versions of Unix, some no doubt a flavor of System V, that'll run on a 68000 machine with hard drive. Dale Luck was rumored to have one when he was developing X-Windows for the Amiga. Perhaps a SunOS from 1982 could be hacked onto an A500? Whatever, you and I and your friend can't get such things since these were never commercially released. I believe Minix is available, and maybe OS/9 -- but why would your friend want them? What application is available for these bloated, slow operating systems that AmigaDOS can't do better and faster and a lot cheaper? -- Travis Bissett NSTAR conferencing site 219-289-0287 internet: tbissett@nstar.rn.com 1300 newsgroups - 8 inbound lines uucp: ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!tbissett 99 file areas - 4300 megabytes --- backbone news & mail feeds available - contact larry@nstar.rn.com ---
dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave P. Schaumann) (03/11/91)
In article <1991Mar9.231842.20395@jack.sns.com> jtanner@jack.sns.com (Jason Tanner) writes: > A friend told me it is possible to run UNIX (Sys V) On an Amiga 500 since >it uses a 68000 processor like an AT&t Unix-PC. This is an exciting prospect! >Is this true? If so what company manufactures it? Since the 68000 doesn't have an MMU, it seems unlikely in the extreme that UNIX will be available for an unmodified 500. However, an A500 w/a 68030 processor card should have no problem. You'd almost certainly want one anyway, just for the enhanced performance. Remember that a stock 500 is clocked at 7Mhz... -- Dave Schaumann | dave@cs.arizona.edu | Short .sig's rule!
thad@public.BTR.COM (Thaddeus P. Floryan) (03/11/91)
In article <1991Mar9.231842.20395@jack.sns.com> jtanner@jack.sns.com (Jason Tanner) writes: > A friend told me it is possible to run UNIX (Sys V) On an Amiga 500 since >it uses a 68000 processor like an AT&t Unix-PC. This is an exciting prospect! >Is this true? If so what company manufactures it? The AT&T UNIX-PC (aka 3B1) sports a 68010 and a custom MMU. Unlike the beliefs of those who watch Disney movies, wishing for something will not automagically make it happen! :-) You may be able to run a Minix port on the A500, but Minix is a far cry from the SVR4 which CBM is offering on the A3000UX systems. Back in the 3B1's heyday (1985-1987), the small systems were selling for around $6,000 and the larger ones for around $9,000. In the latter part of 1987, the model was discontinued by AT&T and the prices dropped dramatically to where the large systems were around $2,000 (with full warranties, etc.) Software for the 3B1 is upwards compatible to UNISYS' 68040-systems (UNISYS, formerly Convergent Technologies, was the OEM for AT&T of the 3B1). If you want an inexpensive UNIX (albeit SVR2+ with some SVR3 features), suggest you check out the comp.sys.3b1 newsgroup where many full-featured 3B1 systems can be found for reasonable prices. Many college students are grabbing these systems ASAP, and even many members of the AT&T Silicon Valley UNIX Users' Group have these models. Brand new ones are still available (see comp.sys.3b1 ref: Computing Horizons), and if you browse the 3B1 archives (uunet, osu-cis, etc.) you'll find software contributed by some people presently on the Amiga SVR4 port team! :-) Thad P.S. Not all sites are receiving comp.sys.3b1 yet, so also look for the presence of the unix-pc.* newsgroups at your site if you're still interested Thad Floryan [ thad@btr.com (OR) {decwrl, mips, fernwood}!btr!thad ]
rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) (03/13/91)
In article <1991Mar9.231842.20395@jack.sns.com> jtanner@jack.sns.com (Jason Tanner) writes: > A friend told me it is possible to run UNIX (Sys V) On an Amiga 500 since >it uses a 68000 processor like an AT&t Unix-PC. This is an exciting prospect! >Is this true? If so what company manufactures it? The only available UNIX for the Amiga is SYS V Release 4. It requires hardware memory management, which the 500 does not have. If you want UNIX on your Amiga, you will have to upgrade. Rick Kelly rmk@rmkhome.UUCP frog!rmkhome!rmk rmk@frog.UUCP
bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche) (03/16/91)
In <1991Mar9.231842.20395@jack.sns.com> jtanner@jack.sns.com (Jason Tanner) writes: > A friend told me it is possible to run UNIX (Sys V) On an Amiga 500 since >it uses a 68000 processor like an AT&t Unix-PC. This is an exciting prospect! >Is this true? If so what company manufactures it? The real "magic" you'll need is an MMU! The AT&T UNIX-PC (aka 3b1, aka PC 7300(?)) had a simple memory protection circuit which prevented writes to the lowest 4 locations of memory (if I recall correctly) after reboot. There was no other hardware memory protection. Also, *ALL* the device drivers will need to be re-written, a somewhat ominous task. Not to mention the price of the System V source code. I suggest that you look at Minix instead. It's not SysV. Given enough time and money, you can get UNIX to run on almost as many hardware platforms as Oracle. -- Bernd Felsche, _--_|\ #include <std/disclaimer.h> Metapro Systems, / sale \ Fax: +61 9 472 3337 328 Albany Highway, \_.--._/ Phone: +61 9 362 9355 Victoria Park, Western Australia v Email: bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au
jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) (03/17/91)
In article <2081@public.BTR.COM>, thad@public (Thaddeus P. Floryan) writes: >You may be able to run a Minix port on the A500, but Minix is a far cry from >the SVR4 which CBM is offering on the A3000UX systems. I think Minix is quite a nice system for the price and especially considering you get source. I'm running Minix and tools like gcc, g++, groff, GNU emacs, GNU fileutils, GNU binutils, gdb etc. on top of it. Well, I'm not running these on an Amiga currently but I'm planning to get Minix with most of these (only 1 Meg of memory limits) running on my Amiga 1000. I recompiled the kernel with 62-char file names, 'cause USG-style 14-char filenames cause trouble. I also have many other enhancements to the kernel, like a priority-based scheduler, some added system calls, many constants bumped up from the normal distribution etc. The major pain with Minix is the single-tasking filesystem - if several processes are trying to access the disk at the same time, the performance degrades terribly. For example with a big cache when the machine does a sync the system just aboud grinds to a halt for a while. Lack of TCP/IP might also be considered a big minus for some, but I haven't yet needed it that much. I hear 1.6 will have TCP/IP, but I'm not sure if it will have Berkeley-style socket library. By the way, I'm also looking for an OS to my Amiga 1000. Requirements: source code available, freely distributable, should be able to port X to it with not that much rewriting of X. Mach would be otherwise fine but I don't think it'll be very happy without a MMU. Amiga's native OS is quite nice, yes, but the source is not available. Maybe I should just rewrite it from scratch like ast did for Minix ;-). //Jyrki
jet@karazm.math.uh.edu ("J. Eric Townsend") (03/17/91)
In <1991Mar9.231842.20395@jack.sns.com> jtanner@jack.sns.com (Jason Tanner) writes: > A friend told me it is possible to run UNIX (Sys V) On an Amiga 500 since >it uses a 68000 processor like an AT&t Unix-PC. This is an exciting prospect! >Is this true? If so what company manufactures it? Unix-PCs (aka 3b1's and 7300's) had a 68010, not a 68000. There's a big difference. The 3b1 also had memory protection (to the point that if you want to direct-write into graphics memory you have to do a hardware hack). -- J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2120 Skate UNIX or bleed, boyo... (UNIX is a trademark of Bell Laboratories).
rbabel@babylon.rmt.sub.org (Ralph Babel) (03/17/91)
In article <8772@gollum.twg.com>, david@twg.com (David S. Herron) writes: > Well.. there is MINIX, and it runs on stock 500's and > 2000's. (or so the box claimed, I doubt it's using any > speshul features of the newer machines meaning that it > "should" work on a 1000...) It does run on an A1000. > The Amiga Minix packages includes disks with binaries on > it and source listings (not source on disk ;-( ... sigh!). Source code (except for the C compiler) is also on disk. > Doesn't mention UUCP! No UUCP included in standard package. The current release will only run on a plain 68000-based Amiga, it only supports NTSC-sized, non-interlaced character display (it does run on PAL machines, though). Current MINIX floppy driver is a total mess - doesn't adhere to the timing specs as defined in the hardware manual. I did not yet find a floppy drive it wouldn't generate errors on. Ralph
david@twg.com (David S. Herron) (03/17/91)
In article <9103120946.56@rmkhome.UUCP> rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes: >In article <1991Mar9.231842.20395@jack.sns.com> jtanner@jack.sns.com (Jason Tanner) writes: >> A friend told me it is possible to run UNIX (Sys V) On an Amiga 500 since >>it uses a 68000 processor like an AT&t Unix-PC. This is an exciting prospect! >>Is this true? If so what company manufactures it? > >The only available UNIX for the Amiga is SYS V Release 4. It requires hardware >memory management, which the 500 does not have. > >If you want UNIX on your Amiga, you will have to upgrade. Well.. there is MINIX, and it runs on stock 500's and 2000's. (or so the box claimed, I doubt it's using any speshul features of the newer machines meaning that it "should" work on a 1000...) HT Electronics had Minix v1.5 in the store ($130) when I was there a few minutes ago. Minix is V7 compatible which means that it's pretty darn stripped down. On the other hand it *is* the last version of Unix which was small enough to be understandable by someone interested in learning OS internals. Minix is a ground-up rewrite and is fully described in Tannenbaum's book on Operating Systems. The Amiga Minix packages includes disks with binaries on it and source listings (not source on disk ;-( ... sigh!). It includes scads and scads of utility programs & a C compiler. Doesn't mention UUCP! For Real True Blue Unix you gotta go with a 3000 or 2000+26{2,3}0 ... (And the last hasn't been verified as an Officially Supported Platform for Amiga Unix, just that some internal C= people use that as their Unix machine rather than a 3000) -- <- David Herron, an MMDF & WIN/MHS guy, <david@twg.com> <- Formerly: David Herron -- NonResident E-Mail Hack <david@ms.uky.edu> <- <- "MS-DOS? Where we're going we don't need MS-DOS." --Back To The Future
eb15+@andrew.cmu.edu (Edward D. Berger) (03/18/91)
David Herron stated something about Amiga Minix not having source on
disk. This is not true. Amiga Minix (as delivered) contains 9 floppies:
1.) is the AmigaOS loader, and utilities
2-9) are Minix format disks with binaries and sources...
The manual explains how to compile the "kernel" from floppies.
(This would be difficult to do without the sources...)
There is several updated minix.img files available for ftp from ftp.cs.vu.nl.
in /pub/sreiz (the first kernel to support the A590 hardrive's XT drive)
in /pub/raymond ( an updated kernel to support both the A590 XT & SCSI)
this may work with the A2091, but I haven't tried it.
This version should work on 68010s as well.
It loads and will basically run (allow login, ls, etc.)
on my A3000/16 if the /usr disk is write protected.
otherwise it does crash, sigh.
there was a newer version in /pub/raymond that didn't work on my A3000.
These are only binaries, official source updates have not been released.
So I now have Minix installed and usable on my A500/A590 with the sources,
but it is currently useless for me to recompile the kernel, since it won't
support the hardisk, though the exercise may have educational value....
Minix binaries for the ST should run on the Amiga version, but I haven't
gotten around to trying that yet. (Its only been a few days...)
There should be quite a bit of useful Minix software in the archives like
gcc, UUCP, etc. I wouldn't expect Prentice Hall to include them in the
basic package. Partially because it is a 'Teaching OS' and they would be
superfluous(sp?), and partially because the size of the distribution, would
become to large. (How many floppies is too many?)
Minix is an interesting package for those people who are interested in
learning more about the internals of a message passing, multitasking OS,
or learning about 'System Administration' on more modest equipment than
the A300UX(en).
-Ed Berger
eb15@andrew.cmu.edudavidm@uunet.UU.NET (David S. Masterson) (03/21/91)
>>>>> On 16 Mar 91 21:00:58 GMT, jet@karazm.math.uh.edu ("J. Eric Townsend") >>>>> said: Eric> In <1991Mar9.231842.20395@jack.sns.com> jtanner@jack.sns.com (Jason Eric> Tanner) writes: Jason> A friend told me it is possible to run UNIX (Sys V) On an Amiga 500 Jason> since it uses a 68000 processor like an AT&t Unix-PC. This is an Jason> exciting prospect! Is this true? If so what company manufactures it? Eric> Unix-PCs (aka 3b1's and 7300's) had a 68010, not a 68000. There's a big Eric> difference. The 3b1 also had memory protection (to the point that if Eric> you want to direct-write into graphics memory you have to do a hardware Eric> hack). I don't know for sure, but I believe the original Unix-PC was a 68000. That's what differentiated it from the 3B1 (which was a 68010). However, when the bottom dropped out on the price, the product lines merged. Don't know about the memory protection on either model, though. -- ==================================================================== David Masterson Consilium, Inc. (415) 691-6311 640 Clyde Ct. uunet!cimshop!davidm Mtn. View, CA 94043 ==================================================================== "If someone thinks they know what I said, then I didn't say it!"
farren@sat.com (Michael J. Farren) (03/22/91)
cimshop!davidm@uunet.UU.NET writes: >I don't know for sure, but I believe the original Unix-PC was a 68000. Nope. The original was a 68010. It's a virtual memory machine (with a custom MMU), and you can't run VM with a 68000, period - that's why the 68010 exists. >That's what differentiated it from the 3B1 (which was a 68010). The difference between the Unix PC and the 3b1 was the nameplate, only. It's just like the "Porsche 914", which in Europe was sold as a Volkswagen. The 3b1 label was reserved for the top of the line, but they are the same machine. >Don't know about the memory protection on either model, though. Custom MMU on all of them. Works like a charm. Followups to comp.sys.3b1. -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael J. Farren farren@sat.com | | He's moody, but he's cute. | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
billy@phoenix.pub.uu.oz.au (Jeff Coleman) (03/22/91)
re amiga minix: unless you have a sizeable amount of ram(say at least 2mb) compiling anything of a reasonable size is pretty unlikely. As the images for the HD supporting versions aren't sourced yet u really can't update the version you buy. so for the basic 500 with a couple of floppies + 1mb its fine to look at just don't expect to compile anything large. and prepare for quite a heavy bit of disk changing ;) regards jeff.