mmm@reaper.Chi.IL.US (Michael Marvin Morrison) (05/17/91)
There was a discussion a earlier about Amix "Tech Notes". Is it possible to receive these notes if you aren't an owner of Amix? I am trying to get Motorola here in Schaumburg to buy an evaluation box and I think this would help. (?) -Thanks -- Michael M Morrison /| |\ mmm@reaper.chi.il.us <or> | | Cash, for Cache.. | | reaper!mmm@miroc.chi.il.us \| Hmm.. sounds fair. |/
tbissett@nstar.rn.com (Travis Bissett) (05/20/91)
mmm@reaper.Chi.IL.US (Michael Marvin Morrison) writes: > There was a discussion a earlier about Amix "Tech Notes". Is it possible to > receive these notes if you aren't an owner of Amix? I am trying to get > Motorola here in Schaumburg to buy an evaluation box and I think this would > help. (?) > I guess it's possible since I'm getting the Tech Notes and I'm not (currently) an owner of Amiga Unix -- in fact it would be tough to fit it on my 2 floppy 1 MB A1000 :-) ... I have know idea of how to get on the mailing list for Tech Notes. I've talked to some of the mddle-to-high marketing types -- maybe they remembered me. More likely, it was from calling the 800 number at CBM to find the closest A3000ux Advanced Systems Dealer. Sorry, I've lost the number Wait.. try this: 1-800-66-AMIGA Good luck! Sheesh, if Motorola won't buy Amiga maybe we can get HP or Sony to buy 'em (really big grin). (The machine, not the company -- although maybe it would break loose Uncle Irving). -- Travis Bissett NSTAR conferencing site 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 internet: tbissett@nstar.rn.com 1300 newsgroups - 8 inbound lines uucp: ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!tbissett 99 file areas - 4300 megabytes --- backbone news & mail feeds available - contact larry@nstar.rn.com ---
mmm@reaper.Chi.IL.US (Michael Marvin Morrison) (05/20/91)
In article <P9o822w161w@nstar.rn.com> tbissett@nstar.rn.com (Travis Bissett) writes: >mmm@reaper.Chi.IL.US (Michael Marvin Morrison) writes: > >> There was a discussion a earlier about Amix "Tech Notes". Is it possible to >> receive these notes if you aren't an owner of Amix? I am trying to get >> Motorola here in Schaumburg to buy an evaluation box and I think this would >> help. (?) >> > >I guess it's possible since I'm getting the Tech Notes and I'm not >(currently) an owner of Amiga Unix -- in fact it would be tough to fit it on >my 2 floppy 1 MB A1000 :-) ... > >I have know idea of how to get on the mailing list for Tech Notes. I've >talked to some of the mddle-to-high marketing types -- maybe they remembered >me. More likely, it was from calling the 800 number at CBM to find the >closest A3000ux Advanced Systems Dealer. Sorry, I've lost the number Wait.. >try this: 1-800-66-AMIGA When I called this number I was told to contact my 'Regional Sales Rep', and hey.. there happened to be one here in Schaumburg. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get in touch with him. Anyways, if you send mail to 'tn@amix.commodore.com' you can get info on getting them. >Good luck! Sheesh, if Motorola won't buy Amiga maybe we can get HP or Sony >to buy 'em (really big grin). (The machine, not the company -- although >maybe it would break loose Uncle Irving). We are predominantly Apollo and Sun (for Unix), and I am the System Admin for a VAX cluster. A few people seemed interested in the ads in most unix mags (Born to run SVR4) and I am simply trying to get more info. This is just one department within Motorola, not Motorola as a whole, of course. And, as everyone else says: 'I just work for (insert company) I don't officially represent them..' > >-- >Travis Bissett NSTAR conferencing site 219-289-0287/317-251-7391 >internet: tbissett@nstar.rn.com 1300 newsgroups - 8 inbound lines >uucp: ..!uunet!nstar.rn.com!tbissett 99 file areas - 4300 megabytes >--- backbone news & mail feeds available - contact larry@nstar.rn.com --- -- Michael M Morrison /| |\ mmm@reaper.chi.il.us <or> | | Cold Steel on Ice | | reaper!mmm@miroc.chi.il.us \| |/
david@twg.com (David S. Herron) (05/25/91)
In article <415@netxcom.netx.com> logan@netxcom.netx.com (Jim Logan) writes: >In article <mmm.1285@reaper.Chi.IL.US> mmm@reaper.Chi.IL.US (Michael Marvin Morrison) writes: >I'm an owner and I don't get the Tech Notes. Why? What do I >have to do to get them?! Without proper documentation I NEED >them! Please respond! (Please, oh please, oh please!) I'm getting them. Somebody posted an e-mail address to which you would beg to be put on the mailing list. (There's also a SnailMail address & telephone number; if you trust those more). I don't even own Amiga UNIX (and won't, since I've decided to go with a SPARCstation instead, but I digress).. >*** FLAME ON! >Commodore: >I really wish you would provide a manual that allows me to use >the Commodore enhancements, rather than wasting my money by >making me pay for baby books about how to use "vi"! I have spent >a lot of time figuring out things that used to be a man-page >away. Like, where did "fmtflop" go? It took me quite a while to >figure out that there is a special device I have to write to! I >wasted my time looking for a command to do it! Calm down.. fmtflop is a Unix PC specific command. (to my knowledge) (Perhaps some other Convergent machines use that command?) Pure System V has, for a long time anyway, had you type a command like format /dev/rdsk/f0q15dt (That device name is specific (I think) to SysV/386 and refers to drive 0, and assumes it is a 5 1/4" HD floppy). This isn't very user friendly. But it is more specific than "fmtflop". Suppose you have more than one flopy? Suppose you have devices other than floppies? Are you going to invent a special command to format each of them? That requires the user to learn lots of very similar commands. This isn't a good idea, at least from a consistency standpoint.. David -- <- David Herron, an MMDF & WIN/MHS guy, <david@twg.com> <- Formerly: David Herron -- NonResident E-Mail Hack <david@ms.uky.edu> <- <- "MS-DOS? Where we're going we don't need MS-DOS." --Back To The Future
ahh@moji.uucp (Andy Heffernan) (05/26/91)
In article <415@netxcom.netx.com> logan@netxcom.netx.com (Jim Logan) writes: >In article <mmm.1285@reaper.Chi.IL.US> mmm@reaper.Chi.IL.US (Michael Marvin Morrison) writes: ># There was a discussion a earlier about Amix "Tech Notes". Is it possible to ># receive these notes if you aren't an owner of Amix? I am trying to get ># Motorola here in Schaumburg to buy an evaluation box and I think this would ># help. (?) > >I'm an owner and I don't get the Tech Notes. Why? What do I >have to do to get them?! Without proper documentation I NEED >them! Please respond! (Please, oh please, oh please!) As was posted earlier, send mail to tn@amix.commodore.com asking to get put on the mailing list. Ownership of a 3000UX is in no way a criterion. I got the first mailing before I bought the machine, and the second after I bought the machine. This is a spare time, low-profile, once-every-few-months deal on the part of a few very busy folks trying to get a major system software release together and out the door -- don't be upset that you weren't informed personally. [misc flames deleted] -- $BJ8;z(J Andy Heffernan This is Unix ( )- ahh@moji.uucp (uunet!glyph!moji!ahh) This is your brain on Unix (o)- Any questions?
tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson) (05/29/91)
mmm@reaper.Chi.IL.US (Michael Marvin Morrison) writes:
- There was a discussion a earlier about Amix "Tech Notes". Is it possible to
- receive these notes if you aren't an owner of Amix? I am trying to get
- Motorola here in Schaumburg to buy an evaluation box and I think this would
- help. (?)
-
I beleive it's just to send an email to tn@amix.commodore.com and say
that you want the Tech Notes.
Tommy P.peter@ficc.ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) (05/29/91)
In article <8977@gollum.twg.com> david@twg.com (David S. Herron) writes: > I'm getting them. Somebody posted an e-mail address to which > you would beg to be put on the mailing list. I did that a couple of times, but still haven't got but the initial copy. I have some people here who are interested in buying home UNIX boxen, and I'd like some more ammo. I've been pretty successful at talking people into getting Amigas in the past, but the more info the better. -- Peter da Silva; Ferranti International Controls Corporation; +1 713 274 5180; Sugar Land, TX 77487-5012; `-_-' "Have you hugged your wolf, today?"
buck@amix.commodore.com (Richard Buck) (05/31/91)
> I did that a couple of times, but still haven't got but the initial copy. > There have been two issues so far, one in January (coinciding with the US launch) and one in April. The next one will be out with the release of 2.0. Peter, you were on the mailing list for both issues. If you still haven't gotten your second issue, let us know. Anybody else, as we've said before, and as many people on the net keep repeating, Tech Notes is available to anyone. It is NOT automatically mailed to 3000UX owners; you have to request it. Send your postal mail address to tn@amix.commodore.com. There have already been two mailings of the second issue, so I doubt there will be anymore. People who send their names in now will start with the third issue, and continue for as long as we in engineering can keep writing and mailing this thing. > -- > Peter da Silva; Ferranti International Controls Corporation; +1 713 274 5180; > Sugar Land, TX 77487-5012; `-_-' "Have you hugged your wolf, today?" -- Richard Buck, (215) 344-3019, buck@amix.commodore.com (5/91)
buck@amix.commodore.com (Richard Buck) (05/31/91)
logan@netxcom.netx.com (Jim Logan) writes: > > I'm an owner and I don't get the Tech Notes. Why? What do I > have to do to get them?! Without proper documentation I NEED > them! Please respond! (Please, oh please, oh please!) Buyers do not automatically receive Tech Notes, because we in engineering don't know who the buyers are. Dealers sell boxes; it's up to them, or the buyers, to decide if they want Tech Notes. We don't to spent our money - thereby jeopardizing the continued life of Tech Notes - sending copies to people who don't need or want them. To make it easier for people to request Tech Notes, the last few builds have packed a recent copy of Tech Notes in the box, so buyers can read an issue and see the address to request future issues. You presumably got a box from one of the first two builds, which did not include any reference to Tech Notes. > > *** FLAME ON! > Commodore: > I really wish you would provide a manual that allows me to use > the Commodore enhancements, rather than wasting my money by > making me pay for baby books about how to use "vi"! Sorry. You don't agree with our marketing people; I listen to them first. Many of our buyers are moving UP to UNIX, and the Amiga was positioned as an easy-to-use desktop UNIX workstation. With new releases and ongoing development activity, we're trying to make this the most convenient UNIX box out there. Our documentation is aimed at those people, because they're the people who cannot make any sense out of the traditional UNIX docs or man pages. They need us more than you do. Advanced developers can use the UNIX Press books, available at any store; novice users and budget-sensitive buyers should not subsidize the minority that want, for example, the Device Driver Interface/Driver Kernel Interface Reference Manual. We have noticed that many people want to network at a level higher than is covered in our basic books, and the UNIX Press networking books are hard to use. We are therefore about to complete a pretty advanced network and administration guide. Still, we won't have the kind of specialized documentation you want; the audience is too small. Note that direct, priority support for UNIX developers is available through CATS; they may have information on special development issues for Amiga UNIX. We added Tech Notes, on the side, to address specific problems that basic users don't care about. Finally, every Amiga UNIX enhancement and driver is documented in our man pages. We truly believe that we've answered each audience appropriately - for the desktop market. > I have spent > a lot of time figuring out things that used to be a man-page away. All our stuff is still a man-page away. We just don't print the man pages and pack volumes of dead trees with each box. We spent a lot of time - A LOT OF TIME - cleaning up and correcting man pages, both for 1.1 and then again between 1.1 and 2.0, plus we added a pretty good interface to the man command. Our core distribution includes these man pages, because we believe that UNIX is not UNIX without the man pages. I hate sitting down at a disabled machine that has lots of free space but no man pages, and I'm not any happier if the printed pages are on a shelf in the next room. man pages belong online, and programmers who use them a lot should buy printed copies. Our complete compressed man pages take less than 7 MB. > Like, where did "fmtflop" go? It took me quite a while to > figure out that there is a special device I have to write to! I > wasted my time looking for a command to do it! Our floppy format command is documented in the "baby books". You wasted your time looking for a command whose name you did not know, instead of checking the index of the manual. To avoid this problem in the future, the 2.0 release includes a new interactive format command, linked so people can find it with either "format" or "fmtflop". The old fdfmt is still there as well. We aims to please. > *** Flame off. -- Richard Buck, (215) 344-3019, buck@amix.commodore.com (5/91)
logan@netxcom.netx.com (Jim Logan) (06/04/91)
In article <2408@amix.commodore.com> buck@amix.commodore.com (Richard Buck) writes: # logan@netxcom.netx.com (Jim Logan) writes: # # > I'm an owner and I don't get the Tech Notes. Why? What do I # > have to do to get them?! Without proper documentation I NEED # > them! Please respond! (Please, oh please, oh please!) # # [ . . . ] To make it easier for people to request # Tech Notes, the last few builds have packed a recent copy of Tech Notes # in the box, so buyers can read an issue and see the address to request future # issues. You presumably got a box from one of the first two builds, which # did not include any reference to Tech Notes. It sounds like C= is doing the right thing now. I suppose I wouldn't have felt as isolated and unsupported if I had waited two months to buy my 3000UXD. # > *** FLAME ON! # > Commodore: # > I really wish you would provide a manual that allows me to use # > the Commodore enhancements, rather than wasting my money by # > making me pay for baby books about how to use "vi"! # # Our documentation is aimed at those people, because they're # the people who cannot make any sense out of the traditional UNIX docs or # man pages. They need us more than you do. Advanced developers can use # the UNIX Press books, available at any store; novice users and budget-sensitive # buyers should not subsidize the minority that want, for example, the # Device Driver Interface/Driver Kernel Interface Reference Manual. From what I've seen on Usenet, I disagree that I am in the minority. I really can't believe that a complete novice would walk into an Amiga store and pick UNIX at this point. It has zilch for third party software (last I checked was a month ago), it is as buggy as hell, the GUI is in B&W, and the GUI is 10x slower that AmigaDOS'. Lots of people say that UNIX is the best thing since sliced bread (I am one), but non-UNIX people continue to turn up their noses at it. (Especially when I make excuses for my $10k machine's inability to use a 19200 baud modem under UNIX or its inability to provide functionality like the Mac has with the Finder under UNIX!) In the long run, C= is doing the right thing by exposing College students to the Amiga, since they will recognize the Amiga as a real computer when they get hired by Future-500 companies after graduation. In the short term, I believe that the Amiga isn't going to make it out there unless people like me can show friends (and fellow software engineers at major companies) that my Amiga works and works as well as any other computer on the market. I really can't believe that C= thinks they are going to sell UNIX to anyone besides UNIX hardened people at this point. Even the universities C= is selling to will be hiring experts to get their systems up and provide support. Those experts will need what I need! Do you really think students will be reading the baby books? I think they will ask the experts first. I want C= to sell UNIX boxes. It will be as much to my disadvantage as it would be to C='s if they didn't sell any UNIX boxes. I think there can be a huge market for the Amiga in the commercial sector. There are many UNIX-oriented software development companies in the DC Metro area, and I probably know at least one person from every company. If C= can give them more bang for the buck, guess what they'll be buying quantities of? Those people won't want baby books! # We have noticed that many people want to network at a level higher than is # covered in our basic books, and the UNIX Press networking books are hard # to use. We are therefore about to complete a pretty advanced network and # administration guide. That sounds right to me. # Still, we won't have the kind of specialized documentation you want; the # audience is too small. Note that direct, priority support for UNIX # developers is available through CATS; they may have information on special # development issues for Amiga UNIX. We added Tech Notes, on the side, to # address specific problems that basic users don't care about. What is CATS? # Finally, every Amiga UNIX enhancement and driver is documented in our # man pages. Completely untrue in 1.1 . Tell me where to find those man pages and I'll take that back. # We truly believe that we've answered each audience appropriately - for # the desktop market. I think C= is kidding themselves. # [ . . . ] Our core distribution includes these man pages, because we # believe that UNIX is not UNIX without the man pages. I'm not saying C= should include the standard printed man pages -- I can (and did) buy them elsewhere. What I can't buy are the Amiga-specific commands and drivers that are undocumented in 1.1! # > Like, where did "fmtflop" go? It took me quite a while to # > figure out that there is a special device I have to write to! I # > wasted my time looking for a command to do it! # # Our floppy format command is documented in the # "baby books". You wasted your time looking for a command whose name you # did not know, instead of checking the index of the manual. Try typing "man fmtflop". It comes up on my screen under 1.1 and under SEE ALSO says "if(7)". When I type "man if" I get "tcp_if(7)". That led me to believe that they were taken out because they didn't work yet. A command whose name I didn't know? Come on! The fmtflop command is in the man pages and it exists on every other System V system I've used! # To avoid this problem in the future, the 2.0 release includes a new # interactive format command, linked so people can find it with either # "format" or "fmtflop". The old fdfmt is still there as well. We aims # to please. "man fdfmt" yields "No manual entry for fdfmt." Even when I found it and tried it it didn't work. It doesn't take an argument and even when I redirected its output to /dev/dsk/fd0 it gave me errors! It took some poking around to find /dev/dsk/fd0f because I had no idea what to look for at that point. # > *** Flame off. -- Jim Logan Home: uunet!gimlet!logan Consultant Work: logan@netx.com Net Express, Inc. Phone: (703) 749-2269