marino@maui.cs.ucla.edu (Fabio Marino) (05/10/91)
Since in the first 36 hours since my last posting I received 36 YES votes and 0 NO votes, I guess it is unresonable to wait seven days.... The following article has been posted to news.announce.newgroups. Note that there is no set time limit for the discussion period, so that if I do not receive significant objections within the next week, I will issue a call for votes. The voting period will be between 21 and 31 days long. I will keep you posted on any developments. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Newsgroups : news.announce.newgroups I am hereby issuing a call for discussion on the creation of the newsgroup soc.culture.italian. This shall be unmoderated and its charter will be the discussion of any aspect of the italian culture, ranging anywhere from politics to entertainment. I shall point out that this group has been running under the trial hierarchy for almost five months. Unfortunately, it seems from the reports I have received from other USENET users/system administrators that the trial hierarchy is NOT received on a majority of sites, therefore it is my opinion that the TRIAL method is not able to fulfill its aim. The traffic on trial.soc.culture.italian has been pretty intense (an average of 4-5 postings every day, even on something like 50 sites) even though italian universities have just recently gained access to USENET thanks to the collaboration of RPI. In consideration of the aforementioned facts, I would like to make the discussion period as short as possible. I welcome any suggestions, requests for clarifications or modifications to any aspect of the newsgroup's charter. Thanks for your time, Fabio Marino marino@cs.ucla.edu
vancleef@iastate.edu (Van Cleef Henry H) (05/12/91)
In article <1991May11.191809.5062@news.iastate.edu> vancleef@iastate.edu (Van Cleef Henry H) writes: >In article <1991May10.234209.29308@cs.ucla.edu> marino@maui.cs.ucla.edu (Fabio Marino) writes: >> >I am hereby issuing a call for discussion on the creation of the >newsgroup soc.culture.italian. >This shall be unmoderated and its charter will be the discussion of >any aspect of the italian culture, ranging anywhere from politics to >entertainment. >I shall point out that this group has been running under the trial >hierarchy for almost five months. >Unfortunately, it seems from the reports I have received from other >USENET users/system administrators that the trial hierarchy is NOT >received on a majority of sites, therefore it is my opinion that the >TRIAL method is not able to fulfill its aim. >The traffic on trial.soc.culture.italian has been pretty intense (an >average of 4-5 postings every day, even on something like 50 sites) >even though italian universities have just recently gained access to >USENET thanks to the collaboration of RPI. >In consideration of the aforementioned facts, I would like to make the >discussion period as short as possible. >I welcome any suggestions, requests for clarifications or >modifications to any aspect of the newsgroup's charter. > I have been a reader of this group for the past two or three weeks. before that I was unaware of its existence, and it was only a chance E-mail comment from someone doing Italian studies that I found out about it. Our newsgroup administrator went to some lengths to find a feed, to get it turned on, and we are fortunate that we could find ANY feed for this newsgroup AT ALL. Note that I am posting from a large university (32,000 people on this campus) that carries a very large number of newsgroups. My own work in Italian studies (through the Union Inst.) makes this group very desirable to me. Soc.culture.europe does not fill the bill. The trial group presently carries a solid, though relatively small, core of traffic, no doubt reflecting its narrow distribution base. The value of soc.culture.(european-countries) is already tested and proven, and Italy is a major European country, socially, politically, economically, and historically. There is plenty of justification for creating such a group without going through the vote process. I support the call for discussion and believe that this should be moved into the voting process as quickly as possible. "VERDI = Vittore Emanuele re d'Italia" -- Hank van Cleef vancleef@iastate.edu Iowa State University, Ames. Ia. tmn!vancleef The Union Institute, Cincinnati, Oh.
marchi@gold.cchem.berkeley.edu (Massimo Marchi) (05/12/91)
In article <1991May11.210529.17071@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> ecaxron@venus.lerc.nasa.gov writes: >In article <1991May11.191809.5062@news.iastate.edu>, > vancleef@iastate.edu (Van Cleef Henry H) writes... > >>In article <1991May10.234209.29308@cs.ucla.edu> > marino@maui.cs.ucla.edu (Fabio Marino) writes: > >>>I am hereby issuing a call for discussion on the creation of the >>>newsgroup soc.culture.italian. [...] > >[discussion of trial group deleted...] > >>The trial group presently carries a solid, though relatively small, core >>of traffic, no doubt reflecting its narrow distribution base. The value >>of soc.culture.(european-countries) is already tested and proven, and >>Italy is a major European country, socially, politically, economically, >>and historically. There is plenty of justification for creating such a >>group without going through the vote process. > >Yeah, but if you create a group that way, it either has to be an alt.* >group (in which case some sites will not receive it), or it may be ignored. >The efficacy of a soc.culture.italian is not in question, in my mind, >but if this group were to try to circumvent the Guidelines for New Group >Creation, I, for one, would both vote and campaign against it. > >Everybody else either plays according to the rules (in this case, the >Guidelines), or creates a trial group (as the original poster has done), >or creates an alt. group. You have to play by the rules too. So there. > >>I support the call for discussion and believe that this should be moved >>into the voting process as quickly as possible. > >While the Guidelines do not call out a minimum length for a discussion >period (only a maximum of 30 days), I don't think it's a good idea to >jump too fast into a vote, even if the proponents are getting anxious. >Everybody else who goes through this waits a little while and goes through >the process, and I'm certain this group can too. > >RG I agree with You on the point we should go to a vote. I don't really understand why it is not a good idea to jump too fast to a vote. Can You enlighten us, please? After all a 5 month discussion is quite enough. MM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Massimo Marchi Lewis-112 marchi@gold.cchem.berkeley.edu University of California at Berkeley marchi@UCBCMSA.bitnet Berkeley, CA 94720
vancleef@iastate.edu (Van Cleef Henry H) (05/12/91)
In article <1991May11.210529.17071@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> ecaxron@venus.lerc.nasa.gov writes: >In article <1991May11.191809.5062@news.iastate.edu>, > vancleef@iastate.edu (Van Cleef Henry H) writes... > >>The trial group presently carries a solid, though relatively small, core >>of traffic, no doubt reflecting its narrow distribution base. The value >>of soc.culture.(european-countries) is already tested and proven, and >>Italy is a major European country, socially, politically, economically, >>and historically. There is plenty of justification for creating such a >>group without going through the vote process. > >Yeah, but if you create a group that way, it either has to be an alt.* >group (in which case some sites will not receive it), or it may be ignored. >The efficacy of a soc.culture.italian is not in question, in my mind, >but if this group were to try to circumvent the Guidelines for New Group >Creation, I, for one, would both vote and campaign against it. > >Everybody else either plays according to the rules (in this case, the >Guidelines), or creates a trial group (as the original poster has done), >or creates an alt. group. You have to play by the rules too. So there. > >>I support the call for discussion and believe that this should be moved >>into the voting process as quickly as possible. > >While the Guidelines do not call out a minimum length for a discussion >period (only a maximum of 30 days), I don't think it's a good idea to >jump too fast into a vote, even if the proponents are getting anxious. >Everybody else who goes through this waits a little while and goes through >the process, and I'm certain this group can too. > >RG Nobody is "circumventing" anything. Nobody is suggesting "circumventing" anything. Nobody is "anxious." Nobody wants to get into the alt. fray. The call for discussion has gone out. I expect to see a call for vote in a timely manner. In the meantime, the trial group will continue business as usual for those who have or who can obtain access to it. -- Hank van Cleef vancleef@iastate.edu Iowa State University, Ames. Ia. tmn!vancleef The Union Institute, Cincinnati, Oh.
brad@looking.on.ca (Brad Templeton) (05/12/91)
Darn. I wish I had kept up on this more quickly. While I am disappointed with the problems trial has faced, I was not prepared to abandon it. Your calling this vote kills it. I am digging for the arbitron stats, which we didn't get due to a bug. Give me a few days. If we get them, and it passes, I will create the group without a vote. -- Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473
hellmond@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Peter H. Hellmonds) (05/12/91)
In article <1991May12.071814.4347@looking.on.ca> brad@looking.on.ca (Brad Templeton) writes: >Darn. I wish I had kept up on this more quickly. While I am disappointed >with the problems trial has faced, I was not prepared to abandon it. > >Your calling this vote kills it. > >I am digging for the arbitron stats, which we didn't get due to a bug. >Give me a few days. If we get them, and it passes, I will create the >group without a vote. >-- >Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473 Brad, great, if we can get the group created according to the trial.*** rules, and without going through the voting procedure, I'd love it, since else we would have to wait at least another six weeks, considering two weeks didcussion and four weeks for the vote. Just to make sure : WITHIN THE RULES. I wouldn't want a big discussion about the correctness of this procedure. I think s.c.i. should pass under any circumstance, regardless of the procedure. If the Arbitron results justify creation without a vote, great, if not: let's vote. SOON. Peter . ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter H. Hellmonds ----- Tel: (609) 683-4893 ----- Fax: (609) 258-2809 Princeton University - Woodrow Wilson School of Public & Intl. Affairs --- European in Exile (tm) --- /--------\ --- Languages answered: --- hellmond@phoenix.princeton.edu /----------\ German English hellmond@pucc.princeton.edu /------------\ French Italian ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. -- Derek Bok, president of Harvard University
sandra@bull.it (Sandra Farnedi) (05/15/91)
In article <1991May12.022921.13088@news.iastate.edu> vancleef@iastate.edu (Van Cleef Henry H) writes: >In article <1991May11.210529.17071@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> ecaxron@venus.lerc.nasa.gov writes: >>In article <1991May11.191809.5062@news.iastate.edu>, >> vancleef@iastate.edu (Van Cleef Henry H) writes... >> >>>The trial group presently carries a solid, though relatively small, core >>>of traffic, no doubt reflecting its narrow distribution base. The value There is also a distribution problem inside the trial.s.c.i itself because I have noticed that I cannot receive all the articles of the newsgroup but only a part of them. This fact doesn't allow me to completly listen to a discussion because I always miss some part of it. I cannot understand the reason why, but this is the present situation in BULL Italy about the newsgroup t.s.c.i. On the contrary I think I correctly receive all the articles concerning the soc.culture.* hierarchy and that is a good reason for me to ask for the creation of the soc.culture.italian newsgroup. >>>I support the call for discussion and believe that this should be moved >>>into the voting process as quickly as possible. I too. > I expect to see a >call for vote in a timely manner. I too. Just a question: Is this the right group to speak Italian or shall I wait for the creation of soc.culture.italian-language-only? I think that all the people who participate in this newsgroup should at least understand italian so I think that everybody should be free to write in italian thinking that everybody can understand. Moreover I would like that all the people who can write the italian language write in italian and only those who do not know it use english. This would be a small contribution to the spreading of the italian language in the world. Ciao a tutti Sandra -- |Email: Sandra.Farnedi@pr.bull.it | |BULL HN ITALY | tel : 39-2-9336-8333| |Via Lab. Olivetti | fax : 39-2-9336-8027| |I-20010 Pregnana Milanese | telex : 33 25 22 |
esrmm@warwick.ac.uk (Denis Anthony) (05/20/91)
In article <1991May15.072144.13814@bull.it> sandra@minerva1.pg.bull.fr (Sandra Farnedi) writes: >Is this the right group to speak Italian or shall I wait for the creation >of soc.culture.italian-language-only? I think that all the people who >participate in this newsgroup should at least understand italian >so I think that everybody should be free to write in italian thinking >that everybody can understand. Moreover I would like that all >the people who can write the italian language write in italian and only >those who do not know it use english. This would be a small contribution >to the spreading of the italian language in the world. Si, Denis
fireflyte@MAPLE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU (05/27/91)
In article <1991May15.072144.13814@bull.it> sandra@minerva1.pg.bull.fr (Sandra Farnedi) writes: >Is this the right group to speak Italian or shall I wait for the creation >of soc.culture.italian-language-only? I think that all the people who >participate in this newsgroup should at least understand italian >so I think that everybody should be free to write in italian thinking >that everybody can understand. Moreover I would like that all >the people who can write the italian language write in italian and only >those who do not know it use english. This would be a small contribution >to the spreading of the italian language in the world. I agree with your desire to write in Italian on this group, as much as possible, but if I may put in a request as somewhat of a representative of those who do not know the language, but are eager to learn, that you do not immediately condemn someone who posts questions in English, as it will do a great deal more to help spread the language if new learners are able to draw upon the knowledge of those who know, and if they are able to practice their newly-born comprehension in reading "live" conversation. I have had to deal with hostility over the net from Finlanders, and have been hoping that there is more understanding among the other nationalities for one who wishes to learn. Also, I would ask for possible sources/references that the group could suggest to help teach-myself Italian. I have a background in Latin and Spanish, can understand written French a little, and am eager to learn more about the Italian quarter of my heritage. One last question: could anyone help me trace the origins/meaning of my last name, Iannone? I have had little contact with that side of my family. Thank you in advance, Shauna Iannone University of Florida Gainesville, FL fireflyte@maple.circa.ufl.edu