[comp.dcom.fax] fax/phone switches ?

hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama) (06/05/91)

Who   can recommend me   an automatic   fax/phone switch  that  has  a
reasonable price. Let's say under $100.  It should sniff  the incoming
call and  whether  it is  a phone  call or a  fax call direct it to my
telephone or fax modem.  Here in Finland they are  overlypriced; local
telephone company tried to sell me one that  cost 1500FIM (about $350)
!!!

Also  fax number for the company  that sells these  is very welcome. I
guess  this  device should work the  same whether it is  used in US or
Europe or  what.   Power supply  is perhaps different   but not a real
problem. I mean that it should work with phone  and fax signals or are
there any differences concerning this kind of scheme.

-- 
== Harri Valkama, University of Vaasa, Finland ============================
 P.O. Box 700, 65101 VAASA, Finland (tel:+358 61 248426 fax:+358 61 248465)
 Anon ftp garbo.uwasa.fi (128.214.12.37) & nic.funet.fi (128.214.6.100)
 hv@uwasa.fi hv@finfiles.bitnet /s=hv/o=uwasa/prdm=inet/amdm=fumail/c=fi

caserta@athena.mit.edu (Francesco Caserta) (06/05/91)

In article <1991Jun4.193711.22400@uwasa.fi>, hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama) writes:
|> Who   can recommend me   an automatic   fax/phone switch  that  has  a
|> reasonable price. Let's say under $100.  It should sniff  the incoming
|> call and  whether  it is  a phone  call or a  fax call direct it to my
|> telephone or fax modem.  Here in Finland they are  overlypriced; local
|> telephone company tried to sell me one that  cost 1500FIM (about $350)
|> !!!
|> 
|> Also  fax number for the company  that sells these  is very welcome. I
|> guess  this  device should work the  same whether it is  used in US or
|> Europe or  what.   Power supply  is perhaps different   but not a real
|> problem. I mean that it should work with phone  and fax signals or are
|> there any differences concerning this kind of scheme.
|> 
|> -- 
|> == Harri Valkama, University of Vaasa, Finland ============================
|>  P.O. Box 700, 65101 VAASA, Finland (tel:+358 61 248426 fax:+358 61 248465)
|>  Anon ftp garbo.uwasa.fi (128.214.12.37) & nic.funet.fi (128.214.6.100)
|>  hv@uwasa.fi hv@finfiles.bitnet /s=hv/o=uwasa/prdm=inet/amdm=fumail/c=fi

Well, you want it at a reasonable price, I would like it of very good quality and loaded with features. Precisely, I'm looking for a modem/fax/phone switch. 

So, we might take this opportunity to see if we can get some more information on these devices. My advice is to read first the manual and than buy the machine.
There are often many hidden bad surprises.

Although at home I have some more info, here in the office I have the catalog 
of Hello Direct, 140 Great Oaks Blvd., San Jose, CA 95119-1347, 1-800-444-3556, (408)972-1990, Fax (408)972-8155. Not the place for bargains, but the quality is not bad. They have two products: the Crosspoint Autoswitcher I ($229) and the Crosspoint Autoswitcher II ($129). The latter switches only between voice and fax.

Has anyone used these ones? Any other other modem/fax/phone switch?


Thanks a lot!

Francesco Caserta




P.S. Don't forget that you will also need a power transformer. Do you use modular jacks in Finland? Any problem problem to import it (customs)? 

massa@uni-paderborn.de (Michael Janich) (06/05/91)

caserta@athena.mit.edu (Francesco Caserta) writes:

>In article <1991Jun4.193711.22400@uwasa.fi>, hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama) writes:
[stuff deleted]

Does anyone of you how this works? Does the 'switch device' hook up and
listen/send (to) a tone? Do you need help form your telephon company?
Does it work in Germany?

Thanx for your answers.

-- 


   Michael Janich, Uni Paderborn, United Germany

caserta@athena.mit.edu (Francesco Caserta) (06/06/91)

In article <1991Jun5.145752.16042@uni-paderborn.de>, massa@uni-paderborn.de (Michael Janich) writes:
|>
|> 
|> Does anyone of you (know) how this works? Does the 'switch device' hook up and
|> listen/send (to) a tone? Do you need help form your telephon company?
|> Does it work in Germany?
|> 
|> Thanx for your answers.
|> 
|> -- 
|> 
|> 
|>    Michael Janich, Uni Paderborn, United Germany

No problem at all. Modems and faxes send acoustic signals that are specified in worldwide accepted standards. Depending on the signal they hear, they will switch to the right device. (There is some exception for some old equipment.) You don't need any help from the telephone company. It would be good to know if in Germany modular jacks (RJ11) are used and if touch tone is available (for additional features like caller switching between devices).


Francesco Caserta

dplatt@ntg.com (Dave Platt) (06/08/91)

In article <1991Jun6.000911.14780@athena.mit.edu> caserta@athena.mit.edu (Francesco Caserta) writes:

> No problem at all. Modems and faxes send acoustic signals that are
> specified in worldwide accepted standards. Depending on the signal they
> hear, they will switch to the right device. (There is some exception for
> some old equipment.)

Actually, I think it _is_ a problem.  It's true that faxes (Group 3, at
least) do send a specific tone every few seconds after they dial, and
that a fax-aware answering machine or switch can use this tone to route
the call to a fax machine.

The same is not necessarily true of data modems.  Most data modems do
_not_ send an "I am a modem" tone after dialing.  They wait, silent as
the grave, until they "hear" a suitable answer-tone from a modem at the
receiving end of the call, and _then_ they send one or more tones to
initiate the data handshake process.

The reports I've heard of fax/data/voice switches are not particularly
encouraging... one comment was "The vendors seem to assume that all
users have advanced degrees in telecommunications."


-- 
Dave Platt                                                VOICE: (415) 813-8917
              Domain: dplatt@ntg.com      UUCP: ...apple!ntg!dplatt
 USNAIL: New Technologies Group Inc. 2468 Embarcardero Way, Palo Alto CA 94303

sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne) (06/08/91)

In article <1005@goblin.ntg.com> dplatt@ntg.com (Dave Platt) writes:
>In article <1991Jun6.000911.14780@athena.mit.edu> caserta@athena.mit.edu (Francesco Caserta) writes:
>
>> No problem at all. Modems and faxes send acoustic signals that are
>> specified in worldwide accepted standards. Depending on the signal they
>> hear, they will switch to the right device. (There is some exception for
>> some old equipment.)
>
>Actually, I think it _is_ a problem.  It's true that faxes (Group 3, at
>least) do send a specific tone every few seconds after they dial, and
>that a fax-aware answering machine or switch can use this tone to route
>the call to a fax machine.

This is called CNG and is not a mandatory part of the G3 (aka T.30) standard in
North America (it is mandatory in many European countries I'm told).

So many fax machines sold in NA have CNG disabled. Usually it can be re-enabled. But
given consumers that have a tough time selecting FINE mode over STD it's not
apparent that it would be to easy to get a machine that's calling you fixed. Also it
is sometimes not too easy. For example I've got a little Fujistu Dex Ten, to turn
CNG on I had to phone Fujistu Canada, track down a support engineer and he fax'd me
some pages from the Service manual. It just wasn't in the Users manual at all.

I've been told by the people who design modems that there is currently no way to
accuratly determine the difference between data modems and fax modems. If there was
they would be rushing to get it into the standards. It's certainly a hot topic at
the standards meetings.

-- 
Stuart Lynne	Computer Signal Corporation, Canada
		...!van-bc!sl 604-937-7785 604-937-7718(fax) sl@wimsey.bc.ca 

tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Terry Jones) (06/08/91)

>encouraging... one comment was "The vendors seem to assume that all
>users have advanced degrees in telecommunications."

I agree with this comment...

What about the fact that some poor SOB calling my line long distance.
I set my answering machine to 4 rings so anybody that knows me doesn't
let it ring more than 3 times unless they want to leave a message. These
line sharing devices always answer and the user gets nicked for the
cost even if I am not home and they DON'T want to leave a message.

I know this is foolish thinking about OTHER people! I should just think
about whats most convenient to me and saves ME money...

I think the the best solutions are the "buy another line" solution
or else some of the more recent technological solutions such as
multiple numbers to one line with different ring sequences and a
device that decodes this sort of stuff.

alan@km4ba.uucp (Alan Barrow) (06/08/91)

hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama) writes:

I use the ASAP TF-505. Under $100US, and does everything
it claims to.

Some things that may be useful to you:

	Fakes several ring types. (US, european, UK, etc)

	Works with a fax, modem & answer machine. (It
	will route to all three)

	Give a busy tone to any line that picks up
	when another line has the phone line.

Some minor nits:

 	The dialing party hears:
		1 normal ring
		a loud click
		"faked rings"

The only problem with this is that some people think
the unit hung up on them. Others hear the odd ring, and
think they have a wrong number.

Most people, and all modems & faxes have no problem
with it. I use it mainly to share a home line with
a Telebit trailblazer for a partial usenet feed.	

Good Luck!


 Alan Barrow  km4ba | I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack
 jab@hpuerca.hp.com | ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched
                    | C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
 ..!gatech!kd4nc!   | All those moments will be lost in time -
         km4ba!alan | like tears in rain. Time to die.          Roy Batty

massa@uni-paderborn.de (Michael Janich) (06/09/91)

tj@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Terry Jones) writes:

[stuff deleted]
>I think the the best solutions are the "buy another line" solution
>or else some of the more recent technological solutions such as
>multiple numbers to one line with different ring sequences and a
>device that decodes this sort of stuff.

Yes, this should be the best way: Code it in the way of ringing the
bell. But how do I tell that my telephon company - and how do I tell
it my fax device?
-- 


   Michael Janich, Uni Paderborn, United Germany

hhallika@zeus.calpoly.edu (Harold Hallikainen) (06/09/91)

	It really seems that all these "little boxes" should be
inside the fax machine.  It seems that with just a software 
(firmware) change, most existing fax machines could possibly
sort out calls based on receiving CNG or receiving or failure
to receive fax carrier, or even detection of DTMF or voice.  
The machines typically do not have a way of generating outgoing
ring signals, but they can make a lot noise 'til someone picks
up the phone.  
	It SHOULD be real easy for fax manufacturers to take
advantage of telco assigning different ring patterns to different
numbers on the same line.  The fax could be programmed to
recognize its pattern and ignore all others.  If the fax machine
includes an existing relay to exclude an attached phone, the
ring signal could be routed to the phone only when the fax 
machine does not recognize its pattern.  Since the fax machine
already has a ring detector in it and may have exclusion contacts
on its existing line relay, no additional hardware is required.
This software change could be promoted by fax manufacturers to
differentiate their product from the rest.

--
Harold Hallikainen              ap621@Cleveland.Freenet.edu
Hallikainen & Friends, Inc.     hhallika@pan.calpoly.edu
141 Suburban Road, Bldg E4      phone 805 541 0200 fax 544 6715
San Luis Obispo, CA 93401-7590  telex 4932775 HFI UI