vanaards%t7@uk.ac.man.cs (02/20/91)
I'm literally fed up with the new Archimedes keyboard, how many times do you have to keep cleaning the keyboard contacts - this is the third time in the space of 2 weeks ! Okay so its better than the old ones in respect to those rubber pads - they were a right pain putting back, but this one needs more cleaning. I keep finding the odd key not responding, unless it was hit hard, when I rang up Dabhand computing to enquire what's wrong they just said take it apart - or if I wasn't capable of that then send it to them ! Well I don't know about other less able people but I'm sure I'd be sick of having to send the keyboard several times a year just to get cleaned ! Come on Acorn - I'm sure you can find a better design. +--------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | ()()TEVEN () | | | () ()() | | | ()() () ()AN () () | | | () ()() ()()()() +-----------------------------------------+ | ()() () () ()ARDT |JANET E-mail : vanaards@uk.ac.man.cs.p4 | +--------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
cs9h9tts@cybaswan.UUCP (t.simpson) (02/20/91)
In article <1991Feb19.160812.20483@cns.umist.ac.uk> vanaards%t7@uk.ac.man.cs writes: > > I'm literally fed up with the new Archimedes keyboard, how many times do >you have to keep cleaning the keyboard contacts - this is the third time in >the space of 2 weeks ! Okay so its better than the old ones in respect to >those rubber pads - they were a right pain putting back, but this one needs >more cleaning. I keep finding the odd key not responding, unless it was hit wow, someone else with this problem. On my keyboard, the bottom left shift key and the caps lock won't respond. I guessed it was a cracked track, but maybe (hopefully) I'm wrong and its only dust in the keyboard. If so, how do I fix it?. how easy or hard is it to take the keyboard apart and clean the contacts? any help mucho apprecieo. Tom. cs9h9tts@uk.ac.swan.pyr
aroest@fwi.uva.nl (Axel Roest (N)) (02/21/91)
cs9h9tts@cybaswan.UUCP (t.simpson) writes: >In article <1991Feb19.160812.20483@cns.umist.ac.uk> vanaards%t7@uk.ac.man.cs writes: >> >> I'm literally fed up with the new Archimedes keyboard, how many times do >>you have to keep cleaning the keyboard contacts - this is the third time in >>the space of 2 weeks ! Okay so its better than the old ones in respect to >>those rubber pads - they were a right pain putting back, but this one needs >>more cleaning. I keep finding the odd key not responding, unless it was hit >wow, someone else with this problem. On my keyboard, the bottom left shift >key and the caps lock won't respond. I guessed it was a cracked track, but >maybe (hopefully) I'm wrong and its only dust in the keyboard. If so, how >do I fix it?. how easy or hard is it to take the keyboard apart and clean >the contacts? Wow, what do you do with your keyboards? Bang them with hammers and Coke cans or something? I have my Arch for 2(3?) years now and I haven't had any serious problems. Once I dropped a glass of wine into the keyboard and I had to take it apart and clean it with water. That's all. I don't have a keyboard cover and I don't live in a clean room. I think the dust gets blown away because my typing is very fast. :-) Now I DO have a lot of problems with my mouse. Why did Acorn decide to use a light plastic ball instead of a heavy, rubbercoated metal one. The friction between the plastic ball and the metal 'thingies' is very low. Does someone know a supplier of rubbercoated metal balls with the same diameter as the ball in the Arch mouse? I think that will give the mouse a much better 'feeling'. Axel
news@prg.ox.ac.uk (news) (02/21/91)
t.simpson) writes: >vanaards%t7@uk.ac.man.cs writes: >>... I they were a right pain putting back, but this one needs >>more cleaning. I keep finding the odd key not responding, unless it was hit > >wow, someone else with this problem. On my keyboard, the bottom left shift >key and the caps lock won't respond. ... > >any help mucho apprecieo. Me too - I wonder hom many folk out there are caps lock-less? Do we have a design flaw on our hands... Please post Cleaning instructions! Andrew Stevens Programmming Research Group JANET: Andrew.Stevens@uk.ac.oxford.prg Oxford University Computing Laboratory INTERNET: Andrew.Stevens@prg.ox.ac.uk 11 Keble Road, Oxford, England UUCP: ...!uunet!mcvax!ukc!ox-prg!as OX1 3QD
stuart@root.co.uk (Stuart Boutell) (02/22/91)
Recently, aroest@fwi.uva.nl (Axel Roest (N)) wrote: >cs9h9tts@cybaswan.UUCP (t.simpson) writes: >>In article <1991Feb19.160812.20483@cns.umist.ac.uk> vanaards%t7@uk.ac.man.cs writes: >>> I'm literally fed up with the new Archimedes keyboard, how many times do >>>you have to keep cleaning the keyboard contacts - this is the third time in >>>the space of 2 weeks ! [stuff deleted] >>wow, someone else with this problem. On my keyboard, the bottom left shift >>key and the caps lock won't respond. I guessed it was a cracked track, but >>maybe (hopefully) I'm wrong and its only dust in the keyboard. [stuff deleted] >Wow, what do you do with your keyboards? Bang them with hammers and Coke >cans or something? [stuff deleted] No, just use them too often :-) I fall into the "horrible keyboards for the money" camp. Both the Archimedes I have owned have had bad keyboard trouble. My (admittedly very early) A310 had a dead keyboard on arrival! This required regular disassembly (and awkward reassembly- you had to balance the whole thing upside-down to try and make sure the keys didn't jam against the keyboard case when you put it together) to keep it working. It had an ABYSMAL 'feel' anyway. Then, my A410/1 keyboard failed twice within two months. At least that one hasn't got such a dreadful touch that your hands seized up after typing for an hour... >Now I DO have a lot of problems with my mouse. Why did Acorn decide to use >a light plastic ball instead of a heavy, rubbercoated metal one. The >friction between the plastic ball and the metal 'thingies' is very low. [stuff deleted] >Axel I don't mind the mouse - it doesn't get anywhere as "gunged up" as an Atari mouse does, for example. The Atari mouse seems to attract small pieces of Bluetac(tm) from a mysterious source and coat the metal rollers with them :-) IMHO, the worst piece of kit that Acorn sell is their rebadged Philips monitor. The power supply on the one that came with my A310 blew up after 13 months :-( and I wasn't been able to find anyone willing to take it in to repair! And I could tell you other peoples tales of woe about chronic gun alignment, power connection problems to IEC on the Archie, Sparking in damp weather, etc etc etc etc. I'm quite surprised Acorn don't re-sell the slightly more expensive and technically far superior 8833 instead. That way, people could watch TV via a modulator whilst the compiler chews their C :-) Stuart --------------------------------------------------------------- Stuart Boutell - UniSoft Ltd, Spa House, stuart@root.co.uk - Rivington Street, London, UK ...!uunet!ukc!root.co.uk!stuart - Tel: +44 71 729 3773 x226 The views expressed above are, of course, my own.
hughesmp@vax1.tcd.ie (02/22/91)
In article <1991Feb21.143445.22959@fwi.uva.nl>, aroest@fwi.uva.nl (Axel Roest (N)) writes: > Wow, what do you do with your keyboards? Bang them with hammers and Coke > cans or something? > I have my Arch for 2(3?) years now and I haven't had any serious problems. I've had mine for 1 year ish, and no problems except once the keypad 5 key died from excessive playing of my Tetris. I fixed that by opening up the keyboard, getting a decent aerosol can of contact cleaner, and letting the whole lot have it... It still works now! (And yes, it used CFCs.) > Now I DO have a lot of problems with my mouse. Why did Acorn decide to use > a light plastic ball instead of a heavy, rubbercoated metal one. The > friction between the plastic ball and the metal 'thingies' is very low. > Does someone know a supplier of rubbercoated metal balls with the same > diameter as the ball in the Arch mouse? > I think that will give the mouse a much better 'feeling'. No we're talking serious bummers. I'm on my second mouse, and this one's just about died. Cleaning them didn't work for even 10 seconds. I want to get a PC 3 button mouse; there is a simple alteration, an invertor I think, on one line which makes it work the right way up. Those mice I believe are a lot better than the Arc ones... > Axel T. #! r
mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) (02/22/91)
vanaards%t7@uk.ac.man.cs writes: > I'm literally fed up with the new Archimedes keyboard Oh, yes. That should've been on my list of things-which-could-be-better-on- the-Archimedes... What is the point of making the keyboard look just like a PC keyboard, if you then make the backspace key perform a CTRL-H and the Delete key perform a Backspace?! AAAAARGH! Has this been fixed yet? mathew. [ I _know_ that in a pedantic ASCII sense, backspace was not originally the same as backspace-and-delete; but every single PC out there (and most other machines as well) makes 'backspace' delete the character backspaced over, and makes Delete delete the character to the _right_ of the cursor. ]
gtoal@tharr.UUCP (Graham Toal) (02/23/91)
In article <1991Feb20.144346.13599@maths.tcd.ie> ajudge@maths.tcd.ie (Alan Judge) writes: >One feature that bugs me about the EOS-10s is the fact that it will *not* let >let me take more than 36 shots per roll [...] >Is there any way around this? Does this happen on other EOS/non-EOS cameras? It happens on my EOS-1 too - I believe the film length is encoded on DX films. While annoying, I have come to realise the positive aspects - Film is not strained by running to the end ( at 5.5 fps! ) Shots right at the end of the roll do not slightly overlap ( 7000i did ) Shots at the end of the roll do not get cut off if you make a couple of mm error with the scissors... Film lies a lot less flat near the end of the roll - you can get unsharp shots from this even with high quality lenses. Does this make you feel better? ----------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Mazzaferri, Comp.Sc. Ph.D. student, Uni. of Newcastle, Ph (049) 602574 mazz@nucs.newc caps lock won't respond. I guessed it was a cracked track, but I examined it very closely and couldn't see anything; I've also cleaned it out with a hand-vacuum specially for such work. Given that I have *two* sucj keyboards with the same fault, and other people seem to too, does acorn want to comment before we start shouting 'design fault'? G -- (* Posted from tharr.uucp - Public Access Unix - +44 (234) 261804 *)
csuwr@warwick.ac.uk (Derek Hunter) (02/23/91)
In article <1991Feb22.154034.7845@vax1.tcd.ie> hughesmp@vax1.tcd.ie writes: >to get a PC 3 button mouse; there is a simple alteration, an invertor I >think, on one line which makes it work the right way up. Those mice I >believe are a lot better than the Arc ones... How about using MOUSE STEP -1,-1 or something similar with *Configure? Derek Hunter
osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith) (02/24/91)
In article <1845@tharr.UUCP> gtoal@tharr.UUCP (Graham Toal) writes: >Wait till you see the idiocy of the A540 mouse: > Keyboard cable: approx 1 ft > Mouse cable: approx 6 feet! You will find the situation is the same on an A400/1 series machine. I also find this a pain. The keyboard cable is only just long enough as I have my machine stack (about 18 inches high in total with the A440/1 at the top!) to the right of the monitor. To make the keyboard cable reach, I have to have the A440/1 sideways. This does have the benefit that I can get at the connectors on the back more easily. Even with this set up, the keyboard cable is only just long enough. The mouse cable, on the other hand, trails all over the desk behind the monitor. I do however find the mouse to be a very nice one if used on a mouse mat. The keyboard is quite nice too, you can actually tilt it far enough. Must keyboards I have used in the past had insufficient tilt for me. On the other hand, the keyboard is not heavy enough and tends to move around on the desk too easily. Owen. The views expressed are my own and are not necessarily those of Acorn.
garyb@abekrd.co.uk (Gary Bartlett) (02/24/91)
In <2618@root44.co.uk> stuart@root.co.uk (Stuart Boutell) writes: >IMHO, the worst piece of kit that Acorn sell is their rebadged Philips >monitor. The power supply on the one that came with my A310 blew up after >13 months :-( and I wasn't been able to find anyone willing to take it in >to repair! And I could tell you other peoples tales of woe about chronic >gun alignment, power connection problems to IEC on the Archie, Sparking in >damp weather, etc etc etc etc. >I'm quite surprised Acorn don't re-sell the slightly more expensive and >technically far superior 8833 instead. That way, people could watch TV >via a modulator whilst the compiler chews their C :-) Aha, this is EXACTLY what I do with my 8833. I knew someone else must also do the same. I picked up mine from Twillstar Computers who were throwing in a free TV Tuner (Philips) with it - great! One thing that does annoy me with this monitor though (which may also be true of the Acorn-badged model?) is the fact that although it advertises as having stereo speakers accessible through the Scart connector, it doesn't tell you that the two signals it requires are SUM and DIFFERENCE signals --- ie one signal needs L + R, the other L - R --- most annoying! --- you can't just wire in your Archimedes' sound output direct (well you can but it does weird things when you pan the sound from left to right). Does anyone make an adapter? +-------+ | | L ------> -------> L + R | | R ------> -------> L - R | | +-------+ Gary -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary C. Bartlett NET: garyb@abekrd.co.uk Abekas Video Systems Ltd. UUCP: ...!uunet!mcsun!ukc!pyrltd!abekrd!garyb 12 Portman Rd, Reading, PHONE: +44 734 585421
andras@alzabo.ocunix.on.ca (Andras Kovacs) (02/25/91)
In article <2618@root44.co.uk> stuart@root.co.uk (Stuart Boutell) writes: >I'm quite surprised Acorn don't re-sell the slightly more expensive and >technically far superior 8833 instead. That way, people could watch TV >via a modulator whilst the compiler chews their C :-) I am using the Commodore 2080; it has beautiful color saturation and three inputs: analog, digital and composite. It is permanently hooked up both to my A310 and my VCR; watching the tube is just an input selector button-press away... -- Andras Kovacs andras@alzabo.ocunix.on.ca Nepean, Ont.
bdb@cl.cam.ac.uk (Brian Brunswick) (02/26/91)
[Many people muttering about mice, using other mice] The problem is that most PC mice are serial ones - they actually send coordinates back to the system via an RS232 interface! If you do get a straight wired mouse, its fairly easy to hook up though. I've interchanged BBC, Amiga, Achimedes mice with no problem, just fixing up a weird cable. X or Y direction can be reversed by swapping around the two signals that give the quadrature... ok, explanation coming up. Mice tend to work by having an X-roller, say, with a slotted disk on it and TWO detectors for the slots. These are arranged so that they produce square waves a quarter cycle out of step: --+ +-----+ +-----+ +----- | | | | | | +-----+ +-----+ +-----+ -----+ +-----+ +-----+ | | | | | +-----+ +-----+ +----- Thus. (plotting signal against X position of mouse) All that is necessary then is to wait for say a rising edge of one signal, and look at the level of the other signal to see which way the mouse is going. (Look at pic from left to right, and from right to left ) For 200 dpi resolution, look at rising and falling edges and eor them. The thing that most irritates me is that the design of having a ball and internal rollers is completely stupid. I saw a completely WONDERFUL DESIGN on a mouse on a Decstation 3100... It had two entirely separate rollers underneath, each angled with its axis just off vertical, arranged so that one had an edge touching the desk up/down and one across. Bingo! No gunge, Only ONE place to slip instead of two.. Pity the mouse itself is circular... (Yuch) Brian.Brunswick@uk.ac.cam.cl Disclaimer. Short sig rules!
gcwillia@daisy.waterloo.edu (Graeme Williams) (02/26/91)
In article <F12RX21w163w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes: >vanaards%t7@uk.ac.man.cs writes: > >What is the point of making the keyboard look just like a PC keyboard, if you >then make the backspace key perform a CTRL-H and the Delete key perform a >Backspace?! AAAAARGH! > >Has this been fixed yet? Its proper the way it is. The PC way of doing things is quite illogical. (Unix systems also seem to do things the PC way, but that isn't a good reason to follow - Unix is nearly as ugly as a PC. One crowd that does do things properly are Digital with their VAX/VMS systems.) Consider: How many times do you need to delete the character in *front* of the cursor - usually it isn't even typed yet. So shouldn't a DELETE key do what it says, namely delete the character just typed. I understand your frustration, I get frustrated swapping betwixt machines too. Only I view things the other way: "WHY WHY WHY can't IBM and Unix systems do things logically? - Are they so incompetent?" Personally, I hope Acorn never succumbs to the temptation to follow in the footsteps of the mediocre and the aged. Graeme Williams gcwillia@daisy.waterloo.edu
dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk (Denis Howe) (02/26/91)
>I'm quite surprised Acorn don't re-sell the slightly more expensive and >technically far superior 8833 instead. The 8833 is good but not perfect, the size of the picture varies with the brightness (poor EHT regulation?). As for the sound, I can't remember anything about the inputs being L+R and L-R when I wired up my lead. I've never noticed anything strange about the stereo. -- Denis Howe C - C <dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk> / \ +44 (71) 589 5111 x5064 C - C - C \ / DiazaBicycloHeptene N = N
rbodamer@oracle.nl (Roger Bodamer) (02/26/91)
In article <1991Feb25.202045.2240@watdragon.waterloo.edu> gcwillia@daisy.waterloo.edu (Graeme Williams) writes: >In article <F12RX21w163w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes: >>vanaards%t7@uk.ac.man.cs writes: >> >>What is the point of making the keyboard look just like a PC keyboard, if you >>then make the backspace key perform a CTRL-H and the Delete key perform a >>Backspace?! AAAAARGH! >> >Its proper the way it is. The PC way of doing things is quite illogical. Sure. But even if it is illogical, a few million of users are used to it which might be a very good reason to be compatible with them. >(Unix systems also seem to do things the PC way, but that isn't a good >reason to follow - Unix is nearly as ugly as a PC. #IRONY ON Sure !! Unix sucks !! Basic Rules !! Why invent anything beyond Arthur or RiscOs ?? #IRONY OFF >One crowd that does do things properly are Digital with their > VAX/VMS systems.) Let me see, I'm sitting behind a vax workstation now. I don't see a key labelled 'delete'. Let's try the backspace ( upper right ) Ah, it deletes the character to the left. Great. Why doesn't that work on a standard archimedes 310 ? When I bought my archimeds (305) some 3 years ago I couldn't find a way of switching the effect of these keys (backspace and delete) which really annoyed me a lot. >I understand your frustration, I get frustrated swapping betwixt >machines too. Only I view things the other way: "WHY WHY WHY can't IBM >and Unix systems do things logically? - Are they so incompetent?" > See the IRONY ON/OFF section. BTW Are you using a velotype ? Study has learned that if you type on a velotype your productivity will go up by 300%. They did it because they redesigned the keyboard which they found clumsy and inefficient. The fact that almost nobody uses it ( in spite of the real productivity gain ) is that Joe user is very conservative in changing from one development to the other. And he is right. So even if Acorn has a absolutly brilliant id with their placement of keys, changes that this placement will be adapted as the new standard are 0, NULL, ( noppes. dutch :-). They got a lot of things right at Acorn, but also some things wrong. The two things I dislike the most is the OS interface, CD, DIR, CAT which to me have all different meanings than I'm used to, and the file system. ( dots as separators, file name length etc ) But we all know what they did right, don't we ? :-) I can live with the keyboard because I'm beyond annoyance (tm). Roger. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Bodamer | Wherever you go, Oracle Europe, Development | There you are. rbodamer@oracle.nl |
gaspar@urz.unibas.ch (02/26/91)
In article <1991Feb25.202045.2240@watdragon.waterloo.edu>, gcwillia@daisy.waterloo.edu (Graeme Williams) writes: > In article <F12RX21w163w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes: >>vanaards%t7@uk.ac.man.cs writes: >> >>What is the point of making the keyboard look just like a PC keyboard, if you >>then make the backspace key perform a CTRL-H and the Delete key perform a >>Backspace?! AAAAARGH! >> >>Has this been fixed yet? I would like to see this fid, too, very much!!! > Its proper the way it is. The PC way of doing things is quite illogical. It may be logical, but since most people (especially outside UK) first lern to use a PC-way-keyboard and since these types of keyboards are probably the majority this 'standart' should be followed. Can you imagine how many people get annoyed by this and especially if they work on PCs AND their Archimedes. > Consider: How many times do you need to delete the character in *front* of > the cursor - usually it isn't even typed yet. If you are correcting a text or programme source it happens all the time! (tells a lot about my programming skills :-)) > Graeme Williams > gcwillia@daisy.waterloo.edu So the solution to please all would be a keyboard driver that has the commands *PC-way, *Logical-way... Who volunteers? laci
ecwu61@castle.ed.ac.uk (R Renwick) (02/26/91)
In article <1991Feb25.161054.6477@cl.cam.ac.uk> bdb@cl.cam.ac.uk (Brian Brunswick) writes: >[Many people muttering about mice, using other mice] > [ STUFF DELETED ] >I saw a completely WONDERFUL DESIGN on a mouse on a Decstation 3100... >It had two entirely separate rollers underneath, each angled with its >axis just off vertical, arranged so that one had an edge touching the >desk up/down and one across. Bingo! No gunge, Only ONE place to slip >instead of two.. Pity the mouse itself is circular... (Yuch) Sun mice are even better in my opinion. They have no moving parts at all!! They use a special mouse mat which is made up of criss-crossed lines. The vertical ones reflect ordinary light and the horizontal reflect infra red. The mouse itself has 2 holes underneath and each hole has a led (transmitter) and some sort of receiver. One led is infra red and the other is ordinary. This allows the mouse to last for a very long time and needs absolutely no cleaning what so ever. The are used continuously by all of the 3rd and 4th year computer science students at Edinburgh Uni. and they very rarely give any bother. The only problem is that our monitor screens are cleaned as often as our mice. :-( Rik
snb90@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Brodie SN) (02/26/91)
cs9h9tts@cybaswan.UUCP (t.simpson) writes: >In article <1991Feb19.160812.20483@cns.umist.ac.uk> vanaards%t7@uk.ac.man.cs writes: >> >> I'm literally fed up with the new Archimedes keyboard, how many times do >>you have to keep cleaning the keyboard contacts - this is the third time in >>the space of 2 weeks ! Okay so its better than the old ones in respect to >>those rubber pads - they were a right pain putting back, but this one needs >>more cleaning. I keep finding the odd key not responding, unless it was hit >wow, someone else with this problem. On my keyboard, the bottom left shift >key and the caps lock won't respond. I guessed it was a cracked track, but >maybe (hopefully) I'm wrong and its only dust in the keyboard. If so, how >do I fix it?. how easy or hard is it to take the keyboard apart and clean >the contacts? >any help mucho apprecieo. >Tom. cs9h9tts@uk.ac.swan.pyr I found that the best way to clean my Caps Lock and left Shift key was to undo all 30 or so tiny screws and dust each individual silvery pad with a delicate brush. You will need a small cross-head screwdriver to disconnect the circuit board from the contact board. Stewart. snb90@uk.ac.soton.ecs
kvj@rhi.hi.is (Kristjan Valur Jonsson) (02/26/91)
In <1991Feb21.143445.22959@fwi.uva.nl> aroest@fwi.uva.nl (Axel Roest (N)) writes: >cs9h9tts@cybaswan.UUCP (t.simpson) writes: >Wow, what do you do with your keyboards? Bang them with hammers and Coke >cans or something? >I have my Arch for 2(3?) years now and I haven't had any serious problems. >Once I dropped a glass of wine into the keyboard and I had to take it apart >and clean it with water. That's all. I don't have a keyboard cover and >I don't live in a clean room. I think the dust gets blown away because >my typing is very fast. :-) >Now I DO have a lot of problems with my mouse. Why did Acorn decide to use >a light plastic ball instead of a heavy, rubbercoated metal one. The >friction between the plastic ball and the metal 'thingies' is very low. >Does someone know a supplier of rubbercoated metal balls with the same >diameter as the ball in the Arch mouse? >I think that will give the mouse a much better 'feeling'. >Axel Firstly, the mouse isn't Acorns, but a ready built design from elsewhere. If you look at a state of the art mouse these days, they all seem to have these new light types of balls. I suspect that the reason is that lighter balls have less inertia (can't remember the correct term for this "axial inertia") and therefore better response. You must be thinking about an old Macintosh mouse. Secondly, I believe I've heard that the acorn Keyboard (Like the mouse) is an "of the shelf product" conforming to some standard or another. This should mean that one should be able to by a replacement keyboard from a PC and hook it up with only changin the DIN plug. Can anyone confirm this? My keyboard is damaged and I might just get a more professional one in stead of an Acorn replacement part. Kristjan
thsa@rhi.hi.is (Thorvaldur S Arnarson) (02/27/91)
In article <2835@krafla.rhi.hi.is> kvj@rhi.hi.is (Kristjan Valur Jonsson) writes: [stuff deleted] |Firstly, the mouse isn't Acorns, but a ready built design from elsewhere. True, but it was presumably not forced upon them! They bear full responsibillity for any flaws the final product may have. |If you look at a state of the art mouse these days, they all seem to |have these new light types of balls. I suspect that the reason is that |lighter balls have less inertia (can't remember the correct term for this |"axial inertia") and therefore better response. You must be thinking about |an old Macintosh mouse. Utter nonsense!!!!! How about the new Logitec mouse, thats fairly state of the art. If the coupling between the ball and the direction sensing mechanism is frictionless the weight of the ball does not matter. If there is friction (yes this is not a textbook on elementary physics!) the weight matters as increased weight decreases the 'sensing friction' vs 'friction between ball and surface' ratio. Inertia???! How fast does your hand/mouse change directions? | |Kristjan | Best regards, Thorvaldur S. Arnarson. -- Regards, Thorvaldur S. Arnarson
ccplumb@rose.uwaterloo.ca (Colin Plumb) (02/27/91)
Someone at Xerox made an even more interesting mouse... it was also optical, but a 2-d array of sensors followed a pattern below. It was normally run on a triangular dot grid (you could always photocopy something in extremis), but it also worked very well on blue jeans, or a sufficiently grungy desk. The whole thing was one chip, installed in a glass-topped case. -- -Colin
kvj@rhi.hi.is (Kristjan Valur Jonsson) (02/28/91)
In <2837@krafla.rhi.hi.is> thsa@rhi.hi.is (Thorvaldur S Arnarson) writes: >In article <2835@krafla.rhi.hi.is> kvj@rhi.hi.is (Kristjan Valur Jonsson) writes: >[stuff deleted] >|If you look at a state of the art mouse these days, they all seem to >|have these new light types of balls. I suspect that the reason is that >|lighter balls have less inertia (can't remember the correct term for this >|"axial inertia") and therefore better response. You must be thinking about >|an old Macintosh mouse. >Utter nonsense!!!!! How about the new Logitec mouse, thats fairly state >of the art. If the coupling between the ball and the direction sensing >mechanism is frictionless the weight of the ball does not matter. If there >is friction (yes this is not a textbook on elementary physics!) the weight >matters as increased weight decreases the 'sensing friction' vs 'friction >between ball and surface' ratio. >Inertia???! How fast does your hand/mouse change directions? True, maximum axial acceleration of the ball without slipping is independend of mass and inversely proportional with it's radius. Since the ball is resting on the table and not being forced down, all internal friction will be proporional to the horisontal force applied, which in turn is proportional to it's mass. Of course, there is some constant internal friction regardless of acceleration since the sensors/rollers are spring loaded. So, I must aggree that a heavier ball would increase the (surface fric.)/(internal fric.) ratio. But why then has the trend in mouse design been towards lighter balls? Surely it would be easy enough to make them heavy as rocks. The Logitech mice connected here (vetrarholl) are as new as they get but are of the same light type as Arc mice. I hope someone knows (preferably mouse designers) :-0 ^ look, an indifferent smiley! >Best regards, > Thorvaldur S. Arnarson. >-- > Regards, > Thorvaldur S. Arnarson Rgds, Kristjan
kvj@rhi.hi.is (Kristjan Valur Jonsson) (02/28/91)
In <1991Feb27.004015.6730@watdragon.waterloo.edu> ccplumb@rose.uwaterloo.ca (Colin Plumb) writes: >Someone at Xerox made an even more interesting mouse... it was also optical, >but a 2-d array of sensors followed a pattern below. It was normally >run on a triangular dot grid (you could always photocopy something in >extremis), but it also worked very well on blue jeans, or a sufficiently >grungy desk. >The whole thing was one chip, installed in a glass-topped case. >-- > -Colin Yep, I have seen it on some workstations and it looks good too. How did it perform (resolution, reliability?) And why isn't this the standard? Kristjan
mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) (02/28/91)
gcwillia@daisy.waterloo.edu (Graeme Williams) writes: > In article <F12RX21w163w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes: > >What is the point of making the keyboard look just like a PC keyboard, if yo > >then make the backspace key perform a CTRL-H and the Delete key perform a > >Backspace?! AAAAARGH! > > Its proper the way it is. The PC way of doing things is quite illogical. > (Unix systems also seem to do things the PC way, but that isn't a good > reason to follow - Unix is nearly as ugly as a PC. One crowd that does > do things properly are Digital with their VAX/VMS systems.) So one other company has one product series which uses the key above return as a CTRL-H key rather than as a backspace-and-delete key. That's hardly an endorsement of the position. Pardon me if I'm being obtuse, but I thought that the purpose of a keyboard was to allow people to enter data; clearly, therefore, it is a bad idea to make your keyboard behave in a different way to 99% of the keyboards out there, yet make it look exactly the same. If Acorn wanted to do their own thing, they should have made the keyboard look different; they could have placed the delete key in the same position as it is on the BBC Micro. Having a keyboard which looks standard but behaves oddly is just stupid. > Consider: How many times do you need to delete the character in *front* of > the cursor - usually it isn't even typed yet. Every time I use a text editor. > So shouldn't a DELETE key > do what it says, namely delete the character just typed. It doesn't say "back-delete", it says "delete". It's equally sensible (if not more so) to have it delete the character which the cursor is currently flashing under. > I understand your frustration, I get frustrated swapping betwixt > machines too. Only I view things the other way: "WHY WHY WHY can't IBM > and Unix systems do things logically? - Are they so incompetent?" What's logical about dedicating a big key on the keyboard to performing a useless function like typing a CTRL-H? mathew.
garyb@abekrd.co.uk (Gary Bartlett) (03/01/91)
In <8729@castle.ed.ac.uk> ecwu61@castle.ed.ac.uk (R Renwick) writes: > Sun mice are even better in my opinion. > This allows the mouse to last for a very long time and needs >absolutely no cleaning what so ever. Ah, but those felt pads need cleaning all the time otherwise the mouse ends up stuck to the mat and won't budge! > The only problem is that our monitor screens are cleaned as >often as our mice. :-( Oh, if only we were that lucky. Here, we have cleaners who insist every night on running their filthy cloths across our monitor screens - you can imagine the smudgy mess that's left :-(((( Gary -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary C. Bartlett NET: garyb@abekrd.co.uk Abekas Video Systems Ltd. UUCP: ...!uunet!mcsun!ukc!pyrltd!abekrd!garyb 12 Portman Rd, Reading, PHONE: +44 734 585421
x51@nikhefh.nikhef.nl (Excursiecommissie) (03/05/91)
Sorry folks, I lost the reference... (shame on me) >>[stuff deleted] >them heavy as rocks. The Logitech mice connected here (vetrarholl) are as >new as they get but are of the same light type as Arc mice. >Rgds, Kristjan The Logitech (and all other new) mice I see all have lighter balls, but they are coated with a rubber surface. The main difference between Archie balls (pun intended) and other mice balls seems to be the coating of the ball. A friend of mine suggested that the nylon gliders could also be cause of some trouble. He beliefs that the circular gliders are getting oval, thus causing very irregular motion. Most other mice have steel gliders. I must say his mouse motion is really awful, you have to use special tricks to get the thing going, like: First move to the right and above, then you can go downwards. This however is not very user friendly in a menu driven environment... Axel
thsa@rhi.hi.is (Thorvaldur S Arnarson) (03/05/91)
In article <1991Feb24.105353.2791@abekrd.co.uk> garyb@abekrd.co.uk (Gary Bartlett) writes: [stuff deleted ] |One thing that does annoy me with this monitor though (which may also be true |of the Acorn-badged model?) is the fact that although it advertises as having |stereo speakers accessible through the Scart connector, it doesn't tell you |that the two signals it requires are SUM and DIFFERENCE signals --- ie one |signal needs L + R, the other L - R --- most annoying! --- you can't just wire |in your Archimedes' sound output direct (well you can but it does weird |things when you pan the sound from left to right). Does anyone make an |adapter? | | +-------+ | | | | L ------> -------> L + R | | | | R ------> -------> L - R | | | | +-------+ | | |Gary The cirquit below might do the job. If all resistors are equally large the amplification is 1. The OP amps are usually packed 4 in a simgle IC so this shouldn't be too bulky. R o---/\/\/\--o---/\/\/\--o o--/\/\/\--o | | | | | |\ | | |\ | L o---/\/\/\--o---| >-----o----/\/\/\--o---| >----o----> R+L -+|/ -+|/ | | 0 0 R o-------------------------/\/\/\--o--/\/\/\--o | | o--/\/\/\--o | | | | | | | |\ | | |\ | L o---/\/\/\--o--| >-----o--/\/\/\--o--| >-----o-------> R-L -+|/ -+|/ | | 0 0 + denotes the noninverting input 0 denotes ground Good luck. -- Regards, Thorvaldur S. Arnarson