kjetilho@ifi.uio.no (Kjetil Torgrim Homme) (04/23/91)
In article <3^?_5|&@warwick.ac.uk> maumg@warwick.ac.uk (Pop Mobility Freak) writes: > This version of PlaceIt needs the Message Trans module to run but I cannot > provide that as I would need a licence from Acorn and I am not prepared to > spend money to let others use my program (boy ain't I a skinflint. But the > MessageTrans is provided by a lot of new applications such as version 2 of > the printer drivers (where I got it from) and Impression Junior (so I am > told). > This is just another example of Acorn rendering my machine useless, unless I spend #'s all the time to get all these new modules. Where is the logic behind this? I don't believe in buying software. OK, so I bought Norcroft C, so I have a legitimate copy of the now out-of-date Clib 3.50! How much am I expected to pay for an upgrade, which program which uses the MessageTrans is the cheapest? I'm sick and tired seeing PD and ShareWare rendered useless because I have to old modules, or even don't have them, since they didn't come with my machine when I bought them (like the printer driver, I think) WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS, ACORN!!! IT'S RUINED THE JOY I USED TO GET FROM MY ARCHIMEDES! Kjetil T.
bcockburn@acorn.co.uk (Bruce Cockburn) (04/24/91)
Kjetil, Althoug I may be biased towards Acorn (they pay my mortgage) I feel that you have been unfair. Why is Acorn being unfair when it makes new versions of it's modules available? Surely the people being unfair are those thoughtless writers of PD and ShareWare software that taunt you with programs that don't work on a standard RISC OS 2.00 machine. It is their use of modules, such as MessageTrans and SharedCLibrary that is unfair. Acorn does not force software vendors to use these modules, we do recommend that they are used and yes we do charge a license fee for our time and effort (we do have to make a living you know). You say that you have SharedCLibrary 3.50 which came as part of a software package that you bought, this is good. What software is it that you have which needs a version more recent than this. Surely it is this software vendor who has "ruined the joy" for you? Bruce.
bcockburn@acorn.co.uk (Bruce Cockburn) (04/24/91)
References: <KJETILHO.91Apr23131148@holmenkollen.ifi.uio.no> Distribution: comp Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England Kjetil, Althoug I may be biased towards Acorn (they pay my mortgage) I feel that you have been unfair. Why is Acorn being unfair when it makes new versions of it's modules available? Surely the people being unfair are those thoughtless writers of PD and ShareWare software that taunt you with programs that don't work on a standard RISC OS 2.00 machine. It is their use of modules, such as MessageTrans and SharedCLibrary that is unfair. Acorn does not force software vendors to use these modules, we do recommend that they are used and yes we do charge a license fee for our time and effort (we do have to make a living you know). You say that you have SharedCLibrary 3.50 which came as part of a software package that you bought, this is good. What software is it that you have which needs a version more recent than this. Surely it is this software vendor who has "ruined the joy" for you? Bruce.
dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk (Denis Howe) (04/25/91)
I too would like to use the new !PlaceIt but don't have MessageTrans. I don't criticise Acorn for upgrading their software or even criticise people for using the upgraded software (gosh, what a nice guy I am :-)). I just want to know where I can buy MessageTrans without having to pay for a wordprocessor or printer drivers that I don't want. Do I have to wait for RiscOS 3? -- Denis Howe <dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk> C-C H558A Imperial College London C-C-C +44 (71) 589 5111 x5064 N=N
osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith) (04/25/91)
In article <KJETILHO.91Apr23131148@holmenkollen.ifi.uio.no> kjetilho@ifi.uio.no (Kjetil Torgrim Homme) writes: >WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS, ACORN!!! IT'S RUINED THE JOY I USED TO GET FROM MY >ARCHIMEDES! In the case of the SharedCLibrary, I agree with BCockburn. It is the people releasing/posting software that only works with a new version that are ruining the joy for you. CLib 3.50 is perfectly adequate for nearly all programs. I suspect in many cases people just build with the latest they have on their machine and post the software to the info server without bothering to think that the dodgy version of the CLib they have "obtained" may not be widely available to all potential users of their programs. It's not difficult to build your program for CLib 3.50 so come on guys get your act together and stop giving Acorn a bad name by your own thoughtless and selfish actions. Many thanks to PMF for his work on rebuilding the GNU utilities - whoever posted them needing CLib 3.69 should hang their head in shame. I believe that MicroEmacs is also an offender. MessageTrans, on the other hand, is a completely different kettle of fish. There is no widely available version, so if you want to be a good european and release an internationalised version of your software, you are stuffed. The closest to an official release is the one on the release 2 printer drivers disk, but I suspect that very few people have that with the exception of people who have bought the German variant of the A3000. I believe this is a sorry state of affairs, and Acorn should make MessageTrans more widely available to encourage people to internationalise their software. A good start would be to post the version on the release 2 printer drivers to comp.binaries.acorn. I'd post it myself but I'm not sure I'm allowed to. Note that Impression Junior does not use MessageTrans. Impression release 2 and Impression Junior do have Messages files which seem to be in MessageTrans format, but you try finding the MessageTrans module anywhere on the disk. I believe Computer Concepts has their own variant. Owen. The views expressed are my own and are not necessarily those of Acorn.
csuwr@warwick.ac.uk (Derek Hunter) (04/25/91)
In article <6642@acorn.co.uk> bcockburn@acorn.co.uk (Bruce Cockburn) writes: [About software writers who use predated modules] I certainly fully agree with Bruce's comments. I must admit that I'm more of a consumer than a producer, but what I have written does only use RISC 2. Can't Acorn do something about this specifically? How about a clause to forbid software issues which use the newer modules? I doubt they have issued upgrade ROMs yet, so to test them, vendors only need use those modules in RISC 2 anyway. (ie RMEnsure only those in ROM/!System on App1, or the bugfixes given away free.) If anyone has 'lost' their App1 orginals, the higher versions should still work anyway (Isn't that what RMEnsure was for anyway? Not simply to check whether the modules were in there at all?) Maybe the clause is in there anyway, and I suppose it's only really the PD fraternity which causes this problem since the commercial bunch will have a license to distribute the new modules. At the moment, some of my copies of the newest modules are living in a !Ularn application. Makes some amusing requests appear from time-to-time. Personally, (and in particular), I am not going to bother using MessageTrans, even when in ROM, until Acorn get their advertising policy sorted out and visibly do some in non English-speaking countries. (Depression problems accepted.) - Derek Hunter .-------------------------------------------------------------. | Where have all the lexemes gone? // Long time parsing . . . | `-------------------------------------------------------------'
nbvs@cl.cam.ac.uk (Nicko van Someren) (04/26/91)
In article <DBH.91Apr25123038@asun4.doc.ic.ac.uk> dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk (Denis Howe) writes: > I just want to know where I can buy MessageTrans without having >to pay for a wordprocessor or printer drivers that I don't want. I was under the impression that the new printer drivers were free from your dealer or from SID. Do tell me if I am wrong. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Nicko van Someren, nbvs@cl.cam.ac.uk, (44) 223 358707 or (44) 860 498903 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk (Denis Howe) (04/26/91)
In article <6691@acorn.co.uk> osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith) writes: >I believe >this is a sorry state of affairs, and Acorn should make MessageTrans more >widely available to encourage people to internationalise their software. A >good start would be to post the version on the release 2 printer drivers to >comp.binaries.acorn. I'd post it myself but I'm not sure I'm allowed to. Sounds like a sackable offence - posting liscenced software into the PD! >Impression release 2 >and Impression Junior do have Messages files which seem to be in MessageTrans >format, but you try finding the MessageTrans module anywhere on the disk. I >believe Computer Concepts has their own variant. Yes, some applications just use a few lines of Basic to parse the file and do substitutions, pretty easy in ARM code too I reckon. It seems to me that Acorn could well make more money from this sort of thing by giving it away than by selling it. -- Denis Howe <dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk> C-C H558A Imperial College London C-C-C +44 (71) 589 5111 x5064 N=N
cstaqdb@warwick.ac.uk (Tom Hughes) (04/26/91)
In article <1991Apr26.000139.9892@cl.cam.ac.uk> nbvs@cl.cam.ac.uk (Nicko van Someren) writes: >In article <DBH.91Apr25123038@asun4.doc.ic.ac.uk> dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk (Denis Howe) writes: >> I just want to know where I can buy MessageTrans without having >>to pay for a wordprocessor or printer drivers that I don't want. >I was under the impression that the new printer drivers were free from your >dealer or from SID. Do tell me if I am wrong. If the drivers are available on SID, could Alan Glover not make them the first SID utilities he posts to c.b.a? ============================================================================ Tom Hughes, CS1 thughes@uk.ac.warwick.cs Room 112 Compton Hall cstaqdb@uk.ac.warwick.cu Westwood University of Warwick (0203) 523523 X2927 Coventry CV4 8EE ============================================================================
mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) (04/29/91)
dbh@doc.ic.ac.uk (Denis Howe) writes: > In article <6691@acorn.co.uk> osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith) writes: > >good start would be to post the version on the release 2 printer drivers to > >comp.binaries.acorn. I'd post it myself but I'm not sure I'm allowed to. > > Sounds like a sackable offence - posting liscenced software into the PD! Who said anything about the public domain? mathew -- If you're a John Foxx fan, please mail me!