cca@dcs.exeter.ac.uk (Clive Carmock) (05/10/91)
I gather that to use a SCSI interface on the R140, I have to use the Acorn interface, as this has extra circuitry for RISC iX. DOes anyone know if any similar things apply to ARM3 upgrades for the R140. Has anyone added an ARM3 to an R140 - if so I'd be interested in any comments. Thanks Clive Carmock cca@dcs.exeter.ac.uk
news@cl.cam.ac.uk (The news facility) (05/11/91)
In article <3305@izar.dcs.exeter.ac.uk> cca@dcs.exeter.ac.uk (Clive Carmock) writes: >I gather that to use a SCSI interface on the R140, I have to use >the Acorn interface, as this has extra circuitry for RISC iX. > >DOes anyone know if any similar things apply to ARM3 upgrades for >the R140. >Has anyone added an ARM3 to an R140 - if so I'd be interested in any comments. From: nbvs@cl.cam.ac.uk (Nicko van Someren) Path: cl.cam.ac.uk!nbvs ARM3s run fine in R140s since about RISCiX 1.14 or so. The code in 1.2 that we have in the lab here seems to work better as I think it is more careful about when it flushes the cache. However, the performence improvment on an R140 is not as dramatic as under RISC OS, things tend to run about 70-100% faster instead of the usual 200-300%. Tests I have done seem to indicate that adding another 4MB of RAM makes at least as much difference as an ARM3 if you are running the X server software as the working set gets very large. An ARM3 and 8MB together have almost additive gain in performance. The other problem with the R140 that has been fixed on the R260 is the disk speed. The st506 disk is far too slow for a swap device, especially since it does not have DMA so the processor is tied up all the time the memory is being paged. I think (I have not tried it) that the performance will improve you get rid of the st506 drive and put if a SCSI one. Giving it an ARM3, 8MB RAM and a SCSI disk will make it go quite well, but then again you then almost have an R260. On the subject of whos SCSI card you can use, I expect that you can only use the ones from Acorn unless you have the kernel source. If it is anything like the ethernet code there is little or no modularity in it, and certainly no way to add support for new hardware without a recompile. Nicko +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Nicko van Someren, nbvs@cl.cam.ac.uk, (44) 223 358707 or (44) 860 498903 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
rknight@gec-rl-hrc.co.uk (Roger Knight (B21)) (05/20/91)
In article <1991May11.102642.20136@cl.cam.ac.uk> nbvs@cl.cam.ac.uk (Nicko van Someren) writes: > >I think (I have not tried it) that the performance will improve you get rid of >the st506 drive and put if a SCSI one. Giving it an ARM3, 8MB RAM and a SCSI >disk will make it go quite well, but then again you then almost have an R260. > I bought an Acorn SCSI card for my R140 when they first came out and added a Seagate St1096 as the boot device for RISCix. However my tests showed the SCSI disc was exactly the same speed as the internal ST506 so I repartitioned it without a swap partition and booted it from the internal disc again! Does anyone out there know about the "new" version of RISCix (with MOTIF-X) for the R140? Surely it must be ready for release by now? I phoned Granada about it before Easter and they said it wasn't covered by my software maintenance and I would have to buy it (even if I didn't want their external disc 'cos I've already got one). Since then its gone very quiet. Roger Knight rknight@gec-rl-hrc.co.uk
gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Dave Gilbert) (05/21/91)
On the subject of upgrading RiscIx. Well not exactly. There was an Acorn Demo here about a week or so ago - they said that the A540 would be upgradable to an R260 - for about #900-#1600 - this includes a 100MB hard drive which it is loaded on. Dave -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Dave Gilbert - gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk - The MTBF of a piece of equipment - - G7FHJ@GB7NWP - is inversly proportional to its - ------------------------------------------- importance -
gtoal@castle.ed.ac.uk (G Toal) (05/22/91)
In article <gilbertd.674811545@p4.cs.man.ac.uk> gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Dave Gilbert) writes:
:On the subject of upgrading RiscIx. Well not exactly. There was an Acorn
:Demo here about a week or so ago - they said that the A540 would be
:upgradable to an R260 - for about #900-#1600 - this includes a 100MB hard drive
:which it is loaded on.
Oh no, not again. WHAT ABOUT JUST THE SOFTWARE, ACORN???????
Pretty please?
Ggilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Dave Gilbert) (05/23/91)
>Oh no, not again. WHAT ABOUT JUST THE SOFTWARE, ACORN???????
I would agree - but you said Oh no, not again - is that just a reference
to Acorns frequently strange systems or have they distributed software
like that before? Any way I was told there are people doing Mach for the Arc,
so where are you and when will it be available.
Dave
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Dave Gilbert - gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk - The MTBF of a piece of equipment -
- G7FHJ@GB7NWP - is inversly proportional to its -
------------------------------------------- importance -nbvs@cl.cam.ac.uk (Nicko van Someren) (05/23/91)
In article <10434@castle.ed.ac.uk> gtoal@castle.ed.ac.uk (G Toal) writes: >In article <gilbertd.674811545@p4.cs.man.ac.uk> gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Dave Gilbert) writes: >:On the subject of upgrading RiscIx. Well not exactly. There was an Acorn >:Demo here about a week or so ago - they said that the A540 would be >:upgradable to an R260 - for about #900-#1600 - this includes a 100MB hard drive >:which it is loaded on. > >Oh no, not again. WHAT ABOUT JUST THE SOFTWARE, ACORN??????? As I recall the reasone Acorn can not sell just the software is that the Licence they have on the original sources stops them from doing so. I think that selling a preloaded disc is a very good compromise (if not what AT&T had in mind when they wrote the contract). Furthermore you get a free Connor 100MB drive into the deal ;-) Nicko +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Nicko van Someren, nbvs@cl.cam.ac.uk, (44) 223 358707 or (44) 860 498903 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
cca@dcs.exeter.ac.uk (Clive Carmock) (05/23/91)
So upgrades to RISC iX on the R140 ARE going to continue then? I must say I thought that when the R200 series arrived that Acorn would quietly ignore the R140's. Surely though we don;t HAVE to buy a complete hard disk package from Acorn to upgrade? It's a bit hard on those of us that have ALREADY bought the Acorn SCSI podule and an External hard drive. Are newer R140's derivative of the A440 or 440/1? Finally is RISC iX 1.13 the 'current' version for the R140 range? Clive Carmock cca@dcs.exeter.ac.uk
zzassgl@uts.mcc.ac.uk (Geoff Lane) (05/23/91)
In article <gilbertd.674986961@p4.cs.man.ac.uk> gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Dave Gilbert) writes: >like that before? Any way I was told there are people doing Mach for the Arc, >so where are you and when will it be available. There is a video available from OSF of a lecture given by the people who ported Mach. Sorry I no longer have the order form so can't give further details - call OSF for more info. -- Geoff. Lane. Janet: zzassgl@uk.ac.mcc.cms UTS Sys Admin, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Rd, Manchester, M13 9PL
gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Dave Gilbert) (05/24/91)
>in mind when they wrote the contract). Furthermore you get a free Connor 100MB
Perhaps Nicko's idea of 'free' is different from mine?
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Dave Gilbert - gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk - The MTBF of a piece of equipment -
- G7FHJ@GB7NWP - is inversly proportional to its -
------------------------------------------- importance -dbell@acorn.co.uk (Dave Bell) (05/24/91)
In article <3411@izar.dcs.exeter.ac.uk> cca@dcs.exeter.ac.uk (Clive Carmock) writes: >So upgrades to RISC iX on the R140 ARE going to continue then? >I must say I thought that when the R200 series arrived that Acorn >would quietly ignore the R140's. > >Surely though we don;t HAVE to buy a complete hard disk package >from Acorn to upgrade? It's a bit hard on those of us that have >ALREADY bought the Acorn SCSI podule and an External hard drive. > >Are newer R140's derivative of the A440 or 440/1? > >Finally is RISC iX 1.13 the 'current' version for the R140 range? Yes, upgrades for R140 machines based on RISC iX 1.2 are just becoming available. They can be ordered from any Acorn RISC iX dealer, and will be installed by Granada Microcare. Pricing starts from #349 for R140 owners already registered for support from Granada and who have the disk space. There are upgrade routes for A440/A540 owners and prices vary for both A440/A540 and R140 depending upon whether additional disc space is available. Granada can supply via the Dealer order any additional hard disk and SCSI card needed. RISC iX 1.2 does use much more disc space than 1.13. If you wish to find out more, please contact an Acorn RISC iX dealer or Microcare on (0234) 226866 in the UK or via email support@mcare.uucp. An R140 as a hardware platform is equivalent to a 440/1 platform, but can be derived from either a 440 or a 440/1. RISC iX 1.13 remains the standard R140 version. There are minor patches or workarounds beyond this that may be relevant to a few users. Please contact Microcare for advice if you are registered for support or wish to be. Hope this helps. David Bell, Support Group Manager
gtoal@castle.ed.ac.uk (G Toal) (05/25/91)
In article <gilbertd.674986961@p4.cs.man.ac.uk> gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Dave Gilbert) writes: >>Oh no, not again. WHAT ABOUT JUST THE SOFTWARE, ACORN??????? > >I would agree - but you said Oh no, not again - is that just a reference >to Acorns frequently strange systems or have they distributed software >like that before? Any way I was told there are people doing Mach for the Arc, >so where are you and when will it be available. It was partly just a comment on Acorn's really strange marketing strategies in general, and partly a comment on bundling hardware and software by the industry at large. You try getting software to back up your standard SCSI winchester to standard SCSI tape drive without being sold the tape drive along with it. Since hardware for the PC world is half the price of the equivalent for Acorn kit (for example I bought my 330Mb winchester at 900 pounds including vat) it's *incredibly* frustrating when you can't use it! :-) G