jmatrow@ncrwic.Wichita.NCR.COM (John Matrow) (02/14/91)
From the Novell Mailling List: From: Janet Perry <janetp%NOVELL.COM@uga.cc.uga.edu> NOVELL INTRODUCES NETWARE NFS Transparent NetWare Integration for UNIX Systems BOSTON, Mass., NETWORLD -- February 11, 1991 -- Novell, Inc., developer of NetWare systems software products, today introduced NetWare NFS, a new service for the NetWare v3.11 network operating system that gives UNIX users transparent integration with NetWare file systems and resources. NetWare NFS, Novell's implementation of Sun Microsystems' Network File System standard, is a set of NetWare Loadable Modules (NLMs) that allows NetWare v3.11 to provide native file and print services for UNIX clients. It also lets clients share NetWare files and resources with DOS, Macintosh, OS/2 and Windows clients. NetWare NFS requires no additional client software and runs as a service on the TCP/IP protocol stack provided in the NetWare v3.11 server. "Desktop capabilities are evolving, and many users are opting for the performance and functionality of today's UNIX workstations. As a result, network managers need a networking architecture that supports freedom of choice among desktop systems," said Bob Davis, director of product marketing at Novell's San Jose development center. "Only NetWare is capable of supporting all popular desktop computing environments and integrating them into an efficient information system while preserving their native interfaces. Now, with NetWare NFS, UNIX users join DOS, Windows, OS/2 and Macintosh users as peers within the NetWare environment." NetWare NFS provides the following services: -o- Transparent integration of UNIX workstations into the NetWare environment -- UNIX users access NetWare services through their familiar command set, while other NetWare clients view UNIX files from the perspective of their native file systems. UNIX clients attach to NetWare servers via the UNIX "mount" command, view the NetWare file system as an extension of the distributed UNIX file systems, access NetWare print queues through the UNIX "lpr" command and transfer files to and from the server via FTP (File Transfer Protocol). -o- Integration of UNIX host systems with NetWare workgroups -- By linking large, multi-user UNIX systems to NetWare via NetWare NFS, network managers can create paths that allow UNIX users to access NetWare files and resources, providing a cost-effective connectivity solution between UNIX host systems and the NetWare environment. -o- High-performance NFS file server functionality -- By using NetWare NFS as a UNIX workgroup file server, users benefit from traditional NetWare strengths such as fault tolerance, security and resource management. NetWare NFS, running on standard platforms, provides a cost-effective means to bring high-end NFS server performance and functionality to UNIX users. PRICING AND AVAILABILITY In the United States and Canada, NetWare NFS lists for U.S. $4995 and will be available in April 1991 from all Novell Platinum resellers and qualified Novell Gold resellers. Customers currently using the Education Account Purchase Program for NetWare will be able to buy a site license version of this product. For more information: Janet Perry Novell, Inc. 415-975-4480 janetp@ca.novell.com -- John Matrow 6091 Engineering, NCR Peripheral Products Division NCR:654-8851 <J.Matrow@Wichita.NCR.COM> (316)636-8851 <uunet!ncrlnk!ncrwic!j.matrow> FAX:636-8889 "I fought the LAN and the... LAN won."
dwd@usenet.umr.edu (Dan DeNise) (02/18/91)
>From: Janet Perry <janetp%NOVELL.COM@uga.cc.uga.edu> [text deleted] >NetWare NFS provides the following services: > >-o- Transparent integration of UNIX workstations into the >NetWare environment -- UNIX users access NetWare services >through their familiar command set, while other NetWare >clients view UNIX files from the perspective of their >native file systems. UNIX clients attach to NetWare >servers via the UNIX "mount" command, view the NetWare file >system as an extension of the distributed UNIX file >systems, access NetWare print queues through the UNIX "lpr" >command and transfer files to and from the server via FTP >(File Transfer Protocol). [text deleted] >Janet Perry >Novell, Inc. >415-975-4480 >janetp@ca.novell.com This handles unix hosts accessing novell services. What about novell clients accessing unix services? Any facilities for a novell server mounting NFS volumes and providing access to them for it's DOS, Mac, and OS/2 clients? How about sending jobs from a Novell print queue to an lpd daemon on the Unix side? Is this a one or two way gateway? Dan DeNise c0016@umrvmb.umr.edu Computing Services (314)341-4841 University of Missouri-Rolla 114 Math/Computer Science Missouri's Technological University Rolla, Missouri, 65401
9531sons@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Jamie Sonsini) (02/19/91)
Thanks for posting this entry. We are just in the process of moving a Netware 386 server (token ring attached ) into the same location as two Sun systems (3/50 & 3/280) which are on a local ethernet LAN. The Netware system is new and has no tape backup (yet) and I was thinking that it would sure be handy if we could use the Exabyte tape drive which is attached to our Sun 3/50. Just put an ethernet card into the Netware server. From reading this posting, it looks like NFS support would let us use the Unix backup (dump and restore) programs to backup our Netware server. Does this make sense? Anyone tried this? Are there alternate ways we could do this without buying NFS support? Thanks, Jamie Sonsini UC Santa Barbara 9531sons@ucsbvm.bitnet
brian@la.excelan.com (Brian Meek) (02/20/91)
The News Manager) Nntp-Posting-Host: la Reply-To: brian@la.novell.com (Brian Meek) Organization: Novell, Inc., San Jose, Califonia References: <6434@ncrwic.Wichita.NCR.COM> <9204@hub.ucsb.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 1991 18:13:41 GMT In article <9204@hub.ucsb.edu> 9531sons@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Jamie Sonsini) writes: > >Thanks for posting this entry. We are just in the process of moving a >Netware 386 server (token ring attached ) into the same location as two >Sun systems (3/50 & 3/280) which are on a local ethernet LAN. The >Netware system is new and has no tape backup (yet) and I was thinking >that it would sure be handy if we could use the Exabyte tape drive >which is attached to our Sun 3/50. Just put an ethernet card into the >Netware server. > >From reading this posting, it looks like NFS support would let us use >the Unix backup (dump and restore) programs to backup our Netware >server. Does this make sense? Anyone tried this? Are there alternate >ways we could do this without buying NFS support? > Sure, it will work... but not the way I think you want it to. Unix dump of the NetWare filesystem to a Unix tape will only get the files themselves and the _Unix_ file attributes. Mac, DOS and OS/2 namespace, nor the NetWare bindery information would not get backed up. Sounds like an opportunity for vendors of Unix based backup systems :-). brian ____________________________________________________________________________ Brian Meek Novell, Inc. - 2180 Fortune Dr. San Jose, CA 95131 Internet Mail: brian@novell.COM Phone: (408) 473-8375
brian@la.excelan.com (Brian Meek) (02/20/91)
The News Manager) Nntp-Posting-Host: la Reply-To: brian@la.excelan.com (Brian Meek) Organization: Excelan, Inc., San Jose, Califonia References: <6434@ncrwic.Wichita.NCR.COM> <2188@umriscc.isc.umr.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 1991 17:57:48 GMT In article <2188@umriscc.isc.umr.edu> comp.sys.novell writes: >>From: Janet Perry <janetp%NOVELL.COM@uga.cc.uga.edu> > >[text deleted] > >>NetWare NFS provides the following services: >> >>-o- Transparent integration of UNIX workstations into the >>NetWare environment -- UNIX users access NetWare services >>through their familiar command set, while other NetWare >>clients view UNIX files from the perspective of their >>native file systems. UNIX clients attach to NetWare >>servers via the UNIX "mount" command, view the NetWare file >>system as an extension of the distributed UNIX file >>systems, access NetWare print queues through the UNIX "lpr" >>command and transfer files to and from the server via FTP >>(File Transfer Protocol). > >[text deleted] > >This handles unix hosts accessing novell services. What about novell >clients accessing unix services? Any facilities for a novell server >mounting NFS volumes and providing access to them for it's DOS, Mac, >and OS/2 clients? How about sending jobs from a Novell print queue to >an lpd daemon on the Unix side? Is this a one or two way gateway? > >Dan DeNise c0016@umrvmb.umr.edu > NetWare NFS was not designed to provide access to remotely mounted NFS volumes for NetWare clients. NetWare NFS was targeted at the Unix users who want high performance access to shared NetWare resources. I should point out that Portable NetWare provides the feature you are looking for. One Unix machine, with multiple remote NFS volumes mounted, can load up Portable NetWare and offer that distributed Unix file system as one big NetWare volume to any NetWare client. Portable NetWare is an integration product. So is NetWare NFS, but NetWare NFS is really a targeted solution for Unix clients to NetWare servers. brian ____________________________________________________________________________ Brian Meek Novell, Inc. - 2180 Fortune Dr. San Jose, CA 95131 Internet Mail: brian@novell.COM Phone: (408) 473-8375
brian@cimage.com (Brian Kelley) (02/21/91)
In article <6434@ncrwic.Wichita.NCR.COM> jmatrow@ncrwic.Wichita.NCR.COM (John Matrow) writes: >From the Novell Mailling List: > >NOVELL INTRODUCES NETWARE NFS > >"Desktop capabilities are evolving, and many users are >opting for the performance and functionality of today's >UNIX workstations. As a result, network managers need a >networking architecture that supports freedom of choice >among desktop systems," said Bob Davis, director of product >marketing at Novell's San Jose development center. "Only >NetWare is capable of supporting all popular desktop >computing environments and integrating them into an >efficient information system while preserving their native >interfaces. Now, with NetWare NFS, UNIX users join DOS, >Windows, OS/2 and Macintosh users as peers within the >NetWare environment." If they can afford it. If they can't, I guess they'll move everything to their UNIX hosts and dump Novell? >In the United States and Canada, NetWare NFS lists for U.S. >$4995 and will be available in April 1991 from all Novell >Platinum resellers and qualified Novell Gold resellers. >Customers currently using the Education Account Purchase >Program for NetWare will be able to buy a site license version >of this product. Would someone at Novell care to explain why this product costs $5000? That's a lot of money for what is basically a a big TSR (which also happens to be version 1.00000). The big initial hype of 3.0 was increased connectivity and TCP/IP support. I think most of us thought that the $8K price tag paid for that. I guess I was quite wrong. While the pricing for new copies of Netware 3.11 have been posted, I have not seen any prices for upgrades. How much will 3.1 -> 3.11 upgrades be if you've already used your 1 free upgrade (from 3.0 to 3.1)? From what I understand, buyers of 3.0 who registered were promised the Mac NLM when it became available. Because the Mac NLM requires 3.11, I've been told that 3.11 will thrown in for free (and you choose how many users you require).
keith@ca.excelan.com (Keith Brown) (02/22/91)
The News Manager) Nntp-Posting-Host: ca Reply-To: keith@ca.excelan.com (Keith Brown) Organization: Novell, Inc., San Jose, Califonia References: <6434@ncrwic.Wichita.NCR.COM> <1991Feb21.144302.18780@cimage.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 1991 23:49:00 GMT In article <1991Feb21.144302.18780@cimage.com> brian@dgsi.UUCP (Brian Kelley) writes: > >Would someone at Novell care to explain why this product costs $5000? >That's a lot of money for what is basically a a big TSR (which also happens >to be version 1.00000). Sure. I'll have to have a go at this without sounding too commercial though! Before I start, our first release of NetWare NFS is v1.1, NOT 1.00000. Anyway..... The NetWare NFS product that we've been developing here over the last couple of years or so is, in my personal words (not Novells), a screamer! When the pricing was done, we compared the product against UNIX based NFS servers. I'm an old UNIX hack myself, and still a big fan of UNIX in fact, however, clearly the UNIX OS design is geared toward making it a great interactive operating system, not a great file server. Unlike UNIX, the NetWare operating system design is highly optimised for providing "back end" transactional type network services to client systems. NetWare doesn't carry with it all the additional baggage that makes UNIX such a great interactive OS. NetWare does no swapping and paging to disk, it does not have to set up and tear down virtual machine environments for service processes, no unnecessary internal buffer copies are required to copy data between user and kernel space (Everything is kernel space in in NetWare OSs, consequently NetWare NFS transmits data directly from the disk cache to the network on client reads and shifts data directly from LSL (network) buffers to the disk cache on writes). Of particular importance to NFS is the speed at which NetWare can switch context between threads. NetWare achieves context switches in just a few microseconds. Put simply a NetWare context switch is nothing more than a save of processor registers, a chase down a data structure to find the next runable thread, and a reload of registers. Transactional protocols requiring disk IO, like NFS, generally mean lots of context switches have to take place at the server. What all this really adds up to is that, when judged as an NFS server alongside UNIX servers, NetWare NFS gives you a great deal more bang for the buck! Use the product on a cheap 386SX server platform and you've just purchased yourself the cheapest NFS server you'll find. Use the product on something a little more meaty, such as a SystemPro, a NetFrame or a Tricord and you have yourself an NFS server capable of pounding through in excess of 400 NFS operations a second. To add to this, all of NetWare v3.11s fault tolerent capabilities (disk mirroring, duplexing, UPS support, read after write verify etc...) are applicable to NetWare NFS (we inherited them from the OS for free :-). You'd have to part with some serious money to get these in a UNIX based NFS server platform, if you could find them at all. Aside from all of this, the files that are accesible to UNIX systems via NetWare NFS are also transparently accessible to DOS systems (free with the OS), Macintosh systems (bit more money) and OS/2 systems (tiny bit more money) concurrently. When was the last time you saw a UNIX system that could manage all of this straight out of the box? > The big initial hype of 3.0 was increased >connectivity and TCP/IP support. I think most of us thought that the $8K >price tag paid for that. I guess I was quite wrong. The entry price of NetWare v3.11 is now $3,495 (20 user). Updates and upgrades are even cheaper than this, but to answer your specific questions.... > >While the pricing for new copies of Netware 3.11 have been posted, I have >not seen any prices for upgrades. How much will 3.1 -> 3.11 upgrades be >if you've already used your 1 free upgrade (from 3.0 to 3.1)? If you buy any of the additional NLM sets (NetWare NFS, NetWare for Mac 3.0, NetWare FTAM or NetWare Communication Services) the upgrade from 3.1->3.11 is free. If you don't, the price depends upon your existing update/upgrade agreements with your reseller or us. > From what >I understand, buyers of 3.0 who registered were promised the Mac NLM when >it became available. Because the Mac NLM requires 3.11, I've been told that >3.11 will thrown in for free (and you choose how many users you require). And our promises are good. If you bought and registered NetWare 386 v3.0, NetWare for Mac v3.0 will be sent to you automatically and at no charge, complete with a NetWare v3.11 to run it on. NetWare 386 3.1 customers (who never owned 3.0) were never made this promise but if they purchase NetWare for Mac v3.0, they also get their OS upgrade for free. Keith - Keith Brown Phone: (408) 473 8308 Novell San Jose Development Centre Fax: (408) 433 0775 2180 Fortune Dr, San Jose, California 95131 Net: keith@novell.COM
wittmann@erb1.engr.wisc.edu (art wittmann) (02/25/91)
In article <1991Feb23.115926.14506@robobar.co.uk> ronald@robobar.co.uk (Ronald S H Khoo) writes: >keith@ca.excelan.com (Keith Brown) writes: > >> The entry price of NetWare v3.11 is now $3,495 (20 user). > >How do you count users coming in over NFS ? Or is that 20 NetWare users >plus as many NFS ones as I like ? > >-- >Ronald Khoo <ronald@robobar.co.uk> +44 81 991 1142 (O) +44 71 229 7741 (H) Very clever of you!!!! Indeed, you are limited to 20 DOS users but you can have all the NFS users you can throw at the server. If the NFS server turns out to be as great as claimed, buying the 20 user version would be the way to decrease the price as much as possible. Art =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Art Wittmann Phone: (608) 263-1748 Network Manager Email: wittmann@engr.wisc.edu Computer Aided Engineering Center or: wittmann@cae.wisc.edu University of Wisconsin, Madison
rbraun@spdcc.COM (Rich Braun) (02/25/91)
brian@dgsi.UUCP (Brian Kelley) writes: >Would someone at Novell care to explain why this product costs $5000? >That's a lot of money for what is basically a a big TSR (which also happens >to be version 1.00000). The big initial hype of 3.0 was increased >connectivity and TCP/IP support. And to Novell, I offer the following challenge: Please drop your price on this product. NFS is a _public domain_ protocol put out by Sun Microsystems. Sources are available both from me (in the form of SOS) and from uunet.uu.net. SOS has been modified, relatively easily within 2-1/2 weeks of my time, to support many Novell file authentication features. It doesn't offer the level of performance which an NFS TSR running directly on the server offers, but it's my bet that someone can accomplish this for a whole lot less than five grand. So, Novell, whadya say? How about charging the $500 which, say, Santa Cruz Operation is charging? Or even, shudder, the $0 which Sun charges (i.e., throw it in with your TCP/IP product)? -rich
keith@ca.excelan.com (Keith Brown) (03/06/91)
The News Manager) Nntp-Posting-Host: ca Reply-To: keith@ca.excelan.com (Keith Brown) Organization: Novell, Inc. San Jose, California References: <1991Feb21.234900.11916@novell.com> <1991Feb23.115926.14506@robobar.co.uk> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 1991 17:27:25 GMT In article <1991Feb23.115926.14506@robobar.co.uk> ronald@robobar.co.uk (Ronald S H Khoo) writes: >keith@ca.excelan.com (Keith Brown) writes: > >> The entry price of NetWare v3.11 is now $3,495 (20 user). > >How do you count users coming in over NFS ? Or is that 20 NetWare users >plus as many NFS ones as I like ? > Precisely. NetWare NFS can run on any of the three versions of NetWare v3.11 (20, 100 or 250 user) with no arbitrary limitations on number of NFS users or number of NFS clients. As far as NetWare is concerned, NetWare NFS takes up *no* user connection slots. NetWare for Mac does though. For example, if you have a 100 user v3.11 server and a 20 user copy of NetWare for Mac, it means that 20 of the 100 users can be Mac clients (you don't get 120 users out of it!). Keith - Keith Brown Phone: (408) 473 8308 Novell San Jose Development Centre Fax: (408) 433 0775 2180 Fortune Dr, San Jose, California 95131 Net: keith@novell.COM