[comp.research.japan] Kahaner Report: TRON Comments

rick@cs.arizona.edu (Rick Schlichting) (04/09/91)

  [Dr. David Kahaner is a numerical analyst visiting Japan for two-years
   under the auspices of the Office of Naval Research-Asia (ONR/Asia).  
   The following is the professional opinion of David Kahaner and in no 
   way has the blessing of the US Government or any agency of it.  All 
   information is dated and of limited life time.  This disclaimer should 
   be noted on ANY attribution.]

  [Copies of previous reports written by Kahaner can be obtained from
   host cs.arizona.edu using anonymous FTP.]

To: Distribution
From: David K. Kahaner ONR Asia [kahaner@xroads.cc.u-tokyo.ac.jp]
Re: TRON (The Real Time Operating System Nucleus) Comments
7 April 1991

ABSTRACT. Comments from readers about 4 March TRON report.

After my TRON report was distributed (4 March 1991), several readers sent 
comments and amplifications to what I wrote.  The two most substantial 
were from Prof. J.D. Mooney (West Virginia Univ), who was cited for his 
participation in the last TRON Symposium, and Prof J. Hootman (Univ North 
Dakota) who was Editor-In-Chief of IEEE Micro at the time that the TRON 
articles were published in that Journal (1987).  Their comments are 
quoted below.  Mooney has also agreed to collect further comments for 
distribution. Please send any additional remarks to him.  

Hootman:
" It strikes me as if the TRON concept is an ideal one for AI, Neural 
Nets etc. If one is to really model the brain etc it will require a 
multitude of sensors and the interaction of many different types of 
systems--an ideal type of situation for the TRON. I am really surprised 
that no group has started to look at that. It would be interesting to 
study this and just see what kind of information was generated.  

  In order to really convey the place and importance of TRON I think that 
it is necessary to make a table and compare TRON with something like UNIX 
or other operating systems and give the good and the bad points of both.  

  I think that we in the U.S. tend to look at ourselves and concentrate 
on the good stuff we do. We don't spend time looking at others to see 
what they are doing. I bet Ken S. looked around and just made the 
considered decision to do something different. The other impressive part 
of Ken's operation is the support that he has from the government and 
industry [only industry as far as I can tell-DKK]. This says that the 
IBMs of the world are going to have to do some serious looking at TRON 
and other operating systems. " 
   Prof Joseph Hootman, Dept of Electrical Engineering
   University of North Dakota
   Tel: (701 777-4428), Fax: (701-777-3650)

Mooney
" I would like to follow up and comment on some of the points made by the 
Kahaner Report on the TRON project.  Dr. Kahaner cited me (with some 
justification) as a "lonely exception" to the lack of participation by 
Western researchers, especially academics, in the TRON project.  He also 
observed that the project is controversial, and the follow-up comments 
certainly illustrated this:  They all suggested that TRON was 
uninteresting and should not be taken seriously, although none of the 
posters had significant first-hand knowledge about the project.  

I will speak as one who does have some first-hand knowledge.  Dr.  
Sakamura first contacted me in 1985 because of my work on the IEEE "MOSI" 
standard (an operating system interface standard for small computer 
systems).  I have participated in discussions about TRON since that time, 
and I have been an active participant in the CTRON subproject of TRON 
since 1988.  For the record, I do receive research funds in connection 
with this project.  I was an invited speaker at two TRON Symposia in 
Tokyo, and a TRON researcher spent a year working with me at West 
Virginia University.  

I am not an apologist for TRON or for the Japanese, but I am often amazed 
by the *uninformed* negative reactions to this project. A discussion 
which I initiated about TRON on USENET two years ago led to a wide range 
of criticisms, many based on inaccurate knowledge (and a few on outright 
anti-Japanese bias).  I later summarized this discussion in the TRON 
special issue of Microprocessors and Microsystems (October 1989).  There 
was no interest in establishing a TRON newsgroup to continue the 
discussion.  

I would like to propose a more balanced view.  The TRON projects are not 
a panacea, but with all respect to Professor Tanenbaum, it is foolish and 
shortsighted to call TRON "dead as a doornail." 

First of all, it is important to remember that the TRON "project" is 
actually a large collection of subprojects motivated by a common vision.  
That vision is one of open, global networking, supporting everything from 
worldwide communication to local networks of "intelligent objects" in the 
home.  It is fair to be skeptical or opposed to parts of this vision; 
Americans, especially, do not want to live in an environment where 
computers seem to have the upper hand.  The total TRON vision may never 
come to pass, or may be far in the future.  But the TRON subprojects do 
not depend on the vision, and are not waiting for it.  Some of them are 
already technically complete, and are quietly finding their way into 
commercial products.  

The TRON goals depend fundamentally on open participation.  TRON 
subprojects are aimed at developing *standards*, not products.  Many 
commercial interests are participating, and each standard is intended to 
enable products of many vendors, although reasonably differentiated, to 
work together.  Western companies with no present involvement in TRON may 
find advantage in offering products compatible with these standards.  

TRON is, of course, of Japanese origin; in the U.S. view it will forever 
be "not-invented-here."  There are obvious cultural and language barriers 
to foreign participation.  But participants from any country have always 
been welcome, and specifications for the TRON subprojects, although still 
under development, are being openly published. A few TRON presentations 
and workshops have been held outside Japan, and the TRON Association is 
willing to help organize such events wherever there is sufficient 
interest. The text of Dr. Kahaner's report suggests that only a handful 
of Western companies have joined the TRON Association, but a detailed 
scan of the list he provides shows a lot of familiar names [thanks for 
the correction--DKK].  These companies may not all be actively 
participating in development, but they will not ignore potentially 
significant markets.  

The TRON standards are not developed in a vaccuum.  They do not conflict 
with existing international standards, and they interface to these 
standards where appropriate (e.g. the OSI model, the Ada Language).  TRON 
representatives participate in international standards activities, and 
the various TRON specifications are likely to be proposed for ISO/IEC 
JTC-1 standardization when completed.  

TRON is funded purely by an industrial consortium; it receives no 
government support (is there a surer recipe for success? :-).  TRON is 
also not a trade barrier; nothing in its nature suggests that it could be 
anything but a trade facilitator.  In May 1989 the U.S. government 
*proposed* TRON for possible inclusion on a list of sanctioned products.  
There was a clear misunderstanding of the nature of the TRON project.  
Part of the concern centered on the rumor that MITI would mandate use of 
TRON-based products in schools, creating a supposed obstacle to U.S.  
suppliers.  This did not happen, although the U.S. government certainly 
mandates widespread use of many American standards.  This 
misunderstanding was soon resolved, and TRON was never listed, but the 
bad press continues.  

The TRON project was conceived from the start to include five principal 
subprojects.  It is not correct to say that the project has "branched" 
due to growth.  It is also misleading to confuse the name TRON with a 
particular subproject, or to form opinions or draw conclusions about the 
TRON Project as a whole based on views about only one subproject.  

Four of these subprojects have been well developed to date: ITRON, BTRON, 
CTRON, and the TRON CPU (or CHIP).  Each of these has already led to both 
detailed specifications and products.  ITRON, BTRON, and CTRON are each 
families of operating system interface specifications.  The TRON CPU is a 
family of microprocessor architecture specifications.  The fifth 
subproject, MTRON (for Macro TRON), is aimed at developing an intelligent 
distributed control for a complete network.  It is in a much earlier 
stage of development.  

These specifications were designed to work together; the TRON CPU is 
envisioned as the usual processor for ITRON-based embedded systems and 
for BTRON-based workstations.  However, they surely do not depend on one 
another.  In practice, most ITRON and BTRON products to date have used 
other processors (Intel, Motorola, etc.) while TRON CPU systems often run 
other types of OSs, including UNIX.  

The TRON CPU has received the most criticism.  I will not try to defend 
this architecture, but even if it is not admired it will soon be found in 
many Japanese products.  Moreover, the OS specifications are being used 
without the CPU.  ITRON is the basis for embedded systems in applications 
such as robotics, mobile communication, and consumer products -- not to 
mention the TRON house, which does exist and apparently works.  BTRON 
workstations to date have been specialized for Japanese input, which may 
limit their usefulness in the West.  However, I have seen (in 1988) BTRON 
systems that include effective multilingual processing, high-level data 
management, multimedia output and *input*, and (a special concern of Dr. 
Sakamura's) integrated support for disabled users.  This could be 
effective competition for some existing workstations.  

CTRON is in a special class, designed for larger environments and 
optimized especially for communications and information processing 
applications.  It is likely to find application in telephone and 
communication systems, in Japan and elsewhere.  

The TRON projects are not only feasible; they are developed and maturing.  
Annual international conferences have been held since 1987, with 
presentations in both Japanese and English and simultaneous translation.  
Papers in the first conference focused on TRON concepts and development 
of the specifications.  In 1988 and 1989 increasing numbers of 
implementation reports were presented.  The 1990 conference was concerned 
with topics such as performance, reliability, and validation.  The CTRON 
committee has begun a series of formal portability experiments involving 
CTRON products of a number of companies, to validate the ease of porting 
software in CTRON environments.  This project was launched with a 
symposium on Software Portability in September 1990.  My paper in the 
1990 TRON Symposium Proceedings, to which the Kahaner Report refers, 
emphasizes portability because it was originally presented at the 
portability symposium.  A slightly revised version was then reprinted in 
the later proceedings.  

In summary, I strongly agree with the conclusion drawn by Dr. Kahaner in 
his very objective report, that TRON is indeed a force to be reckoned 
with.  You may like or hate the project, but each TRON specification 
deserves to be evaluated on its own technical merits.  Many companies are 
doing this, and some are adopting TRON elements.  Like it or not, these 
elements are already appearing in Japanese products and systems, and 
understanding them will be important for international commerce.  

Following these comments I am posting a copy of my TRON information
summary, which I try to keep reasonably up to date.  This document
includes brief technical project summaries, an English bibliography, and
relevant names and addresses.  I will be glad to assist anyone
interested in contacting the TRON Association or obtaining more
information about any aspect of the TRON Project."
Prof James Mooney                       Dept. of Stat. & Computer Science
Tel: (304) 293-3607                     West Virginia University
                                        Morgantown, WV 26506
INTERNET: jdm@a.cs.wvu.wvnet.edu
[End of Mooney's comments]

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