[comp.graphics.visualization] apE vs. AVS

mosko@leconte.math.ucla.edu (Bradley Moskowitz) (02/06/91)

It seems to me at first glance that AVS from Stardent is very similar to apE
in its approach. Is there any connection between them, e.g. one based on the
other in concept, or are they two very different systems ? Thank you for any
comments in this regard.

Brad M.

ktayama@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Katsumi Tayama) (02/07/91)

In article <1044@kaos.MATH.UCLA.EDU> mosko@leconte.math.ucla.edu (Bradley Moskowitz) writes:
>It seems to me at first glance that AVS from Stardent is very similar to apE
>in its approach. Is there any connection between them, e.g. one based on the
>other in concept, or are they two very different systems ? Thank you for any
>comments in this regard.
>


According to:
Dyer, D. Scott
A dataflow toolkit for visualization (apE)
IEEE Computer Graphics and Applications 10: 60-9 Jl '90

the two systems are developed completely independently.
See also:
Upson, Craig  Faulhaber, Thomas  Kamins, David
The Application Visualization System: a computational
environment for scientific visualization
IEEE Computer Graphics and Applications 9: 30-42 Jl '89

Kats
ktayama@ics.uci.edu

wave@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Michael B. Johnson) (02/07/91)

In article <1044@kaos.MATH.UCLA.EDU> mosko@leconte.math.ucla.edu (Bradley Moskowitz) writes:
>>It seems to me at first glance that AVS from Stardent is very similar to apE
>>in its approach. Is there any connection between them, e.g. one based on the
>>other in concept, or are they two very different systems ? Thank you for any
>>comments in this regard.
>>
>>Brad M.


Having reasonably extensive experience with AVS (I've written quite a number
of my own modules over the last year or so) and just a bit of experience with 
apE (just got apE 2.0
a few weeks ago, went through the tutorials on an SGI, listened to a coworker
complain about his lack of success getting it to run on an HP-9000/835, had
little luck compiling it on my Stardent Titan), I would say that AVS comes
across as a much more polished and more responsive system than apE.  As for
connection between the two systems, I don't think there is one.  The notion
of data flow and graphical languages applied to scientific computation has
been around for quite some time in the research community, and both apE and
AVS are several year old, admirable efforts to get it out to a user community.

I like AVS a lot, but am disappointed with several things about it, none of
which (to my knowledge, at least) have been any more successfully addressed
by apE.  Being able to take advantage of locally resident data with shared
memory segments, encapsulation of networks (AVS) or pipelines (apE) to 
promote functional abstraction, or even a "network compiler"...  All of these
need to be provided at some point.  

apE does have the definite advantage that, although it is not in the
public domain, the source code is readily available for a very small fee, it
runs (to a greater or lesser degree) on many different platforms, and the 
folks at the Ohio Supercomputer Center seem to be genuinely behind their 
hh
line is becoming the assumed platform for high-end visualization, it is very 
nice that apE runs on it (while AVS does not - an obvious marketing decision on
Stardent's part for which I can't really fault them).

SGI has dropped hints about a system they will be coming out with which will
run on their systems and will be a "second generation" system (where apE and
AVS are "first generation", I suppose), but so far I at least haven't seen 
it.

Anyway, this is straying, so I'll leave it at that.



-- 

-->  Michael B. Johnson
-->  MIT Media Lab      --  Computer Graphics & Animation Group
-->  (617) 253-0663     --  wave@media-lab.media.mit.edu

rick@hanauma.stanford.edu (Richard Ottolini) (02/08/91)

>In article <1044@kaos.MATH.UCLA.EDU> mosko@leconte.math.ucla.edu (Bradley Moskowitz) writes:
>>It seems to me at first glance that AVS from Stardent is very similar to apE
>>in its approach. Is there any connection between them, e.g. one based on the
>>other in concept, or are they two very different systems ? Thank you for any
>>comments in this regard.

Dataflow toolkits are very common in signal processing-- speech, seismic, etc.
Toolkits are ubiquitis in UNIX ala text processing, databases.
Where convergence might take place is when people add a function they see
done well in some other's toolkit.